And Or With

[Sanook77]

Hi,

I've searched online but still cannot work out what the Thai word for "and" or "with" is. Could someone please help me out with this. An example would be, "Can I have (khor) chicken cashew nuts (gai phat mit mamuang himmaphan) "and/with" some rice (khao) "and/with" some water (nam blau). At the moment I'm just pausing in between things.

Something else I'm baffled with. When I leave a restaurant I use most days I often get what I assume is a "goodbye" or similar pleasantry. I'm not sure how to react to this. Do I say thank you or do I say goodbye, or something else. Yes, at the moment I just smile.

I'm trying to learn as many basics as I can during my short stay here, but I've found most websites will go into great detail about every type of noodle you can order, but fail to actually clarify what "can I have" is for example. Took me days to work that one out.

Phad Thai. Last time I was here I found the version that is wrapped in an omelet. I'm just not sure if it's "phad thai gai hor khai" or " phad thai hor khai gai".

Finally...beef. Is it "ner", "noo-ah", "ner-ah" or something else.

Thanks.

[stateman]

Hi,

I've searched online but still cannot work out what the Thai word for "and" or "with" is. Could someone please help me out with this. An example would be, "Can I have (khor) chicken cashew nuts (gai phat mit mamuang himmaphan) "and/with" some rice (khao) "and/with" some water (nam blau). At the moment I'm just pausing in between things.

Something else I'm baffled with. When I leave a restaurant I use most days I often get what I assume is a "goodbye" or similar pleasantry. I'm not sure how to react to this. Do I say thank you or do I say goodbye, or something else. Yes, at the moment I just smile.

.....

Phad Thai. Last time I was here I found the version that is wrapped in an omelet. I'm just not sure if it's "phad thai gai hor khai" or " phad thai hor khai gai".

Finally...beef. Is it "ner", "noo-ah", "ner-ah" or something else.

Thanks.

"Can I have (khor) chicken cashew nuts (gai phat mit mamuang himmaphan) "and/with" some rice (khao) "and/with" some water (nam blau). "

khor gai phat med mamuang himmaphan. [med, high sound like met ]

(Pause.)

khor khao Lae Nam Plau Duay Na Krub. [give me rice and plain water also.]

Lae และ = and.

Nam Plau = Plau spelled and pronounced with a "P". Overall sound of "plau" rhymes with "blau".

"When I leave a restaurant I use most days I often get what I assume is a "goodbye" or similar pleasantry. I'm not sure how to react to this. Do I say thank you or do I say goodbye, or something else. Yes, at the moment I just smile. "

I simply say "Sawaddee Krub".

[meadish_sweetball]

As for beef, the vowel sound does not exist in English so it is pointless trying to write it in a forum - you need to listen to what the Thais are saying.

We can give you the right positions for your articulators (tongue and lips) in the mouth.

The vowel sound in เนื้อ is a diphthong (two part vowel sound, or 'glide' from one vowel sound to another). It is the first part of the sound that you need to work on.

We can use the 'oo' vowel sound from 'noodles' as a starting point - say 'noooooooooooooooo-dles' and notice where your tongue is located during the oooooooooo sound.

Now, the main difference between the Thai vowel and the English 'oo' is that to produce the Thai vowel, you need to smile - spread your lips wide in a smile!

So let your tongue stay in the same position as for ooooooooo, but instead of pouting your lips as you do for ooooooo, your lips should smile. If you do it right, you should now notice you have produced a sound that does not exist in your own language. That's where the first part of the Thai vowel sound is.

The next part of the diphthong is a short nondescript 'ah'-like sound.

And finally, to get the entire word right, it has to take the high tone in Thai, which in reality means a pitch curve that starts quite high in your vocal range, and then goes a little bit higher. But just a little bit.

You will probably be understood, if you have a constant pitch high tone as well, but it is not quite what Thai people do if you listen closely.

ner-ah

This is how most English speakers seem to pronounce it, and for that reason it might be understood, but it really is not the right sound.

[Tod Daniels]

I too have been struggling with vowel sounds that do not exist in the english language. They are the most difficult for me to remember and to repeat with any degree of regular consistency. I find myself stumbling over them time and again when speaking. I finally had a thai friend write down many of the difficult (for me) yet commonly used vowel sound words, and we review it several times a week.

I cannot post superscript letters so capital letters after the - denote tone in my transliteration, sorry.

I have found that between the words 'and' and 'with', I use กับ (gap-L) or 'with' far more than I use the word และ (lae-H) which is 'and'.

As far as thai foods like the omelet you mentioned. I have heard the thai word which in cooking means; inside of, filled with, or stuffed as in; ไข่สอดไส้ (khai-L saawt-L sai-F) สอด (saawt-L) meaning to insert or enclose although sometimes I have heard ยัด (yat-H) used insted of สอด (saawt-L) but always with food they have ไส้ (sai-F) meaning in this cooking context 'stuffed'.

I am about as far from a linguist as one can be, but have been trying to pay more attention to how thais use their words in food related contexts as it is quite interesting and descriptive.

On the word ไส้ (sai-F) I also use it when I say "I want the receipt IN the bag" rather than put under my change as thais do with you make a purchase;

เอา ใบเสร็จ ไส้ ถุง

ao-M bai-M set-L sai-F thoong-R

In this case I don't use an ending polite particle or 'softener' in the statement, as it is a firm request and compliance is not optional.

Good luck you're well on your way.

(edited for a pesky spelling mistake)

Edited December 20, 2007 by tod-daniels

[tgeezer]

I too have been struggling with vowel sounds that do not exist in the english language. They are the most difficult for me to remember and to repeat with any degree of regular consistency. I find myself stumbling over them time and again when speaking. I finally had a thai friend write down many of the difficult (for me) yet commonly used vowel sound words, and we review it several times a week.

I cannot post superscript letters so capital letters after the - denote tone in my transliteration, sorry.

I have found that between the words 'and' and 'with', I use กับ (gap-L) or 'with' far more than I use the word และ (lae-H) which is 'and'.

As far as thai foods like the omelet you mentioned. I have heard the thai word which in cooking means; inside of, filled with, or stuffed as in; ไข่สอดไส้ (khai-L saawt-L sai-F) สอด (saawt-L) meaning to insert or enclose although sometimes I have heard ยัด (yat-H) used insted of สอด (saawt-L) but always with food they have ไส้ (sai-F) meaning in this cooking context 'stuffed'.

I am about as far from a linguist as one can be, but have been trying to pay more attention to how thais use their words in food related contexts as it is quite interesting and descriptive.

On the word ไส้ (sai-F) I also use it when I say "I want the receipt IN the bag" rather than put under my change as thais do with you make a purchase;

เอา ใบเสร็จ ไส้ ถุง

ao-M bai-M set-L sai-F thoong-R

In this case I don't use an ending polite particle or 'softener' in the statement, as it is a firm request and compliance is not optional.

Good luck you're well on your way.

(edited for a pesky spelling mistake)

No criticism in any way because it doesn't matter much if you are getting what you want, but, the verb is สอด means to put in a gap or between, so 'stuff' I suppose. ไส้ is the noun, not quite sure what it is ขนมใส่ไส้ is the definition of สอดไส้ ใส่ is the verb 'put-in'

Edited December 20, 2007 by tgeezer

[rgs2001uk]

Hi,

I've searched online but still cannot work out what the Thai word for "and" or "with" is. Could someone please help me out with this. An example would be, "Can I have (khor) chicken cashew nuts (gai phat mit mamuang himmaphan) "and/with" some rice (khao) "and/with" some water (nam blau). At the moment I'm just pausing in between things.

Something else I'm baffled with. When I leave a restaurant I use most days I often get what I assume is a "goodbye" or similar pleasantry. I'm not sure how to react to this. Do I say thank you or do I say goodbye, or something else. Yes, at the moment I just smile.

I'm trying to learn as many basics as I can during my short stay here, but I've found most websites will go into great detail about every type of noodle you can order, but fail to actually clarify what "can I have" is for example. Took me days to work that one out.

Phad Thai. Last time I was here I found the version that is wrapped in an omelet. I'm just not sure if it's "phad thai gai hor khai" or " phad thai hor khai gai".

Finally...beef. Is it "ner", "noo-ah", "ner-ah" or something else.

Thanks.

sanook, for what its worth, you are basically on the right path, can i have, kor xxxxx noy,

you have a couple of choices as to how to say it, eg kor pat thai, pause nam plaw duay krap.

gap, sometimes shortened to ga, is in my opinion used more often than lat, although that may just reflect where i frequent.

if you use the place frequently and have built up a relationship with the staff, as i leave i usually just smile and say ahaan aroy.

i wont elaborate on meadishs reply, there is nothing more i could add, however i think the closest you will get to saying beef and being understood would be neua, or noo-ah as you illustrated. as meadish stated unless you can read the language and understand vowel lengths, pronounciation and tones its about as close as you will get

[Richard W]

I cannot post superscript letters so capital letters after the - denote tone in my transliteration, sorry.

I have found that between the words 'and' and 'with', I use กับ (gap-L) or 'with' far more than I use the word และ (lae-H) which is 'and'.

Just a technical note.

• You can post superscript letters - it's on the a drop-down menu just after bold, italic and underline, thus gap^L
  
• When we thought we could achieve a standard on this forum, it was to write the tone marks in square brackets before, thus [L]gap. The square brackets should always contain exactly one tone indicator - M, L, F, H or R, and may also contain a vowel length indicator - L or S. ('L' is not ambiguous, given these rules.)
  

[luckywinth]

Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum and found it fun. By the way, i am Thai and reading your discussion about the language gives me another view on the language itself. So here is my opinion regarding to the topic.

For "and" and "with"

"With" is usually used to link two foods that you have "together". For example, I have rice "with" green curry. (ผมกินข้าวกับแกงเขียวหวาน). In this case you eat put curry on top of rice and eat them together. On the other hand, you use "and" when you "dont" actually eat the two things "together". For example, "tonight, I had rice with curry and a cheese cake for dessert (ผมกินข้าวกับแกง และชีสเค้กเป็นของหวาน)". In this case, obviously, you finish your main dish, rice and curry, and then you have the cake "afterwards".

Regarding to "ไส้"

litterally, this word means the intestine which is an organ "inside" of human bodies. As a result, the word is used to refer to things that are wrapped up by something else. In the food context, this word is used for stuffing.

To Tod-daniels,

On the word ไส้ (sai-F) I also use it when I say "I want the receipt IN the bag" rather than put under my change as thais do with you make a purchase;

เอา ใบเสร็จ ไส้ ถุง

ao-M bai-M set-L sai-F thoong-R

The example you used above was not correct. In your example, the verb is "ใส่" which means "put in". it has different tone from "ไส้". I noticed that you have the uppercase in the pronunciation to represent the tone. Unfortunately, I dont know about this system. Could you explain it to me please?

Hope my opinion is useful for you.

[mangkorn]

Khun Luckywinth: Welcome! We do need as many native Thais helping us out here as we can be lucky to have. There are already some very helpful and generous Thai contributors to the forum, but the more the merrier. Please visit - and correct, and illuminate us - often.

The L, M, H, R, F tone indicators are the way that farangs understand Thai tones: low, middle, high, rising, falling. (Thais have their own methods to characterize the tones, but this is the easiest way for those who come from non-tonal languages to get the "music of Thai language.") Similar to the method to categorize the three classes of Thai consonants: middle, high and low. I don't think those correspond to the Thai way of identifying them; to me, they seem arbitrary, and even confusing: because you can't get a high-tone from a high-class consonant, nor a low-tone from a low-class consonant, but it is a system designed long ago, and is the universal one used to teach English-speakers.

In the example you cited, the poster used the incorrect tone mark, in both Thai and in English systems, giving a falling tone (and the word for "intestines") instead of a low tone (for the verb "to put in").

Cheers.

(EDIT: There probably is some logic to the "middle-high-low" classes - to learned linguists, and Richard W or someone else may come along to explain. But speaking as an autodidact, they seemed esoteric and initially confusing to me.)

Edited December 24, 2007 by mangkorn