Prosecutors Vow To Arrest Thaksin Upon His Return To Thailand

[Lockstock]

I am stunned at the arogance of some posters on this site. A country has voted, the result is declared, and yet you still continue to wine.

Months ago, some of the very same posters I am sure, were complaining about the lack of democracy in the country when the military flexed their muscles. Now it has played its course, you are still not happy....and to blaim a result on the 'uneducated rural people' is just pure ignorance. To have a result that took into account just the views of the 'haves' in the city whilst ignoring the 'have nots' in the country, now that would be a sad day.

Just as a reminder, this is how it works........people vote, the votes are counted and then there is a winner......Live With It?

[NanLaew]

There are two major groups of people in Thailand, the rural poor and the residents of Bangkok. The rural poor do not, in many cases, have access to, interest in or capacity to understand the facts about a political party or its leader - "facts" as far as this group is concerned is what the most senior or most respected resident heard or knows, often it's simply a case of believing what everyone else believes. Bangkok residents on the other hand are more likely to work with or for more informed sources of information and represent a more aware group. It therefore comes as no surprise that, as always in Thai political history, Issan voters win the day and that the PPP will now form the next government. Posters should not be so surprised.

Balderdash! Rural folks are for the most part literate, read the newspapers and watch the TV news. They do discuss politics and sure, they tend to pay more heed to the more educated elders in the village (often the current and former headmen and kamnaans and now the tambon development folks) and their opinions on matters. And in fact those in Bangkok and the other cities may not be as involved in such discussions not having casual access to such debates in their urban ghettos and slums. So it is, as you suggest, not surprising that rural voters, being the majority win the day, but it is not because they do not have the capacity to understand the issues.

I agree. It has buggerall to do with the city dwellers being more 'aware' than the people in the boonies. I consider that those in the cities perceive that their snouts are a lot closer to the trough. The thought of having to share that trough with the already enlightened and increasingly more active country dweller is making them as nervous as the Bangkok 'elites' they all aspire to be.

[pointofview]

Maybe the offer was not for 1 billion Baht - but the buying of votes certainly seems to be a trait of the PPP - as the EC is finding out.

I am still stunned that the ordinary and quite poor people of Thailand supported the PPP, it is just beyond belief after Thaksin is almost certainly guilty of robbing these people of Thailand's inheritance of billions of Baht and ensuring their future will take many many more years before they can escape the poverty trap whilst Thaksin and his cronies just get richer and richer. Thaksin is a clever and dangerous man as he knows how to dangle irresistible carrots in front of the poor and usually badly educated Thai folk, they then take the carrot with hopeful misguided eyes and he cunningly continues to line his own pocket at the expense of Thailand's real people.

How can it be right in a country of such abject poverty that a few like Thaksin and his cronies can be so rich, and that they carry on ensuring that the poor people of Thailand remain poor, is it maybe for continued cheap labour? This is to me immoral. Sorry but I totally despair now of the future here until the electorate see some sense and start their own REAL peoples' party, much like in the UK 100 years ago when the poor working class majority had little say in politics until they formed their own political party and even then it was still problems until the 1990's when finally it became a realistic political movement of the people and showed how it can make a country prosper for an extended period. I was hoping that the world of extreme right and left politics were almost over and we could move to the consensus and truly productive centre ground, but this election has shown the extreme right can and do still deceive the masses even today.

Still this is not my country but I am a law abiding guest here who loves the place so although I can make my views known, as Thailand does support free speech in principal, there is nothing else of course we can or should do but be good guests and enjoy life here and keep our heads down. I must say though Malaysia is looking more promising for the future, I hope I am wrong but time will tell.

It just might be that the masses are not as deceived as you think- just maybe they realize that the poverty you refer to is caused by a society that still is essentially feudal- and that that feudal arrangement depends upon the army for its existance. The Dems were perceived- (and not just by Thai farmers) as being too unwilling to confront the army- pretty much leaving only the PPP and the Chart Thai.

All the fancy trickle down rhetoric will still leave the poor as a permanant underclass- subject to rampant exploitation by the capitalists. You might not agree with that view- but this bar girl I knew in Pattaya- she agreed. And so did the great Economist, John Kenneth Galbraith- though he wasn't referring to Thailand specifically- he chacterized the notion as such: "if you feed enough oats to the horse, some will pass through to feed the sparrows".

Maybe the sparrows are getting a bit tired of eating horse dung.

Yes this is what the tunnel vision hatred of Taksin brings, foreign personal opinions that have nothing to do with rural voters, all they can offer is insults to their intelligence that they voted to the only group who have ever done anyting for them. 15 years ago my wife told me of vote buying, guess what, it isn't new.

Maybe you have a short memory - it was toxin that initiated most of the anti ferang policies. Not tunnel vision my friend. Remind yourself of his party name THAI LOVE THAI - NOT FERANG

[rainman]

My wife is from a Hilltribe village in the North and she just talked to family up there and was unhappy to hear that everyone in her village accepted 200b per person to vote for PPP. And people they know in the city accepted 500b per person. (Not to mention they also accepted bribes for TRT years ago).

No offense, but if they bought a few votes here and there, so what? I'm sure the Democrats bought a few votes here and there too, so it evens out in the end. 200B per person in the village, 500B per person in the city, come on. Let's take a low average of 300B per person. The PPP got around 26,200,000 votes. That would mean they paid 7,860,000,000 Baht for votes. That's 7 Billion baht, or 231 million USD. Thaksin would pay that much for a football club, but not for votes.

Of course, you're saying they bought SOME votes, not all of them. Every party buys votes in one way or another. In the end it won't affect anything and it evens out.

[rainman]

Maybe you have a short memory - it was toxin that initiated most of the anti ferang policies. Not tunnel vision my friend. Remind yourself of his party name THAI LOVE THAI - NOT FERANG

Last time I checked, my visa conditions and those of my relatives were easier when Thaksin was in control and more difficult when the new government came. If they wanted it any different, they could have easily changed it for the better, not for the worse. And if I'm in the UK or France (just some example), I'd rather call my party "Brits love Brits" or "French love French" than "Brits love Italians" or "French love Germans" too (nothing against Italians or Germans, just an example ).

[rainman]

Months ago, some of the very same posters I am sure, were complaining about the lack of democracy in the country when the military flexed their muscles. Now it has played its course, you are still not happy....and to blaim a result on the 'uneducated rural people' is just pure ignorance. To have a result that took into account just the views of the 'haves' in the city whilst ignoring the 'have nots' in the country, now that would be a sad day.

I fully agree with you. Well said!

Just as a reminder, this is how it works........people vote, the votes are counted and then there is a winner......Live With It?

"Live with it ...or make a coup!"

Couldn't resist.

[pointofview]

Maybe you have a short memory - it was toxin that initiated most of the anti ferang policies. Not tunnel vision my friend. Remind yourself of his party name THAI LOVE THAI - NOT FERANG

Last time I checked, my visa conditions and those of my relatives were easier when Thaksin was in control and more difficult when the new government came. If they wanted it any different, they could have easily changed it for the better, not for the worse. And if I'm in the UK or France (just some example), I'd rather call my party "Brits love Brits" or "French love French" than "Brits love Italians" or "French love Germans" too (nothing against Italians or Germans, just an example ).

Initiated - set the ball rolling - laid down the plan etc etc. (Thaksin)

Yes it was easier but remember he was a nationalist with populace policies and he was activley promoting nationalism - if only for his own gain!

And you know full well that a racist name would never be tolerated - ifnact illegal in the marxist west!

[AlexLah]

Live could be so much better for ALL Thai people, if all would say no to bribes and other corruption, just refuse to play that game.

This is not only for Thailand it is for the whole world.

As long as we (The people) strongly reject to those practices we have a chance to live in a better world.

And please do not reply with something like: "This is Thai culture and how long have you been living here"

we all have dreams but my reply is: "Alex stop dreaming, wake up and face reality."

Dr. Naam, you just stay in your seat do your litlle stock trading and watch things happening. I guess you are living in a dream yourself.

[gharknes]

without going through all the posts on this thread, shouldn't someone let these people know that Toxin robbed the thai people, don't they realise he has billions and yes he gave a few handouts of a few 100baht,what a crazy situation, can you imagine the UK with poverty throughout and Tony Blare heading off with Billions of pounds and able to take it out of the country, they may have got rid of toxin but his fllowers equally corrupt are back, why don't the powers that be let the people here know what is going on - in plain understanable lingo, they are being Fleeced

[YoungAndRice]

In the unlikely event that Thaksin is arrested, he will surely never come to trial - far too many people in the old and potentially in the new administrations wioudl be complicit in the corruption. Nobody in power is going to allow any attorney general to put their heads in the noose along with Thaksin.

This falsely assumes they will do everything by the books and not just look the other way in terms of who gets strung up!

[rainman]

Initiated - set the ball rolling - laid down the plan etc etc. (Thaksin)

Yes it was easier but remember he was a nationalist with populace policies and he was activley promoting nationalism - if only for his own gain!

And you know full well that a racist name would never be tolerated - ifnact illegal in the marxist west!

What's wrong with the name "Thais love Thais"? Should he try to win votes with "Thais hate Thais"? Surely not. It may be a nationalist name, but what's wrong with that? Its obvious democracy doesn't work in Thailand, not because the people don't want it, but because none of the politicians delivers it. Even the "Democrat Party" can't even start by accepting they lost the elections, how can they guarantee democracy if they can't even accept free election results? If anything, they're more of a dictatorship.

Calling Thaksin a nationalist is like calling Hitler a Jew. It doesn't fit. Thaksin is a tycoon, not a nationalist. If he was a nationalist he would have never sold Shin Corp to Singapore.

Check the Visa forum over the past year and everyone complaining about idiotic new Visa rules for foreigners. Those weren't implemented by Thaksin, but by the military government, the allies of the so called "Democrats". Isn't making life more difficult for us foreigners more nationalist? And if it was Thaksin's plan to make the Visa regulations more difficult, as some of you have suggested, and the new government just executed those plans, why didn't they change them? Apparently they're just as or even more nationalist than Thaksin.

It seems to me that some of you cheering for democracy in Thailand are screaming in the wrong direction. The "Democrats" or the military government sure have no plans for it.

In the end, we can debate all we want. It won't change a thing. We should just sit back and enjoy the show and hope we don't get hit by the stray bullets.

[rainman]

without going through all the posts on this thread, shouldn't someone let these people know that Toxin robbed the thai people, don't they realise he has billions and yes he gave a few handouts of a few 100baht,what a crazy situation, can you imagine the UK with poverty throughout and Tony Blare heading off with Billions of pounds and able to take it out of the country, they may have got rid of toxin but his fllowers equally corrupt are back, why don't the powers that be let the people here know what is going on - in plain understanable lingo, they are being Fleeced

Not every billionaire is a robber. Not saying Thaksin hasn't taken some money here and there, but if someone has a billion dollars, my hat off to him, he worked hard for his money (unless she/he inherited like Paris Hilton). We may as well attack Bill Gates or the Sultan of Brunei for not giving away all their billions to poor people.

[pointofview]

Initiated - set the ball rolling - laid down the plan etc etc. (Thaksin)

Yes it was easier but remember he was a nationalist with populace policies and he was activley promoting nationalism - if only for his own gain!

And you know full well that a racist name would never be tolerated - ifnact illegal in the marxist west!

What's wrong with the name "Thais love Thais"? Should he try to win votes with "Thais hate Thais"? Surely not. It may be a nationalist name, but what's wrong with that? Its obvious democracy doesn't work in Thailand, not because the people don't want it, but because none of the politicians delivers it. Even the "Democrat Party" can't even start by accepting they lost the elections, how can they guarantee democracy if they can't even accept free election results? If anything, they're more of a dictatorship.

Calling Thaksin a nationalist is like calling Hitler a Jew. It doesn't fit. Thaksin is a tycoon, not a nationalist. If he was a nationalist he would have never sold Shin Corp to Singapore.

Check the Visa forum over the past year and everyone complaining about idiotic new Visa rules for foreigners. Those weren't implemented by Thaksin, but by the military government, the allies of the so called "Democrats". Isn't making life more difficult for us foreigners more nationalist? And if it was Thaksin's plan to make the Visa regulations more difficult, as some of you have suggested, and the new government just executed those plans, why didn't they change them? Apparently they're just as or even more nationalist than Thaksin.

It seems to me that some of you cheering for democracy in Thailand are screaming in the wrong direction. The "Democrats" or the military government sure have no plans for it.

In the end, we can debate all we want. It won't change a thing. We should just sit back and enjoy the show and hope we don't get hit by the stray bullets.

Yes the real Rainman would be proud of your views

[rainman]

Here's something for the people who keep bringing up the vote buying by the PPP party:

Calling on the polling agency to perform in a just and indiscriminate fashion, Mr Chusak urged the Election Commission to investigate and consider presenting a yellow card to a winning Democrat Party candidate contesting in Petchabun province amid allegations that he had been involved in vote-buying.

Source: http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=124729

As I said, both sides buy votes and in the end it evens out.

[pointofview]

Here's something for the people who keep bringing up the vote buying by the PPP party:

Calling on the polling agency to perform in a just and indiscriminate fashion, Mr Chusak urged the Election Commission to investigate and consider presenting a yellow card to a winning Democrat Party candidate contesting in Petchabun province amid allegations that he had been involved in vote-buying.

Source: http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=124729

As I said, both sides buy votes and in the end it evens out.

I think you may find that the one with the most money buys the most votes - no!

[sriracha john]

The Supreme Court issued arrest warrants for Thaksin and Pojaman in August over separate graft charges linked to a real estate deal in 2003.

In September a Thai criminal court issued another arrest warrant against the former first couple over charges tied to alleged fraudulent filings to the Securities and Exchange Commission in 2003.

What I've seen over the past year is the military government trying to bring charges against Thaksin and they've been unable to in every way. So far he hasn't been charged with anything, though they keep talking about arresting him.

Bold and increased font size added above as apparently you missed reading that the first time around it was posted...

[sriracha john]

I doubt the elections were real. if there can be fixed elections in USA then there can be in Thailand.

You didn't like the result so the election was fixed, and you are offerring what evidence?

3 to 4 million Democrat votes were military men and their families who were ordered, I mean instructed, to vote for the military coup Democrat Party. I'm not sure anyone cares if a few votes were bought for chump change by the PPP.

Yes, but that is a different and honorable form of stacking an election.

You should hold the second post to the same scrutiny and criteria that you applied to the first post.

[sriracha john]

In the end, we can debate all we want. It won't change a thing. We should just sit back and enjoy the show and hope we don't get hit by the stray bullets.

That will be a legitimate concern when the new Interior Minister Chalerm begins his avowed Killing Fields War on Drugs, ver. 3.0

What's going to be the innocent death toll goal this time around? 3,000? 5,000?

Edited December 27, 2007 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

Check the Visa forum over the past year and everyone complaining about idiotic new Visa rules for foreigners. Those weren't implemented by Thaksin, but by the military government

Looking at the OP of the biggest, most viewed thread on the visa issue turns up an interesting date.... Sept. 10

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=82672&st=

Thailand tightens visa rules

The date of the coup was Sept. 19.

Is there any other simple research you need help with?

[Jingthing]

Assuming, Samak will be PM, and Thaksin comes back to Thailand in February, given that Samak is the proclaimed nominee of Thaksin, how can Thaksin be arrested at the airport (would he be?) and how can Thaksin get convicted (assuming there is evidence to do so which I assume there is) in this scenario? Something does not add up here.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Jingthing

[sriracha john]

without going through all the posts on this thread, shouldn't someone let these people know that Toxin robbed the thai people, don't they realise he has billions and yes he gave a few handouts of a few 100baht,what a crazy situation, can you imagine the UK with poverty throughout and Tony Blare heading off with Billions of pounds and able to take it out of the country, they may have got rid of toxin but his followers equally corrupt are back, why don't the powers that be let the people here know what is going on - in plain understandable lingo, they are being Fleeced

Not every billionaire is a robber. Not saying Thaksin hasn't taken some money here and there, but if someone has a billion dollars, my hat off to him, he worked hard for his money (unless she/he inherited like Paris Hilton). We may as well attack Bill Gates or the Sultan of Brunei for not giving away all their billions to poor people.

Sorry, but just a couple more discrepancy corrections...

that's a heck of a lot of "here and there"... although I'll grant you he did "work hard" to steal that much from Thais..

The Thaksin administration caused more than 180 Billion Baht in damage to the country

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...t&p=1716255

strange you chose to mention the biggest charitable contributer in the world...

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is the largest charitable foundation in the world, founded by Bill and Melinda Gates in 2000. It has an endowment of US$37.6 billion as of July 11, 2007.

- wiki

[Choscura]

Thaksin deserves to get his come-uppance.

Conman, fraudster and his cohorts need to be prosecuted because Thailand is the laughing stock place of the western world.

Go get him.

corrections in bold.

[adjan jb]

Samak Sundaravej would become prime minister, while Chalerm Yoobamrung would take the Interior post

Som Nam Na.

With Samak and Chalerm (remember his sons ?), Thai people will get the government they deserve.

[Pierrot]

One fact I don't really get : Thaksin robbed Thailand.

The only money Thaksin MAY have illegally earned was bribery money that was not intended to the Thai people anyway but to rotten business people who form the base of "democrat" voters.

In my opinion, people who voted for the PPP are perfectly justified to see Mr T as a modern day Robin Hood who stole from the robber barons to give to the poors.

PS : I'm a new comer, how do you add these cool pictures that appear below the people name ?

[John K]

Check the Visa forum over the past year and everyone complaining about idiotic new Visa rules for foreigners. Those weren't implemented by Thaksin, but by the military government

Looking at the OP of the biggest, most viewed thread on the visa issue turns up an interesting date.... Sept. 10

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=82672&st=

Thailand tightens visa rules

The date of the coup was Sept. 19.

Is there any other simple research you need help with?

It is amazing that comments continue to appear placing blame on the junta when a simple chronological check will show it was the Thaksin government.

The mentioned visa issue is widely believed to be fallout from a certain teacher who falsely confessed to a high profile murder of a young girl in the USA. That from memory was July 2006 or there about being 2+ months before the coup.

The actual implementation was October 1, 2006 with the start of the first 90 day clock.

[HobbsTheFerociousTiger]

I think it's pretty clear why *some* vocal 'Farangs' never liked Thaksin: The bar closing & social order campaign from one of the factions in TRT.

That's it, and only it.

Personally I agree with a lot of those measures, and by God you need only look around in certain areas to realize that a tightening of visa rules was VERY NECESSARY. First of all a lot of them were primarily aimed at curbing the influx of illegal Burmese and Laotians; any Westerner with a legitimate reason to stay in Thailand was completely unaffected.

In fact, ALL the rules that actually hurt legitimate visitors and tourists came about under the Military junta, along with everything else they messed up. For example the need to show a return AIR ticket upon entry to Thailand; that screws tourism as people typically spend time in Thailand, then Laos, Cambodia, etc and finally leave again from Thailand, but more than 30 days after their initial entry.

Again, I think all visa / immigration laws enacted under TRT made total sense.

... Oh wait, yes... ... bar closing.

(BTW, excellent posts by Rainman!!! Happy to see you join the discussion)

[HobbsTheFerociousTiger]

With Samak and Chalerm (remember his sons ?), Thai people will get the government they deserve.

No, they DONT. They get the government that the junta forced upon them. They illegally banned over 100 of the modern, capable TRT leadership, so people are now left with dinosaurs like the two you mention.

That's indeed sad, but don't go blaming The People for the illegitimate acts of a bunch of generals and aristocrats!

[jayjayjayjay]

I am still stunned that the ordinary and quite poor people of Thailand supported the PPP, it is just beyond belief after Thaksin is almost certainly guilty of robbing these people of Thailand's inheritance of billions of Baht and ensuring their future will take many many more years before they can escape the poverty trap whilst Thaksin and his cronies just get richer and richer

I've never have understood why so many people who have lived in LOS for a couple rounds of government, thai style, cannot seem to grasp Thaksins ADMINISTRATION, was no more nor less corrupt than previous governments.

Is it that difficult? Is there a switch that just won't click? A mental block that stops all thought when this is stated? Unlike those governments he actually gave something to poor people. Yes he is corrupt, yes he is venally corrupt we all know this. I guess the point is if the other non Thaksin administrations would have been something less than as bad as Thaksins we could honestly throw brickbats at the people who voted for the PPP.

Obviously we cannot

For the first part I disagree, he sold AIS to a Singaporian company, it was and is not a national asset, if that is the case then DTAC and TRUE are national assets as well........ if they are to be called national assets then Thailand may as well turn "communist", do we all want that? As for a billion baht, if Taksin had sold AIS while the Democrates ran the country like a school canteen during 1997 to 2000, then he would have yielded less. He transferred it to his kids and the question is justifiable raised by the ASC (kangaroo court) that the transaction should have yielded tax.... That still has to be answered in court. Should Taksin never had entered politics, he still would have sold it for $2 billion US and as with everybody else would not have had to pay any tax anyway!!!!!!!!!!! So the question is, if he had his time over again, would have Taksin have gone into politics... I bet the anwser is NO, emphatically no.... Why the pain for little gain. What, a piece of land in Ratchadar, I dont think so.

I agree his gov was corrupt, policy wise is most likely the evil culprit, and if they nail him on it, well and good.

hold on right there! it's suppose to be the whole SHIN corporation that he sold which included the SHIN SAT which is a national asset. now the singaporean can easily eavesdrop into thailands' communication system.

and so where in Thai law did it state that the company holding the satellite lisence could not be sold to a foreign shareholder!!! What was illigal about it!

[jayjayjayjay]

There are two major groups of people in Thailand, the rural poor and the residents of Bangkok. The rural poor do not, in many cases, have access to, interest in or capacity to understand the facts about a political party or its leader - "facts" as far as this group is concerned is what the most senior or most respected resident heard or knows, often it's simply a case of believing what everyone else believes. Bangkok residents on the other hand are more likely to work with or for more informed sources of information and represent a more aware group. It therefore comes as no surprise that, as always in Thai political history, Issan voters win the day and that the PPP will now form the next government. Posters should not be so surprised.

What total rubbish, you're a real smart one comming up with a comment like this, simply boiler plate. Get out into the country and realise these people have brains for themselves. Give real examples to justify your arguement. Tell me way my gf and her families votes are not worth the same as any single Bangkokians. The more I read your post the more I am utterly disgusted with your idiotic post!!!!!!

[OlRedEyes]

With Samak and Chalerm (remember his sons ?), Thai people will get the government they deserve.

No, they DONT. They get the government that the junta forced upon them. They illegally banned over 100 of the modern, capable TRT leadership, so people are now left with dinosaurs like the two you mention.

That's indeed sad, but don't go blaming The People for the illegitimate acts of a bunch of generals and aristocrats!

Freedom, like power, must be taken. It is never given.

The people of any country get the government they deserve.