Proper Trap For Toilet

[Beardog]

Hi I googled wikapedia & ixquicked & got differebt info on what a U trap looks like to be installed in the toilet leading out to the septic tank. Wikapedai called this part a w trap & google called it a U trap Does anyone have a diagram of how it would be installed as it is under cement & I am used to wood construction giving access to the pipe later. after the toilet is set on the flange It would go to the outlet pipe. I assume this is where the trap goes, but I really do not have much experience setting toliets. I have a contractor that is doing the job & just want to make sure it is done right & get him the proper trap to do the job. The last thing I want is unwanted stinky odors crawling back through the pipes as some houses I rented in Pattaya. He has already told me the venting will go over the roof level, so I know this part will be right.

If anyone could enlighten me further I would be so stoked as I have heard many horror stories of contractors not putting in the right stuff & needing to tear crete & tile & reinstall later.

Is this what the trap looks like?

Thanks for the help!!!

Beardog

U_Or_W_Trap_Toilet.doc

Edited December 29, 2007 by Beardog

[Naam]

never heard that an additional u-trap should to be installed between a toilet and sewage respectively septic tank. all toilets i have ever seen have an integrated u-trap. no idea whether this also applies to asian style squat toilets.

[lopburi3]

A U trap is built into the toilet. What most people forget is the trap on floor drains. Most people here use an inverted cone type fixture attached to the chrome cover that can be removed/cleaned from top; a little water has to be in them to work.

[chownah]

I agree with Naam.....the toilet has its own trap built into the base....squat toilets do to.....not need for the additional trap.

If your worker is installing a western style toilet the method they should use to install the base of the toilet onto the flange is to first install the wax seal into the bottom of the toilet...pushing it using the hands all around so the wax has a solid grip on the toilet and seals completely all around...the wax is soft enough that when this is done properly it has fused with the bottom of the toilet and it is impossible to remove...it has sort of bonded to the toilet....then the toilet (with wax already installed) is lowered onto the flange which should already have its bolts in place....then just install the nuts on the bolts and tighten.....that's it.....it really is a very simple and easy operation if you've ever seen it done. The rest of the toilet installation is to just follow the directions to install the tank on the back and its innards.

If you google for installing a toilet you should be able top find a site with step by step instructions with pictures. I'm telling you this because I've seen some Thai workers really screw up a toilet installation and end up sealing the base with mortar all around after ....not so cute.

Chownah

[Maestro]

...trap on floor drains. Most people here use an inverted cone type fixture attached to the chrome cover that can be removed/cleaned from top...

I am looking for something like that, ie a miniature water trap that can be fitted into the floor drain. Where can I buy it?

--

Maestro

[lopburi3]

Home Pro I am sure have them - any hardware or building supply store - even Central Department Store probably have them. Will be an inverted bell shape chrome looking thing. Normally top plate is a screw or bayonet mount that easily removes to allow cleaning. It fits flush with floor but may take a little cold chisel work to make the top of pipe area a bit larger.

[Naam]

I'm telling you this because I've seen some Thai workers really screw up a toilet installation and end up sealing the base with mortar all around after ....not so cute.

Chownah

tell me about it! i nearly had a heart attack and was looking for a steel rod to kill my plumber when i saw what he was doing.

[Naam]

A U trap is built into the toilet. What most people forget is the trap on floor drains. Most people here use an inverted cone type fixture attached to the chrome cover that can be removed/cleaned from top; a little water has to be in them to work.

another "smelly" problem is the joke of "u-trap" used for shower drains. it holds only a tiny amount of water which evaporates in no time. that means stink if the house has several bathrooms and some of them are not used daily. when i saw this joke i had separate small tanks built in which the waste water from washbasins, bidets and shower flows and from there to the main drain without going through or being directly connected to the septic tank in which toilet waste is discharged. would have worked out nicely if the plumber had known what a bidet is used for. he did not know and connected the bidet drain to the adjacent toilet drain it took me weeks to figure out why one of our bathrooms was horribly stinking.

[lopburi3]

I have never seen them use a wax seal/flange (or mounting bolts) for a toilet but they seem to work OK with the cement in approach (if they bother to line the holes up). I even have one (30 year old model) that they managed to remove and re-install after raising floor level.

[Naam]

I have never seen them use a wax seal/flange (or mounting bolts) for a toilet

i found the seals and the mounting bolts in the empty cartons thrown on the trash heap of my construction site

plumber's reaction: "we don't use these things, we have our own special ways to fix toilets".

my answer: "you <deleted> will use these things and i will show you how!"

[Rimmer]

I have never seen them use a wax seal/flange (or mounting bolts) for a toilet

i found the seals and the mounting bolts in the empty cartons thrown on the trash heap of my construction site

plumber's reaction: "we don't use these things, we have our own special ways to fix toilets".

my answer: "you <deleted> will use these things and i will show you how!"

That sounds just like me with my builders. They stand around looking disinterested but when they see how it should be done get quite exited then rush off to tell their friends about the 'new discovery'

[Rimmer]

A U trap is built into the toilet. What most people forget is the trap on floor drains. Most people here use an inverted cone type fixture attached to the chrome cover that can be removed/cleaned from top; a little water has to be in them to work.

another "smelly" problem is the joke of "u-trap" used for shower drains. it holds only a tiny amount of water which evaporates in no time. that means stink if the house has several bathrooms and some of them are not used daily. when i saw this joke i had separate small tanks built in which the waste water from washbasins, bidets and shower flows and from there to the main drain without going through or being directly connected to the septic tank in which toilet waste is discharged. would have worked out nicely if the plumber had known what a bidet is used for. he did not know and connected the bidet drain to the adjacent toilet drain it took me weeks to figure out why one of our bathrooms was horribly stinking.

Yep these things really are a joke, if I remember rightly the SARS epidemic was traced in Hong Kong to cone fittings in a gray water drain that had no water in the trap.

If you can't fit separate tanks like the good doctor, fit U traps AND a check valve on ALL the gray water pipes, if the check valves are not fitted the slug of air and water from a flushing toilet can suck all the water out of the grey water U trap leaving the gray water pipe open to all the smells from the septic tank.

Edited December 29, 2007 by Rimmer

[Beardog]

Thank you for the replies!

My neighbor ( I didn't know) worked as a plumber for 20 years & also a farmer, Explained to me that the S shape built in the toilet is the trap built in the toilet & that the U trap was needed in the drain for the shower to keep the bad odors sealed out. He also showed me where everything should be placed & explained in Thai to my contractor, Which already was planning on doing this anyway(had the 4" U trap in the truck) He also set me up with the way the septic works -placement 30+ meters from the well & how & where to put the Y trap in ,in case it needs to be reamed out later! It is a great day as I was sweating the bad odor thing having rented houses with the drain not set up with a U Trap. . No wonder the pictures I got for the trap was wrong!

Although I got to admit I feel stupid for not knowing how it all works I am glad you all including my neighbor took the time to wise me up. And now I know why the salesman was showing me the s curve on the toilet as I was asking the wrong question!

although before today I was absolutely ignorant on the way it worked & how to do. I am glad i asked now instead of hating it later! Really glad the wax seal was not used much . I will make sure It is installed & not cemented as that not only would look piss poor but a real drag when it is throne replacement time. This is the small test Baan sometime next year i hope to start the real nice house & probably turn this one into a 2 car garage! Boy am I learning about the frustrations of building here in LOS everyone talks about. Next time around I will have a much better clue & am a quick learner in the SCHOOL of HARD KNOCKS!

Thanks again for the help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Barry

Edited December 29, 2007 by Beardog

[lopburi3]

The gray water is not normally plumbed to the septic systems here so there is no vacuum problem that I am aware of for single family homes (where each drain tries directly to the open gray water drains that surround the house).

Most Thai I know shower often enough to avoid empty water traps. With the humidity normal in Thailand they do not dry out that quickly in any case for the majority of people (who do not air condition there baths).