Farang Motorcyclists In The Pattaya Area.

[CHdiver]

If I watch how the Pizza Delivery Guys drive around, I wonder how they survive one day. But many Tourists do the same, but they sit many times on bigger bikes. Thoes who really can hurt other people if they get down.

I don't care if somebody don't has a helmet or drives to fast. If they have an accident and I come along, I just drive on. I don't waist my time to help stupid people.

It's amazing how you manage to do a full IQ assessment while driving past.

People not wearing a Helmet or speeding are stupid, no need for an assessment. You would be surprised how many I saw going down, but then, I just drive around 8000 km a year on my motorbike in Pattaya. So what do I know.

[Jareddiving]

The people who say Thais are good drivers should open there eyes!

You have good Thai drivers and bad ones..

The same goes for Farang drivers, you have good ones and bad ones.

[tropo]

I'm a motorcyclist too, been driving for years in PTY. Sorry, but I agree w/ Mobi. Most Thais do stay on the left etc. most of the time, esp. if there's traffic. It makes sense to do that, because that's where you pass cars, you have a better view of what's ahead, it's less start-and-stop, and it's safer (less likely to be hit from behind, less likely to hit someone who stops suddenly in front). Many cars will want to go faster than bikes, so they won't tolerate bikes in the middle of the road and will flash lights and follow aggressively; motorcyclists want to avoid the problem.

However, if there's a nice big clear space, not many cars near, experienced bikers like most Thais will move to the center, since the road is probably smoother there and now it is is safer (nobody's gonna open his door on you and you have more time if somebody pulls out in front of you from a side street, no cart vendors blocking you, etc.).

If a motorcyclist is driving on a two-way road and wishes to drive slower than most of the traffic, he's going to have problems whether he choses to hog the lane, or stay on the left. They're both dangerous.

The left is totally unsafe due to parked vehicles (I don't suppose the OP has ever slammed his left knee into a car door), potholes, bad road surfaces (sand, gravel), ridges or furrows in the road which can easily cause accidents. Travelling in the centre of the lane is also dangerous in Thailand because the Thai car drivers (and some Farangs such as the OP) just don't take kindly to following motorcycles...it's just against their principals because they feel that motorcycles should stay out of their way because they're bigger and faster.

The safest postion for a motorcyclist is in the centre of the road in most cases. Every motorcycle safety training course in the west advocates riding near the centre of the traffic lane, slightly to the right (countries driving left side). This is probably the reason why many Farang do this. I always stay in the centre when I'm keeping up to speed. I also keep an eye out for agressive drivers in my rear view mirror at all times.

[ZZZ]

At the end of end day my rant is about farnags - supposedly from a more highly developed , orderly and law abiding society - who come to Thailand and suddenly behave the same, if not worse than their hosts. Is it any wonder there is a growing anti-farang sentiment in the land?

How law abiding a society is is directly proportional to the risk of getting caught.

In most western countries the traffic police keep a keen eye on all sorts of traffic behavior and you are very likely to get caught if you brake any part of the high way code.

In Thailand the only thing the traffic police seem to do is to set up a the occasional check point and then just fine people without a helmet, 99% of the high way code is never enforced.

If a western traffic police spent an hour at a Pattaya, light controlled, crossing he would probably suspend hundreds of licenses and bring in a fortune of fines, a local traffic police don't seem to find anything wrong!

All this leads to everyone just drive as they like, causing irritation and one of the worst traffic accident records in the world.

The police should apply the law 100% to make for a safe® traffic environment.

[PeaceBlondie]

I've ridden about 380,000 km in four countries, and gone through a motorcycle safe driving course. I never worry too much about following a precise slice of the pavement. I surely don't putt along in the gutter at 40 kph. I come from a country where motorcycles have as much right to use any part of the lane as a car or truck, and I drive in the lane, not on the edge, verge, or fringe. But then, I drive as fast or faster than the cars in Thailand, so I think that entitles me to use the passing lane, or even to pass on the right in the right edge!

But I've never driven any motor vehicle one km inside Chonburi province, so maybe Pattaya is a whole 'nother world. And of course I use a helmet 99.8% of the time. But honestly, I have no divine right to judge and condemn those farang who don't wear helmets. I won't be attending their funerals.

[Mobi]

I'm a motorcyclist too, been driving for years in PTY. Sorry, but I agree w/ Mobi. Most Thais do stay on the left etc. most of the time, esp. if there's traffic. It makes sense to do that, because that's where you pass cars, you have a better view of what's ahead, it's less start-and-stop, and it's safer (less likely to be hit from behind, less likely to hit someone who stops suddenly in front). Many cars will want to go faster than bikes, so they won't tolerate bikes in the middle of the road and will flash lights and follow aggressively; motorcyclists want to avoid the problem.

However, if there's a nice big clear space, not many cars near, experienced bikers like most Thais will move to the center, since the road is probably smoother there and now it is is safer (nobody's gonna open his door on you and you have more time if somebody pulls out in front of you from a side street, no cart vendors blocking you, etc.).

At any given time you see a lot of Thai bikes in the center even in traffic, but most of them have a purpose, such as preparing to turn right, or attempting to pass on the right, or filtering between lanes. I think filtering is legal in Thailand, but even if not it is recognized as a normal practice.

Then there's a substantial minority, say, 20%, who are just crazy drivers and weave all over everywhere etc. These are so high profile that they get all the attention and seem to represent the majority. They don't.

So most Thais are much better motorcyclists than most farang in Thailand. But the OP's point was to rant against the farangs rather than to compare driving skills. I totally agree with that rant and would add that a lot of farangs, esp. the old ones, drive too slow.

No, many Thais don't receive any driver's ed and don't even take a test for their license; no, obviously the gov't doesn't care, but does issue periodic warnings, like "be careful during Songkran." Farangs have passed a driver's test at least. But most Thais are used to motorbikes from an early age, and many are in fact skillful drivers.

As for helmets, many motorbike shops sell a heavy INDEX for about 1200 baht that give substantially more protection than the 150 baht job sold at Tesco's. If I didn't have an import, that's what I'd wear.

Thank you JSixpack. You you have elucidated the points I was trying, not very successfully, to get across.

And all the more convincing, coming from a motorcyclist.

[Mobi]

If a motorcyclist is driving on a two-way road and wishes to drive slower than most of the traffic, he's going to have problems whether he choses to hog the lane, or stay on the left. They're both dangerous.

Travelling in the centre of the lane is also dangerous in Thailand because the Thai car drivers (and some Farangs such as the OP) just don't take kindly to following motorcycles...it's just against their principals because they feel that motorcycles should stay out of their way because they're bigger and faster.

Will you kindly show me where I have said that I don't take kindly to following motorcycles and that they should stay out of my way because I'm bigger and faster?

I have stated very clearly that they should stay out of everyone's way if they value their lives, and if they are going slower than the general stream of traffic, and making it difficult for cars to overtake, then they will eventually become an accident victim.

It may not be right, but your rights won't do much for you when you are lying in a wooden box.

[ErikD]

My wife and I had 4 motor bikers admiring our car somewhat to closely and all 4 were Thai.

1 of them should have been dead, but luckily only had some broken ribs.

None of them were wearing helmets.

I do not want to proove here that Thais are worse drivers, it is just a statistical thing.

I do think any Farang on a motorbike here is slightly crazy.

For very little money you can buy a banger and that is always safer then driving a motorbike.

[mikethevigoman]

Perhaps Farangs are just good at adapting to local conditions !

Naka.

I tried my hardest to get the thais to drive like me , in the end i gave up and now i ride/drive like one of them !,.. when in rome,

[mikethevigoman]

At the end of end day my rant is about farnags - supposedly from a more highly developed , orderly and law abiding society - who come to Thailand and suddenly behave the same, if not worse than their hosts. Is it any wonder there is a growing anti-farang sentiment in the land?

How law abiding a society is is directly proportional to the risk of getting caught.

In most western countries the traffic police keep a keen eye on all sorts of traffic behavior and you are very likely to get caught if you brake any part of the high way code.

In Thailand the only thing the traffic police seem to do is to set up a the occasional check point and then just fine people without a helmet, 99% of the high way code is never enforced.

If a western traffic police spent an hour at a Pattaya, light controlled, crossing he would probably suspend hundreds of licenses and bring in a fortune of fines, a local traffic police don't seem to find anything wrong!

All this leads to everyone just drive as they like, causing irritation and one of the worst traffic accident records in the world.

The police should apply the law 100% to make for a safe® traffic environment.

I wonder how far you would get in england delivering this lot ! ,no ,i prefer the way here, we have choices, much better,.

[asiaworld]

IMHO .. it's not nationality related at all .. it's more small motobikes related .. i can feel what Mobi feels day in & out .. it's baad here, much worse in Malaysia.. & in places like Cambodia,Laos, Vietnam extremely stressful as well (fewer cars in general, so not as bad yet).. I think some cities in China, like Guangzhou banned the bikes alltogether !! Now that saves lives

[tropo]

If a motorcyclist is driving on a two-way road and wishes to drive slower than most of the traffic, he's going to have problems whether he choses to hog the lane, or stay on the left. They're both dangerous.

Travelling in the centre of the lane is also dangerous in Thailand because the Thai car drivers (and some Farangs such as the OP) just don't take kindly to following motorcycles...it's just against their principals because they feel that motorcycles should stay out of their way because they're bigger and faster.

Will you kindly show me where I have said that I don't take kindly to following motorcycles and that they should stay out of my way because I'm bigger and faster?

I have stated very clearly that they should stay out of everyone's way if they value their lives, and if they are going slower than the general stream of traffic, and making it difficult for cars to overtake, then they will eventually become an accident victim.

It may not be right, but your rights won't do much for you when you are lying in a wooden box.

You made it quite clear that you don't like following slow moving motorcycles (particularly when ridden by Farangs), which hog the lane. Wasn't this the main purpose of your rant?

I thought I made it clear that it's just as dangerous driving on the left edge of the road as in the middle of the lane.

Which is more dangerous at the time depends a lot on how much space is available on the left shoulder and the quality of the road surface.

It's a known safety fact that most drivers are not aware of the exact postion of the opposite side of their vehicle. That's where you expect motorcyclists to stay; on your left edge and exposed to being side-swiped or run off the road. No thanks, I'll hog your lane and just keep an eye out for aggressive drivers in my rear view mirror.

[tropo]

My wife and I had 4 motor bikers admiring our car somewhat to closely and all 4 were Thai.

1 of them should have been dead, but luckily only had some broken ribs.

None of them were wearing helmets.

I do not want to proove here that Thais are worse drivers, it is just a statistical thing.

I do think any Farang on a motorbike here is slightly crazy.

For very little money you can buy a banger and that is always safer then driving a motorbike.

Everything one does in life is a calculated risk. You flew here didn't you?

There are distinct advantages of using a motorcycle in Pattaya that make the risk well worth taking:

1. It cuts travelling time by about 90% if you live in Pattaya. Most jouneys which would take a car an hour would take me about 5 minutes. I never stand in traffic and I'm always first up at traffic lights.

2. Parking is a breeze just about anywhere. Park out the front and go right in.

3. A much better view.

4. 100 baht a week on gas.

5. A very low initial investment.

If I lived in the country somewhere, or out the back of the darkside I'd probably prefer driving.

[Mobi]

If a motorcyclist is driving on a two-way road and wishes to drive slower than most of the traffic, he's going to have problems whether he choses to hog the lane, or stay on the left. They're both dangerous.

Travelling in the centre of the lane is also dangerous in Thailand because the Thai car drivers (and some Farangs such as the OP) just don't take kindly to following motorcycles...it's just against their principals because they feel that motorcycles should stay out of their way because they're bigger and faster.

Will you kindly show me where I have said that I don't take kindly to following motorcycles and that they should stay out of my way because I'm bigger and faster?

I have stated very clearly that they should stay out of everyone's way if they value their lives, and if they are going slower than the general stream of traffic, and making it difficult for cars to overtake, then they will eventually become an accident victim.

It may not be right, but your rights won't do much for you when you are lying in a wooden box.

You made it quite clear that you don't like following slow moving motorcycles (particularly when ridden by Farangs), which hog the lane. Wasn't this the main purpose of your rant?

I thought I made it clear that it's just as dangerous driving on the left edge of the road as in the middle of the lane.

Which is more dangerous at the time depends a lot on how much space is available on the left shoulder and the quality of the road surface.

It's a known safety fact that most drivers are not aware of the exact postion of the opposite side of their vehicle. That's where you expect motorcyclists to stay; on your left edge and exposed to being side-swiped or run off the road. No thanks, I'll hog your lane and just keep an eye out for aggressive drivers in my rear view mirror.

Show me where I said I didn't like them? I've already stated several times that the main thrust of my rant was at farangs who drive without helmets and defective lights. I must have reiterated that at least 3 times.

Show me where I said I don't like following slow moving motor cycles. If you can understand English you would see that what I said was that I deplored what I consider to be a dangerous practise. You don't consider it to be dangerous. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am mine. But what I said is a million miles from saying I don't like following slow moving motorcycles.

Please stop putting words in my mouth and making inferences which have no basis in fact.

You seem to have taken a personal affront that I dare to criticise the driving habits of farang motorcyclists.

Well, I have no doubt that you are skillful, safe and responsible motorcyclist, but that doesn't mean that all farangs are.

May you continue to ride safely on these dangerous roads.

Happy New year

[MsFigure]

I'm not going to say who the worst drivers are (thais and foreigners are just as bad as each other IMO) but I will say that whenever i find myself cursing the idiot who has either cut me off, is right up my ass or any other action with the potential to cause an accident - IT IS usually a foreigner behind the wheel or on a bike

One thing that I do find weird though is... driving here in thailand (Pattaya and surrounding areas anyway) is actually less hazardous than the driving back in Perth (Australia)

[OneeyedJohn]

My limited experience here tells me that if I do 80 the cars wanna do 90, if I do 90 they wanna do 100, if I do 120 they wanna do 130.

I just keep out of the way, or go faster.

[tropo]

You seem to have taken a personal affront that I dare to criticise the driving habits of farang motorcyclists.

Well, I have no doubt that you are skillful, safe and responsible motorcyclist, but that doesn't mean that all farangs are.

May you continue to ride safely on these dangerous roads.

Happy New year

Happy New Year!

[JSixpack]

I do think any Farang on a motorbike here is slightly crazy.

For very little money you can buy a banger and that is always safer then driving a motorbike.

Everything one does in life is a calculated risk. You flew here didn't you?

There are distinct advantages of using a motorcycle in Pattaya that make the risk well worth taking:

1. It cuts travelling time by about 90% if you live in Pattaya. Most jouneys which would take a car an hour would take me about 5 minutes. I never stand in traffic and I'm always first up at traffic lights.

2. Parking is a breeze just about anywhere. Park out the front and go right in.

3. A much better view.

4. 100 baht a week on gas.

5. A very low initial investment.

6. Great fun, year-round!

[sweetchariot]

There are distinct advantages of using a motorcycle in Pattaya that make the risk well worth taking:

4. 100 baht a week on gas.

5. A very low initial investment.

If losing your life or mobility is worth so little then good luck to you.

All you bikers need to understand that you are 2nd class citizens on the roads of Pattaya, and have no rights at all. Our big cars will hurt you, so stay out of the way

[Mobi]

I said earlier in this thread that I personally know of too many people, Thai and farang who have died as the result of motor cycle accidents.

I don't know the precise circumstances that let to all these accidents, but I do know for sure that in 3 cases the motorcyclists were doing nothing wrong - they just happened to be in the way of drunken drivers who ploughed straight into them. If they had been driving a car it most probably would have never happened, and even if it did, they would have stood a much better chance of staying alive.

Back to my days of motorcycling - some 30 years ago, I recall with horror the number of near misses I had, when most 4 wheeled vehicles would behave as though I didn't exist; cutting me off, running me off the road, and pulling out into the main road in front of me, causing me to brake violently or swerve dangerously out of their path. Then a Bangkok bus was kind enough to send me flying at a red light, and made me see the error of my ways.

Yes, everything in life is risk. It's a risk getting up in the morning, walking downstairs, crossing the road, going for a swim, getting on a plane etc etc. But they are all calculated risks, and the odds are generally stacked in your favour.

IMHO riding a motorbike anywhere in Thailand is more risk than I am prepared to take, and those that do so, must realise that the odds of having a serious accident are alarmingly high. But then to make matters even worse, many flout all the rules of the road, do not wear helmets, and don't even have lights on.

I acknowledge that there are some farang motorcyclists that ride in a safe and responsible manner, and respect their decision to use this mode of transport. It's their decision and they know the risks.

But the 'no helmet/ no lights brigade'? - well, I'm lost for words. (unusually )

[CGW]

I have been riding motorcycles for over 40 years, I owned a motor cycle shop at one time in the UK. I am a member of the advanced motorcyclists institute. I rode a motorcycle as daily transport in Bangkok from the mid eighties to the mid nineties - there was no other way to get around then, while at times is was scary, it doesn't compare to driving on the roads around here now!

I don't care if you are the best rider in the world, in too many instances its out of your control, the roads are a disgrace, traffic rules? there are non! If you are in an accident the end result is the same whether it is your fault or another's, the outcome of motorcycle accidents at any speed can be quite gruesome!

Wearing a quality helmet that fits and is tightly fastened, good shoes (having spent some time around the emergency rooms in Thai hospitals the amount of feet injuries here are huge!) and a course a jacket and long trousers, this will give you some protection "when" you have a incident.

Me, I'll stick to the car Weighing the odds? there just not in my favor!

[soundman]

Those of us who don't live in Pattaya or Phuket may not realize that in those places, farang tourists can rent bikes with 100 to 160 horsepower, which can accelerate faster than almost any Ferrari or Porsche. If you don't know how to ride such a bike (and much worse, if you're drunk), you've got a guided missile between your legs and can go from zero to 160 kph in about eight seconds!!

Riding one of those things bare-headed proves that they consider their head worthless.

Guided - you must be joking!

I have seen some learners in Pattaya "learning" how to ride five minutes after they have hired out a 900cc bike. Unbelievable!

[tropo]

There are distinct advantages of using a motorcycle in Pattaya that make the risk well worth taking:

4. 100 baht a week on gas.

5. A very low initial investment.

If losing your life or mobility is worth so little then good luck to you.

All you bikers need to understand that you are 2nd class citizens on the roads of Pattaya, and have no rights at all. Our big cars will hurt you, so stay out of the way

We know our place on the road and make allowances for it. Spending hours everyday to travel short distances is hardly the way to go. You wouldn't have a chance catching me in your big car.

[phukethovercraft]

I have been reading your tread and find it very funny that some reply's say stupid farlang this and that when it is actually a farlang writing the reply. Don’t call yourself stupid because you look stupid. Class them as holiday makers. Class yourself as expatriates or expat for short. And don’t tell me you have always worn a helmet when riding a motorbike?.. Just popping down the road love.

If you dont like it you can always do the... "Funky Chicken Dance".

It works for me!

[tropo]

I have been reading your tread and find it very funny that some reply's say stupid farlang this and that when it is actually a farlang writing the reply. Don’t call yourself stupid because you look stupid. Class them as holiday makers. Class yourself as expatriates or expat for short. And don’t tell me you have always worn a helmet when riding a motorbike?.. Just popping down the road love.

If you dont like it you can always do the... "Funky Chicken Dance".

It works for me!

I can't speak for the rest, but I will tell you just that. I ALWAYS put on a helmit, even just popping down the road.

[Kerryd]

I have seen some learners in Pattaya "learning" how to ride five minutes after they have hired out a 900cc bike. Unbelievable!

I hear you on that one !

When I was posted to Germany back in the mid-80's, anyone that wanted to operate a motorbike had to take a course. They had this little area where they would drive 100/125cc bikes through some traffic cones at 10-15 kms/hr, for a day. Then (assuming you didn't screw that up), you were motorcycle qualified. Quite a few of our guys ran out and bought the biggest, baddest bikes available. 1,200cc Ninjas and the like, and headed out for the autobahn.

The first 3 months of our posting saw 1 person killed and 3 others severely injured in motorcycle accidents (and two car crashes with minor injuries due to drunk drivers). The little bit of training they did receive in no way prepared them to fly down the autobahn at 200+ kms/hr.

The difference in Pattaya, is that a lot of the tourists that hit the ground here probably never ever drove a motorcycle before. The rental shops apparently don't check to see if you are actually qualified to operate a motorcycle before they hand you the keys. Combine that with booze, babes and little (or no) traffic enforcement and you have a recipe for disaster.

I went on a 7 day trip in December with a bunch of bikers from Pattaya. Up to Bangkok for the King's birthday, then to Lampang, onwards to Chiang Mai for the annual Bike Week, over to Chiang Rai for a couple of days and then back to Pattaya. Whenever the people in our group hit the highway, they all wore helmets (but for those 2 minute putts to the nearest store or restaurant, hardly anyone wore one). It was a great trip, about 3,000 kilometers in total and everyone returned home safely (as fas as I know).

I noticed in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai that fewer people (on average) wore helmets at all, anywhere, compared to Pattaya.

When I'm cruising around Pattaya, I always have my helmet on (if it's far enough away that I'm taking the bike, then it's helmet time). I have ended up with a passenger once in awhile that I didn't have a helmet for though (I don't normally carry a spare).

I have seen a lot of Thai drivers doing things that we would consider illegal in western countries (i.e. cutting through traffic to get in front of everyone at intersections, driving on the wrong side of the road, or the wrong way on one-way streets, no helmets, no lights, etc, etc), but the most dangerous drivers I've seen so far have been foreign tourists renting the big bikes and the big jeeps (Cobra Gold season is usually the time I notice this the most).

I usually know what to expect from your normal Thai drivers (and learned long, long ago to look over both shoulders before making any turns or lane changes), but with those wahoos, you never know what they are going to do.

[stevepattaya]

Maybe I'm stating the obvious here - but ALL without exception of the original 'driving rules' raised in this thread I have seen broken by Thai drivers as well as falangs - and more times than I can remember. It's not just falang sector that drive motorbikes badly, it's a cross section of the whole community that drive motor bikes badly - not mention the odd 12, 13 14 year old motor cyclist you see out and about! I guess you could argue that falangs that have received better road awareness training have less excuse though ....

[thaiclan]

Mobi your OP stated "Motorcyclists will never have equal rights on the roads here, and the Thais understand this and keep well to the left, or stay on the hard shoulder ." Then you go on to state that you have nothing against motorcylists... If they dont have equal rights is that because you (as a car driver) have more??

I agree some drivers are the worst! And that goes for car drivers too. Just like the ones that believe motorbikes do not have rights to an EQUAL amount of the road. Every vehicle training course in UK will tell you that car drivers must give the same amount of room to a motorbike as it would do to a car, yet the farang car drivers mostly omit this legality when in Thailand. Also "filtering" is perfectly legal when executed in a safe manner (that is to say weaving amongst the traffic to get ahead). I have notice whilst riding on a bike or in my car that it is mainly the farang car drivers who have problems with this and edge closer to close the gaps both in front and to the side.

Cars without doubt are the safer option, but I couldn't remain sane in Pattaya and sit in the endless traffic when I just need to do a short 2km journey.

I urge just one thing. When you are sitting in your cars complaining about the amount of motorbikes gliding past you, close your eyes and imagine a Pattaya when each one of those "idiots", farang or Thai have their own car and can elongate the traffic jams to Beijing proportions!

[draggons]

Was out yesterday for a run round all the back roads from Ban Chang and ended up at Buddha Mountain, was intending going off road so was fully clothed for it, MX boots, body armour etc. The amount of westeners, I expect tourists, up by the mountain on big bikes in shorts, t-shirts, sandles and pudding bowl helmets was unbelivebale. Quite a few crusing about in just shorts.

Wonder how much skin some of these numptys leave on the roads of Thailand each year?

[Mobi]

Mobi your OP stated "Motorcyclists will never have equal rights on the roads here, and the Thais understand this and keep well to the left, or stay on the hard shoulder ." Then you go on to state that you have nothing against motorcylists... If they dont have equal rights is that because you (as a car driver) have more??

They don't have equal rights because if they try to assert their 'equality', in all probability they will end up dead. This is nothing to do with the law or whether or not I think, as a car driver, I have more rights. It is common sense and everything to do with a "survival of the fittest". As has been said many times in this thread, most (but not all) Thai drivers understand this, but very few farang motorcyclists do. Go back and read the views of farangs who ride bikes in Pattaya. Tropo doesn't agree with me, but just everyone else does.

I agree some drivers are the worst! And that goes for car drivers too. Just like the ones that believe motorbikes do not have rights to an EQUAL amount of the road.

(Yes, and here we can include most Thai drivers of cars, pickups, trucks and buses.)

Every vehicle training course in UK will tell you that car drivers must give the same amount of room to a motorbike as it would do to a car, yet the farang car drivers mostly omit this legality when in Thailand. Also "filtering" is perfectly legal when executed in a safe manner (that is to say weaving amongst the traffic to get ahead). I have notice whilst riding on a bike or in my car that it is mainly the farang car drivers who have problems with this and edge closer to close the gaps both in front and to the side.

Cars without doubt are the safer option, but I couldn't remain sane in Pattaya and sit in the endless traffic when I just need to do a short 2km journey.

As previously stated, I drive into Pattaya most days of the week, and provided I choose my routes and times sensibly, I rarely get held up badly in jams. I don't understand why some motorists have so much trouble, because traffic jams rarely effect me. Compared to Bangkok, Pattaya traffic is a dream

I urge just one thing. When you are sitting in your cars complaining about the amount of motorbikes gliding past you,

I never said anything of the sort. I never once complained about the number of motorcyclists gliding past me.Go back and read what I did say. My main complaint - by far - was that many farang many motorcyclists do not wear helmets, do not dress appropriately, and often have defective lights. I also said that many drive in a manner that increases the chances of them having an accident. Everyone is entitled to use the public roads of Thailand, and that's the way it is. I understand that many Thais have no choice but to use motorcycles, but for sure as heck, I will fight tooth and nail to prevent any of my loved ones from using that highly dangerous form of transport.

close your eyes and imagine a Pattaya when each one of those "idiots", farang or Thai have their own car and can elongate the traffic jams to Beijing proportions!