Pedestrian Crosswalks

[chiang mai]

Many of the larger towns and cities have zebra or pedestrian crosswalks that are not located at traffic lights. As a pedestrian I have tried to use these things and am usually frustrated that motorists generally ignore them and any right of way privileges they might convey - then I remember I am in Thailand and get over my frustration quickly. I watch other pedestrians, mostly tourists, try to use them and treat them the same way they would back home and often nearly die in the process.

As motorist my instinct is to stop and give right of way to the pedestrian who is using the crosswalk, even though other road users do not. Every time I do take the "hero" approach and stop it usually results in some form of near catastrophe for the pedestrian, typically this will be a motorbike coming up the inside too fast who doesn't understand why I've stopped and can't see the crosswalk user - more than once this has resulted in casualties.

So what to do, stop or not - yes I know what the law says but the law here says lots of things, most of which are enforced on a convenience basis only.

Edited January 4, 2008 by chiang mai

[HobbsTheFerociousTiger]

Easy. Stop when the light turns red, continue when the pedestrian(s) have passed or the light turns green, whichever comes first.

[Heng]

I have our driver flash our highbeams combined with a couple of friendly honks to let everyone know that we're coming through. It's win win. Pedestrians warned, and those who are tailgating don't rear end us either.

Edited January 4, 2008 by Heng

[peter991]

I remember when I first came to Thailand ... went to cross at a crosswalk - told off by BF - who asked if I wanted to die!

Lesson: Crosswalk / zebra crossing is ignored by motorists in Thailand. Sometimes to get to the other side of the road - you have to be born there!

Peter

[Crossy]

Many of the larger towns and cities have zebra or pedestrian crosswalks that are not located at traffic lights.

Hobbs, I think the highlighted word is important

Personally, I don't stop for the very reasons cited by the OP, it invariably results in a near-death experience for the pedestrian, even where there ARE lights motocys ignore them

As a pedestrian I cross one lane at a time, vehicles usually go around the obstacle that is 95kg of farang (treat it as a roundabout).

Unfortunately, in most of Asia the black and white stripes are merely there to show the ambulance where to collect its next passenger

[Maestro]

Easy. Stop when the light turns red, continue when the pedestrian(s) have passed or the light turns green, whichever comes first.

Please read the OP again:

...zebra or pedestrian crosswalks that are not located at traffic lights...

--

Maestro

[stumonster]

the same as when you use them as a pedestrian

if there is a large group gathered ready to cross , above 6 , then slow down and give way - else continue.

[PeaceBlondie]

The special crosswalks in Chiang Mai work most of the time. I mean the ones very well lighted at night, with a huge overhead sign warning motorists, a real red light, and a push button that activates the signal. Most of the traffic usually stops, long enough for the walkers to get across. I don't find motorcyclists violating the crossing lights any more than cars and trucks. Nevertheless, proceed with extreme caution.

[toptuan]

The OP has brought out an important aspect of living and surviving in LOS: the law vs. what the majority of people really do in practice.

We have a major intersection in our town, with stop signs on two opposing streets, and no traffic control on the other two opposing corners. In five years, I have never seen anyone stop at the stop signs. If you do stop, you risk being rear-ended, which can be life-threatening if you're on a motorbike like I drive. I tried stopping my first time at that location, and was greeted by a chorus of screeching tires behind me (buses, trucks, 4x4's etc.) I thought I was going to meet my Maker.

Caution: For the uninitiated foreigner in Thailand, it's easy to be "dead-right." Unfortunately, many a hapless tourist has fallen into this trap.

So, regardless of the law, figure out what the Romans do, and do then likewise. The only thing, then, you have to risk is putting yourself in a situation of paying tea money to the BIB when they decide to stop the rich farang on a technicality.

[HobbsTheFerociousTiger]

Hobbs, I think the highlighted word is important

Oh.. ok.. Then nobody stops of course, why even ask.

It's only 'somewhat' of a topic if the crossing includes red lights; I only stop when there's actually people crossing in that case. If there's no red lights then nobody in his right mind stops. It would just confuse everybody including the pedestrians.

[stevemiddie]

Many of the larger towns and cities have zebra or pedestrian crosswalks that are not located at traffic lights. As a pedestrian I have tried to use these things and am usually frustrated that motorists generally ignore them and any right of way privileges they might convey - then I remember I am in Thailand and get over my frustration quickly. I watch other pedestrians, mostly tourists, try to use them and treat them the same way they would back home and often nearly die in the process.

As motorist my instinct is to stop and give right of way to the pedestrian who is using the crosswalk, even though other road users do not. Every time I do take the "hero" approach and stop it usually results in some form of near catastrophe for the pedestrian,

typically this will be a motorbike coming up the inside too fast who doesn't understand why I've stopped and can't see the crosswalk user - more than once this has resulted in casualties

You,ll be doing the pedestrian a favour by NOT stopping. .

So what to do, stop or not - yes I know what the law says but the law here says lots of things, most of which are enforced on a convenience basis only.

Edited January 4, 2008 by stevemiddie

[chiang mai]

Many of the larger towns and cities have zebra or pedestrian crosswalks that are not located at traffic lights. As a pedestrian I have tried to use these things and am usually frustrated that motorists generally ignore them and any right of way privileges they might convey - then I remember I am in Thailand and get over my frustration quickly. I watch other pedestrians, mostly tourists, try to use them and treat them the same way they would back home and often nearly die in the process.

As motorist my instinct is to stop and give right of way to the pedestrian who is using the crosswalk, even though other road users do not. Every time I do take the "hero" approach and stop it usually results in some form of near catastrophe for the pedestrian,

typically this will be a motorbike coming up the inside too fast who doesn't understand why I've stopped and can't see the crosswalk user - more than once this has resulted in casualties

You,ll be doing the pedestrian a favour by NOT stopping. .

So what to do, stop or not - yes I know what the law says but the law here says lots of things, most of which are enforced on a convenience basis only.

Yes, I've concluded that's the correct thing to do, unfortunately - I just wanted to see what everyone else's thinking is on the subject.

Edited January 4, 2008 by chiang mai

[chiang mai]

Hobbs, I think the highlighted word is important

Oh.. ok.. Then nobody stops of course, why even ask.

It's only 'somewhat' of a topic if the crossing includes red lights; I only stop when there's actually people crossing in that case. If there's no red lights then nobody in his right mind stops. It would just confuse everybody including the pedestrians.

Hobbs I can see that the issue of lights is confusing you in this thread. Are you saying you wouldn't stop, even if people were crossing and there is NO light?

[DP25]

Crosswalks in Thailand are completely useless unless there is a police officer there to stop traffic. Never expect a Thai driver to so much as even slow down for a pedestrian, they are in a car and the pedestrian is on foot, so they are of higher social standing and the pedestrian should yield to his superior. Just watch how Thais cross the road, for example trying to cross in front of cars leaving a parking lot at a mall, they never walk in front of a Benz, they wait for a taxi or some 30 year old piece of junk before they try to cross.

[chiang mai]

Crosswalks in Thailand are completely useless unless there is a police officer there to stop traffic. Never expect a Thai driver to so much as even slow down for a pedestrian, they are in a car and the pedestrian is on foot, so they are of higher social standing and the pedestrian should yield to his superior. Just watch how Thais cross the road, for example trying to cross in front of cars leaving a parking lot at a mall, they never walk in front of a Benz, they wait for a taxi or some 30 year old piece of junk before they try to cross.

And therein lays the key, enforcement of the laws.

[Scott]

I am a stopper. I stop and let the pedestrians proceed, but with that said, I only do it when the traffic is moving relatively slow and I am not going to get rear-ended, sending me crashing into the people crossing. If the traffic is moving quickly, even most farangs aren't going to mess with fast moving cars.

You can get into a lot of trouble if you hit someone in a crosswalk.

[torrenova]

Stop ?

Yes if you are a pedestrian, no if you are a car, like hel_l if you are a truck or larger vehicle.

[petedk]

Easy. Stop when the light turns red, continue when the pedestrian(s) have passed or the light turns green, whichever comes first.

Please read the OP again:

...zebra or pedestrian crosswalks that are not located at traffic lights...

--

Maestro

There are several crossings in Bangkok that are controlled by lights. I know of some on Asoke and Thong Lor. These show red to stop cars and green for pedestrians to cross. DON"T cross without looking BOTH ways. I was nearly hit by a garbage truck travelling at full speed in the wrong side of the road aand who didn't stop for the red light.

I use the crossing on Asoke daily and often there is a cop about 20 meters from there. Cars just don't stop for pedestrians and only very occasionally does the cop bother to stop the cars that run the lights.

I also drive a car and whenever I approach one of these crossings I am told by my wife not to stop.

Yes, Thailand is a dangerous place for pedestrians and you have to be very very careful. I use footbridges and the subway as much as possible.

[PaulUSA302]

When I was in Chiang Mai and going to the mall connected to the Lotus hotel, I had to use a cross walk with a light. A very nice Thai pressed the button for me and gestured with a wave of their arm with a warm smile that I should cross now that I had the light. I took one step into the road and was almost killed by a passing truck! I jumped back and waited for my heart to slow down before I decided to try again.

I tried it again and the cars did stop. I crossed over to the center divider and when I was abut to fully cross to the sidewalk... ZOOM! One car did stop but others ZOOMED past them..... I waved the stopped car to go on as I was not going to take a chance....

Once I saw an opening.... I ran to the other side!

I remember when I first came to Thailand ... went to cross at a crosswalk - told off by BF - who asked if I wanted to die!

Lesson: Crosswalk / zebra crossing is ignored by motorists in Thailand. Sometimes to get to the other side of the road - you have to be born there!

Peter

[kat]

Yeah, that's a major reason why I left Thailand. I thought it was pathetic that people have to cross the road like potential road kill, and traffic rules are set by whoever has the biggest or most expensive vehicle. And then if you do get hit, you're picked up feuding rescue workers to be thrown in the back of a dirty pickup - if they get to you on time.

There is absolutely no excuse for the lack of traffic enforcement in Thailand.

[Tung_Thaid]

Pedestrian Crossings know no discrimination in Thailand. Farang or Thai. Young or old.

This afternoon - Mae Rim Road - Chiang Mai. A very busy road. A school situated on the highway - Kuang Singh Primary School.

School is out, and the tallest student they have (so it seems) carries a large red flag and tries to get traffic to stop at the zebra crossing outside the school gate so that children (some very young) can cross the road. As a group they all run between the traffic flow to get to the road's centre divider. Despite the flag waving - no traffic actually stopped. They just got lucky with breaks between cars. Stragglers wanted to catch up with the main group - and ran out of the school gate as only kids can do and ran to join the rest now stuck halfway across the road. Are they given a safety lesson that they can only cross the road if they are "with the red flag guy" ? Wow, is that a recipe for a bad outcome.

As a group they are now stuck at the centre of the roadway - and clinging to the metal railing there for minutes while the flag waver does his bit to attempt to get the traffic to stop so that they can cross. To no avail. Traffic is now speeding past them on both sides. And the lane of traffic that they are trying to cross - has a green light at the intersection ahead - so the traffic is moving very fast. Cant stop for small school children at a zebra crossing - I might miss the green light !

Kids being what they are - they were all laughing and jostling for the best spot to be in - so that they could dart to the other side of the road at the best opportunity. I am guessing but they were sort of 6 - 8 year olds. The flag bearer was maybe 10 years.

I couldnt watch any longer. It was excruciating. I kept walking on and didnt look back. To see such young children exposed to significant danger without any regard by school personnel or traffic or road signs / hazard lights - was a reminder yet again of LOS and its differences.

[soundman]

For those not aquainted with thai roads & traffic - you would do well to remember the game "frogger".

Seriously - trusting that everbody else will always obey traffic instructions is putting your life in peril. Look out for one's self, & check both ways carefully before crossing the road.

An interesting sidenote to go along with Heng's post. From a driver's point of view, if you stop at a point where other drivers consider to be un-necesary you run a real risk of taking a hit in the back end.

Just beep your horn, turn the hazards on, flick the hi beams & make a few eratic manouvers and the road usually clears itself of pedestrians.

Soundman.

[kat]

Pedestrian Crossings know no discrimination in Thailand. Farang or Thai. Young or old.

This afternoon - Mae Rim Road - Chiang Mai. A very busy road. A school situated on the highway - Kuang Singh Primary School.

School is out, and the tallest student they have (so it seems) carries a large red flag and tries to get traffic to stop at the zebra crossing outside the school gate so that children (some very young) can cross the road. As a group they all run between the traffic flow to get to the road's centre divider. Despite the flag waving - no traffic actually stopped. They just got lucky with breaks between cars. Stragglers wanted to catch up with the main group - and ran out of the school gate as only kids can do and ran to join the rest now stuck halfway across the road. Are they given a safety lesson that they can only cross the road if they are "with the red flag guy" ? Wow, is that a recipe for a bad outcome.

As a group they are now stuck at the centre of the roadway - and clinging to the metal railing there for minutes while the flag waver does his bit to attempt to get the traffic to stop so that they can cross. To no avail. Traffic is now speeding past them on both sides. And the lane of traffic that they are trying to cross - has a green light at the intersection ahead - so the traffic is moving very fast. Cant stop for small school children at a zebra crossing - I might miss the green light !

Kids being what they are - they were all laughing and jostling for the best spot to be in - so that they could dart to the other side of the road at the best opportunity. I am guessing but they were sort of 6 - 8 year olds. The flag bearer was maybe 10 years.

I couldnt watch any longer. It was excruciating. I kept walking on and didnt look back. To see such young children exposed to significant danger without any regard by school personnel or traffic or road signs / hazard lights - was a reminder yet again of LOS and its differences.

The saddest thing about your story is the high probability that those children's parents don't give a thought to other people's children stuck out in the road in the same way.

[chiang mai]

Pedestrian Crossings know no discrimination in Thailand. Farang or Thai. Young or old.

This afternoon - Mae Rim Road - Chiang Mai. A very busy road. A school situated on the highway - Kuang Singh Primary School.

School is out, and the tallest student they have (so it seems) carries a large red flag and tries to get traffic to stop at the zebra crossing outside the school gate so that children (some very young) can cross the road. As a group they all run between the traffic flow to get to the road's centre divider. Despite the flag waving - no traffic actually stopped. They just got lucky with breaks between cars. Stragglers wanted to catch up with the main group - and ran out of the school gate as only kids can do and ran to join the rest now stuck halfway across the road. Are they given a safety lesson that they can only cross the road if they are "with the red flag guy" ? Wow, is that a recipe for a bad outcome.

As a group they are now stuck at the centre of the roadway - and clinging to the metal railing there for minutes while the flag waver does his bit to attempt to get the traffic to stop so that they can cross. To no avail. Traffic is now speeding past them on both sides. And the lane of traffic that they are trying to cross - has a green light at the intersection ahead - so the traffic is moving very fast. Cant stop for small school children at a zebra crossing - I might miss the green light !

Kids being what they are - they were all laughing and jostling for the best spot to be in - so that they could dart to the other side of the road at the best opportunity. I am guessing but they were sort of 6 - 8 year olds. The flag bearer was maybe 10 years.

I couldnt watch any longer. It was excruciating. I kept walking on and didnt look back. To see such young children exposed to significant danger without any regard by school personnel or traffic or road signs / hazard lights - was a reminder yet again of LOS and its differences.

The saddest thing about your story is the high probability that those children's parents don't give a thought to other people's children stuck out in the road in the same way.

Not to derail the thread but every time I see mum or dad on a motorbike with one or two small kids balanced precariously somehow, I always think to myself, there goes another parent who doesn't care about their kids. Quite amazing really for a nation of people who seem so fond of children that they don't care about their safety at all.

[stumonster]

A lot of crossings outside schools I have seen have a policeman there to stop traffic to allow children to cross.

school exits should also be changed to have the main gate on a side street - I have seen a school in australia which has the main entrance access to Highway 1 , so it is not just a Thai problem.

[Travel2003]

The crosswalks are useless unless they are in connection with a traffic light.

First thing I learned as a pedestrian when I came to Thailand, and visited the neigbour countries, was to always follow behind the locals when they cross the roads. Never stop when you first have started, that will always confuse the motorists, as they often calculate how far you have come before they reach a certain point.

I have now learned to cross over wherever it is.

Have not tried the Highways yet.

[Scott]

It takes enforcement for laws to work. Virtually no one obeys a law that isn't enforced. If they enforce the pedestrian rights to cross at a crosswalk, things would improve. That said, like everywhere in the world, people have to look both ways and make sure it's safe to cross.

I work at a school and the people (parents) driving through the school grounds dropping off their kids are scary. They drive extremely fast and pay very little attention to anyone trying to cross the parking lot to get to the building. At least twice a week there is an accident (car-accident, not pedestrian accident). Yet even the school administration does nothing about it.

[roblin]

Yeah, that's a major reason why I left Thailand. I thought it was pathetic that people have to cross the road like potential road kill, and traffic rules are set by whoever has the biggest or most expensive vehicle. And then if you do get hit, you're picked up feuding rescue workers to be thrown in the back of a dirty pickup - if they get to you on time.

There is absolutely no excuse for the lack of traffic enforcement in Thailand.

This is one of the major reasons why I am leaving next week after 2years here. I value my life very high and don't want to risk dying.

Also the sidewalks are a joke. Its impossible to walk on most of them, often you have to walk onto the main street with speeding cars because they are occupied by vendors, transformators, powerline, trees, constructionwork.

[chiang mai]

One of the worst sensations for me is, having stopped at a crosswalk and seeing someone start to cross, and then checking my left hand mirror and seeing a motorbike come screaming up the inside with no clear intention of stopping. As the driver with a birds eye view I can see the accident that is going to happen. The only thing to do in that situation is to sound your horn to try and alert the pedestrian but that usually results in said pedestrian getting pi**ed off at what appears to an impatient motorist! It's a no win scenario for anyone involved. Someone suggested, someone who is not too bright I might add, that in that situation one should open the passenger door and bring down the motorbike in order to save the pedestrian! This was of course someone who has never ventured outside the M25 in his life!

[Travel2003]

Yeah, that's a major reason why I left Thailand. I thought it was pathetic that people have to cross the road like potential road kill, and traffic rules are set by whoever has the biggest or most expensive vehicle. And then if you do get hit, you're picked up feuding rescue workers to be thrown in the back of a dirty pickup - if they get to you on time.

There is absolutely no excuse for the lack of traffic enforcement in Thailand.

This is one of the major reasons why I am leaving next week after 2years here. I value my life very high and don't want to risk dying.

Although I clearly accept your reason to leave is the traffic in Thailand. Which I believe most of us most likely agree needs an improvement in a lot of fields.

But I must say I am surprised that this is the major reason for leaving a country.

Not the corruption? Or the Visa rules? Or lack of decent jobs? Or too low salaries? Or crime? Or peoples behavior? Or the politics? Or missing the family back home.

Or any other of 1000s of reasons one might come up with to leave any country.

Once again, I accept and understand that people have various reasons for leaving.