33k Baht Tax For Renew Visa?!

[katom]

Hi again guys.

Just came back from the tax office as I need to show income of 40K per month to make "extention of stay based on mariage".

My wife owns a shop and I have work-permit.

to show NET INCOME they want 33,000 BAHT PER YEAR !!!

Realy????

I read somewhere that its just 17,000 baht per year..

What do you say? sure they wrong as I have a lot ..alot alot of experience with thais dont know to do their job properly..

so? ?

[katom]

anybody ?????

[Strap]

Hi again guys.

Just came back from the tax office as I need to show income of 40K per month to make "extention of stay based on mariage".

My wife owns a shop and I have work-permit.

to show NET INCOME they want 33,000 BAHT PER YEAR !!!

Realy????

I read somewhere that its just 17,000 baht per year..

What do you say? sure they wrong as I have a lot ..alot alot of experience with thais dont know to do their job properly..

so? ?

Did you pay your monthly income tax?

that would be about right on 40,000 monthly income, about 3,000 a month on 40,000 .

that i what they are looking for the receipts of most likely.

Good luck

[katom]

my monthly income tax? what r u talking about?

we just paid 3000 baht on the last year (2007) in at once just for the visa thing.

ON NET INCOME OF 15K.

now we want to add more 25K to the net income and they want 30K EXTRA TAX ?????????

then went to immigration and they told us....ho....its not net income so we made all the way back to our home town back to tax office..just to be informed that NET will cost 33K (minus 3K that we paid already of course.. so nice from them)

anyway I'm not going to pay 33K they are crazy to think so .. if I not find the way to show them different calculation to pay less I'll go to singapore or my country..

unbelievble..

any advice guys I'm here between people(thai) whome dont know what left and right help me..

[singa-traz]

Hi again guys.

Just came back from the tax office as I need to show income of 40K per month to make "extention of stay based on mariage".

My wife owns a shop and I have work-permit.

to show NET INCOME they want 33,000 BAHT PER YEAR !!!

Realy????

I read somewhere that its just 17,000 baht per year..

What do you say? sure they wrong as I have a lot ..alot alot of experience with thais dont know to do their job properly..

so? ?

40KTHB Gross, you pay 28,100 THB Tax per year.

44KTHB Net, you pay 32,9000 THB per year.

So good question ... is it 40KTHB Gross or Net Salary?

[katom]

NET NET.

We're talking about NET income.

How the <deleted>$% adding extra 25K to the NET income calculate to be AN EXTRA OF 30,000 BAHT????? !!!!

on 15K net income I paid 3000 baht. SO HOW HOW HOW???

there is definatlly something wrong with the "proffesional tax guys" there....

[singa-traz]

NET NET.

We're talking about NET income.

How the <deleted>$% adding extra 25K to the NET income calculate to be AN EXTRA OF 30,000 BAHT????? !!!!

on 15K net income I paid 3000 baht. SO HOW HOW HOW???

there is definatlly something wrong with the "proffesional tax guys" there....

I'm afraid the Taxman is right.

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

Under 1000,000 THB of annual taxable income, you don't pay income tax.

[tijnebijn]

It is a pretty big sum indeed .

The first 100k , for what I understand , should be tax free .

Personal deduction and from husband/wife and children under 18 .

So if not having children making 480k , with deductions of personal and

spouse , which is I thought 30k the person , and first 100k , the tax paid

should be the % of 320k .

I'm sure some more knowledgeable people can explain .

If the tax is 10% of approx 320k , 32k could be right though .

But I have never heard such a big amount before .

I want to go this way too , so some experienced know how would be

very appreciated by me as well .

[haroldc]

Hi,

To the best of my knowledge, immigration requires 40K per month income for the marriage-based visa extension. There is no such thing as "net" income. There is income and taxable income. Income is the amount you earn. Taxable income is the amount on which you pay tax (income - deductions).

In the case of your wife owning a business, the deduction for business expenses alone can be as high as 85%, depending on the type of business. Then there are personal deductions for both of you (30K each), children (15 or 17.5K, depending on whether they're in school), life insurance, etc. etc. On 40K income, in is easily possible that your taxable income would be well under 100K, which would make your tax amount 0.

Normally, the Revenue Department is very helpful and will help you fill out the tax forms and compute your tax for you (especially at this time of year). If they're not being helpful, get an accountant to compute your tax for you. Note: check to see if your work permit has a condition that requires you to pay a minimum amount of tax (as opposed to a having a minimum income); however, this has nothing to do with the 40K income required by Immigration.

FYI, I can read Thai fluently and have 20 years of experience with personal and corporate tax regulations in Thailand.

[tijnebijn]

Hi,

To the best of my knowledge, immigration requires 40K per month income for the marriage-based visa extension. There is no such thing as "net" income. There is income and taxable income. Income is the amount you earn. Taxable income is the amount on which you pay tax (income - deductions).

In the case of your wife owning a business, the deduction for business expenses alone can be as high as 85%, depending on the type of business. Then there are personal deductions for both of you (30K each), children (15 or 17.5K, depending on whether they're in school), life insurance, etc. etc. On 40K income, in is easily possible that your taxable income would be well under 100K, which would make your tax amount 0.

Normally, the Revenue Department is very helpful and will help you fill out the tax forms and compute your tax for you (especially at this time of year). If they're not being helpful, get an accountant to compute your tax for you. Note: check to see if your work permit has a condition that requires you to pay a minimum amount of tax (as opposed to a having a minimum income); however, this has nothing to do with the 40K income required by Immigration.

FYI, I can read Thai fluently and have 20 years of experience with personal and corporate tax regulations in Thailand.

Good informative post ,

Think the OP should try to do some more homework and perhaps get an

accountant , at least they will be able to clear all in best as possible .

Thanks for your expertise , it is much appreciated , many people( like me ) don't have a clue .

[katom]

ok , me and the wife looked and calculate again all the tax papers..

the main problem is they not allow us to fill the tax in seperate forms.

if its in seperate forms (which they not allow us as they say we married).

If we'll success to do it seperetly we'll pay even less then 17K baht.

(as to our calculations..).

Any advice?

[singa-traz]

ok , me and the wife looked and calculate again all the tax papers..

the main problem is they not allow us to fill the tax in seperate forms.

if its in seperate forms (which they not allow us as they say we married).

If we'll success to do it seperetly we'll pay even less then 17K baht.

(as to our calculations..).

Any advice?

You can fill you tax form separately,there is no such requirement from RD for married couple.

[singa-traz]

Hi,

To the best of my knowledge, immigration requires 40K per month income for the marriage-based visa extension. There is no such thing as "net" income. There is income and taxable income. Income is the amount you earn. Taxable income is the amount on which you pay tax (income - deductions).

In the case of your wife owning a business, the deduction for business expenses alone can be as high as 85%, depending on the type of business. Then there are personal deductions for both of you (30K each), children (15 or 17.5K, depending on whether they're in school), life insurance, etc. etc. On 40K income, in is easily possible that your taxable income would be well under 100K, which would make your tax amount 0.

Normally, the Revenue Department is very helpful and will help you fill out the tax forms and compute your tax for you (especially at this time of year). If they're not being helpful, get an accountant to compute your tax for you. Note: check to see if your work permit has a condition that requires you to pay a minimum amount of tax (as opposed to a having a minimum income); however, this has nothing to do with the 40K income required by Immigration.

FYI, I can read Thai fluently and have 20 years of experience with personal and corporate tax regulations in Thailand.

Good informative post ,

Think the OP should try to do some more homework and perhaps get an

accountant , at least they will be able to clear all in best as possible .

Thanks for your expertise , it is much appreciated , many people( like me ) don't have a clue .

RD has nice site in English that explain all of this:

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html

[katom]

yes I saw and read the tax website.

the only problem is what EXACTLY THE IMMIGRATION WANTS????

if its "income" so its really low tax (3000 baht).

if its income after deucation its less then 17K tax.

if its clean income/profit ( "ngen sot"/clean money) its really really really high!! we even calculate it yesterday and the 33K is not enough for 40K a month in case they want "ngen sot" its something like more then 40K.

Now the last option is unlikely to be true as its after ALL EXPENSES IN LIFE..same what left after I buy things for home,for my food everything..same money left in our hands after all expenses 40K ....impossible they want it ..

BUT .. and its a big BUT.

every immigration says something else !!!

1 immigration say "40K not about nt income" then we go there (LONG LONG WAY...) arrive wait 15 minutes the woman there says "hoooo its just 15K you need net income 40K..

so we back home.....

called korat: net income.

called bangkok: general income.

WHY ???!!

[Khutan]

Due to a stuff up by my companys law firm, I had to do my visa extension based on being married to a Thai, then extend my Work Permit. It was quite funny to turn up to Suan Phlu with my very pregnant wife and the company lawyer to go through the "Interview" and produce the relevant documentation.

When it come to the income letter from my company, they were only interested in the Gross amount, and not how much tax I paid.

I then got the 30-day "Under Consideration" and then the lawyer retuenrd on the prescribed day to get the One Year extension stamped in my passport.

I hope that is some help.

[torrenova]

There was a poster named bradford who, in Novermber last year, stated that he paid Bt2540 for the previous year's tax on 40k per month in Korat and received his extension based upon marriage. He also stated that his amphur told him to come back in 6 months and pay another Bt1270 for the six months tax. he was adamant that this was per year and not per month.

Here is the link: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...50720&st=25

Hi.... I simply went to my local amphur with my wife and said i needed to pay tax on 40k per month so i could re-new my marriage visa..... I had no papers or details, like you have shown here... the lady did everything for me... I had to pay 2,540 baht for 12 months previous and was told to now go back every 6 months and pay 1,270 baht..... she issued me with a tax paying certificate, and i returned to the immigration office and my application was accepted and approved... If you do not have a business then invent one..

I called into korat immigration office 1 month before my visa was due for re-newal to ask what was required for my re-newal... I told and showed the lady an healthy bank account and was told there would be no problems whatsoever... then on the day, they were not interested in my balance... they would not budge on any issue unless me or my wife could show we were paying tax on 40k per month... I got a bit frosty with them and said forget the marriage visa, i will have a retirement visa instead, thinking it would be less hassle and they said okay, no problem go to an amphur and show us a form from them showing you are paying tax on 65k per month............. when you try to do your extension you will see.... as for the lady at korat imm office ????? see the man next time... he does all the authorizing.... and he wiil put you straight...

Yes thats perfectly true... the reason i posted that story last year was because my wifes brother works in the immigration office in bangkok, and he told me they had a big meeting discussing this and they were putting it into force this year... I cannot understand why there is no uproar at this rule as there are many ferangs who are just retired and not 65 yet... and this could cause serious problems for thousands of ferangs here... BUT WHY WAS I TURNED AWAY WITH 8 MILLION IN MY ACCOUNT ?? Plus i also help with the tourist police.. Its just another way of getting extra money from ferangs..... But its true..... you have to show you or your wife are paying tax.... and its 40k gross... the amphur will get it as low as they can for you... and the same as i said to lopburi... go to the immigration and ask for yourself... because this stupid rule is now in force in korat...

He then became upset when badgered with questions and said he was "out of here".

At the time I was looking at the cheapest way of getting a one year visa or extension and this was by far the cheapest option. Now the maths is nearer to Bt2500 per month or Bt30k per year I admit and I do not think anyone else has been able to copy his method but it has not been disproved by someone else going to Korat or even anyone else going to an amphur and asking how they can get the extension and being told to pay tax on some ficticious income for the previous year. It could all be bullshit or it could be they mistook the annual rate of tax for a monthly amount I do not know.

It makes sense to me, in Thailand, for them to just accept some cash and issue a tax receipt. I do not know whether immigration can work out or does even care about the computations if they are presented with paperwork that states (for simplicity) income of 480k and here is the tax paid Bt2540. Perhaps Korat does not care ?

One thing that might be important is bradford's bank balance of Bt8m. If that money was on term deposit and he got say, 4% then that would equate to Bt320k income, on which he should pay tax and thus he would have to show only another 160k income on which he would pay tax. Work the figures around and it could be that he was paying income on say 450k already and he only needed to pay additional tax on 30k to make 480k per annum which could leave a bill of this 2.5k.

I wish I had some reliable information about this route from someone who has gone through the ficticious job / business and paid tax on 40k and got their extension of stay based upon marriage.

I welcome comments on the above.

[katom]

Really the only this that is not clear is What the immigration wants to see? what income?

(yes I know 40K per month but on what form..general income/income after tax/net income).

There's a big difference between these when paying tax.

I dont want to find myself paying tax AGAIN just to find out immigration will look at it and say its not enough.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Really the only this that is not clear is What the immigration wants to see? what income?

(yes I know 40K per month but on what form..general income/income after tax/net income).

There's a big difference between these when paying tax.

I dont want to find myself paying tax AGAIN just to find out immigration will look at it and say its not enough.

It just might be time to seek some professional advice ( and quickly )

[Dave the Dude]

There was a poster named bradford who, in Novermber last year, stated that he paid Bt2540 for the previous year's tax on 40k per month in Korat and received his extension based upon marriage. He also stated that his amphur told him to come back in 6 months and pay another Bt1270 for the six months tax. he was adamant that this was per year and not per month.

Here is the link: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...50720&st=25

Hi

I too investigated this method and reported my findings in the post mentioned. They were :- I/we needed to pay around 26,000b tax for one year, if income was 40k per month. As mentioned previously, the tax people were very helpful (compared to the UK!!!) and most definetly understood my/Immigration Office requirements.

I THINK bradfords post was a little unclear as to weather he meant tax paid per month or per year??

Regard

D the D

[katom]

dave, please, can you tell/scan the form (without personal information of course) of how you filled the form?

or at least tell me what the immigration are looking after in the tax form?

please . it will be very very helpfull.

[katom]

I cant believe that NOBODY knows what income the immigration wants to see..

[torrenova]

Bradford's post could not be unclear on the very point where he stated that he was asked to return in 6 months and pay Bt1270 being 50% of the Bt2540 he paid for the year. If it had been monthly then it would have been related to Bt2540 * 6. The Bt1270 can only be computed as 50% of the annual amount. It relates to nothing else.

Tax is paid twice a year in Thailand. His information seems correct apart from the amounts and I wonder if his bank showed interest from which tax had already been deducted. The Thais would compute that rate as being applicable going forward and thus assess his future year's tax at Bt2540 of which 6 months equals Bt1270.

People pissing him off and just saying that it was <deleted> forced him to flee and it is unlikely that he will come back to answer questions now. If, for some reason, Korat accepted it as really only Bt2540 per annum then we have lost the chance to prove it through that poster.

[katom]

ok new idea we have how to do the tax thing :

splitt the business for 3 occupations/kind of businesses. each one of them in seperete form.

Business A : net income 150K TAX= 50K * 10% = 5000 Baht.

Business B : net income 150K TAX= 50K * 10% = 5000 Baht.

Business C : net income 180K Tax= 80K * 10% = 8000 Baht.

Total NET YEARLY INCOME: 480K (40K * 12 months).

TOTAL TAX = 18K Baht.

[katom]

Now the question if the immigration will want to see the business registration as it will be on 1 business (have 1 permission).

?? good idea or bad idea?

[haroldc]

Hi,

You cannot file 3 tax return forms, 1 per business. You and your wife can file 1 form jointly, or 2 forms separately.

Don't try to be inventive. Go to the Revenue Department or a private accountant and either will be able to tell you whether you should file jointly or separately in order to have the smallest taxable income and thus pay the smallest amount of tax. Make copies of the form(s), file with the Revenue Department, and make copies of the tax receipt. You also can request certified copies of the tax return forms, but this may take some time.

Then go to Immigration with your copies and the original tax receipt. If your joint income (this is your income before any deductions) on the 1 joint form or the 2 separate forms is 40K per month or higher, you meet the Immigration requirement. If the Immigration officer doesn't accept your income as being sufficient, ask (politely) to speak with the supervisor. If the supervisor doesn't accept this, tell the supervisor (politely) that you would like to file an appeal. If you are familiar with Thai bureaucracy, you will know that this is what truly strikes fear into their hearts. At this point, the supervisor will usually will take the situation to his/her supervisor and the problem will be solved. If you still don't get approval, file the appeal.

[katom]

I live in a small city and no have accountant that will do that for me.

The tax are helpfull and nice but they dont know what the immigration wants.

basicly they ask me on how much I need and want to declare for the immigration .

the answer is that I dont know.

Is there somebody that go this way and can tell me on how much income he declare?

OR even better,my question is on how much he declare the SHOP/business makes a year??

as for me and my wife we saw that need to do it on 1.2 M~ makes it 33K~

that doesnt make any sense to pay this amount of money...

[fauxie]

Is it true that the tax for a Thai running an internet based business is much lower?

[Khun Jean]

Wouldn't it be more easy do do just your bookkeeping of your company and pay the appropiate tax. Be it 1000 or a 1.000.000 baht.

That way at least your company will follow the rules.

If the business not makes enough money to satisfy the immigration, well that is another problem to consider.

Is it not strange you make EXACTLY the amount you need for a visa extension. HIGHLY suspicious and in my view not a long term solution.

Edited January 6, 2008 by Khun Jean

[katom]

you can say wierd on many things in thailand but thats the way it is and it is acceptable.

The only problem is as I said..to find the most cheap way to do it .

if it will work(as for many other expats) it will be a long term solution till the rles will change/in the future after paying tax I'll be able to apply for "permanent residence"..

now-somebody have answers or what ..... ?

[Lite Beer]

I think you will find that to get permanant residence you will have to pay more tax than you want to pay.