Dowry In Rural Issan

[NovaBlue05]

These dowry/sinsod thread make for amusing albeit predictable reading. There is no right answer and no ones opinion is worth a rats derrier to anyones situation other than their own. At the end of the day, you do what feels right to you. Congrats again and good luck

What feels right to someone who's spent 6 months in Thailand after 30 years as a butcher in Bolton or a seaman in Southampton may be very differnt to someone who has spent 20 years in Buriram. Too many elder guys don't tak advice and lo and behold 1-5 years later have lost their sanity or money.

Or both!

That "businessman" from Wales who got locked up in a hut in the jungle and was half-starved to death by his beloved from Pattaya before he got out of Dodge, lost a lot more than just his sanity & money by the time he got back to the Valleys.

Musta been a cheapskate sticking to his "principles"

[oxymoron]

I married three years ago and told my prospective wife (previously married, 1 child) that I would not pay the dowry and would not spring for a big village wedding. I would take care of her in other ways.

She is now sporting ten baht in gold and we have just finished our house up-country on nearly two rai. House cost 2.2 mil.

I did sponsor the tamboon for the new house so the villagers will learn what a catch she made.

Dangerous time for you - house just finished - I hope you don't have life insurance!

Yep Neeranam he violated your 5 year rule.

[LoveDaBlues]

A bit off topic but the most foreign concept I encountered when I got married is the way she views money. In the farang world, the money you earn is for the immediate family...meaning wife & kids. She works and makes a decent salary here in the US but views it as available to the wider family....meaning us, parents and siblings. I had her set up a 401K with payroll deduct to ensure savings and she shares our bills. Anything left is for her. She could spend it all on herself but instead still sends most of it to her mother and sister back on the farm.

Hope you give your previous family, if you had one, the same treatment she gives hers.

I seen so many that take care of several thai relatives but never do anything for their previous family in farangland.

It is like the Farang family never existed.

Whats a "previous family"?

My previous.....and still current........ family here in "farangland" consist of my 84 yo mother and 3 sisters. My 3 sisters are all in as good or better shape financially than I . My mother is the real reason we are putting off moving to Thailand for now.....and the reason isn't financial. Besides, another few years will solidify my retirement target for savings and pension and I'll still only be in my early 50's. Every baht my wife sends to Isaan comes from her own earnings and provides help for her 80 yo mother and a sister who stayed on the farm to take care of mum in her old age.

Yes, 'previous family' is a very strange term. I have an Issan wife so my family has simply been extended. My mom in the States finally has a granddaughter (3 grandsons already) and is quite excited about coming to Thailand to see the baby (currently 6 weeks old).

Hey Blue look me up when you get here....I'm 51 now we are about the same age. Located in Udon Thani. Good luck with your plans.

[LoveDaBlues]

GaryA - just once can't you say something stupid so I can launch an attack lol. Once again your post is spot on.

Thanks for that but not everyone appreciates my opinion. The last guy who asked me what I thought about him building a big fancy house hasn't spoken to me since. Normally I hold my tongue and keep my mouth shut but if they ask me, I tell them.

lol - reminds me of something that happened to me about 15 years ago. I was in a local restaurant (small town) and a group of us were talking. I can't remember where the conversation went but a guy asked my opinion. I expressed it and apparently it differed with his own. He then said, "who the <deleted> wants to hear your opinion".

Off topic sorry.....

[Neeranam]

These dowry/sinsod thread make for amusing albeit predictable reading. There is no right answer and no ones opinion is worth a rats derrier to anyones situation other than their own. At the end of the day, you do what feels right to you. Congrats again and good luck

What feels right to someone who's spent 6 months in Thailand after 30 years as a butcher in Bolton or a seaman in Southampton may be very differnt to someone who has spent 20 years in Buriram. Too many elder guys don't tak advice and lo and behold 1-5 years later have lost their sanity or money.

Or both!

That "businessman" from Wales who got locked up in a hut in the jungle and was half-starved to death by his beloved from Pattaya before he got out of Dodge, lost a lot more than just his sanity & money by the time he got back to the Valleys.

It must have been good to touch the green green grass of home

Or the retired English policeman who was poisoned and found by a travelling monk.

[Captain Chaos]

if guys r not getting uni edukated virgins can someone explain to me what kind of gurls r availble to marry...lol.

hopefuly wons wot kan spel bettr than u!

[Captain Chaos]

No sinsod in my case - Mrs CC has been married before (to a Thai) and didn't see any need to have the big knees up / sinsod again - there was a bit of a barney with the now mother in law about that but Mrs CC was quite firm and wouldn't be budged. Usually she bends over backwards to take care of mum but not this time ...

Personally, wouldn't have bothered me (within reason) and they do like a good pi*s up oop north!

Anyway, there's no 'one size fits all' answer to this question - but farang hubbies to be should make sure that appropriate care is being taken to accomodate THEIR interests in this whole process, as well as copious parents, relatives, assorted hangers on, family dogs & goldfish etc etc etc

CC

[phutoie2]

In the past 2 years, I've heard many stories about Issan weddings. I've been warned by many who've left broken hearted and broke.

But I will tie the knot with a fine lady of 30, a graduate of Ubon Ratchisima University, who worked as a quality control specialist at cpk, earning 18K bhat per month, a decent salary. She's a virgin. Is that really possible? Are women like this real?

Knowing that many a farang has settled in Issan with their love, I'd appreciate your stories and advise. Especially about dowry, gold Bhat, and wedding costs. If Dad gets a dowry, is that it? Or am I expected to help the family with each "emergency"?

Maybe this issue has been discussed many times before, but I'm new to the Forum, and hope to hear some good stories. Mike

Emergencies- Yes remember this. Once you have married you are part of the family and on occaisons you will be asked for assistance.

This Saturday (12 Jan) my wifes youngest brother (25) was killed in an appalling accident on a construction site in Bangkok - he fell whilst working on the the 40th floor. My wife with the aid of a whisky bottle which I did not think was the right answer- but never mind, spent the remainder of Saturday on the telephone mobilising family & relatives to return to the family village home in Isaan.

On Sunday I drove over to Nakhon Sawan to pick up various people and then made our way to my wifes Mothers house in Sa Kao area. Much had been done before our arrival- the tents/lights and music all established and 4 days of mourning about to commence. Our pickup truck was the only vehicle in attendance, despite many people attending. I never knew my wifes family was so big. I spent the rest of Sunday collecting supplies and picking up monks from the temple for the evenings main ceremony.

Next day I took my wife and and a few relatives to the market in Sa Kaeo at 4 am for more fresh food.

I will not go in to the full details of a Thai funeral but they are not for farangs, I felt a little uncomfortable, not being Bhuddist and not understanding much of the ceremony. There appears to be no sleeping, much eating and drinking of loads of booze. Thais are also legally allowed to gamble at a funeral event!! My wife suggested I go back home to Petchabun and then return this weekend to pick her up as I would not like it.

On Monday I took my wife and her Mother to the local amphur, again some distance away to file paperwork and help my mother-in-law to claim some money for the death of one of her sons, its about 11 thousand baht, this did not go easy, as the usual pompous yellow shirted brigade that run these places again made it diificult, seemingly as her son was killed in Bangkok and not their amphur, they did not have the correct paperwork stamped and they would have to to go to the city to do this. I have never seen my wife so angry and I thought she was about to do some 'boxing' with the arrogant young girl behind the desk- who said that Thai's keep a cool heart??

Well as I was about to depart I asked my wife who was going to pay for the funeral and how much?she just gave me one of those looks!!, lets just say I discovered a whole lot more about my wife (she was the main organiser of it seemed just about everything), her family and life in an Isaan village. Her brother was a good bloke, I always had a chang with him on my visits home, he leaves twin girls and his girlfriend who all live in the family home.

I picked up the tab, not much in the great scheme of things and it made my wife happy.

All I will say about Sin sod is that I have never given anything as I married in an Amphur and not Thai style in the family home, however I will build a small house next year for my wife's parents and I often help out when visiting.

My wife has a sister who is married to a German and lives there to, he apparently wires over an amount at the beginning of each year.

[prakhonchai nick]

Emergencies- Yes remember this. Once you have married you are part of the family and on occaisons you will be asked for assistance.

This Saturday (12 Jan) my wifes youngest brother (25) was killed in an appalling accident on a construction site in Bangkok - he fell whilst working on the the 40th floor. My wife with the aid of a whisky bottle which I did not think was the right answer- but never mind, spent the remainder of Saturday on the telephone mobilising family & relatives to return to the family village home in Isaan.

On Sunday I drove over to Nakhon Sawan to pick up various people and then made our way to my wifes Mothers house in Sa Kao area. Much had been done before our arrival- the tents/lights and music all established and 4 days of mourning about to commence. Our pickup truck was the only vehicle in attendance, despite many people attending. I never knew my wifes family was so big. I spent the rest of Sunday collecting supplies and picking up monks from the temple for the evenings main ceremony.

Next day I took my wife and and a few relatives to the market in Sa Kaeo at 4 am for more fresh food.

I will not go in to the full details of a Thai funeral but they are not for farangs, I felt a little uncomfortable, not being Bhuddist and not understanding much of the ceremony. There appears to be no sleeping, much eating and drinking of loads of booze. Thais are also legally allowed to gamble at a funeral event!! My wife suggested I go back home to Petchabun and then return this weekend to pick her up as I would not like it.

On Monday I took my wife and her Mother to the local amphur, again some distance away to file paperwork and help my mother-in-law to claim some money for the death of one of her sons, its about 11 thousand baht, this did not go easy, as the usual pompous yellow shirted brigade that run these places again made it diificult, seemingly as her son was killed in Bangkok and not their amphur, they did not have the correct paperwork stamped and they would have to to go to the city to do this. I have never seen my wife so angry and I thought she was about to do some 'boxing' with the arrogant young girl behind the desk- who said that Thai's keep a cool heart??

Well as I was about to depart I asked my wife who was going to pay for the funeral and how much?she just gave me one of those looks!!, lets just say I discovered a whole lot more about my wife (she was the main organiser of it seemed just about everything), her family and life in an Isaan village. Her brother was a good bloke, I always had a chang with him on my visits home, he leaves twin girls and his girlfriend who all live in the family home.

I picked up the tab, not much in the great scheme of things and it made my wife happy.

All I will say about Sin sod is that I have never given anything as I married in an Amphur and not Thai style in the family home, however I will build a small house next year for my wife's parents and I often help out when visiting.

My wife has a sister who is married to a German and lives there to, he apparently wires over an amount at the beginning of each year.

My condolences to you and your family on your tragic loss. One would imagine if it happened in the West the employer would not only have to foot the bill for the funeral, but would have to pay massive compensation as well.

The vast quantities of booze consumed, the apparent light heartedness of the "wake" and the gambling which occurs each evening (usually all night) are very strange by western standards, and I think your wife made the right decision in suggesting that you depart until the funeral proper. These things are very difficult for many of us to understand, my own feeling being that it is totally disrespectful to drink and gamble on such an occasion. I have actually heard of accounts of the coffin itself being used as a card table!

As you rightfully said, once married you are part of the whole family, and the one they normally turn too for financial assistance in such times. I can't help but wonder though, had you paid out a large dowry when you married as some others seem to do, would you would have had enough money left to help out this time.

[MISTERBONK]

The origins of dowries here in Thailand began with the upper classes, and was a way for the man to show the girls family that he could give the new wife a lifestyle at least as good as that she had previously received. Money was shown, but never kept.

Interesting information, which I hear for the first time.

Where did you get it?

I would be very much interested in the source of this information.

Best regards

Thedi

This article may well be the one Iambabababor was referring to when mentioning the origins of dowries. It is very lengthy, interesting, and at the end of the day everyone must form their own opinion

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Reader/reader2172.htm The Case Against Sin Soht - And Other Reasons Not To Give Thai Women Money

[BillyDeno]

In the past 2 years, I've heard many stories about Issan weddings. I've been warned by many who've left broken hearted and broke.

But I will tie the knot with a fine lady of 30, a graduate of Ubon Ratchisima University, who worked as a quality control specialist at cpk, earning 18K bhat per month, a decent salary. She's a virgin. Is that really possible? Are women like this real?

Knowing that many a farang has settled in Issan with their love, I'd appreciate your stories and advise. Especially about dowry, gold Bhat, and wedding costs. If Dad gets a dowry, is that it? Or am I expected to help the family with each "emergency"?

Maybe this issue has been discussed many times before, but I'm new to the Forum, and hope to hear some good stories. Mike

I payed dowry 105'000bht and gold for my wife nice village girl. I woud'nt care what anyone thinks if you want you pay dowry as respect, to her family. If I had more I would have given it. You love her then ask her how much she will help you to sort out with her parents what you can afford.I was only asked for half of what I payed. I just wanted my wife and her parents to be happy.

[Lickey]

I have lived in our village full time for 20 months now, and in that time 2 girls have got married twice, to falangs, they go back to euroupe to work and the other falang comes to visit, and they both send money to her family, it goes much deeper than a dowry issue, you have got to know and trust your thai girl and family,

[Globeliner]

I have lived in our village full time for 20 months now, and in that time 2 girls have got married twice, to falangs, they go back to euroupe to work and the other falang comes to visit, and they both send money to her family, it goes much deeper than a dowry issue, you have got to know and trust your thai girl and family,

Words of wisdom. Is there a conclusion to this dowry situation?

If she loves you, she loves you for who you are. Trust? EH EH EH. No money should change hands whether it's expected or not. I would quite openly refuse to marry any Thai girl should it be forced upon me to show money to impress the next door neighbours! Keep it real gentlemen!

[Jamie]

I will be giving 300K. I've given 100K, family will get other 200K when we come back to Thailand for the marriage. The 100K was a good faith thing. I'm 31 and she's 24. Too much? Wasn't for me. She didn't come up with the number, I did.

[MISTERBONK]

If she loves you, she loves you for who you are. . I would quite openly refuse to marry any Thai girl should it be forced upon me to show money to impress the next door neighbours! Keep it real gentlemen!

I will be giving 300K.

Two contrasting views. We know nothing about Jamie's fiancee, but 300K is a vast amount, especially considering Thai average wages are around 5% of those in the West.

Would a Thai man pay the same amount? Would he be able to pay so much? Would he be expected to pay so much? The answer is probably No to each. Unless the girl is a hi-so, an academic,or something similar, a sum probably less than 100K would be agreed upon.

I wonder whether Jamie has on previous visits to Thailand visited any national parks, private tourist attractions, or ridden in baht buses/taxis all of which charge foreigners more than the Thais - sometimes 10 times more! How did he feel about that? Does this happen to foreigners visiting Wisconsin? Unlikely since in most Western countries it is a criminal offence to charge foreigners more.

If Jamie is happy to pay 300K that's fine.It's his money after all. But would he have paid anything had he married an American girl? Let him be aware that it is likely much more than the Thai price. Furthermore let him spare a thought for any Westerner coming after him and wanting to marry a girl from the same neighbourhood. 300K will now be the minimum amount any self respecting Thai family will want and any lower offers will likely be viewed with resentment and loss of face. What would the neighbours think!

As Globeliner said Keep it real gentlemen!

[siamesekitty]

a couple of recent Thai weddings I've known of personally:

Hi-so girl marrying medium-so guy - 500K given by groom's family, received and kept by bride's family. However, I believe the bride's family took care of the wedding.

Upper middle class guy & girl - 200K or 300K, not sure who got to keep it (think it was for shown only)

[bergen]

I’ve been to 2 Isaan weddings this week, not including any farangs, only poor farmers.

In the first wedding, both man and woman in their late 20’s had been married before.

Sin sot 30.000, half in cash, half in gold was raised by the grooms parents.

In the second, the bride and groom where 19 years of age, so first time marriage for both.

No sin sot was asked for by the brides single mother, never the less 20.000 cash and 15000 in gold was paid by the grooms parents.

None of the involved was planning to register in the amphoe, as they thought this would only complicate the marriage.

My wife and I married in an office in Bkk. We then lived in Norway for 2 years without me having met her parents. When we moved to Thailand, father in law had died, and when asked if she wanted a Buddha wedding, mother in law replied – up to you – so we never had any, and I have never been asked for any money!

[Lickey]

We get lots of invites to weddings, my GF is well known in the local society, thai + thai weddings i will go to, but falang + thai i dont like so much, especially if the falang has to go home to work to send money ect, and then the thai girls family say 'oh, that was easy money,find another falang', ,,,,,,

But to give 100kbht as a gift then pay 300kbht dowry, then im sure she will be faithfull to you, well, till your money runs out i suppose, on the other hand, if you are sure about this girl and her family, i wish you all the happiness in the world, Cheers, Lickey,,

[Jamie]

We get lots of invites to weddings, my GF is well known in the local society, thai + thai weddings i will go to, but falang + thai i dont like so much, especially if the falang has to go home to work to send money ect, and then the thai girls family say 'oh, that was easy money,find another falang', ,,,,,,

But to give 100kbht as a gift then pay 300kbht dowry, then im sure she will be faithfull to you, well, till your money runs out i suppose, on the other hand, if you are sure about this girl and her family, i wish you all the happiness in the world, Cheers, Lickey,,

The typical comment that all Thai women are scammers. I set the price, and I am more than happy. She was upset with me and her family for even bringing up sinsot. She is well educated and has a good job.

[Globeliner]

We get lots of invites to weddings, my GF is well known in the local society, thai + thai weddings i will go to, but falang + thai i dont like so much, especially if the falang has to go home to work to send money ect, and then the thai girls family say 'oh, that was easy money,find another falang', ,,,,,,

But to give 100kbht as a gift then pay 300kbht dowry, then im sure she will be faithfull to you, well, till your money runs out i suppose, on the other hand, if you are sure about this girl and her family, i wish you all the happiness in the world, Cheers, Lickey,,

What you on about?

Cheers

[Lickey]

We get lots of invites to weddings, my GF is well known in the local society, thai + thai weddings i will go to, but falang + thai i dont like so much, especially if the falang has to go home to work to send money ect, and then the thai girls family say 'oh, that was easy money,find another falang', ,,,,,,

But to give 100kbht as a gift then pay 300kbht dowry, then im sure she will be faithfull to you, well, till your money runs out i suppose, on the other hand, if you are sure about this girl and her family, i wish you all the happiness in the world, Cheers, Lickey,,

The typical comment that all Thai women are scammers. I set the price, and I am more than happy. She was upset with me and her family for even bringing up sinsot. She is well educated and has a good job.

So why start the post in the first place if you are so sure? and the family talked about sinsot? so you have a money oreintated family, like i said, good luck to you..

[Globeliner]

We get lots of invites to weddings, my GF is well known in the local society, thai + thai weddings i will go to, but falang + thai i dont like so much, especially if the falang has to go home to work to send money ect, and then the thai girls family say 'oh, that was easy money,find another falang', ,,,,,,

But to give 100kbht as a gift then pay 300kbht dowry, then im sure she will be faithfull to you, well, till your money runs out i suppose, on the other hand, if you are sure about this girl and her family, i wish you all the happiness in the world, Cheers, Lickey,,

The typical comment that all Thai women are scammers. I set the price, and I am more than happy. She was upset with me and her family for even bringing up sinsot. She is well educated and has a good job.

So why start the post in the first place if you are so sure? and the family talked about sinsot? so you have a money oreintated family, like i said, good luck to you..

The moral of the storey, don't pay for a wife.

[Jamie]

We get lots of invites to weddings, my GF is well known in the local society, thai + thai weddings i will go to, but falang + thai i dont like so much, especially if the falang has to go home to work to send money ect, and then the thai girls family say 'oh, that was easy money,find another falang', ,,,,,,

But to give 100kbht as a gift then pay 300kbht dowry, then im sure she will be faithfull to you, well, till your money runs out i suppose, on the other hand, if you are sure about this girl and her family, i wish you all the happiness in the world, Cheers, Lickey,,

The typical comment that all Thai women are scammers. I set the price, and I am more than happy. She was upset with me and her family for even bringing up sinsot. She is well educated and has a good job.

So why start the post in the first place if you are so sure? and the family talked about sinsot? so you have a money oreintated family, like i said, good luck to you..

I didn't start the post. Perhaps you should ask the OP why he did. Thank you for the well wishes. I appreciate them.

[ozzydom]

I paid nothing for mine and she has been worth every baht of it.

[geriatrickid]

I've been following this thread and really am wondering if I live in a different world. Here comes Mr. falang who is willing to take a daughter off an impoverished family's hands and probably be around to help out once he gets to know the family. And yet Mr. falang is expected to pay for the privilige of doing all this? Yes, I know it is a custom in some areas, but if the girl truly loved her man, wouldn't she marry him all the same? I'm not saying this to stir up sh*t but it's just not logical. How many of you make cracks about old guys that take up with young wives in the west, like Anna Nicole Smith did with that 90 year old? At the end of the transaction it really isn't any different. If the girl won't marry a guy because he won't cough up the money, does he really lose out? I'd think it's the girl that loses.

[bergen]

I've been following this thread and really am wondering if I live in a different world. Here comes Mr. falang who is willing to take a daughter off an impoverished family's hands and probably be around to help out once he gets to know the family. And yet Mr. falang is expected to pay for the privilige of doing all this? Yes, I know it is a custom in some areas, but if the girl truly loved her man, wouldn't she marry him all the same? I'm not saying this to stir up sh*t but it's just not logical. How many of you make cracks about old guys that take up with young wives in the west, like Anna Nicole Smith did with that 90 year old? At the end of the transaction it really isn't any different. If the girl won't marry a guy because he won't cough up the money, does he really lose out? I'd think it's the girl that loses.

Remember, ..............we are talking about old traditions, and Thai logic, which may not be easily understood by farangs all the time

Edited January 21, 2008 by bergen

[siamesekitty]

and words like "transaction", "buy" clearly show the farang mentality..

I guess some of you guys just won't get it..

[Gary A]

and words like "transaction", "buy" clearly show the farang mentality..

I guess some of you guys just won't get it..

SOME farangs are paranoid and refuse to see how things work. For those paranoid types, I'd strongly suggest that you forget about Thai wife and find a wife who shares your PROPER customs.

[MISTERBONK]

SOME farangs are paranoid and refuse to see how things work. For those paranoid types, I'd strongly suggest that you forget about Thai wife and find a wife who shares your PROPER customs.

I'm sure we can all see how things work. Otherwise we wouldn't be expressing our various views. Being paranoid does not enter into it. Who is to say our customs are more PROPER than those which you eschew. Do we foreigners adopt all the other customs and traditions of the Thai people. Do we chew betel nut? Do we wear a dirty cloth around our nether regions when we go out? Do we change our religious beliefs (if we have any) to Buddhism once we settle here? The answer is most certainly NO. So why should we so readily accept the custom of paying a dowry, one which is usually several times higher than it would be if a Thai man were marrying our woman? Some of you will and some won't. That's normal.

Wanting to spend ones time with a woman, someone whom you love is quite normal without her family coming along and demanding payment to enable you to carry on. That's just one big scam - regardless of whether a Thai or foreigner is involved. We know that it is the custom here -it's tradition, but that doesn't make it PROPER!

Do those who are quite happy to pay to buy their wives have more money than those who don't? Is money meaningless to them? Is it just a drop in the ocean? Some of us have worked hard to get what we have, and now want to share it with our ideal woman. If we are forced to hand over most of our savings at the outset, the quality of our married life will inevitibly be lower.

It would be interesting to know what the success rate is for Thai/foreign marriages where the man has refused to pay any dowry, yet managed to marry his woman. I would have a guess it is higher that those who just hand over whatever is asked for. Most of the hard luck stories we read about on TV and other web sites involve men who have lost everything - dowries, land, houses vehicles etc.When a dowry is paid and the foreigner returns to his country to work for more money to look after his family, how many wives back home take up with a Thai man? I know of many, and when the relationship comes to light and the marriage is over, does he get his dowry back??

[blizzard]

it works like this. paying a dowry is purchasing th e rights to a monthly stipend payable to same girls family. at least family know you are willing to take it on the chin, so to speak. only marrying farang has these rights..................lol. im just kidding.

my logic is man should be paid to take these maiden s off people who can ill afford them. just from a financial point of view

Edited January 22, 2008 by blizzard