Are You A Sexpat Or Do You Ride The Backwards Morality Train?

[scorecard]

27 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Sucked in one more time, you,re too easy.lol."Come in spinner"! 

 

Agree. He makes so many assumptions with nothing to support them.

[KhunHeineken]

9 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Agree. He makes so many assumptions with nothing to support them.

You continually to refuse to answer the absolute simplest question put to you.  That is, which pension are you on? 

 

A Vet's pension, or the Aged pension.  You have posted like you receive both, and you can't.  

 

So, go on the record.  What pension are you on?  Simple question, really. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/25/2024 at 3:19 AM, 4MyEgo said:

I would think there would be a question or more in the application form, e.g. have you resided overseas in the last 12 months, if yes, for how long, etc, etc, etc, then I would imagine if you answered no, they would do a check with border control, then your busted.

 

But, they would never check for tax residency purposes, right? 

 

On 9/25/2024 at 3:19 AM, 4MyEgo said:

Why do you think that they have the 2 year rule, it's there to stop people returning to claim the OAP and F off again.

Yes, and a lot of members are unhappy with it, but you can see the tax payers point, right? 

 

On 9/25/2024 at 3:19 AM, 4MyEgo said:

Anyone good with math who doesn't want to live in a caravan or a depressing room for those 2 years, knows the cost on rent doesn't really recoup those 2 years, especially if living in Sydney where a one bedroom unit will set you back more than the OAP.

Only for those who have burnt their bridges back in Australia. 

 

The old golden rule, don't put anything into Thailand you are not prepared to lose.  Many sold up and moved their life saving here, now can't even afford to live in Australia for 2 years. 

 

Guess what, many Aussie expats have kept a property to go back to in Australia, either for their 2 years pension portability phase, or for a serious injury / illness, and even end of life.  

 

Not everyone has sold up back in Australia and moved it all to Thailand / Issan.   

 

Many have planned ahead for their 2 years come pension age, and beyond.  If you didn't, why whinge here? 

Edited September 29 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/25/2024 at 3:49 AM, 4MyEgo said:

 

https://www.etax.com.au/aged-pension/

 

Can you show me. ANYWHERE, in that link where it mentions living overseas, full time?  

 

I did like this part though:

 

" Please Note: The information in the above blog post is general in nature and should not be relied upon as detailed advice that applies to everyone. Each person’s individual circumstances will decide whether or not they need to lodge a tax return."

 

Here's the non resident tax bracket.

 

The pension is deemed an income. 

 

The pension is taxable. 

 

You WILL BE outside of Australia for 183 days, thus, a non resident for tax purposes. 

 

Do you see $0 to $135,000? 

 

Can you post a link, from anywhere, showing a old age pensioner does not have to pay non resident tax?  

 

Foreign resident tax rates 2024–25

Taxable income	Tax on this income
0 – $135,000	30c for each $1

[Nemises]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, go on the record.  What pension are you on?  Simple question, really. 

This thread is about the Aus OAP. As for me: I’m soon to (hopefully) obtain the OAP hence my appreciation for the useful information posted by members who have already obtained the OAP or who, like me, are hoping to soon obtain the OAP. 
 

I notice you dominate the posts on here. Most of them (your posts) are either disputed or ignored, as a number of members have black-listed you.
 

So speaking of simple questions, are you on the OAP now or soon to be on the OAP, which one? 
 

 

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Nemises said:

This thread is about the Aus OAP. As for me: I’m soon to (hopefully) obtain the OAP hence my appreciation for the useful information posted by members who have already obtained the OAP or who, like me, are hoping to soon obtain the OAP. 
 

I notice you dominate the posts on here. Most of them (your posts) are either disputed or ignored, as a number of members have black-listed you.
 

So speaking of simple questions, are you on the OAP now or soon to be on the OAP, which one? 
 

 

Firstly, the question was not put to you. 

 

The question was put to the member Scorecard, who, at various stages has posted he is on a Vet's pension, and then at other stages, has posted he's on the old aged pension, and how kind the Centerlink call center staff are when he makes inquiries about it.  He's also posted a lot about portability, something Vet's don't have a problem with.  In fact, I know a few Vet's in Thailand and had some brief discussions with them about it. 

 

I specifically remember him posting his 2 year stay in Australia for portability was in a Vet's village, and how easy the 2 years was for him because it.

 

So, he's either a Vet, on a Vet's pension, or he's not. 

 

I called him out on it a while ago, and his reply was, "You are on my ignore list."   Funny that.  So, I, and others, smelt BS.  

 

Yet, he has never gone on the record as to, exactly, just what pension he's on, because they are VERY different pensions, with VERY different entitlements.

 

I have posted before I am not on an aged pension.  Posted it months ago. No secret. 

 

I have also posted before I will not receive an aged pension, without shifting assets, and my accountant working some magic.  All legal, of course.  I have no problem admitting after working and paying a lot of tax, I do feel somewhat "entitled" when that day comes. 

 

My post count on this thread is high because a long time ago I got wind of the proposed changes to Australia's 90 year old tax residency laws.  I'm sure you have seen them. 

 

Basically, just like Thailand, Australia is looking to change to a physical presence and time based model, from a "domiciled" model.  

 

I posted those changes and got an avalanche of crazy reasons why it will never happen.  Everything from Paul Hogan, to having a Medicare Card, even Albo has been voted in, so it's never going to happen.  

 

I replied to every serious post, and also every personal attack, baiting, flame, troll, abusive, hate, ridicule etc post, thus, a high post count.  Also got sent on a posting holiday.  

 

As I have said, the proposed changes are the single biggest issue facing members reading this thread, and I stand by that. 

 

What's there to talk about in relation to portability?  Do tell?  It's been done to death. 

 

There was a lot of debate, but at the end of the day, what was established was:

 

1)  The pension is deemed an income.

 

2)  The pension is taxable.

 

3)  Someone who is living in Thailand WILL BE deemed a non resident when the proposed changes are passed.  Many already are anyway, including myself. 

 

4)  The proposed changes have no means testing, thresholds, or exemptions in them.  

 

5)  Non resident tax is 30% from $0 to $135,000.  

 

Members still believe there's nothing to worry about, and that's fine.  I'm just interested in why, with some more substance to their post other than Hoges, Medicare Cards, and Albo.  

 

Indeed, the psychology behind not wanting to consider the possibility these changes will have any impact, whatsoever, was also discussed.  

 

You see, pensioners may get an increase, but the pensioners back home are going backwards.  Eg. electricity, gas, water, rates, food, petrol etc etc.  Nothing that we care about here, because it's cheap living, but the government, who is in record debt, may just want a piece of the non resident tax pie, and that could include pensioners, possibly as collateral damage.  

 

Yet, no one wants to put the jigsaw puzzle with the five things above together to even think it's possible.  

 

We already know Immigration inform Centerlink after 6 weeks out, so supplements are cut off.  Is putting the ATO in that loop such a giant step forward that is too far for a computer to do????

 

The Brit expats get their pension frozen when they leave.  Maybe Australia wants to tax pensions.  Same Same, but different.  Who knows?  

 

What I do know is times are changing, Australia is in record debt, and chasing every dollar they can get.  

 

Members posted, "they will not target pensioners."  I never said expat pensioners will be "targeted."  All I have ever said is they very well may be collateral damage.  

Members posted, "pensioners will be up in arms."  I asked, who went to the Embassy in Bangkok last election and voted.  No reply.  So why would pensioners in Australia give a sh*t about pensioners living it up in Thailand and Bali etc?  

 

So, to summarize, there's been a lot of funny posts put forward why it will not / can not happen, but little in the way of substance as to why, hence, one more post to my count on this thread.     

 

Now, if you can post a reason why all the above five things WILL NOT line up to cause pensioners ANY grief at all, I'm all eyes. 

Edited September 29 by KhunHeineken

[Nemises]

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

 I am not on an aged pension.  

 

 I will not receive an aged pension

That’s all I wanted to know. Didn’t bother reading anything else …and won’t in the future…just like all the other members. 

[KhunHeineken]

1 minute ago, Nemises said:

That’s all I wanted to know. Didn’t bother reading anything else …and won’t in the future…just like all the other members. 

I have no problem with that.

 

Feel free to put me on your ignore list. 

 

It makes it easier for those who want to seriously discuss the issue. 

 

Funny thing is though, YOU are not on the aged pension either.  

[scorecard]

12 minutes ago, Nemises said:

That’s all I wanted to know. Didn’t bother reading anything else …and won’t in the future…just like all the other members. 

K.Heinekin just posted a long comment about me. As usual full of mistakes. Just one example, Aussies war vets receiving a permanent disability compensation payment can elect to have the compensation payment automatically transferred to a thai bank. I've been doing that for many years.

[KhunHeineken]

7 minutes ago, scorecard said:

K.Heinekin just posted a long comment about me. As usual full of mistakes. Just one example, Aussies war vets receiving a permanent disability compensation payment can elect to have the compensation payment automatically transferred to a thai bank. I've been doing that for many years.

Can you quote me where I have said any other that????  Banks accounts and automatic transfers.  Huh???? 

 

Go on the record. 

 

What pension are you on????

Edited September 29 by KhunHeineken

[Nemises]

37 minutes ago, scorecard said:

K.Heinekin just posted a long comment about me. As usual full of mistakes.

The guy has no intention of ever going on the OAP. So do what others have done…give him no oxygen. 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Nemises said:

The guy has no intention of ever going on the OAP. So do what others have done…give him no oxygen. 

Already on my ignore list for some time.

[Captain Flack]

I have removed a couple of bickering posts about reporting others.

 

It is not my role to censor opinions, if you disagree then debate in the topic, as the report button is not to score points against other or for use as a threat in the discussion.

[ElwoodP]

Reported post removed along with the post inviting it. Calling someone a troll will understandably bring a negative response.

@Lacessit don't do it!

[Nemises]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

For someone who is not on the Age Pension …

 

Why would one even bother posting on this topic…

Probably out of jealousy... “If I can’t get this free money, than I’ll harass and spread fear (taxes, DTA etc) amongst those that do”

[Pattaya57]

44 minutes ago, Nemises said:

Probably out of jealousy... “If I can’t get this free money, than I’ll harass and spread fear (taxes, DTA etc) amongst those that do”

I think he's just delusional. He actually thinks proposed tax rules are valid and that the ATO is going to set up an international task force to catch a few old pensioners living in Thailand on aged pension 😉

[Will27]

14 minutes ago, Pattaya57 said:

I think he's just delusional. He actually thinks proposed tax rules are valid and that the ATO is going to set up an international task force to catch a few old pensioners living in Thailand on aged pension 😉

Also apparently thinks Immigration will send the ATO every movement in and out of Australia of its citizens/residents so they can check residency status.

 

That would be a small job........

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

I think he's just delusional. He actually thinks proposed tax rules are valid and that the ATO is going to set up an international task force to catch a few old pensioners living in Thailand on aged pension 😉

 

Could be true but he's ignoring that:

 

- Aussies can have their OAP transferred directly from C'link to a bank account in Thailand or any country by international bank transfer, instantaneous transfer and the banking costs are extremely small. e.g. 120Baht.

- The funds are not subject to tax or checking by the Aust Tax office.

- There is no checking by the ATO re resident / non-resident   /   six months here / six months there.

- Thai personal taxation provides several allowances which reduce the annual taxable amount and if the person is 80 year old or more the annual taxable amount is very low, especially if the person has no other income and in fact there's no Thai tax payable. 

- The final taxable amount in Thailand is not checked e resident / non-resident   /   six months here / six months there. 

 

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Will27 said:

Also apparently thinks Immigration will send the ATO every movement in and out of Australia of its citizens/residents so they can check residency status.

 

That would be a small job........

 Actually the checking of movements is computerized. there's a live 24/7 link between Australia immigration and C'link, every passport entry is advised automatically by the live link to C.link.

 

If it matches a passport number in the OAP records then an entry 'out' / 'in' goes automatically onto the C'link file for that person. 

 

All online, always up to date. 

 

I asked a few years ago if there's any similar online link between Immigration and the ATO.  The answer was strongly 'NO, because that would be breaking the law'.

 

Edited September 30 by scorecard

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/30/2024 at 10:12 AM, scorecard said:

 Actually the checking of movements is computerized. there's a live 24/7 link between Australia immigration and C'link, every passport entry is advised automatically by the live link to C.link.

 

If it matches a passport number in the OAP records then an entry 'out' / 'in' goes automatically onto the C'link file for that person. 

 

All online, always up to date. 

 

I asked a few years ago if there's any similar online link between Immigration and the ATO.  The answer was strongly 'NO, because that would be breaking the law'.

 

That's why the laws are changing. 

 

Like I have said in the past, Centerlink is the payer, and can also be the taxer / withholder.  Computers will do it all.  

 

It already happens when a pensioner is outside of Australia for 6 weeks.  Supplements are cut off.  No giant leap forward to withhold 30% non resident tax, in the same way the supplements are cut off. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/30/2024 at 10:08 AM, scorecard said:

Aussies can have their OAP transferred directly from C'link to a bank account in Thailand or any country by international bank transfer, instantaneous transfer and the banking costs are extremely small. e.g. 120Baht.

Yes, but what is the relevancy of this comment?  You will still be able to have it transferred, but it MAY be 30% less money. 

 

On 9/30/2024 at 10:08 AM, scorecard said:

The funds are not subject to tax or checking by the Aust Tax office

That's because many people are using the "domiciled" and "intention" loop hole.  That loop hole will close when the new laws are passed. 

 

On 9/30/2024 at 10:08 AM, scorecard said:

There is no checking by the ATO re resident / non-resident   /   six months here / six months there.

The proposed changes are exactly that, 183 days in or out.  Once again, you are talking about the current situation, not the proposed changes. 

 

On 9/30/2024 at 10:08 AM, scorecard said:

Thai personal taxation provides several allowances which reduce the annual taxable amount and if the person is 80 year old or more the annual taxable amount is very low, especially if the person has no other income and in fact there's no Thai tax payable. 

Losing 30% of your Aussie pension, the Thai tax is the least of your problems. 

 

On 9/30/2024 at 10:08 AM, scorecard said:

The final taxable amount in Thailand is not checked e resident / non-resident   /   six months here / six months there. 

Once again, 30% is a lot of tax.  Thai tax is nothing compared to what Australia MAY be finally able to tax you as a non tax resident in the future.

 

Times, and laws, are changing.

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/30/2024 at 6:45 AM, Will27 said:

Also apparently thinks Immigration will send the ATO every movement in and out of Australia of its citizens/residents so they can check residency status.

 

That would be a small job........

No, just your total number of days in / out within a financial year. 

 

Thai immigration know it, that's why it's called "overstay" if you go over, yet, YOU seem to think Australia is incapable of having a computer data base that can do the same. 

[Will27]

19 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

No, just your total number of days in / out within a financial year. 

 

Thai immigration know it, that's why it's called "overstay" if you go over, yet, YOU seem to think Australia is incapable of having a computer data base that can do the same. 

 

Looks like I will have to be like the vast majority on here and put you on ignore.

 

Or better still, the mods could actually do their jobs and ban you as you really just ruin every thread you post in.

Edited 6 hours ago by Will27

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/16/2024 at 1:50 AM, Lacessit said:

 

 

You may notice when KH posts a comment on one of my posts, he does not get any response from me.

 

What's the best way to deal with a troll? Don't give them any oxygen whatsoever.

At one point, not so long ago, I counted that your last 20 consecutive posts were nothing on topic, and were all just personal attacks, trolling, flaming, baiting etc of me.  I gave up counting after 20 posts.  I did post about it at the time. 

 

There was no new content from you.  No discussion. No links etc.  Nothing. 

 

It seems that you are starving yourself of more oxygen than me. Keep up the good work.   

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, Will27 said:

 

Looks like I will have to be like the vast majority on here and put you on ignore.

 

Or better still, the mods could actually do their jobs and ban you as you really just ruin every thread you post in.

So, now not only are you personally attacking me, but also the Mods. 

 

What forum rules have I breached? 

 

By all means, put me on "ignore."  I have actually requested members to do so in the past.  It allows those who want to discuss what very well may be the single biggest issue facing Aussie expat pensioners in decades, and you want to shut down the discussion because it's too painful to even consider the possibility of losing 30% of your pension.  

 

No one wants to read about the possibility that their government is going to start taxing them, or tax them more.  The solution on this forum was to shoot the messenger, which was me. 

 

Every possible reason for why it would never happen was put forward by members.  Reasons ranged from "That's just for guys like Paul Hogan" to "I still have a Medicare Card so I am still a tax resident."  There was also, "Albo and the new Labor government would never do it." 

 

Everyone was looking for reasons why it would not happen, whilst they should have been looking at reasons why it could happen. 

 

Of course, links were posted, from credible sources, many of them government websites, and not just from myself, but also others, that showed the main issues. 

 

They are, and continue to be, if you are outside of Australia for 183 days, you will be deemed a non resident for tax purposes.  There is no tax free threshold in the non resident tax brackets.  The pension is deemed to be an income.  The pension is taxable.  There is no exemption for old age pensions in the proposed changes. The DTA covers "Government Pensions" and an old age Centerlink pension is not a government service pension.   Tell me what is incorrect with these issues, and provide some links. 

 

The DTA got put forward, which has also been shown that there are still reasons to be concerned. 

 

Still, the personal attacks and trolling not only continued, but many jumped on the band wagon, like teenage sheeples on social media. 

 

It's the members, such as yourself, and posts like this one, that ruins a thread. 

 

Do everyone a favor and place me on ignore. 

 

There are many members that want to give some consideration, and discuss options, surrounding the proposed changes to non resident tax.  Indeed, one small loop hole seems to be doing 46 days in Australia every 3 years.  This was discussed, even while members such as yourself continued to be in denial. 

 

Posts like yours offer zero content to the forum. 

 

What do you think should be discussed?  Portability?  It's been done to death. Anything else?  How about the phone number for Centerlink from overseas.  Important information that. 

 

For me, the funny thing is, Thailand appears to soon be enforcing the physical presence and time based tax resident model.  Many members who personally attack me accept this from Thailand, but in no way do they accept Australia implementing the same in the near future.  It's laughable. 

 

Really, it can be summed up very simply.  Aussie expat pensioners want to remain a tax resident of Australia to avail themselves of the tax free threshold, whilst living in Thailand full time, yet no member has put forward how they are going to get around immigration knowing they are outside of Australia for 183 days a year, thus, a non resident for tax purposes.  

 

Many pensioners believe, or need to believe, they, and their pension, are a protected species.  Where does this idea come from?  It's certainly not in the laws.   

Edited 2 hours ago by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/30/2024 at 6:27 AM, Pattaya57 said:

I think he's just delusional. He actually thinks proposed tax rules are valid and that the ATO is going to set up an international task force to catch a few old pensioners living in Thailand on aged pension 😉

Never posted such a thing.

 

The proposed changes are still just that, proposed, but the previous Liberal government had them drafted, which you would only do if serious about it, and the current Labor government is still running with them.  They were never "binned" nor voted against when put to parliament.

 

This means, when either party does eventually put them to parliament, they will have bipartisan support, so will sail through and be legislated. 

 

Your joke about an international task force was just that, an narrow minded joke. 

 

Nothing international about it, except for the geographic location of a non resident for tax purposes, which is outside of Australia for 183 days. 

 

Computer data bases will do it all.  Interpol is not going to knock on your door in Thailand and hand you a tax bill, if that's the joke you are cracking. 

 

In the same way supplements are cut off after 6 weeks, even though you didn't tell Centerlink you are going overseas, what makes you think they can not / will not take a 30% non resident slice of the pension?  Where do you get the confidence from that it will NEVER happen?  Post some links. 

 

The pension is not protected under any laws from non resident tax.  If it is, post the links. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/30/2024 at 5:38 AM, Nemises said:

Probably out of jealousy... “If I can’t get this free money, than I’ll harass and spread fear (taxes, DTA etc) amongst those that do”

Hardly. 

 

I have already have many consultations with my accountant about restructuring my finances to qualify for the aged pension when the time comes.  Nothing illegal. 

 

After years of working and paying a lot of tax, I have no problem admitting I feel some sense of entitlement. 

 

I may jump on the "free money" band wagon in the future.  What you refuse to even consider, is the possibility of the "free money" being 30% less than in the past, because you are not living in Australia, yet, post reasoning or links to suggest otherwise. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/29/2024 at 8:39 PM, scorecard said:

K.Heinekin just posted a long comment about me. As usual full of mistakes. Just one example, Aussies war vets receiving a permanent disability compensation payment can elect to have the compensation payment automatically transferred to a thai bank. I've been doing that for many years.

It was not a long comment about you.  I just pointed out that you have previously posted you are on a Vet's pension, and have also posted that you are on an old age pension.  You can not be on both pensions, something that you still refuse to clarify. 

 

As far as money being deposited into a Thai bank account, show me where I mentioned it in my post.  I know this happens.  I have many GENUINE Vet friends here.  That's how they get their pension here.  It's no secret.   

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/29/2024 at 7:21 AM, scorecard said:

 

Agree. He makes so many assumptions with nothing to support them.

When you say you are on a Vet's pension, I don't assume it, because you posted it.

 

When you say you are on an old age pension, I don't assume it, because you posted it.

 

Now, we all know you can't be on both pensions, so there's no assumption about me calling you out on it, and rather than explain it to members, or clarify your situation, your deflection is, "You are on my ignore list."