Australian Aged Pension

[Lacessit]

20 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

It is not a government site listed, but an Indian College, Centrelink have stated there are no changes 

 

 

You have to admit it is very convincing.

 

Question - for what purpose?

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, RJRS1301 said:

It is not a government site listed, but an Indian College, Centrelink have stated there are no changes 

 

 

Interesting.

[KhunHeineken]

7 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

There's an Australian guy living long term in Chiang Mai who is officially authorized to countersign many documents from numerous Australian Gov't agencies and non government entities. I've used his service several times, accepted (in my case) by C'Link, the Oz DVA, Oz banks. 

 

He won't accept any payment or gifts.

 

You need to contact him and make an appointment (last time I met him at a coffee shop inside Big C Extra on the superhighway).

 

PM to me if you want his name and contact details.

The Honorary Consulate in Chiang Mai closed in 2023. 

 

https://thailand.embassy.gov.au/bkok/Consular_Outreach.html

 

"The Honorary Consulate in Chiang Mai closed on 21 December 2023.

Further information:

•   FAQ: Honorary Consulate in Chiang Mai closure"

[Olmate]

13 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You have to admit it is very convincing.

 

Question - for what purpose?

Clearly clickbait as RJ has said, clear your browser, its full of similar sites once you show some interest in OAP issues.

[Olmate]

41 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Clearly clickbait as RJ has said, clear your browser, its full of similar sites once you show some interest in OAP issues.

Here is another that popped up on my Google just this morning.

[Olmate]

This appeared on Mygov today! 

[KhunHeineken]

Video only 12 days old. 

 

It's an informative video, but 4:15 to 4:50 is relevant to expat pensioners.   

 

 

 

No where in the comments section does anyone say, "That's only for guys like Paul Hogan." 

[KhunHeineken]

Well explained.  Video 4 months old. 

 

He mentions doing 45 days a year in Australia to remain a resident of Australia for tax purposes. 

 

 

A lot of comments asking about taxing of the aged pension at non resident 30% rate.

 

 

[Olmate]

19 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Video only 12 days old. 

 

It's an informative video, but 4:15 to 4:50 is relevant to expat pensioners.   

 

 

 

No where in the comments section does anyone say, "That's only for guys like Paul Hogan." 

 

[KhunHeineken]

4 hours ago, Olmate said:

 

Is the below "fake information?"  It's from the Australian Government Treasury Department.

 

  https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-07/c2023-205344-cp.pdf

 

Accounting firms, financial advisors, legal firms, tax experts etc have posted on their websites about it.  It's not "click bait" it's real, and in my opinion, will happen, particularly as the current laws are 90 years old. 

[RJRS1301]

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Is the below "fake information?"  It's from the Australian Government Treasury Department.

 

  https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-07/c2023-205344-cp.pdf

 

Accounting firms, financial advisors, legal firms, tax experts etc have posted on their websites about it.  It's not "click bait" it's real, and in my opinion, will happen, particularly as the current laws are 90 years old. 

I think I prefer to take Commonwealth benefit advice from Services Australia or mygov website than your opinion, especially when i comes from a source from India

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

I think I prefer to take Commonwealth benefit advice from Services Australia or mygov website than your opinion, especially when i comes from a source from India

I was not the one that posted the link from India.

 

My link is from the Australian Government - Treasury Department.  Do you think an Australian government source is not credible? 

 

It's the Australian Government, not social media, or click bait from India. 

 

The fact that accounting firms, law firms, financial advisors etc have put it on their websites, or made a youtube clip about it, doesn't make it click bait. 

 

Here's the link again. 

 

 https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-07/c2023-205344-cp.pdf

 

 

[Nemises]

12 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-07/c2023-205344-cp.pdf

Closing date for submissions was 2 years ago. Nothing has changed yet. Nothing is scheduled to change yet. Yawn. 🥱 

 

💤 

 

[RJRS1301]

19 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I was not the one that posted the link from India.

 

My link is from the Australian Government - Treasury Department.  Do you think an Australian government source is not credible? 

 

It's the Australian Government, not social media, or click bait from India. 

 

The fact that accounting firms, law firms, financial advisors etc have put it on their websites, or made a youtube clip about it, doesn't make it click bait. 

 

Here's the link again. 

 

 https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-07/c2023-205344-cp.pdf

 

 

 

That site is older than some of "scare tactic "posts

That was from a consultation paper 2023, nothing more than a call for submissions to a consultation

 

[KhunHeineken]

8 hours ago, Nemises said:

Closing date for submissions was 2 years ago. Nothing has changed yet. Nothing is scheduled to change yet. Yawn. 🥱 

 

💤

 

The point is, the proposed changes were drafted by the Morrison Liberal government in 2020 / 21. 

 

When Albo was voted in, many members of this forum thought they would be scrapped by the new Labor government. 

 

Does progressing to the consultation stage in 2023 show that Albo and Labor have scrapped the proposed changes? 

[KhunHeineken]

38 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

That site is older than some of "scare tactic "posts

Is it from India, or from the Australian Government Treasury Department?

 

38 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

That was from a consultation paper 2023, nothing more than a call for submissions to a consultation

Yes, but under the current Labor government, which shows Labor has not binned the proposed changes drafted by the previous Morrison Liberal government.  This basically means it does not matter if it's Labor or Liberal in government, the laws will be eventually passed and implemented. 

 

Have you got a place to stay in Australia for 45 days each year? 

[RJRS1301]

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

The point is, the proposed changes were drafted by the Morrison Liberal government in 2020 / 21. 

 

When Albo was voted in, many members of this forum thought they would be scrapped by the new Labor government. 

 

Does progressing to the consultation stage in 2023 show that Albo and Labor have scrapped the proposed changes? 

All the days you're physically present in Australia during the income year will be counted. This includes the day of your arrival and departure. It's important to note that the 183-day test applies in relation to the year of income, not the calendar year.30 June 2024

Residency – the 183-day test | Australian Taxation Office

Australian Taxation Office

https://www.ato.gov.au › individuals-and-families › resid...

 

 

 

Here ya go as June 2024  and confirm May 2025 that answer your questions

Henny Penny the Sky isn't falling

 

[KhunHeineken]

6 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

All the days you're physically present in Australia during the income year will be counted. This includes the day of your arrival and departure. It's important to note that the 183-day test applies in relation to the year of income, not the calendar year.30 June 2024

Residency – the 183-day test | Australian Taxation Office

Australian Taxation Office

https://www.ato.gov.au › individuals-and-families › resid...

 

 

 

Here ya go as June 2024  and confirm May 2025 that answer your questions

Henny Penny the Sky isn't falling

 

When he proposed changes are passed into law, if you are outside of Australia for 183 day, you will be deemed a non resident for tax purposed.  That's the "bright line" test.

 

If you are inside Australia between 45 days and 183 days, you have to meet two out of four factor tests.

 

The pension is deemed to be an income. 

 

Non resident tax is 30% from $0 to $135,000.

 

There are no exemptions in the proposed changes.  

 

There are no changes to the non resident tax brackets in the proposed changes.  Eg. the introduction of a tax free threshold to cover pensioners. 

 

There is no means testing in the proposed changes. 

 

The Australia / Thailand DTA does not cover the aged pension, it covers "service pensions." 

 

So, Henny Penny, what of the above do you disagree with?  It's all in writing, and from the Australian Government, and not from India. 

[Nemises]

3 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

If you are inside Australia between 45 days and 183 days, you have to meet two out of four factor tests.

What are the four factor tests again, please?

[KhunHeineken]

1 hour ago, Nemises said:

What are the four factor tests again, please?

"The closing date for submissions was 2 years ago. Nothing has changed yet. Nothing is scheduled to change yet." And, apparently, it's only for guys like Paul Hogan, so why do you need to know the four factor tests?. 

[Nemises]

20 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

"The closing date for submissions was 2 years ago. Nothing has changed yet. Nothing is scheduled to change yet." And, apparently, it's only for guys like Paul Hogan, so why do you need to know the four factor tests?. 

Because they are probably all grey areas thus adding many more years to when/IF these changes are ever implemented. 🤣

[CygnusX1]

4 hours ago, Nemises said:

What are the four factor tests again, please?

1. Right to reside permanently in Australia (ie Australian citizen for most people)

2. Australian accommodation (owner occupier of property or long term renter)

3. Australian family (spouse or children under 18 living in Australia)

4. Australian economic interests such as reasonable amount of money in an Australian bank account.

Explained in a lot more detail at the link KH provided.

Proposal is that if you’re in Australia for at least 45 days of the tax year and if you satisfy at least 2 of the 4 factors then you’re a tax resident. It’s even easier than that - you have to be present in Australia for less than 45 days for 3 consecutive years to lose tax residency.

All just a proposal, no legislation yet passed, or I think even presented to Parliament.

 

 

[Lacessit]

Note to all posters on this thread:

 

A friend of mine did his retirement visa extension yesterday at the Mae Sai office. He had recently used his 800K on deposit to buy a condo, so they gave him a hard time over that.

 

There was no mention of a tax ID being necessary. Or any need to pay tax on the extra cash he had transferred.

[KhunHeineken]

19 hours ago, Nemises said:

Because they are probably all grey areas thus adding many more years to when/IF these changes are ever implemented. 🤣

The current laws, which are 90 years old, are a grey area.  They have a lot of loopholes in them.  Many Australian expats have avoided paying non resident tax for years, including myself.

 

The proposed changes, that's the 183 day "bright line test" and the four secondary factor ,are designed to do away with complex and subjective residency for tax purposes laws and replace them with a time based, counted in days, and physical presence model, which is similar to many other countries. 

 

This will mean, no longer can one reside in Australia but claim to be a non resident for tax purposes, and no longer can one reside overseas, but claim to be a resident for tax purposes. 

 

If / when the new laws are passed, your physical presence, and for how many days, will determine your tax residency. 

 

Both Labor and Liberal will remove the current grey area with this new law, thus simplifying the laws. 

 

Given Liberal drafted the proposed changes, and Labor did not scrap them, and in fact progressed them to the consultation stage, show they will be passed in parliament with little to no opposition, although Labor has said they will review the 45 days and possible increase these days. 

 

In my opinion, if they do increase these days, it would probably be to 60 days or similar, so, if you wish to remain a tax resident of Australia, thus benefiting from the tax free threshold, one will need to be prepared to stay in Australia for 45 days, or possible a little longer, and be able to meet two of the four factor tests. 

 

No grey area at all.  Immigration records will show you are inside or outside of Australia, and for how long, thus a resident or non resident for tax purposes.  No reviews, no appeals, no exemptions.  All very simple. 

[KhunHeineken]

17 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

Proposal is that if you’re in Australia for at least 45 days of the tax year and if you satisfy at least 2 of the 4 factors then you’re a tax resident. It’s even easier than that - you have to be present in Australia for less than 45 days for 3 consecutive years to lose tax residency.

There are many people that want to be a non resident for tax purposes because it's financially beneficial for them to be a non resident, however, I would suggest most expat retirees would wish to be a resident for tax purposes to avail themselves of the tax free threshold, otherwise it's 30% tax from $0 to $135,000.

 

This will mean doing 45 days in Australia, and meeting two of the four factor tests. 

 

17 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

All just a proposal, no legislation yet passed, or I think even presented to Parliament.

Correct, however, many members of this forum thought Albo / Labor would never put the proposed changes to parliament.  Labor did not bin them, and have progressed them to the consultation stage.  This shows that eventually they will be put to parliament and will be passed with little to no opposition because they have the support of both Labour and Liberal.  

 

It's only a matter of time before they are passed and implemented.  Members should plan how they can be a resident or non resident for tax purposes under the proposed changes, whichever one is more financially beneficial for them.    

[Nemises]

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

No grey area at all

4/ Australian economic interests such as reasonable amount of money in an Australian bank account

 

So how much exactly will be a reasonable amount of money?

[KhunHeineken]

27 minutes ago, Nemises said:

4/ Australian economic interests such as reasonable amount of money in an Australian bank account

 

So how much exactly will be a reasonable amount of money?

From the below document from the Treasury Department.

 

https://treasury.gov.au/sites/default/files/2023-07/c2023-205344-cp.pdf

 

This is "Point 4" from that document. 

 

"Australian economic interests 50.

 

Under the Board’s model, an individual would meet this factor if they had any of the following Australian economic connections:

 

(a) Employment in Australia – they commonly (not infrequently) carried out their employment duties in Australia, regardless of whether their employer was an Australian resident or a foreign resident.

 

(b) Active participation in the carrying on of a business in Australia - they controlled (directly or indirectly), or played a significant role in, the operations or management of a business in Australia.

 

(c) Direct or indirect interests in Australian assets – they had an interest in taxable Australian property, a bank account with an Australian bank with significant cash deposits, an interest in a family trust, or they received Australian social security payments in the preceding income year."

 

There is (a), (b) and (c) within "Point 4" of the factor tests and you only have to meet one of them.

 

In relation to (c), having a property in Australia, or for those receiving a pension, they received a social security payment in the preceding income year, is enough to satisfy (c).

 

To answer your question, how much money is a "significant cash deposit" I do not know the dollar value,  but it's certainly not $10 in an Australian bank account which some members believe shows one's intention to be an Australian resident for tax purposes. 

 

Yes, some members believe just because they have an Australian bank account, they are a resident for tax purposes. 

 

One member posted he's a resident for tax purposes because he still has a Medicare Card. 

[Lacessit]

29 minutes ago, Nemises said:

4/ Australian economic interests such as reasonable amount of money in an Australian bank account

 

So how much exactly will be a reasonable amount of money?

No one knows the answer to that question.

 

I usually have between $40K and $90K on term deposit, if that's not enough I give up.

[Nemises]

 

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

No grey area at all.  Immigration records will show you are inside or outside of Australia, and for how long, thus a resident or non resident for tax purposes.  No reviews, no appeals, no exemptions.  All very simple. 

 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

To answer your question, how much money is a "significant cash deposit" I do not know the dollar value,

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

30 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I usually have between $40K and $90K on term deposit

In my opinion, and I'll post that again, in my opinion, that represents "a significant cash deposit." 

 

It's an amount of money most people would not walk away from.   It's an amount of money that makes interest.  It's an amount of money that shows you have maintained an economic interest in Australia. 

 

"A significant cash deposit" is not $10 just to keep the account open.