Australian Aged Pension

[BEVUP]

2 hours ago, moojar said:

 

That has got me thinking - like, how much information can C/Link legally get from the Thai government, given a Thai wife's ID card details?  If they can get marriage registration info, then they can presumably get property ownership info, vehicle ownership info, tax info, etc..   Hmmm.     

 

Anyway, I was reading a "pensioners retiring overseas" article on the ABC website, an interesting read:  

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-16/pensioners-retiring-overseas-because-they-cant-afford-australia/9762418

 

Seems the smart thing to do is choose a country with a reciprocal social services agreement.  Which Thailand unfortunately does not have.  

 

Some things in the article I didn't know, such as: 

 

And there's a link to a C/Link 'portability requirements' page:  

https://www.dss.gov.au/about-the-department/international/policy/portability-of-australian-income-support-payments

 

Some good posts here Elvis btw - thanks.  You should try Parkes in country NSW for your two years confinement, they have an annual Elvis festival.  ?  

Yes good info

About portability

Well if you mention you have  wife & kids here wouldn't they click onto the fact you are planning to stay quite a while here (longer then 26 wks )

They would certainly pick everything up from my Passport - Marriage visas (outside Auss ) / Me bringing wife & son for holidays 

Sounds like you have to keep returning to Auss 

A poster said you need a lease - What if you stay with family 

Then there was mention that you have to keep satisfying DSS 

EG: To get Portability I shall tell them I want to visit my family (not sure for how long ) - What would they think of that ?

Bit hard to say I'm planning a year long holiday when they know about my family

 

 

Edited May 21, 2018 by BEVUP

[ELVIS123456]

10 hours ago, Gregster said:

Great advice, as always Elvis. Good luck with it all. Are you staying in a small country town for the 2 years?

 

Thanks Mate.  Yep - staying in Qld with the Thai wife.

 

[ELVIS123456]

7 hours ago, BEVUP said:

Yes good info

About portability

Well if you mention you have  wife & kids here wouldn't they click onto the fact you are planning to stay quite a while here (longer then 26 wks )

They would certainly pick everything up from my Passport - Marriage visas (outside Auss ) / Me bringing wife & son for holidays 

Sounds like you have to keep returning to Auss 

A poster said you need a lease - What if you stay with family 

Then there was mention that you have to keep satisfying DSS 

EG: To get Portability I shall tell them I want to visit my family (not sure for how long ) - What would they think of that ?

Bit hard to say I'm planning a year long holiday when they know about my family

 

 

If you are staying with friend/relos - you just need them to write a letter stating that, and have it witnessed and signed by a JP (police station easiest or council offfices).

 

Once they know about family that 'option' is over. 

 

[BEVUP]

8 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Once they know about family that 'option' is over. 

Why ? I've read on here that people have told them everything - To the point of having to supply Thai documents

They said that they had nothing to hide incase of further trouble with DSS

[ELVIS123456]

1 hour ago, BEVUP said:

Why ? I've read on here that people have told them everything - To the point of having to supply Thai documents

They said that they had nothing to hide incase of further trouble with DSS

I meant the option of claiming to be not married in order to get the higher single rate of pension.

Once CLink know you have Thai family, they will decide you are married whether the Amphur ceremony has been done or not.

 

[totally thaied up]

 

13 hours ago, moojar said:

That has got me thinking - like, how much information can C/Link legally get from the Thai government, given a Thai wife's ID card details?  If they can get marriage registration info, then they can presumably get property ownership info, vehicle ownership info, tax info, etc..   Hmmm.     

In all honesty, I feel they could get everything and over time they do. Just a marriage visa in your passport would do it.

 

I heard a long time back of a person that has been off Medicare (too long out of the country) but got expensive drugs shipped over to the Philippines (the drugs got sent to the old address and then sent over to the Philippines). The Medicare Card was invalid but somehow, it all went through. It all got caught up with in the end and way back then, they faced a pretty big payback fine for the FULL cost of drugs.

 

You cannot scam the Australian Government forever. In the end, they will find out if and when they want to.

[keithpa]

2 hours ago, totally thaied up said:

 

In all honesty, I feel they could get everything and over time they do. Just a marriage visa in your passport would do it.

 

I heard a long time back of a person that has been off Medicare (too long out of the country) but got expensive drugs shipped over to the Philippines (the drugs got sent to the old address and then sent over to the Philippines). The Medicare Card was invalid but somehow, it all went through. It all got caught up with in the end and way back then, they faced a pretty big payback fine for the FULL cost of drugs.

 

You cannot scam the Australian Government forever. In the end, they will find out if and when they want to.

I mentioned on here that I wont qualify for any OAP as I have accumulated too much money during my working life, and my post got deleted, so, dont mention if you dont need the OAP. Dont ask me why I got deleted.

[sceadugenga]

You also mentioned on January 9th that you have been on the OAP for 5 years.

Post #2031

 

If you can't be truthful, or at least consistent in your inability to tell the truth, don't post in this thread.

[keithpa]

1 hour ago, sceadugenga said:

You also mentioned on January 9th that you have been on the OAP for 5 years.

Post #2031

 

If you can't be truthful, or at least consistent in your inability to tell the truth, don't post in this thread.

I meant I get a part OAP, not full. My apologize.

[sceadugenga]

So now we have a third option?

[Ban Phe Dezza]

13 hours ago, ELVIS123456 said:

I meant the option of claiming to be not married in order to get the higher single rate of pension.

Once CLink know you have Thai family, they will decide you are married whether the Amphur ceremony has been done or not.

 

It is not necessary to even be married if you are in a relationship that is sufficient to take you of the Single rate,   Not so long ago a lady in poor health had a Carer and even though they had single rooms she was placed on the Married rate. An appeal was lodged and the decision to place her on the married rate was rescinded Note  a relationship can be Male to Male or Female to female even Transgender relationships are hit   

[Nemises]

Thanks Mate.  Yep - staying in Qld with the Thai wife.
 

I’m thinking of doing the same ie rural Qld, for warmer climate & affordability.
Are you claiming NewStart prior to applying for OAP, as I understand the transition from NS to OAP is a formality?

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Gregster said:

 

I’m thinking of doing the same ie rural Qld, for warmer climate & affordability.
Are you claiming NewStart prior to applying for OAP, as I understand the transition from NS to OAP is a formality?

 

If I may...upon return to Oz five months prior to Age Pension I claimed NewStart, not required to look for work. Roll over to Age Pension is not 'just a formality' as one must meet eligibility criteria.

 

Centrelink advised me to apply for Age Pension 13 weeks prior to eligibility date for Age Pension due to time required for processing application. My claim was only made easier as I had already established residency when claiming NewStart, still had to complete forms, telephone interview etc for Age Pension.

[Nemises]

If I may...upon return to Oz five months prior to Age Pension I claimed NewStart, not required to look for work. Roll over to Age Pension is not 'just a formality' as one must meet eligibility criteria.

 

Centrelink advised me to apply for Age Pension 13 weeks prior to eligibility date for Age Pension due to time required for processing application. My claim was only made easier as I had already established residency when claiming NewStart, still had to complete forms, telephone interview etc for Age Pension.

It was the “residency establishment” component of the OAP application to which I was referring as I understood there would other forms and interviews before qualifying for the OAP. Thanks for confirming residency is already established when switching from NS to OAP.

[ELVIS123456]

8 hours ago, Gregster said:

 

I’m thinking of doing the same ie rural Qld, for warmer climate & affordability.
Are you claiming NewStart prior to applying for OAP, as I understand the transition from NS to OAP is a formality?

 

You got it - maybe take some part-time work - maybe not.

 

[ELVIS123456]

6 hours ago, simple1 said:

If I may...upon return to Oz five months prior to Age Pension I claimed NewStart, not required to look for work. Roll over to Age Pension is not 'just a formality' as one must meet eligibility criteria.

 

Centrelink advised me to apply for Age Pension 13 weeks prior to eligibility date for Age Pension due to time required for processing application. My claim was only made easier as I had already established residency when claiming NewStart, still had to complete forms, telephone interview etc for Age Pension.

Yep 'residency' is the key - you must show you are (planning on) staying forever.  And as the years go by it will only get harder - the Govt saves money when they force people overseas through the hoops and they dont bother to come back to get it.  No doubt the 'waiting period' for thoise that return will be 3 years in future, and probably 5 years some years after that move. That is why I figured it is best to go back before the OAP is due - easier transition that way.

 

[ELVIS123456]

9 hours ago, Ban Phe Dezza said:

It is not necessary to even be married if you are in a relationship that is sufficient to take you of the Single rate,   Not so long ago a lady in poor health had a Carer and even though they had single rooms she was placed on the Married rate. An appeal was lodged and the decision to place her on the married rate was rescinded Note  a relationship can be Male to Male or Female to female even Transgender relationships are hit   

True.  Obviously somehow CLink found out she was living with someone else and unilaterally changed the OAP rate.  

It was in Australia I assume - defacto relationships while in Aust are 'automatic'.

 

When someone is living overseas it 'technically' follows the laws of that country - and in Thailand law defacto means nothing - in Thailand it is not married to live together.  I dont want to go on about it too much, but the reason for the 'married rate', is because otherwise 2 people would get the single rate times 2. The deal is that 2 get a lower rate because they live together and share costs (rates, car, electric, bills, etc) and it istherefore  cheaper. Plus the 'partner' if under OAP age is either employed or on Newstart.  The Thai wife of a bloke in Thailand will never get the OAP (or Newstart), but CLink has unilaterally decided that doesnt matter. CLink will reduce a blokes rate to the married rate, irrespective of the reality of his partner's earnings potential as a citizen of another country. Not an issue I care directly about as I am going down another path - but I wonder why noone in that situation has appealed to SSAT and the AAT on those grounds. Perhaps someone has?? Or knows someone that has??

 

[Nemises]

No doubt the 'waiting period' for thoise that return will be 3 years in future...
 

3 years?! Not good to hear. Have you read this somewhere or your prediction?

[David Walden]

On 5/17/2018 at 3:24 PM, giddyup said:

It will depend on what your income is whether you will get a full OAP or not. I only get $700 a month, which is still not to be sneezed at, but my super and bank interest cuts the pension.

Working back on your pension payments as disclosed above of about $1,900 to $700 p/m. To calculate how much you have in a bank a/c.  $1,900 pension down to $700 p/m indicates you are losing $1,200 p/m in Centrelink Pension payments.  This being so suggests you have about $250,000 in a bank a/c and at least $400,000 in super as well (both assets) and no house you live in. You must be well above the asset threshold.  Your information suggest your asset level with no home to live in is about $650,000...do you have some problems with that?...poor thing.

Edited May 23, 2018 by David Walden

[David Walden]

On 5/19/2018 at 7:15 PM, ELVIS123456 said:

True.  The full rate is absolutely worth it.  After that it is a decision - is it worth it for 2 years 'trouble'. 

But even $700 a month is about $170K (4 million baht). That will buy a house in Thailand.

4 million bht...your calculation are loooooong way over the top.  It would take 238 months at Aus $700 p/m or  20 years for $700 p/m to add up to 4,000000 bht.   hmmmm.

Edited May 23, 2018 by David Walden

[giddyup]

2 hours ago, David Walden said:

Working back on your pension payments as disclosed above of about $1,900 to $700 p/m. To calculate how much you have in a bank a/c.  $1,900 pension down to $700 p/m indicates you are losing $1,200 p/m in Centrelink Pension payments.  This being so suggests you have about $250,000 in a bank a/c and at least $400,000 in super as well (both assets) and no house you live in. You must be well above the asset threshold.  Your information suggest your asset level with no home to live in is about $650,000...do you have some problems with that?...poor thing.

Was I complaining, but I have nowhere near what you suggest. I have approx. $370,000 in bank savings, I get an indexed super pension of $1200 a month plus an allocated pension of $500 a month that's drawing down and will probably be depleted in a year or so. I often wonder whether C'link is paying me enough, but I live comfortably enough on what I have and don't want to rock the boat.

Edited May 23, 2018 by giddyup

[giddyup]

30 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Was I complaining, but I have nowhere near what you suggest. I have approx. $370,000 in bank savings, I get an indexed super pension of $1200 a month plus an allocated pension of $500 a month that's drawing down and will probably be depleted in a year or so. I often wonder whether C'link is paying me enough, but I live comfortably enough on what I have and don't want to rock the boat.

My mistake, I get $800 a month from C'link, not $700.

[David Walden]

5 hours ago, giddyup said:

Was I complaining, but I have nowhere near what you suggest. I have approx. $370,000 in bank savings, I get an indexed super pension of $1200 a month plus an allocated pension of $500 a month that's drawing down and will probably be depleted in a year or so. I often wonder whether C'link is paying me enough, but I live comfortably enough on what I have and don't want to rock the boat.

I don't know the details but if you are single and don't own a house you live in, and are receiving the Australian aged Pension, as you explain the $370,000 you have in the bank and the asset value of your investments (super) does appear to be valued at about $650,000 by Centrelink.  Money in Super and downloads from that fund are not taxed but the value of of what you have in a super fund is an asset and Centrelink rules apply.  Perhaps you do own a house you live, if that is the case then your asset free threshold limit is $253.000 instead of $456,750 if you don't own a house.  So what's new I'm in the same boat as you but it appears you have more money then me.  It's not for me to know...your problem appears to be you just have to much money and assets and exceed the threshold limits ( happens to lots of people)...poor thing but it is never ever gunna change or get better. 

 

PS... If your pension is indexed for the rest of you life, not so common now days, mainly for retired public servants. There a complicated method of calculating the asset value of these type of whole of life indexed pensions by Centrelink.  My Uncle has one of these, It continues until the day he passes.  It started out as $600 per week 20 years ago and he now get $1500 per week indexed tax free for the rest of his life.  It has no surrender value. But does have a high asset value.

Edited May 24, 2018 by David Walden

[giddyup]

11 minutes ago, David Walden said:

PS... If you pension is indexed for the rest of you life .  Not so common now days mainly for retired public servants. There a complicated method of calculating the asset value of these type of whole of life indexed pensions by Centrelink.  It continues until the day he passes.  It started out as $600 per week 20 years ago and he now get $1500 per week indexed for the rest of his life.  It has no surrender value.

When I retired I opted to take the indexed pension (Comsuper) rather than a lump sum, but what annoys me is that C'link deems interest on money in the bank at 3.5% when the best I can get is 2.5%.

[moojar]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

When I retired I opted to take the indexed pension (Comsuper) rather than a lump sum, but what annoys me is that C'link deems interest on money in the bank at 3.5% when the best I can get is 2.5%.

Not trying to give financial advice, I am certainly not qualified, but can't you put the cash into a Super account?  That might circumvent some of the C/L assets test / avoid some tax, and you can still invest cash in term deposits within the fund - you can in my (industry) fund at least.  

 

And to be even more nosy ?, if my math is correct your budget is in the 60K - 70K baht per month range.  How comfortably can you live on that?  Run a car, travel a bit, enjoy western foods sometimes, alcohol, ...?   Reason I ask is that's the ballpark figure I'm looking at, assuming we will never get an OAP.  That budget is for two of us, but we already own a new pickup and have built a small house on Issan land we (she) own.  As we approach our early retirement day though - under 100 weeks to go now - I'm getting nervous.  We don't have an extravagant lifestyle by any stretch, but the thought of counting pennies gives me nightmares.  AUD falling, Baht rising, and property market in free-fall = not helping.  ?

 

 

[giddyup]

7 minutes ago, moojar said:

Not trying to give financial advice, I am certainly not qualified, but can't you put the cash into a Super account?  That might circumvent some of the C/L assets test / avoid some tax, and you can still invest cash in term deposits within the fund - you can in my (industry) fund at least.  

 

And to be even more nosy ?, if my math is correct your budget is in the 60K - 70K baht per month range.  How comfortably can you live on that?  Run a car, travel a bit, enjoy western foods sometimes, alcohol, ...?   Reason I ask is that's the ballpark figure I'm looking at, assuming we will never get an OAP.  That budget is for two of us, but we already own a new pickup and have built a small house on Issan land we (she) own.  As we approach our early retirement day though - under 100 weeks to go now - I'm getting nervous.  We don't have an extravagant lifestyle by any stretch, but the thought of counting pennies gives me nightmares.  AUD falling, Baht rising, and property market in free-fall = not helping.  ?

 

 

I've been retired more than 10 years, can't add any money to my indexed super now.  My income in Thai Baht is around 24,000, or A$600 per week, we (my Thai lady and I) live very comfortably on that, with money actually accruing in my Aussie bank account. I buy whatever kind of food I want, enjoy a couple of bottles of red a month, new TV if I need one, run a late model pickup, own our own house etc. The only thing that could knock a hole in my income/assets would be a serious illness as I have no health cover, because of prohibitive premiums at my age.

[David Walden]

3 hours ago, giddyup said:

When I retired I opted to take the indexed pension (Comsuper) rather than a lump sum, but what annoys me is that C'link deems interest on money in the bank at 3.5% when the best I can get is 2.5%.

My uncle is in the same boat.  23 years ago he decided that he would take the public service indexed pension of $600 p/w for the rest of his life which was a good idea at the time, it is now $1500 P/W.  If he had put his $375,000 option payout then in Super it may well be worth $1,000,000 today.  His down load 23 years ago would not have been as good.  But today by tax laws he would have been required to download 8% or a bit over $1500 per week tax free and still have had an asset of 1 million dollars in the fund.  He regrets this a lot as he is not well and his prospect are not good.  If he passes soon his estate will get nothing he is single, no children never been married.

 

Many public servants 20/30 years ago had to decide weather to take a lump sum on retirement or choose an indexed pension for life.  Much better if you expect to live to 100 y/o not so good if you kick the bucket 3 month after you start your indexed pension...you get nothing...sorry about that.   Yes Commonwealth Super Fund (subsidised by the Govt. nearly broke lots of times)

Edited May 24, 2018 by David Walden

[giddyup]

8 minutes ago, David Walden said:

My uncle is in the same boat.  23 years ago he decided that he would take the public service indexed pension of $600 p/w for the rest of his life which was a good idea at the time, it is now $1500 P/W.  If he had put his $375,000 option payout then in Super it may well be worth $1,000,000 today.  His down load 23 years ago would not have been as good.  But today by tax laws he would have been required to download 8% or a bit over $1500 per week tax free and still have had an asset of 1 million dollars in the fund.  He regrets this a lot as he is not well and his prospect are not good.  If he passes soon his estate will get nothing he is single, no children never been married.

 

Many public servants 20/30 years ago had to decide weather to take a lump sum on retirement or choose an indexed pension for life.  Much better if you expect to live to 100 y/o not so good if you kick the bucket 3 month after you start your indexed pension...you get nothing...sorry about that.   Yes Commonwealth Super Fund (subsidised by the Govt. nearly broke lots of times)

I know I made the right choice, I have already been paid out more than I put in. If your uncle is single what difference does it make if he leaves nothing? Some distant relative who hardly know him gets a big payout? I don't think so.

[sceadugenga]

34 minutes ago, David Walden said:

My uncle is in the same boat.  23 years ago he decided that he would take the public service indexed pension of $600 p/w for the rest of his life which was a good idea at the time, it is now $1500 P/W.  If he had put his $375,000 option payout then in Super it may well be worth $1,000,000 today.  His down load 23 years ago would not have been as good.  But today by tax laws he would have been required to download 8% or a bit over $1500 per week tax free and still have had an asset of 1 million dollars in the fund.  He regrets this a lot as he is not well and his prospect are not good.  If he passes soon his estate will get nothing he is single, no children never been married.

 

Many public servants 20/30 years ago had to decide weather to take a lump sum on retirement or choose an indexed pension for life.  Much better if you expect to live to 100 y/o not so good if you kick the bucket 3 month after you start your indexed pension...you get nothing...sorry about that.   Yes Commonwealth Super Fund (subsidised by the Govt. nearly broke lots of times)

The old State government super schemes worked in the same way.

My father got 30 years out of his then my mother cashed it a few years after he died and went onto OAP.

I'd say that they got 35 years of payments out of it, about 70% of his salary on retirement, indexed.

[David Walden]

2 hours ago, moojar said:

Not trying to give financial advice, I am certainly not qualified, but can't you put the cash into a Super account?  That might circumvent some of the C/L assets test / avoid some tax, and you can still invest cash in term deposits within the fund - you can in my (industry) fund at least.  

 

And to be even more nosy ?, if my math is correct your budget is in the 60K - 70K baht per month range.  How comfortably can you live on that?  Run a car, travel a bit, enjoy western foods sometimes, alcohol, ...?   Reason I ask is that's the ballpark figure I'm looking at, assuming we will never get an OAP.  That budget is for two of us, but we already own a new pickup and have built a small house on Issan land we (she) own.  As we approach our early retirement day though - under 100 weeks to go now - I'm getting nervous.  We don't have an extravagant lifestyle by any stretch, but the thought of counting pennies gives me nightmares.  AUD falling, Baht rising, and property market in free-fall = not helping.  ?

 

 

If you are living off your super I would suggest you seek someone who knows about these things.  The house you talk about is hers on her land (yes).  This may be a good point as if you don't own a house you live in you can have $456,750 in assets and still get the Aus single full pension.  You can be the star boarder.  You can only have  $253,000 in assets if you do own a house you live in.  Assets can be a car, super or anything.  And, you are not married we all know that? and only have a casual relation with your lady friend in Thailand? yes. ( maybe 3 kids as well, don't laugh maybe it's true? lovely).  You should be looking for ways to establish your Australian residency.  If you play your card right and your assets (super and all) is under $456,750 and you have the required residency you will get the Australian pension in full and be able to keep you super down load of at least 5% per year.  And live very comfortable in Thailand.  You additional super on top of you pension will be tax free also if you are under the tax threshold.

 

There are lots of ignorant people who contribute to this site who will say I'm all BS.  Don't worry about them they never go away.  You appear to be a nice relationship with a Thai Lady (or lady boy...joke 555) there will likely be that you will have to spend some time back in Aus. to qualify for a full pension.  How you handle that may well be your biggest hurdle (you can get over hurdles, just jump!) lots to plan and think about but doable with a little pain and patients...good luck.  Mr Moojar

 

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by David Walden