Filling Up The Land,need Advice

[songsai]

Hi All,

Have been reading for quite sometime and have learned much. My first time posting and hope to hear from the knowledged.

I'd like for some advice on how to go about filling up the land with soil in CM. The area is about 143 sq.wa(572sq.m.?)around BigC area. There are a few fruit trees(less than ten) which mostly covered with climbing weeds. I asked for the estimate from one party to clear up the land (fall the trees, dig up roots and haul away), and fill with soil up to 50cms. The quote was 8500bhts to clear the land and 44000bhts for the 50cms thick soil cover.

I feel that it's a bit expensive but then I don't know what the reasonable price should be. I'm hoping that some members of the forum could help me out on this. All inputs are greatly appreciated.

regards,

songsai

[Cuban]

To clear the trees, and anything else that can be burnt, I suggest that you talk to poorer farming folk - they will do it for free if they keep the wood etc. (but this will not get roots dug out etc.)

A quick fag packet calculation on your land fill suggests about 70 trucks (assume 4 metre sq per load) at 300 a truck give a rate for 50cm of about 21,000 Baht.

Have you allowed settling in the 50cm? if not suggest you go to 75cm or 1 metre in the place you wish to build?

When I did three Rai last year I allowed for the rainwash effect by including a moat around the area I wanted to raise up, this way any run off remains on "my" property.

[Naam]

I asked for the estimate from one party to clear up the land (fall the trees, dig up roots and haul away), and fill with soil up to 50cms. The quote was 8500bhts to clear the land and 44000bhts for the 50cms thick soil cover.

I feel that it's a bit expensive but then I don't know what the reasonable price should be. I'm hoping that some members of the forum could help me out on this. All inputs are greatly appreciated.

i can't comment on the cost of clearing. the 572m² is correct. 50cm fill = 286m3 = 36 trucks each 8m3 @ 550 Baht (my cost in 2005) = ~20,000 Baht. add at least 25% for the fill to settle to reach the actual 50cm height and you land up at 25,000 Baht. an unkown factor is from what distance the contractor has to haul the fill. the difference in transport cost could be substantial.

[in the sky]

Hi All,

Have been reading for quite sometime and have learned much. My first time posting and hope to hear from the knowledged.

I'd like for some advice on how to go about filling up the land with soil in CM. The area is about 143 sq.wa(572sq.m.?)around BigC area. There are a few fruit trees(less than ten) which mostly covered with climbing weeds. I asked for the estimate from one party to clear up the land (fall the trees, dig up roots and haul away), and fill with soil up to 50cms. The quote was 8500bhts to clear the land and 44000bhts for the 50cms thick soil cover.

I feel that it's a bit expensive but then I don't know what the reasonable price should be. I'm hoping that some members of the forum could help me out on this. All inputs are greatly appreciated.

regards,

songsai

I shelled out over 65,000B to clean up and fill about 2 meters 70 wa, Then another few thousnad for trees and plants to transform it into something that will be beautiful in a year or so. No High Buildings here!! Expensive, but worth it!!

[Cuban]

Generally, the soil (earth is a better term as it has rocks etc.) is dug from someone's land where a fish pond is being planned. The contractor digs the hole free and the person that wants the land fill pays for delivery etc.

Your quote of 44,000 Baht means you are paying about 155 Baht a cubic metre of soil, even allowing for increased fuel prices since Naam's and my own experiances that is still somewhat expensive compared to the 65-75 Baht range we paid. One point I forgot to mention, the price I paid included the tractor thing to move the fill around the land and compact it.

Unless you are really in the sticks (that area in CM is not) with difficult access I believe you could find a better price for the contract.

When you come to setting the contract I suggest that you formalise the agreement, EXACTLY what is included in the deal and when it will be started and when it will finish. I have found that having a document to refer to ensures that "misunderstandings" do not happen. So many farang seem to charge headlong into building projects with no written contract and everything done by word of mouth via a Thai partner (relationship not business), Thai's don't do this. Even if it is a simple document knocked up on-site, a contractor is so much more likely to complete the defined task when such a contract exists.

I employed a relative to sit under a shade on the working days to count the trucks delievering soil, marking each one off in a note book I provided. The contractor did the same, his interest was in the number plates of the three or four trucks working on the project as he was using this to ensure the drivers were delivering to my site and not someone else that they had set up as a sideline.

I refused to buy beer for my counter as I said he might sleep in the shade instead of counting, but he got a small beer bonus at the end.

This sort of activity attracts the local kids, spend a few minutes considering building site safety, it is "your" building site so you should take some steps to control these issues. Via my employee they were bribed to help count the trucks in exchange for a few sweets. Nearest thing to an accident was a un-controlled dog running around in front of the trucks, the dog's owner now understands in no uncertain terms it needs to be controlled.

Other things I remember:

-I measured (get dirty with a tape measure) the truck's capacity before accepting the quote.

-I under estimated the fill by 10%, it was an irregular shape.

-I planned for rain run off and how it would affect the flow of mud from the fill.

-Considered road access to the land, I have about 60 metres road frontage.

-Issues following from the mud left on the road during the work, my employee was tasked to clean this up.

[jayenram]

36 trucks each 8m3

8 m3 trucks are big trucks, especially out in the sticks. The bog standard 4 wheelers up in this part of the sticks carry around 4 m3 of loose earth which in my experience generally compacts to 3.2 m3 or less (the type of earth can vary this figure). Therefore one 4 wheeler load can raise 1 talang wah by around 0.80 metres after initial compaction. One rainy season (which in my opinion is the minimum time to wait before building) would probably result in another 10% settlement.

So - get quotations for delivering earth per truck load (as has been said, the source and distance from the source can significantly vary the price) and work it out from there.

[Bill97]

What kind of dirt do you want? The prices stated are probably for low grade dirt (luk lan) which is good for putting structures or roads on but will not support much plant growth. If you want to grow any but the hardiest plants, you might want to fill some good dirt in the planting areas. If you do for some good dirt, look at a sample first to make sure it is good, then keep the sample isolated to compare to the rest of the deliveries. Heavy clay dirt is not good for planting, sandy is better in my experience.

[songsai]

Thank you all very much for your kind responses.

There's a plan to build a small house(for 2) with some fruit trees and shrubs on that tiny plot of land, or if the situation changes I might have to sell it and go for a nice country place somewhere. Still with the gas price is up and up all the time I feel that I'd rather do it now(filling it up) than wait. It's against the law to burn anything there(I was told) so the debris need to be hauled away, also I think the soil will have to come from the countryside since there's no rice paddies around as far as I can see.

I need to find out about the size of the trucks and how far they have to travel like the suggestions given. I also hope they will give me soil that at least grass can grow! It's not likely that we can hire somebody to be on the watch for us all day. But most likely inspection after each step with payment.

I will ask around more for, perhaps, better deal.

Again I'm really grateful to all for taking time to write. I'm quite new about all this and not a very good negotiator. But with all the knowledge I have learned from the members I hope I will do better.

sincerely,

songsai

[jayenram]

There's a plan to build a small house (for 2)

If you're interested, there are house building pictures and other building information on yorkie's website:

http://freebeerforyorky.com/ (Building a House in Thailand)

Cheers

J

[Ricardo]

What kind of dirt do you want? The prices stated are probably for low grade dirt (luk lan) which is good for putting structures or roads on but will not support much plant growth. If you want to grow any but the hardiest plants, you might want to fill some good dirt in the planting areas. If you do for some good dirt, look at a sample first to make sure it is good, then keep the sample isolated to compare to the rest of the deliveries. Heavy clay dirt is not good for planting, sandy is better in my experience.

We've learned, the hard way, to finish the top with (more expensive) good top-soil, rather than do the whole job with cheaper claggy (in Mae-Jo area) sub-soil. Also worth thinking about using a grader/digger, to dig any ponds you might want, and spread the spoil evenly over the surrounding area. Good Luck !

[Daffy D]

I’m sure this point has been thought off but just in case consider the height of adjoining land fills.

Round here the first to fill his land had no problem with the run off, then when the next guy filled he went a bit higher so as not to get the run off from the first guy.

Same thing happened with every new fill each went a bit higher so eventually the first guy was the lowest point and would get all the run off from the fills round him.

Seen it here.

Daffy.

[Bobby814u]

An interesting endeavor … I would have some other considerations were it my project.

“The area is about 143 sq.wa(572sq.m.?) around BigC area.”

“There's a plan to build a small house (for 2) with some fruit trees and shrubs on that tiny plot of land, or if the situation changes I might have to sell it and go for a nice country place somewhere.”

“There are a few fruit trees (less than ten) which mostly covered with climbing weeds. I asked for the estimate from one party to clear up the land (fall the trees, dig up roots and haul away), and fill with soil up to 50cms.”

Trading a small high end low lying urban property for a larger … nice country place somewhere … is just one thought, muse on. And while cruising about scoping out those nice country places … take a little notice of those tree nursery’s along the Ring Road and out back in Mae Joe … where whole trees have been dug up, “balled & burlapped” with coconut muff and shade cloth ... .

Muse on … On! on!

Bb’er

[mautourproblem]

anyone knowing the current price per cubic/truck?

[gotlost]

anyone knowing the current price per cubic/truck?

Friend of mine just had 1117 5 meter truck loads for 3.6 rai at 500 baht a load thats 558,500 baht of fill in San Sai.

[carlosacao]

Does anybody know, once the land has been filled, how much time should be given for the new soil to settle before starting construction? Thanks guys.

[dmax]

going rate per trunk load of din (landfill) is 800 thb for big stones , actually they arent much bigger than the small stones , and small stone din is 550 thb per truck load, make sure all the trucks are well filled up as they will surely try to give you smaller loads !! though your covering quite a large area of land they should give you the din a lot cheaper.

[dmax]

some people say let the landfill settle for one rainy season before starting build, but others say you can build right away though it depends on foundations etc also obviosly if it was x paddy fields then you couldnt start building right away , im no expert but i just built a house in isaan 3 mths ago - my isaan bungalow parts 1,2,3,4 and i built right away on the landfill though i only filled land with around 10 ",s i think it was also there was a good 20" of grade A beam concrete poured for the floor plus it was only a single story bungalow so highly unlikley to fall down or sink.

[carlosacao]

Thanks Dmax, good info.

some people say let the landfill settle for one rainy season before starting build, but others say you can build right away though it depends on foundations etc also obviosly if it was x paddy fields then you couldnt start building right away , im no expert but i just built a house in isaan 3 mths ago - my isaan bungalow parts 1,2,3,4 and i built right away on the landfill though i only filled land with around 10 ",s i think it was also there was a good 20" of grade A beam concrete poured for the floor plus it was only a single story bungalow so highly unlikley to fall down or sink.

[gotlost]

Generally in our area if the fill is on rice people will let it set for one year which is a pretty good rule.

[whiterussian]

Generally, the soil (earth is a better term as it has rocks etc.) is dug from someone's land where a fish pond is being planned. The contractor digs the hole free and the person that wants the land fill pays for delivery etc.

WOW! Thanks for this info!

[jaideeguy]

Ya want more info, then go to the 'do it yourself housing' subforum on thaivisa and read my post on 'cracks in the walls' and you will find out about the results of building on former rice land and not doing it correctly. And it probably is a safe assumption that all land outside the superhiway was rice land in the last decade.

Best foundations for clay riceland soil is to drive cement piles down into the earth as deep as possible. A bit extra expense in the beginning will save you lots of agony in the future. My 12 yr old house built the wrong way is now full of cracks.....luckily cosmetic and not structural, but unsightly and continuous and no real cure for it. And my house is only one storey......imagine if you build a 2 story house.....the weight concentrated down on a soupy soil [in the wet season] and slowly cracking and mooving shrinking rock in the dry season.

A satang of prevention is worth a thousand baht of cure.......

[Donnyboy]

Ya want more info, then go to the 'do it yourself housing' subforum on thaivisa and read my post on 'cracks in the walls' and you will find out about the results of building on former rice land and not doing it correctly. And it probably is a safe assumption that all land outside the superhiway was rice land in the last decade.

Best foundations for clay riceland soil is to drive cement piles down into the earth as deep as possible. A bit extra expense in the beginning will save you lots of agony in the future. My 12 yr old house built the wrong way is now full of cracks.....luckily cosmetic and not structural, but unsightly and continuous and no real cure for it. And my house is only one storey......imagine if you build a 2 story house.....the weight concentrated down on a soupy soil [in the wet season] and slowly cracking and mooving shrinking rock in the dry season.

A satang of prevention is worth a thousand baht of cure.......

good advice

[WinnieTheKhwai]

There's a plan to build a small house (for 2)

If you're interested, there are house building pictures and other building information on yorkie's website:

http://freebeerforyorky.com/ (Building a House in Thailand)

Wow, that's a GREAT site, for all kinds of up-countryish things. Even like the traditional web layout style, kind of retro.

Great topic, this.

[villagefarang]

I will vouch for the pilings as a good idea. We put down 32, eight meter pilings on land that we had built up two meters high. If you build on landfill, you will get settling and cracks even if your house is relatively light.

A traditional wooden Thai house on stilts is a different matter. They are built to flex and give. Concrete is not.

[gotlost]

Beware that the cost per truck includes the tractor work. The cost is usually between 250 to 550 baht per 5m truck. This depends on your location and quality of fill. Also the land fill mafia will not cross over into another's turf

[carlosacao]

Good info jaideeguy, thank you. I've read your other post, well.... this is not going to be easy, I guess it takes a hel_l of a foundation to try to avoid the problem and even so, you never know for sure that it will work 100%.

Ya want more info, then go to the 'do it yourself housing' subforum on thaivisa and read my post on 'cracks in the walls' and you will find out about the results of building on former rice land and not doing it correctly. And it probably is a safe assumption that all land outside the superhiway was rice land in the last decade.

Best foundations for clay riceland soil is to drive cement piles down into the earth as deep as possible. A bit extra expense in the beginning will save you lots of agony in the future. My 12 yr old house built the wrong way is now full of cracks.....luckily cosmetic and not structural, but unsightly and continuous and no real cure for it. And my house is only one storey......imagine if you build a 2 story house.....the weight concentrated down on a soupy soil [in the wet season] and slowly cracking and mooving shrinking rock in the dry season.

A satang of prevention is worth a thousand baht of cure.......

[mautourproblem]

In Sarapee I got an offer on 600B per truck of 5 cubic, and 5000 for clearing of trees and roots.