Tourists Killed Near Death Bridge

[damnaam]

I feel deep sorrow for their relatives in the U.K...

This happened in the same country that I've seen a gun pulled on a couple of pissed-up falangs in a bar in Phuket last winter who accused their Thai opponents of cheating in a game of pool. So, agreed, different rules, you have to watch what you say, whether you think you're right or not... This applies to virtually anywhere in the world, outside of your own region.

[Darlek]

Tragic, all my condoleances to their friends and families. I wonder what the dispute was about.

it seems the brit guy didnt like somebody ogling his gal and turned stroppy .

i have met these sorts of guys before if you happen to look in the general direction of their girl they become threatening .

looks like the brit guy may have asked for trouble.

[BackPackThailand]

I am an expat Brit living in Kanchanaburi. This has been all over radio and TV today.

The shootings happened after an arguement about football between the English couple and a drunken policeman out of his head on both booze AND ya-ba!

This is shocking for our small corner of paradise. The copper has been detained, but knowing the Thai authorities, he won't get any "real" time. His punishment will be standard fare for ex-coppers...immediate retirement with FULL pension!

What's happening to my town..??

This IS NOT BKK, Samui or Phuket!

[BackPackThailand]

Quick follow up....

Not that the drunken copper was a total pr*ck or anything, but having shot the English guy twice, he then decided to run over the girl in his truck.

Then, having battered her with his truck, he got out and shot her three times, just to make sure.

---snip---

Edited September 9, 2004 by george

[davethailand]

Tragic, all my condoleances to their friends and families. I wonder what the dispute was about.

it seems the brit guy didnt like somebody ogling his gal and turned stroppy .

i have met these sorts of guys before if you happen to look in the general direction of their girl they become threatening .

looks like the brit guy may have asked for trouble.

even if he asked for trouble did he and his partner deserve to be murdered by a <deleted> coward with a gun.

[bkk barney]

(I had a Thai guy in a car aim a Magnum at me when he wanted me to move out the way on the road near Chonburi...)

i doubt that it was a magnum as the ammo is to difficult to get hold of here, ok a 357 u can stick 38s in it, but up until a couple of years ago any thai could get a license for anything upto 38 or 9mm, yep they can carry it in there car but it is supposed to be in the boot and not loaded, but the police if they find it will just warn u if it is loaded and in ur glove compartment, but, if u know a relatively high up pig he will write a letter to accompany you so u can actually carry it loaded with you on ur person in their district.

even police aint allowed to carry outside of their district, but they do, thats why the laws aint enforced

[Rinrada]

Slightly different angle from another news ageancy:

09 Sep 2004 13:14:49 GMT

Source: Reuters

The couple got into a noisy argument at a small restaurant owned by Detective Sargeant Somchai Visetsingha near Kanchanaburi, 125 km (80 miles) west of Bangkok, at around 4 a.m. (2100 GMT Wednesday), a senior police officer said.

Somchai tried to mediate, then got into a loud argument with the couple himself before offering them a ride back to their hotel, he said.

Somchai shot the man after an argument broke out between them during the trip, the woman tried to flee but the detective shot her, said the senior policeman, who asked not to be named

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/BKK163316.htm

[Felt 35]

Perhaps one of the problems is that every Thai man, woman (and maybe child), seems to have access to a gun.

Well that they carry guns tops it up. But the problem, I see every day and sometimes it expand into something tragic as this and unfortunately it hit peaceful visitors.

Careless all the way.

[Nam Kao]

Alcohol........

Wreckahol

[madmitch]

I hope that the English language press follow the trial in this case. Regardless of any provocation, which has only been speculated upon at this stage, the guy is a cold-blooded murderer and should get life. Anything less will be a travesty.

Secondly, this is not quite what the Thai tourist industry needs at the moment. Heavy handed police enforcing unnecessary bar closing times, speculative raids on bars for drugs, shorter shopping hours, violence in the south, the return of bird flu and now tourist police shooting and killing those they are there to protect. What next?

[Heng]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3640188.stm

According to the BBC website there was an altercation when the UK guy took umbrage at the way some guys were looking at his girlfriend.

"Police Major Chavalit Piakaews said: "The male tourist was apparently upset by the way other people in the shop looked at his girlfriend and his jealousy got out of control."

Very sad case.

Yes i can imagine a Brit saying "What the ###### are you all looking at" Very sad case.

There are plenty of places in the world where saying that will get you killed. Try going to Compton, Harlem, or even East Austin and saying something disrespectful to the homies.

[jimbim]

I don't think anyone in the media knows at this point what happened. I've read several stories that all take a different tack, with conflicting information.

A story is running in the Bkk Post tomorrow (today!?) that the English woman apparently returned home with the cop one night, I suppose for sex.

Murkier and murkier.

[usatrader]

These two senseless deaths are a most tragic and sad affair indeed.

As someone in their commentary pointed, whether a visitor in SoHo, East LA, Paris or whatever city or country, it is most essential to turn on the self preservation radar and avoid conflicting situations with your hosts like your very life depended on it. As it can!

There is absolutely no, I repeat no, Utopian paradise where more than one human exist, free of potential conflict where no harm and death can befall you!

This concept of paradise is without doubt, for today’s traveler to foreign shores, a rationalized intellectualized dreamer’s myth that brings disservice and harm to those that have so much false hope that it exists.

As a wild beast of the forest is beautiful, tranquil and even warmly cuddly, they will maul you if you do not respect their lethal potential. Enjoy paradise but treat it with the lethal respect it deserves.

Alcohol, drugs and outsider conflict with locals are like mixing explosives and electricity occasionally uneventful but sometimes permanently eventful.

As visitors, the time honored traveler knows, we will enviably come out on the short end in most of these conflicting situations with locals no matter where we are.

I have been staying for months at time in Thailand over the last 26 years and have for the most part felt relatively safe. But I go out of my way to avoid westerners, their gathering places and I am purposefully nearly wimpishly respectful and conflict avoidant in my dealing with Thai’s or strangers unknown to me.

I am also aware some correctly or incorrectly point out, that Thailand is 3rd in the world in Murders with a firearm and 8th in murders overall.

(source http://www.nationmaster.com) Situational awareness!

But, like many places throughout the world where I am an outsider, I know I must always be attuned with situational awareness perceiving danger when there is but the slightest provocation it exists and being aware of exit strategies if I inadvertently come up on the unexpected conflict.

But as we all know if the fickled finger of fate goes against me, I always risk being in the wrong place with the wrong people at the wrong time.

But for Karma go, I and you, as these poor souls to Karma’s deadly fate!

That is all!

[sassienie]

I heard on the Thai news today that the English couple were girlfriend/boyfriend and that the woman had embarked in an affair with a Thai policeman.

Later the woman decided to return to her boyfriend. The policeman became jealous leading to calamitous consequences for the couple.

Each year many Farangs are murdered in Thailand, but these are mainly persons that are somehow involved with undesirable people and undesirable professions, such as drug dealing, girl trafficking, smuggling and other illegal activities, plus of course pure stupidity.

If the statement given out on the Thai news today is correct, than this incident gives the semblance that the woman took a huge risk going off with an unknown for what she maybe thought was just a bit of an adventure and excitement. Surely the dangers are obvious and this pertains to women all over the world.

My advice to those residing here in Thailand or just visiting, is to keep your head down, go on with your normal business, behave proper and do not get suaded into becoming involved in any activities that appear dubious, outside the law and if you want to play, play it safe.

Regarding crime statisics in the Kingdom, I still feel much safer walking after dark in the streets of Bangkok and other Thailand cities, than in London and the UK.

For those who would prefer to enjoy their lives in Thailand by safety and happiness, whether residing or visiting, really only need to remember the following: COMMON SENSE PREVAILS.

[Foggy Bottom]

I heard on the Thai news today that the English couple were girlfriend/boyfriend and that the woman had embarked in an affair with a Thai policeman.

This fits the Modus Operandi of the tourist policeman repeatedly mentioned in connection with, and often accused of, the Kirsty Jones rape and strangulation in Chiangmai 3 years ago, by many people throughout this city.

It also appears that he was never questioned or interviewed, the Welsh CID were denied access to him, and he was transferred out of Chiangmai to an unknown location very swiftly after that murder.

Wonder if it's the same guy - Kirsty was roughly same age as this lass.

On another train of thought ......

If as some reports are suggesting, the Kanchanaburi policeman owned the restaurant where the original argument took place, then what on earth are his superiors thinking of?

Obviously it was commonplace for it to be open until 4am - against the law and an act that would bring the Royal Thai Police into disrepute, and a conflict of interest - why was he never pulled up on it? Additionally, are Thai police persons contravening their contract when they operate a private business in parallel with their police employment (as is the case in most developed and civilised societies)?

All 3 of those points bears investigation from the police disciplinary authorities and some wrists heavily slapped (nationwide).

[Mr Hugh Jarse]

Deepest sympathies to the relaives and friends of the deceased couple. What a sad and tragic loss.

Too early to tell just what really happened before the killings. Could it be that this is yet another example of a foreigner insulting a hypersensitive Thai male's ego resulting in a loss of face?

Old timers living in Thailand know that you never insult a Thai male without reference to pride and loss of face in that cultural setting. Thailand had c. 13,000 murders last year? The highest in South-east Asia I believe.

Yet another instance of how dangerous Thailand can be for the naieve.

Again though, lets see how this one unfolds.

[medicinebox]

The assailant was trying to provoke the lad, by telling him to hit him. Like somehow that would justify his actions. But he had already made his mind up hadn't he. Cold blood.

Thais generally think of you as "not of interest" to them. Like a vicious dog chewing a bone, it will let you walk by. But god help you if it turns its attention to you. This leaves you with a false sense of security.

Like diving with sharks. If only they knew how vulnerable you were. Im amazed that we don't have more problems than we do. I mean, do they know what little rights we have? That they could set us up, blackmail us, rob us on a huge scale and most likely get away with it???

Maybe they are starting to realize what a soft target we are.

My condolences to the families.

[Felt 35]

My advice to those residing here in Thailand or just visiting, is to keep your head down

Why not set up a warning sign at the airport:

Welcome to Thailand. Please keep your head down because the Police is trained for shooting but not trained to control their temper.

[Felt 35]

Each year many Farangs are murdered in Thailand, but these are mainly persons that are somehow involved with undesirable people and undesirable professions, such as drug dealing, girl trafficking, smuggling and other illegal activities, plus of course pure stupidity.

Sure when this story have been through Mr. T`s office (editor) a few times the story is twisted around and all who happen is because of the foreigners stupidity.

[george]

Update (The Nation):

Hunt for police officer 'who shot UK couple'

KANCHANABURI: -- An arrest warrant has been issued for a policeman who is the prime suspect in the killings of two British tourists early yesterday morning.

Senior Sgt-Major Somchai Wisetsing, a 39-year-old unit head at Muang Kanchanaburi police station, was named the chief suspect in the deaths of Adam Geoffrey Lloyd, 25, and Vanessa Claire Arscott, 24, who were gunned down in the streets of Kanchanaburi.

Police were hunting for the suspect after bloodstains were found in his car, Kanchanaburi police chief Maj-General Chaichan Kitichan told The Nation yesterday.

According to witnesses, the British couple drank with a Thai man in a food shop on Maenam Kwae Road.

The neighbourhood, which is close to the famed River Kwai Bridge and Death Railway, is popular among backpackers.

Somchai runs the food shop.

The couple later quarrelled and the woman ran out of the shop crying. Both men then followed in a blue car driven by the Thai man.

Lloyd left the car and assaulted Arscott, police quoted witnesses as saying. Lloyd was also seen attacking the Thai man before walking away with the woman, they said.

The Thai man then drove the car after the couple. Shortly afterwards, shots were heard and Lloyd fell to the ground. A startled Arscott was then hit by the car and dragged along the road for about 150 metres. The driver then left the car and fired a number of shots at the woman.

The assailant fled the scene in his vehicle.

Lloyd and Arscott were rushed to hospital but were pronounced dead shortly after being admitted.

Two gunshot wounds were found in the man's abdomen and left temple. The woman was shot in the chest, neck and left arm.

Yesterday afternoon, police searched Somchai's home in Muang district and discovered fresh bloodstains in his blue Volvo.

The suspect was not home and police met his 61-year-old father at the premises.

An inspection of the crime scene discovered one .38-calibre bullet embedded in the ground, police said.

Due to Somchai's alleged involvement with a serious crime, his supervisors yesterday suspended him from duty, said Lt-General Ukrit Patchimsawat, the commissioner of Police Region 7, which covers Kanchanaburi.

Ukrit inspected the crime scene in the afternoon along with other senior police officers and two officials from the British Embassy in Bangkok.

The embassy officials were briefed about the incident before inspecting the scene.

Caretaker Kanchanaburi governor Toedsak Kannasut expressed his regret over the incident. He also extended his condolences to the embassy officials.

--The Nation 2004-09-10

[surfercaesar]

My regrets and condolences to both victims to this heinous crime.

Please to everyone be aware of where you go and stay on guard at all times when venturing in these places.

Very sad story.

Watujak to the criminal(Karma).

[Mr_Pedantic]

As more and more of the lager louts who usually holiday in Spain or the Balerics find their way to Thailand they will realise that they cannot get away with what they get away with in Spain. I suspect seeing more of this sort of thing happening on a regular basis. A drunk Brit thinks he his is a law unto himself- that goes for the Brit ladies also.

Whoa betide a farang that upsets a Thai that has had a few too many to drink.Their wrath is unmatchable.

[camerata]

Today's Bangkok Post quotes the cop's father as saying his son had brought the British woman back home to spend the night on one occasion.

[spliff]

This is the wild wild west...people are murdered everyday in Khon Kaen according to a friend of mine! It's best to keep your cool and don't get into any shady dealings w/ the police or government here.

[sprq]

Latest Daily Telegraph, London, report -- new twist: kidnap attempt

Backpackers shot dead in Thailand

By Richard Savill and Nick Britten

(Filed: 10/09/2004)

A young British couple on a backpacking holiday in Thailand were shot dead yesterday in what witnesses said was an attempted kidnap by an off-duty policeman.

Adam Lloyd, 25, and Vanessa Arscott, 24, were murdered as they left a restaurant in the tourist resort of Kanchanaburi, on the River Kwai.

Witnesses said Mr Lloyd had been arguing. The policeman intervened, then followed the couple in a car and opened fire.

Mr Lloyd was hit twice in the back, they claimed, before Miss Arscott was run down as she fled. She was then shot three times at close range with a 9mm pistol as she lay in the road.

A warrant was issued for the arrest of Staff Sgt Somchai Wisetsingh, 39, who owns the S & S restaurant where Mr Lloyd and Miss Arscott were eating two days before their planned return to Britain.

Police said at first that the couple, from Devon, became involved in a noisy argument at the small floating restaurant and Somchai had tried to mediate before he was embroiled in the row.

But a Thai police official said later that Somchai had forced Miss Arscott into his car and shot Mr Lloyd when he attempted to rescue her.

"He forced open the door of the car and tried to hit at Somchai and grab the keys," said the official.

"Somchai pulled out his gun as Vanessa ran off down the road.

"He first shot Mark and then drove his car off after Vanessa running her down. Then he shot her with two bullets." Somchai's bloodstained Volvo 460 has been impounded at Kanchanaburi police station.

Col Vej Somboon, of Kanchanaburi police, said: "We hope to get him soon. The witnesses and evidence show that he is the man who gunned down the British tourists."

Capt Chavalit Biewkaow, the case officer, said: "This is not a good matter for Thailand. Somchai was a mild man and good officer. It is hard to believe he has done this."

Miss Arscott's parents, Graham and Joyce, and her sister Alyssa were said last night to be "distraught" after hearing the news of the killings at their home in Holne Cross, near Ashburton, on the edge of Dartmoor.

Mr Lloyd's mother, Linda, runs the Buckingham Lodge hotel, in Torquay, with her husband, Brian.

Adam's three brothers, one of whom is a policeman in London, were travelling to Torquay last night.

[Heng]

Would you go and mouth off to the locals in some dark restaurant, late at night in Russia or Sicily? It's no different here... sans the romantic movies about the place.

[Ijustwannateach]

^Glad to see by your choice of countries for comparison, Heng, that you are aware of the mafiosa nature of Thai society.

"Steven"

[Heng]

There's a significant amount of organized crime, but by no means a "mafioso"society (neither is Sicily or Russia).

[Ijustwannateach]

Gosh, that's right. Thailand is not a mafiosa society, and there is no terrorism here, and no economic crime, and no traffic in Bangkok, and no drug dealers, and no prostitution, and no....

[Heng]

Thailand is not a mafiosa society, you're right on that one.

But there is terrorism, economic crime, plenty of traffic in Bangkok (but not a big deal unless one is on a bus or taxi like yourself, Steve), drug dealers, and plenty of prostitution (long live what's left of the Davis Group, under new management).