Tourists Killed Near Death Bridge

[dksharron]

What is 1/2 of the death penalty?

[Heng]

When the death penalty is halved here, it's a 50 year sentence.

The downside for the victims in this case is that there don't appear to be witnesses to the actual crime itself. If you've ever been to court here, they have you swear an oath (basically the same as any court anywhere) where you swear to tell the truth or may bad things happen to your family and may they not prosper, etc.... in cases where it's the state against the defendant as in this case... NOT the families of the victim against the defendant, the defendant's testimony is basically the main thing that goes on record (as there is very little in terms of cross questioning) and often taken as the defacto truth.

So... if the defendant claims it was self defense (victim going for his gun), committed in rage/temporary insanity, protecting property (robbery of his restaurant), etc.... these are all things that can reduce the sentence.

[dksharron]

The idea that this woman went home with this policeman on several occasions is preposterous. British women do not come to Thailand with their boyfriends and then go off with Thai men. Next thing we will hear is that she spole Thai well or that the policeman could speak English well. Most of what I have read here - which points the finger in any way at the two victims, is based on fabricated information. Thai people rarely intervene in foreign problems - if there ever were one. All of these newspaper stories that we have seen now, which provide "accounts" of the situation, must be taken with a grain of salt, especially by anyone who has lived here in Thailand.

Where did all of these different stories originate? From all of the Kanchanaburians who were not there and did not see or hear what happened, but still gave a story to the police when they went looking for information. This young man is not a Pattaya Drunken Thug Brit. His girlfriend was not some drug seller. And, even if they were, those behaviors do not have a death penality and this low-grade policeman is the not the judge, jury and executioner.

"These two Brits did not pay their bill."

Whoever said that these two did not pay their bill is speculating, or even less, trying to search for a reason that the Thai policeman did this. Let's make it simple. He did it because he is not concerned with the consequences of his actions upon others. He is not concerned with anyone else on this earth otehr than his family. He believes that he can in some way get away with it, or he is not concerned that he cannot get away with it.

"He was rescuing the girl from her boyfriend." Oh, and the best way to do this is by running her over and then shooting her.

"The Brit tried to take the keys and the policeman's gun."

After the policeman drove after them. Does this make a lot of sence?

Why did the ploiceman need to shoot more than once if he only needed to stop the Brit from taking his firearm?

If anyone has an idea how this can be followed, or if anyone has a friend at the nation or the Bangkok Post, please speak up so that someone can come up with an idea to keep this in the media and keep outside eyes on the Kanchanburi police.

[jhj2000]

It is just speculation what happen at the moment. My wife has been translating the Thai new reports for me and her first comment was "Oh dear, Thai police have done bad again" but then I'm not supprised. Her best friends husband who was a prominant Thai government minister got shot a few years ago. the Thai newspapers will perort thier side of the story and the western ones another. Although the police man involved has been in contact with the police, reported in todays Thai newspapers i have my doubts whether this will ever come to trial.

Yes farang women do go to bed with Thai men sometimes.

[jhj2000]

P.S. There are lots of couples that come to Thailand to enjoy sex with other partners. In the west they are called swingers I believe.

[chokrai]

My wifes cousin is married to a ploiceman here and a few weeks ago he was drinking with some friends and got in a fight and shot one of them,the guy wasnt killed but now the cop has to pay him 150000 baht so it wont go to court. Good advice is to stay away from the police here!

[siam]

My wifes cousin is married to a ploiceman here and a few weeks ago he was drinking with some friends and got in a fight and shot one of them,the guy wasnt killed but now the cop has to pay him 150000 baht so it wont go to court. Good advice is to stay away from the police here!

I will be marrying into a Thai police family soon,rather have them on my side than against me any day

These shootings needs to be answered,They can't cover this lot up surely?

[Heng]

They don't need to cover it up. People forget, news fades away. It's sometimes difficult to just navigate the country and communicate with the people, much less to come here to participate in a local police investigation and trial. Family members coming over and being loud and rude to the cops or press probably isn't going to improve the situation.

[sprq]

Several posters have made comments like "people forget, news fades away" but I never expected it so soon. I've just checked out the online Nation and Bangkok Post and could not find any reference at all to this murder in today's editions.

One day later it's forgotten?? Or do the print editions contain something?

[LadyinRed]

Update from CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/09/1...tons/index.html

[lopburi3]

Several posters have made comments like "people forget, news fades away" but I never expected it so soon. I've just checked out the online Nation and Bangkok Post and could not find any reference at all to this murder in today's editions.

One day later it's forgotten?? Or do the print editions contain something?

Nothing in Bangkok Post today. But this is normal for all stories. Follow-up reporting does not happen very often.

[Crush]

I will be marrying into a Thai police family soon,rather have them on my side than against me any day

These shootings needs to be answered,They can't cover this lot up surely?

The most likely person do do physical harm to you is a close friend or a family member, not a complete stranger.

Good luck with the new family that carry guns.

[DJ Pat]

The idea that this woman went home with this policeman on several occasions is preposterous. British women do not come to Thailand with their boyfriends and then go off with Thai men. Next thing we will hear is that she spole Thai well or that the policeman could speak English well. Most of what I have read here - which points the finger in any way at the two victims, is based on fabricated information. Thai people rarely intervene in foreign problems - if there ever were one. All of these newspaper stories that we have seen now, which provide "accounts" of the situation, must be taken with a grain of salt, especially by anyone who has lived here in Thailand.

Where did all of these different stories originate? From all of the Kanchanaburians who were not there and did not see or hear what happened, but still gave a story to the police when they went looking for information. This young man is not a Pattaya Drunken Thug Brit. His girlfriend was not some drug seller. And, even if they were, those behaviors do not have a death penality and this low-grade policeman is the not the judge, jury and executioner.

"These two Brits did not pay their bill."

Whoever said that these two did not pay their bill is speculating, or even less, trying to search for a reason that the Thai policeman did this. Let's make it simple. He did it because he is not concerned with the consequences of his actions upon others. He is not concerned with anyone else on this earth otehr than his family. He believes that he can in some way get away with it, or he is not concerned that he cannot get away with it.

"He was rescuing the girl from her boyfriend." Oh, and the best way to do this is by running her over and then shooting her.

"The Brit tried to take the keys and the policeman's gun."

After the policeman drove after them. Does this make a lot of sence?

Why did the ploiceman need to shoot more than once if he only needed to stop the Brit from taking his firearm?

If anyone has an idea how this can be followed, or if anyone has a friend at the nation or the Bangkok Post, please speak up so that someone can come up with an idea to keep this in the media and keep outside eyes on the Kanchanburi police.

Don't be naiive.

[Heng]

It is odd......

-that there are reports that the boyfriend assaulted the girlfriend.

-that the boyfriend and cop went looking for the girl and then somehow started arguing among themselves

[Goat Roper]

I will be marrying into a Thai police family soon,rather have them on my side than against me any day 

These shootings needs to be answered,They can't cover this lot up surely?

The most likely person do do physical harm to you is a close friend or a family member, not a complete stranger.

Good luck with the new family that carry guns.

Most all Thai people that I know here that are willing to express an opinion about the Police force all consider them(the police) to be double edge swords, they cut both ways, as for myself I give all the police in LOS a wide berth., do not want to get mixed up with them in any shape, form or fashion. that's my saleungs worth.

[Ice Treasure]

It's hardly surprising. IBMotormouth et al just need to get their rocks off and this is how they do it.

It's interesting how months later the forum can be a source of "news" as opposed to opinions and can actually change a familys' life quite dramatically. To the family, they didn't deserve it at all. IBMotormouth is in his cups 24/7 to write stuff like that, considering he neither reads, writes or speaks Thai, reads only the English Press and has no Thai friends.

He has a regular lady he refers to as his "wife" but only occasionally, and what has this got to do with anything? Nothing..this is how threads get lost in the discussion. Ladies and Gents it is all opinion unless you KNOW the facts, first hand.

[Savage]

I consider everything i've read in the newspapers (Thai and UK) to be rubbish. I fear we will never find out what really happened.

[Johpa]

Thailand is not a mafiosa society, you're right on that one.

To paraphrase a recent book on worldwide crime syndicates, the reason neither the Russian or Chinese criminal syndicates, which are both very active throughout Asia, have such a small presence in Thailand is due to the entrenched criminal power of the Thai police. One would not expect to find mafioso type criminal structures in a country where the police themselves function in that role.

[Heng]

No argument there.

[Ijustwannateach]

^So now we're agreed that Thailand is a mafiosa society, as long as you remember that the police ARE the mafia? Someone on another thread was worrying that Thailand would continue to be overrun with tourists- my reply there was that incidents just such as this one would be enough to keep the numbers down over time.

(responding to a few pages back)- doesn't get under my skin, Heng- does demonstrate how out of touch you are- also demonstrates to everyone else your character, but I guess you won't need my help to do that. You're a popular guy with fans everywhere you go!

"Steven"

[bkk barney]

heng does like to imply that teachers and ppl of that ilk have no money and lead worthless lives, still heng used to be an english teacher so im sure hes right

[bkk barney]

I consider everything i've read in the newspapers (Thai and UK) to be rubbish. I fear we will never find out what really happened.

unfortuneately, as the only living witness is the policeman, and he has a pretty good understanding of the law, im pretty sure he will make up a good story.

ie the boyfriend was driving the car chasing his galfriend, policeman in the passenger seat, boyfriend runs over galfriend then grabs policemens gun and shoots her, policemen then gets the gun back and in the struggle shot the boyfriend, by then its probably too late to take swabs from the boyfriends hands, and im sure all his fellow police buddies will go along with this version of a story.

still we can all hope that justice will prevail but i for one doubt it...

[Heng]

^So now we're agreed that Thailand is a mafiosa society, as long as you remember that the police ARE the mafia?  Someone on another thread was worrying that Thailand would continue to be overrun with tourists- my reply there was that incidents just such as this one would be enough to keep the numbers down over time.

(responding to a few pages back)- doesn't get under my skin, Heng- does demonstrate how out of touch you are- also demonstrates to everyone else your character, but I guess you won't need my help to do that.  You're a popular guy with fans everywhere you go!

"Steven"

Since when are the police (not to mention that not all police are involved in rackets of any sort) all of society, Steve? May as well generalize that Americans are all NBA fans.

:D

[Heng]

heng does like to imply that teachers and ppl of that ilk have no money and lead worthless lives, still heng used to be an english teacher so im sure hes right

Since when did I imply that Barney? You're assuming again. You're the one that takes picture of your "money."

[george]

Update:

MURDER ON THE RIVER KWAI TWIST

Witness to Thai murders

KANCHANABURI: -- A key witness has told how she saw two British backpackers murdered near the Bridge on the River Kwai.

She claims to have seen Adam Lloyd, 25, and 23-year-old girlfriend Vanessa Arscott have a furious row moments before they were brutally slain.

The local woman, who refuses to be named, says Adam then punched their alleged killer - police sergeant Somchai Wisetsingh, 39 - in the face.

She spoke out as police faced a wall of silence over the deaths in the Thai resort of Kanchanaburi - with six other witnesses refusing to testify.

The 26-year-old told journalists: "No one in their right mind would give evidence against the police here - or anywhere else in Thailand."

She went on: "I was in the Resort Restaurant when I saw the girl Vanessa walk past in the direction of her guest house. It was not 3am as police say, but much earlier - 12.30 or 1am.

"Then along came a Volvo car with Somchai and a foreigner I now know to be Adam in the passenger seat.

"Adam got out and started arguing with Vanessa.

"I could not hear what they were saying but I saw Somchai get out and tell Adam to be quiet.

"Adam turned round and shouted, 'F*** off!' - and hit Somchai in the face. Somchai walked back to his car. I saw him sitting in the driving seat and then shoot Adam through the window. There were two shots. This was very close to a bar where many people were eating and drinking.

"Vanessa ran round to hide behind the car. Somchai put the car in reverse and ran over her. He reversed 150 metres down the road towards the S and S Cafe, dragging her under the car.

"Then he stopped. He inched forward, to get clear of her body, then got out of the car. I did not see the gun being fired, but I heard the shots and so did several people in the restaurant."

Wisetsingh, who fled the scene, offered to give himself up yesterday on condition he was granted bail - but police rejected his offer.

Local police chief General Chaichan Kitichan said: "It is not in our power to do deals in such a case."

Colleagues described Wisetsingh as a "gentle man".

But the Thai press have dubbed him a womaniser who became enraged when his advances were rejected by "the polite foreign woman".

Vanessa's parents Joyce and Graham, of Ashburton, Devon, were still in shock last night. Adams' parents, Lynne and Brian, who run a hotel in nearby Torquay, said: "We're totally shattered."

--The Mirror UK, 2004-09-11

[bkk barney]

(but not a big deal unless one is on a bus or taxi like yourself, Steve)

I always know I've won an argument with Heng when he has to resort to speculations about my economic mode of life!

But to get back on topic, though my initial sympathies are with the dead people (they ARE the dead people, after all!) I've met enough reelly stoopid people here to know that one has to learn to full story.

Think the guy's actually going to do any time or lose his job?

"Steven"

hehehheheh

[dksharron]

The idea that this woman went home with this policeman on several occasions is preposterous.

“Don't be naiive.”

And we are supposed to believe that the only couple murdered by a policeman this year, the woman is also sleeping with the policeman while her boyfriend is still with her. The likelihood of that is rather minute. She was not single and he was not an attractive hotel employee.

“Somchai's father, Sunthorn, alleged: "The two foreigners came here three or four times and ate and drank here. They were sitting at a table with Somchai and I saw no argument. I think the 'farangs' [foreigners] were penniless. The man wanted to give his girlfriend to my son for money."”

That is something that no foreigner would ever think of – spare a minute percentage. We, in the West do not think of our girlfriends and or wives as a commodity that we have any right to sell. Maybe someone like his son would do something so despicable, but the idea that young Brits would do that is highly unlikely. Anyone out there who starts to believe the father’s story about his son the murderer is very foolish and new to the country.

“Yes farang women do go to bed with Thai men sometimes.”

When they are here with their boyfriends? I do not think so. Some single women come to Samui and might go with some young nice-looking guy, but that ugly 38 year old policeman??? Not a chance. Policemen are far from charming as well.

“P.S. There are lots of couples that come to Thailand to enjoy sex with other partners. In the west they are called swingers I believe.”

Western couples come here to share the GIRLS!!!!!!!! They do not come here so that the boyfriend can share his girlfriend with a Thai man. He can share her with another man in his own country if that was what they were looking for. They come here so that they can both enjoy a nice, attractive slender young girl whom neither of them could get in their own country. And, they pay the girls well for the services. They are not swapping or even sharing, they are both getting a young girl that they want.

“I will be marrying into a Thai police family soon, rather have them on my side than against me any day These shootings needs to be answered, They can't cover this lot up surely?”

My wife lives in a small city in Nongkhai Province. My mother was staying there for a few months. During this time, two different policemen killed their wives or wealthy girlfriends. Neither man served a day in jail. The joke around town was that the criminal had been apprehended and was in the police station. It was a joke as everyone knew it was the policeman. In the other case, the mother of the murdered woman asked the court not to sentence the policeman as then there would be no one to take care of the children.

If you can avoid marrying a policeman, you should do it.

Dear Moderator,

If you are able to put a group together which could contribute in any way to the assistance of the parents, please email me and I will be happy to contribute. Or, if you have any other ideas on any way in which we can see that some form of justice can be done, please do so and I will be happy to assist in th organization and the financial support.

I assume that you have my email address connected to my sign-in name

[Heng]

Indecent Proposal. It's not so unbelievable that the two kids were low on funds.

[george]

Kanchanaburi police step up manhunt for killer of UK tourists

KANCHANABURI: -- Police in Thailand's western province of Kanchanaburi today held an intense meeting to work out new strategies in the hunt for the murderer of two young British tourists shot near the River Kwai Bridge on Wednesday morning, while continuing to insist that it would not be difficult to find the police sergeant who has emerged as the prime suspect.

Speaking after the meeting at the provincial police headquarters, Pol. Maj. Gen. Chokdee Anuphabdet, deputy commissioner of the 7th Regional Police Division, reiterated yesterday's assertion that the police now had clear leads on Pol. Sgt. Maj. Somchai Wisetsingh, thought to have murdered Miss Vanessa Arscott and Mr. Adam Lloyd after an argument in a local caft.

His remarks, however, were undermined by the fact that the police sergeant remained at large today, and if the police knew anything about his whereabouts, they were not giving it away.

Investigators have discovered traces and blood and flesh in the back of the police sergeant's car, but senior officers have said that more evidence is needed before they can issue an arrest warrant.

But the international media attention on the case has prompted the police to take the affair seriously, evidenced today by the appearance of Pol. Lt. Gen. Ukkrit Patchimsawat, commissioner of the 7th Regional Police Division, at the scene of the crime for the fourth day running.

TNA 2004-09-11

[george]

Update:

Police hunt for officer suspect in murder case

Intensive manhunt launched after two British tourists shot dead in Kanchanaburi

KANCHANABURI: -- The police force has launched an intensive manhunt for one of its own officers who allegedly shot and killed two British tourists in Kanchanaburi.

Police from various units have been mobilised to find Pol Snr Sgt-Maj Somchai Wisetsing, 39, of Muang district police station, said tourist police commander Pol Maj-Gen Panya Mamen.

Pol Snr Sgt-Maj Somchai is suspected of having shot to death Adam Geoffrey Lloyd, 25, and Vanessa Claire Arscott, 24 on Sept 9.

The victims were walking on a road by the Kwai river in Muang district when the officer, with whom they had formed a friendship, approached them in a car and opened fire. Officer Somchai and Arscott reportedly had an affair and he argued with Lloyd prior to the shooting.

``The tourist police, the immigration police, the highway police and the Crime Suppression Division are keeping watch. Officers have been sent to possible hide-outs or escape routes,'' he said.

The search, involving hundreds of police, is focused on Kanchanaburi, Bangkok, Nakhon Nayok, Tak, Phitsanulok and Narathiwat.

Pol Maj-Gen Panya said it was unlikely the suspect fled the country. Investigators had also run checks on his financial transactions and found no activity.

He admitted it would be hard to track down Pol Snr Sgt-Maj Somchai, who is an experienced investigator. ``He was assigned to investigate major cases in the province. He knows how it works and how to elude us,'' he said.

Police have raided at least five venues with the latest raid taking place at an apartment in Pathum Thani's Thanyaburi district.

The apartment was bought by Suksiri Maenbutr, the suspect's wife.

The building's staff said the couple had not been there for a long while.

Pol Maj-Gen Chaicharn Kittichan, chief of Kanchanaburi police, said police would do their best to find the assailant as international relationships were at stake.

``We can't afford to lose any more time.

``This is a big case. I told every policeman who might be contacted by the suspect to persuade him to turn himself in,'' he said.

Pol Lt-Gen Ukrit Patchimsawat, Police Region 7 commissioner, said investigators were keeping the British embassy informed.

He had imposed no deadline but told the police to work fast.

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, meanwhile, has told authorities to find the suspect as soon as possible.

``It's a big news story in England. I told them to leave no stone unturned,'' he said.

Mr Thaksin said the case should not hurt the relationship between the countries, provided investigators do their job well.

--The Post 2004-09-12