BA Flight Lands Short Of Runway at London Airport

[LaoPo]

All over Television news now in UK and Europe/US:

BA flight lands short of runway

Passengers have been led to safety after a passenger jet landed short of the runway at Heathrow Airport.

The plane was British Airways flight BA38 from Beijing to London.

Six ambulances were sent to the scene and three people are being reported for minor injuries. Emergency services remain at the scene.

The incident happened as Prime Minister Gordon Brown was due to leave Heathrow for China and India. His flight was delayed because of the incident.

Eyewitness John Rowland said: "The plane's wheels collapsed, doors were flown open.

"On its approach it took the runway too low, just missing the roof of my cab.

"It crashed into the runway, debris was flying everywhere, there was an enormous bang and it skidded sideways."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england...don/7194086.stm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...heathrow117.xml

It certainly will cause -long- delays for in- and outbound flights, including to and from Thailand.

LaoPo

Edited January 17, 2008 by LaoPo

[jingjoe]

Glad to hear no-one died.

[seonai]

Thanks for this Lao Po. Top marks for quick reporting !!! This could have been really bad, thank goodness the pilot landed it where he did

[george]

British Airways 777 in Crash Landing at Heathrow (Update3)

LONDON-HEATHROW: -- -- A British Airways Plc flight from China made a crash landing at London's Heathrow airport, injuring three people and delaying flights.

The Boeing Co. 777 widebody aircraft operating flight BA038 from Beijing touched down at 12:42 p.m. local time, airport owner BAA Ltd. said in a statement.

Television pictures showed the 777 at the edge of the runway apron with the grass behind it furrowed for several hundred yards where the aircraft had scraped along. Escape chutes were deployed and fire trucks sprayed the plane with foam. One wing appeared damaged and landing gear was crushed.

``We are very proud of the way our crew safely evacuated all 136 passengers on board with only three minor injuries,'' Willie Walsh, chief executive officer of London-based British Airways, said in a statement today.

Heathrow's southern runway was closed after the incident, BAA said, with the northern one open. U.K. Prime Minister Gordon Brown's plane was among departures that were delayed, with the pilot informing those aboard that a ``significant incident'' had occurred at the airport, Europe's busiest.

The 777-200 aircraft, registration G-YMMM, was built by Boeing in 2001. The twin-engine plane is powered by Rolls- Royce Group Plc Trent 800 engines and had accumulated 23,476 flying hours as of Dec. 31, 2006, according to data on the Web site of the U.K. Civil Aviation Authority, which will investigate the incident.

``All we can say at this point is, we look forward to helping with the investigation as we are invited to participate,'' said Jim Proulx, a Boeing spokesman in Seattle.

Crowded Airport

Heathrow is operating at 99 percent of its government- permitted flight capacity. The tightly packed take-off and landing schedule means even minor glitches at the airport can have a knock-on effect on its operations.

Poor weather may have been a factor in the incident, which didn't appear to be a premeditated emergency landing, said Robert Cullemore, a consultant with Aviation Economics in London.

``From all sources, it would seem that something must have happened in the minutes or seconds prior to touching down,'' Cullemore said. ``Windshear, a sudden burst of wind, is the most likely culprit.''

British Airways will most likely have to write off the damaged aircraft and may consequently face operational difficulties, he said.

``BA's safety record is exemplary and the rapid evacuation of the passengers without loss of life is a tribute to their safety commitment,'' he said.

--Agencies 2008-01-17

[Maestro]

From the linked article in The Telegraph:

A Heathrow airport spokesman said: "A British Airways flight arriving from Beijing carried out an emergency landing at 12.42pm.

If the aircraft had no serious technical problems – and there is nothing in the news reports to indicate that it hat – I believe it is wrong to call this an emergency landing. When a pilot touches down his plane short of the runway I would call it a crash landing.

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

...This could have been really bad, thank goodness the pilot landed it where he did

Still better, of course, would have been if he had put the plane down on the runway. He will have a few questions to answer.

Can’t they land these things on autopilot nowadays?

--

Maestro

[Tywais]

...This could have been really bad, thank goodness the pilot landed it where he did

Still better, of course, would have been if he had put the plane down on the runway. He will have a few questions to answer.

Can’t they land these things on autopilot nowadays?

--

Maestro

From George's topic post there is suggestions of possible wind shear which would give the pilot little time or choice as to where it goes.

[george]

3 treated for injuries after plane makes emergency landing at Heathrow

LONDON (AP): -- Only minor injuries are being reported after a British Airways passenger jet made an emergency landing short of the runway at Heathrow airport.

Authorities say all the passengers on the flight from Beijing to London were evacuated, and at least three were treated for minor injuries following the incident.

The incident forced Prime Minister Gordon Brown to delay his trip to China. His plane was on the runway waiting to take off.

Britain's Press Association is reporting that the Boeing 777 appeared to land just yards from a busy perimeter road. The report also says the impact wrecked the undercarriage and caused extensive damage to both wings.

Planes are still taking off and landing on Heathrow's northern runway.

--Agencies 2008-01-17

[Cobalt60]

Looks and sounds from eye witness reports, he was short of power, he is reported as having a high angle of attack on last few seconds of approach, strange noise from engine and then dumped it on the front lawn, ripped of the main undercarriage, nosewheel intact and then came to rest on the start of the runway.

Edited January 17, 2008 by Cobalt60

[onethailand]

Latest reports indicate the aircraft lost all power. That makes 2 in 3 weeks for BA/Qantas...

An airport worker told the BBC's Angus Crawford that the plane's pilot said he had lost all power and electronics, and had to glide the aircraft in.

[Maestro]

From Sky News:

...The wheels of the Boeing 777 had come out as it went for touchdown moments before it dropped out of the sky... Paul Venter, who was on board the stricken aircraft, said: "We came in to land, I could hear the undercarriage come out and the next moment the plane just dropped."

I believe we have some pilots on ThaiVisa and shall wait for them to say whether the landing gear has perhaps been run out a bit late.

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

...suggestions of possible wind shear...

I have seen that reported here as a speculation made by a consultant with Aviation Economics in London.

The evaluation of the black box should provide the facts, also confirm whether there was a sudden loss of all power. This examination will take a few weeks, I guess, and until then we shall hear more speculation, I’m sure.

--

Maestro

[londonthai]

as to the passenger report "the undercarrage came out" can mean as well that the aircraft lost the undercarrage while already on the runway and than crushed down.

the landing gear is set many minutes before approaching the airport - without it it hasn't got a permission to land

[seonai]

Just been on BBC news that the pilot lost ALL power and did an absolutely sterling job, brought the nose up then 'belly flopped' it onto the grass just before the runway. It skidded along quite a way and then came to a halt off the right hand side. A passenegr on board said there was no panic and that the crew were brilliant, shoots opened within minutes and the entire passenger group evacuated also in minutes.

The people at the airport say the pilot 'deserves a medal'

[seonai]

Looks like the undercarriage/wheels were sheared off as it belly flopped onto the grass. Just heard the cab driver speak, he said the plane passed about 25 feet above his car

[Maestro]

Looks and sounds from eye witness reports, he was short of power, he is reported as having a high angle of attack on last few seconds of approach, strange noise from engine and then dumped it on the front lawn, ripped of the main undercarriage, nosewheel intact and then came to rest on the start of the runway.

You have given no link but I read the same as having been said by a passenger. As I do not know how expert this passenger is about flying I do not know how much credence to give to his report. If I remember correctly from the landings I experienced as a passenger, it is normal for the engine sound to change shortly before touchdown.

As regards angle of approach, if the aircraft suddenly dropped as told by another passenger, as when hitting an air pocket, I guess that does something to the angle of approach with the plane being so close to touchdown.

--

Maestro

[onethailand]

I was thinking the same thing myself - if the pilot lost all power, then he hit exactly where he wanted to - without power, just over the fence, on the grass in softer ground than the runway.

That, to me, would make the pilot a hero.

But let's see what the later reports say.

BTW, Maestro - all the pictures on TV, plus whatever pictures you can find on BBC or CNN, graphically show the tire marks and the skid marks - and it is quite clear that the pilot dropped the undercarriage perfectly aligned - and there is no mark which shows the nose wheel touching down at all.

Crash landing it may be, but the visual evidence at hand shows that makes it appears as if it was beautifully executed.

Edited January 17, 2008 by onethailand

[Maestro]

If all power was lost, would this make the plane drop suddenly? Could the pilot still control the altitude, and if so, would he not have tried to glide the plane on a path to touch down on the runway, not short of it, if that would have been possible at all? With the landing gear down, would landing on the runway not have been safer, as the plane could have been allowed to roll out?

--

Maestro

[Maestro]

...the pilot dropped the undercarriage perfectly aligned - and there is no mark which shows the nose wheel touching down at all...

Wouldn’t that be normal for a normal landing, and therefore also if the touchdown is a little too early?

--

Maestro

[onethailand]

If all power was lost, would this make the plane drop suddenly? Could the pilot still control the altitude, and if so, would he not have tried to glide the plane on a path to touch down on the runway, not short of it, if that would have been possible at all? With the landing gear down, would landing on the runway not have been safer, as the plane could have been allowed to roll out?

--

Maestro

Hard to say, I'm not a pilot - wait for some of them to comment. But I'd imagine gliding a plane in without any power would be much more difficult. Also, according to a report on CNN, the nose wheel would be much weaker and I assume trying to make a 3 point landing could have been more risky.

Any way, the good news is, only 3 minor injuries.

Wouldn’t that be normal for a normal landing, and therefore also if the touchdown is a little too early?

It might be, except that the skid marks are 400 meters long, I believe, and after losing the undercarriage, one might think that the nose wheel should make contact - but apparently not. Certainly,most flights I've been on, the landing was on the rear wheels first, but I've also experienced a few seemingly perfect landings. And usually the nose wheel doesn't touch down more than a second or two later in my experience.

edit => oops - skidded 200 meters according to BBC, so maybe not necessarily unusual.

Edited January 17, 2008 by onethailand

[seonai]

The BBC read out what the pilot said as it was coming down. He lost power just before touchdown, pulled the nose up manually (?) and dropped it on the grass. It sounded as though he had only seconds to do this before it 'fell' naturally. Brilliant I'd say

[onethailand]

I'm trying to get the Beeb because I assume its reporting would be faster than CNN's - but last I checked it was a documentary, and now we're on sports

I have to fly BA/Qantas on Monday, that's why I'm a wee bit concerned.

[Tywais]

If all power was lost, would this make the plane drop suddenly? Could the pilot still control the altitude, and if so, would he not have tried to glide the plane on a path to touch down on the runway, not short of it, if that would have been possible at all?

On final approach the aircraft is flying at slow speeds but using power to keep within the flight slope and altitude and keeping standard approach to landing speeds as specified by the manual. Sudden loss of power with not result in abrupt drop in altitude but to maintain altitude requires pitching the nose up which slows the plane down even more reducing the amount of distance he has to land. He can only keep the nose up to just above stall point.

Power changes are normal on landing to keep speed and altitude at nominal. Though, as a private pilot, I've been trained to land on no power conditions but the instructor lets you know in advance (usually).

[Maestro]

Conflicting stories told by two passengers:

Fernando Po: He told the BBC there was "no sign whatsoever of any trouble until we touched the ground".

Paul Venter: "We came in to land, I could hear the undercarriage come out and the next moment the plane just dropped."

--

Maestro

[seonai]

Oneinthailand try here but I can't find the 'Watch Live' button

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressrele...08/news24.shtml

[onethailand]

Oneinthailand try here but I can't find the 'Watch Live' button

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressrele...08/news24.shtml

Cheers, Seonai. I've got it on now, live via UBC. But apparently not so important as to require full coverage - which, I guess, is a good thing

Edited January 17, 2008 by onethailand

[seonai]

Here is the link just click News 24 at the top of the page. Takes a while to load but worth it

[seonai]

When you get the little New 24 box clich on 'Launch in Stand Alone...' and wait a couple of minutes then it pops up in Real Player LIVE

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/default.stm

[Maestro]

On final approach the aircraft is flying at slow speeds but using power to keep within the flight slope and altitude and keeping standard approach to landing speeds as specified by the manual. Sudden loss of power with not result in abrupt drop in altitude but to maintain altitude requires pitching the nose up which slows the plane down even more reducing the amount of distance he has to land. He can only keep the nose up to just above stall point.

I had assumed that the witness who said “the plane just dropped” meant that it abruptly lost altitude but after reading the information given by Tywais, a pilot, I guess the passenger meant that the plane abruptly touched down.

This now leaves me to wonder whether the plane’s unusually low height above ground, as reported by an eye-witness on the ground, was already before the loss of power or afterwards, but I figure that only the flight recorder (black box) can tell this.

Another eyewitness, a taxi driver, said the plane flew over the nearby M4 motorway "so low you would think you could lean out the window and touch it".

--

Maestro

[yorkman]

It's all speculation really until more news comes out, but go on then I will speculate

2 scenarios have been put up, wind shear or loss of power.

I am not familiar with the 777 (never flown one, and anyway mostly after my time) but the same general principles apply, and the Boeing family deliberately fly nearly the same (As Tywais would agree with his PPL perhaps, if you have flown one Cessna single you have just about flown them all, as an example. It is "same same", PPL or ATPL, it just gets more complicated, more paperwork, more regulated, but the basic flying skills are exactly the same).

Wind shear is possible, but as they are landing near one every 2 minutes or so at LHR, there would have been (ought to have been) warnings from pilots landing ahead, and from the controllers. Remember the recent One2Go incident in Phuket where the pilot appears to have ignored warnings? Wind shear is also such a dangerous condition that there are wind shear prediction/warning systems. LHR has.

Total loss of power is also just about possible, but with the ETOPS certification of the 777 and all the redundancy that implies, it seems unlikely. But there was the very recent Quantas 747 incident into BKK that seemed so extremely unlikely that it is no longer trained for, apparently.

A third? Pilot Error? Another possible. But with the Multi Crew Co-operation training that is mandatory, and this was 2 BA pilots landing at "home", that seems unlikely too.

You can go on and on, birdstrike, autoland failure at the last minute etc etc...who knows, for now.

Ending speculation. More information is needed, but whatever happened, it was a very fortunate outcome. Pilot skill or happenchance, I don't know.......