The Panic Starts ? Invest In Gold !

[Naam]

something for the "goldbugs" to brood over:

Yes I think too far too fast -and can see a correction coming - am thinking of switching some of my funds in the next days . Any recommendations , with markets as they are ? I was thinking Eastern Europe .

cash!

OK Cash is King. But which cash? NZD AUD CHF Euro GBP JPY (0%) HKD ???? Where?

Its not so easy as just CASH.

ideal would be a mixture of those underlined. however, the selection depends on individual perspectives and the investor's base currency "thinking". an Aussie prefers AUD, a Brit swears on GBP, a German likes €UR, etc.; it is quite difficult to get rid of this thinking.

question "is the investor greedy for yield?" - result: he will stick to NZD, AUD, GBP and €UR and drop CHF and JPY.

question "does the investor desire to diversify?" - result: mixture of all underlined currencies.

the list is endless and no advice can be given without indepth knowledge of preferences and of course financial circumstances.

[VegasVic]

With all the little lemmings scurrying for gold.....

Yes indeed, anyone getting into gold at the curent levels are indeed lemmings that will be led off a cliff. Not only are they tying up their investment dollars in a vehicle that will be substantially lower by years end, but over the months while they watch their gold investment flounder they will not be earning any interest, dividend or rent. Poor little lemmings

[LivinLOS]

30 days + 8.5%

1 Year + 41.76%

Silver + >13% 30 Days.

Been hearing the same thing about gold since I bet the farm at mid 300's and mid 6's..

Been great being a lemming..

[LivinLOS]

BTW I fully expect a pullback from current levels.. Thats always healthy in a bull market..

[LivinLOS]

May as well point out.. Just made another all time high..

[LaoPo]

For the GOLD lovers amongst us:

Federal Reserve has Been accused of gold-price manipulation. It's about TIME!

The Wall Street Journal has agreed to publish a full-page ad in which the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee charges the U.S. government surreptitiously utilizes gold reserves to engage in international swaps and other market manipulations.

"Anybody Seen Our Gold?" is the title of the ad, which alleges U.S. gold reserves held at depositories such as Fort Knox and West Point may have been seriously depleted. GATA asserts U.S. gold reserves are being shipped overseas to settle complex transactions utilized by the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Treasury to suppress the price of the precious metal.

"The objective of this manipulation is to conceal the mismanagement of the U.S. dollar so that it might retain its function as the world's reserve currency," the ad copy reads in a pre-publication version GATA provided.

The U.S. Treasury denies the claim, insisting the stock is accounted for regularly.

GATA's chairman, William J. Murphy III, said his group was willing to pay the Wall Street Journal's cost of $264,000 to run the ad "to get the message out that the U.S. enters world markets without public disclosure to prop up the dollar and depress the price of gold."

GATA cites as evidence the Federal Reserve Open Market Committee reports dating back to Jan. 31, 1995, showing the U.S. Treasury Department's Exchange Stabilization Fund had undertaken gold swaps.

GATA, a non-profit 501 headquartered in Manchester, Conn., further asserts the federal government strategy to manipulate the price of gold has begun to fail.

"Gold's recent rise toward $900 per ounce shows that the price suppression scheme is faltering," the GATA ad reads. "When it is widely understood how central banks have been suppressing gold, its price may rise to $3,000 or $5,000 an ounce or more."

"The gold reserves of the United States have not been independently audited for half a century," the ad charges.

The U.S. Treasury disagrees.

"While the entire gold stock is not physically re-counted in any one year, over a period of years, by our continuous sampling process, the entire stock has been counted, and is effectively re-inventoried," Rich Delmar, counsel to Treasury's inspector general said.

Delmar explained that the annual Office of Inspector General audits of mint facilities involves a physical inspection of certain vaults, which are subject to a 100-percent bar count and assaying. At the end of the inspection, each vault is sealed.

"During each visit, all previously sealed vaults are checked to ensure that the seals have not been compromised or tampered with," he wrote. "This process is the basis for the conclusion that there has been a complete physical inventory."

Delmar said the OIG's work consists of more than reviewing documents.

"Our auditors physically observe the inventory work done at the mint facilities, and we are responsible for the assay sampling process," he said.

The Treasury was asked if there is a comprehensive listing and accounting of any encumbrances or other restrictions on the gold in the U.S. Mint that may affect ownership.

"This is not within OIG's purview," Delmar responded. "You may want to ask the mint directly."

'Dodging the question'

Murphy called the response "ridiculous."

"The mint does not make complex gold transactions with other countries," he said. "That is the role for the U.S. Treasury. The mint just houses the gold. The Treasury is dodging the question."

GATA has filed a Freedom of Information Request asking the Fed and Treasury to disclose information on encumbrances and swapping or leasing of U.S. gold.

"The Fed and Treasury have not even acknowledged receiving our FOIA request," Murphy said. "It's idiotic to tell you that the mint would have that knowledge."

Murphy asked, "Is the gold in the mint truly U.S. gold reserves or is it just 'custodial gold' held for some other country? That's why we need to know what encumbrances there are on the gold as well as whether any U.S. gold has been shipped overseas to fulfill swap obligations."

The 2006 annual report published on the website of the U.S. Mint lists KPMG as outside auditor.

The KPMG signed audit report in the 2006 Annual Report of the U.S. Mint takes full responsibility for auditing the balance sheets and includes a statement of the custodial activity of U.S. gold reserves.

According to the balance sheets, custodial gold and silver reserves make up 90 percent of the U.S. Mint's total assets.

Still, there is no specific statement in the U.S. Mint's annual report or the KPMG audit report describing any KPMG involvement in a physical inspection of the gold reserves.

KPMG's role as independent auditor for the U.S. Mint is also confirmed in the 2006 audit report prepared by the Office of Inspector General of the Treasury.

Dan Ginsburg, a KPMG spokesman, declined to provide any detail concerning his company's audit procedures for the U.S. Mint, citing client confidentiality.

Greater force

Craig R. Smith, founder of Swiss America Trading Corp., said he accepts the GATA arguments because "there has to be a force greater than normal market conditions that has repressed the price of gold."

Smith noted any number of financial crises since the late 1980s that "should have propelled gold way beyond the 1980 high of $850," including the savings and loan debacle and the birth of the Resolution Trust Corporation, as well as the on-going devaluation of the U.S. dollar against virtually all major foreign currencies.

"Gold has been playing catch-up with current world economic conditions, and future movements should easily prove gold to be a great value at $900 an ounce. That price will look cheap going forward as the world starts to turn its back on debt-laden currencies and returns to money with a real value."

But the U.S. Treasury, in a statement on its website, denies the Exchange Stabilization Fund has been used to manipulate gold prices.

"The ESF does not engage in any transactions in the market for any metal such as gold, either in spot markets or in any of its derivative forms," the Treasury statement declares. "We would like to emphasize that the Treasury Department does not seek to manipulate the price of gold or any other metal by intervening in or otherwise interfering with the market."

Yvanka Wallner, advertising sales representative for the Wall Street Journal in New York City, said the GATA ad has been approved by the Journal's lawyers and is being prepared to be run next week.

Gold yesterday closed at an all-time high of $911 an ounce, up $28, on a weaker dollar and higher oil prices.

"I KILLED THE BANK!" Andrew Jackson

http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/federal-r...-its-about-time

LaoPo

[churchill]

What happens if the bond insurers are downgraded ? seems there is a good chance at present and would further depress markets . So where to put your cash ? apart from cash !

[LivinLOS]

I have been a follower of the GATA argument for the last couple of years.. Bill Murphy has been on the nail so far.

[LivinLOS]

What happens if the bond insurers are downgraded ? seems there is a good chance at present and would further depress markets . So where to put your cash ? apart from cash !

The unravelling of the monolines, the downgrading and marking to market of the mounds of toxic paper. debt instruments and derivatives based on them, is why we have just seen a paniced fed drop 1.25%.. Using media to spin the recession talk is handy for them, but the protection of the wall street bankers and speculators at the expense of savers is what its all about.

How to fix a credit bubble.. Add more credit..

[VegasVic]

the good news is that the aliens who abducted Jim Sinclair released him again. he nearly drove them mad with his bla-bla

Naam, Its bad enought that these guys start the thread with this clown Sinclair, but now they are quoting these wingnuts at GATA as if there theories have any factual basis. In the U.S. we understand that the freedoms we enjoy (religion, speech,press,travel ect.) have a downside, that downside is that crackpots (or is that crackheads) like Sinclair and organizations like GATA are allowed to spew their garbage as if it were the gospel truth free from any recriminations. Those of us in the U.S. know the difference between hard data like unemployment claims, PPI numbers, CBO reports, actual foreclosure numbers (by the way you may have heard that foreclosures are up 79% in 2007 in the U.S., thats true, but what you won't hear on TV is that only accounts for less than 1% of U.S. real estate loans) and crackpots and crackpot organizations like Sinclair and GATA. I can understand posters like livininlos, highdiver and palm regurgatating this garbage, thats basically their M.O., but I always gave lao po a little more credit, while I have seen lao repost slanted articles that support his positions in the past, generally they have been articles from legitamite news outlets quoting a legitimate source. I guess that now that the chinese equity market has begun to unwind, lao has gotten so desperate that he actually believes this garbage. Very sad, especially now that sonic is gone there are very few voices of reason left on TV. I could go on here and tell you more about GATA's nonsense, but my time is limited here today as I am staying with friends in Phoenix this weekend and they want to get a round of golf in this afternoon before the superbowl party starts tonight. Thats all for now, when I get back home on monday I will see if any of these guys can post anything that they think legitimises Sincliar or GATA and then I will disect their posts and show Sinclair and GATA for the clowns they are.

[Naam]

the good news is that the aliens who abducted Jim Sinclair released him again. he nearly drove them mad with his bla-bla

Naam, Its bad enought that these guys start the thread with this clown Sinclair, but now they are quoting these wingnuts at GATA as if there theories have any factual basis.

basically quoting clowns like Sinclair doesn't hurt Vic when done as Churchill did, i.e. the 'full Monty' without ripping parts out of context and presenting them as gospel. reading the 'full Sinclair' should give most people the insight what kind of clown Sinclair is.

[churchill]

What happens if the bond insurers are downgraded ? seems there is a good chance at present and would further depress markets . So where to put your cash ? apart from cash !

The unravelling of the monolines, the downgrading and marking to market of the mounds of toxic paper. debt instruments and derivatives based on them, is why we have just seen a paniced fed drop 1.25%.. Using media to spin the recession talk is handy for them, but the protection of the wall street bankers and speculators at the expense of savers is what its all about.

How to fix a credit bubble.. Add more credit..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtm...3/ccbond103.xml

[churchill]

Is this true ? Happening in vietnam and so probably elsewhere - The start of something ?

"Here’s a true story just in from Kevin Brekke, our Switzerland-based editor…

“Some very interesting news came my way. Friends of mine just returned from Vietnam; they are native born and spent a month with family. They were quite surprised to find that U.S. dollars were not widely accepted by local merchants. But the big shocker was that the local merchants pegged their prices to the gold price! Every day the exchange rate of the Dong against the price of gold was recalculated. The prices of merchandise would rise or fall with the gold price. The merchant class in Vietnam has essentially put itself on the gold standard. Now if we can just get Paulson and Bernanke on a junket to Hanoi...”

If the import of that story didn’t strike you upside the head like a 2” x 4”, read it again. Individual merchants are now setting their own exchange rates, and using gold as the anchor.

This is an idea that could very well catch on. "

[PCA]

Is this true ? Happening in vietnam and so probably elsewhere - The start of something ?

"Here’s a true story just in from Kevin Brekke, our Switzerland-based editor…

“Some very interesting news came my way. Friends of mine just returned from Vietnam; they are native born and spent a month with family. They were quite surprised to find that U.S. dollars were not widely accepted by local merchants. But the big shocker was that the local merchants pegged their prices to the gold price! Every day the exchange rate of the Dong against the price of gold was recalculated. The prices of merchandise would rise or fall with the gold price. The merchant class in Vietnam has essentially put itself on the gold standard. Now if we can just get Paulson and Bernanke on a junket to Hanoi...”

If the import of that story didn’t strike you upside the head like a 2” x 4”, read it again. Individual merchants are now setting their own exchange rates, and using gold as the anchor.

This is an idea that could very well catch on. "

yeah, and soon they will be back to the kind of biz they were born for: selling noodle soup and bananas.

[lannarebirth]

Is this true ? Happening in vietnam and so probably elsewhere - The start of something ?

"Here's a true story just in from Kevin Brekke, our Switzerland-based editor…

"Some very interesting news came my way. Friends of mine just returned from Vietnam; they are native born and spent a month with family. They were quite surprised to find that U.S. dollars were not widely accepted by local merchants. But the big shocker was that the local merchants pegged their prices to the gold price! Every day the exchange rate of the Dong against the price of gold was recalculated. The prices of merchandise would rise or fall with the gold price. The merchant class in Vietnam has essentially put itself on the gold standard. Now if we can just get Paulson and Bernanke on a junket to Hanoi..."

If the import of that story didn't strike you upside the head like a 2" x 4", read it again. Individual merchants are now setting their own exchange rates, and using gold as the anchor.

This is an idea that could very well catch on. "

This isn't any idea that's "caught on". It's any idea that was abandoned most everywhere to free the peasant masses from the clutches of the bloodsucking merchant class. Be careful of what you wish for.

[LivinLOS]

Like having the FED debase the dollar by 97%.. Essentially create a tax on savings.. Create totally unnecessary inflation.. Etc etc etc isnt being in the clutches of the merchant classes then ??

“if you want to remain slaves of the bankers and pay for the costs of your own slavery, let them continue to create money and control the nation’s credit.” –Sir Josiah Stamp

[teatree]

Nice quote.

Everyone should read "The Creature From Jekyll Island" by G.Edward Griffin. Its about the central banking system and is a REAL eye opener. It could just change the way you see the world.

Or, you could search for these films on youtube - Money As Debt, Freedom To Fascism.

You really should see these films.

[SoCal]

Is this true ? Happening in vietnam and so probably elsewhere - The start of something ?

"Here’s a true story just in from Kevin Brekke, our Switzerland-based editor…

“Some very interesting news came my way. Friends of mine just returned from Vietnam; they are native born and spent a month with family. They were quite surprised to find that U.S. dollars were not widely accepted by local merchants. But the big shocker was that the local merchants pegged their prices to the gold price! Every day the exchange rate of the Dong against the price of gold was recalculated. The prices of merchandise would rise or fall with the gold price. The merchant class in Vietnam has essentially put itself on the gold standard. Now if we can just get Paulson and Bernanke on a junket to Hanoi...”

If the import of that story didn’t strike you upside the head like a 2” x 4”, read it again. Individual merchants are now setting their own exchange rates, and using gold as the anchor.

This is an idea that could very well catch on. "

Not true at all, unless you are talking the price of gold jewelry. There is no pegging of the price of merchandise to the price of gold in Vietnam.

The Vietnamese government urged business' to stop taking dollars years ago, and to use the dong as the main currency. The only places accepting dollars now are banks, hotels, and some venues catering to foreignors.

The government has further been pushing (2yrs) to have land transactions take place in dong rather than tael, and have been quite successful at this. That said, gold is still often used in calculating the value and transference of land. This is about the only commodity, other than gold itself, that moves with the price of gold.

[VegasVic]

Is this true ? Happening in vietnam and so probably elsewhere - The start of something ?

"Here’s a true story just in from Kevin Brekke, our Switzerland-based editor…

“Some very interesting news came my way. Friends of mine just returned from Vietnam; they are native born and spent a month with family. They were quite surprised to find that U.S. dollars were not widely accepted by local merchants. But the big shocker was that the local merchants pegged their prices to the gold price! Every day the exchange rate of the Dong against the price of gold was recalculated. The prices of merchandise would rise or fall with the gold price. The merchant class in Vietnam has essentially put itself on the gold standard. Now if we can just get Paulson and Bernanke on a junket to Hanoi...”

If the import of that story didn’t strike you upside the head like a 2” x 4”, read it again. Individual merchants are now setting their own exchange rates, and using gold as the anchor.

This is an idea that could very well catch on. "

Not true at all, unless you are talking the price of gold jewelry. There is no pegging of the price of merchandise to the price of gold in Vietnam.

The Vietnamese government urged business' to stop taking dollars years ago, and to use the dong as the main currency. The only places accepting dollars now are banks, hotels, and some venues catering to foreignors.

The government has further been pushing (2yrs) to have land transactions take place in dong rather than tael, and have been quite successful at this. That said, gold is still often used in calculating the value and transference of land. This is about the only commodity, other than gold itself, that moves with the price of gold.

Very interesting I guess that means we could be seeing a half price sale on Vietnamese real estate by years end!

[SoCal]

VV,

I sure wish.

Do you realise that in '06 Vietnam had the most expensive land in the world?

Hard to believe I know. That's what I saw on Deutsche World business. Benh Thanh market $273,000/sqm, if memory serves me.

[LivinLOS]

VV,

I sure wish.

Do you realise that in '06 Vietnam had the most expensive land in the world?

Hard to believe I know. That's what I saw on Deutsche World business. Benh Thanh market $273,000/sqm, if memory serves me.

Yes because the SQM price is fixed in gold price..

Maybe thats the part of ther piece the above post has fixed on and miss understood that to mean 'all marketable goods' instead of land prices in that market.

[churchill]

Is this true ? Happening in vietnam and so probably elsewhere - The start of something ?

"Here’s a true story just in from Kevin Brekke, our Switzerland-based editor…

“Some very interesting news came my way. Friends of mine just returned from Vietnam; they are native born and spent a month with family. They were quite surprised to find that U.S. dollars were not widely accepted by local merchants. But the big shocker was that the local merchants pegged their prices to the gold price! Every day the exchange rate of the Dong against the price of gold was recalculated. The prices of merchandise would rise or fall with the gold price. The merchant class in Vietnam has essentially put itself on the gold standard. Now if we can just get Paulson and Bernanke on a junket to Hanoi...”

If the import of that story didn’t strike you upside the head like a 2” x 4”, read it again. Individual merchants are now setting their own exchange rates, and using gold as the anchor.

This is an idea that could very well catch on. "

Not true at all, unless you are talking the price of gold jewelry. There is no pegging of the price of merchandise to the price of gold in Vietnam.

The Vietnamese government urged business' to stop taking dollars years ago, and to use the dong as the main currency. The only places accepting dollars now are banks, hotels, and some venues catering to foreignors.

The government has further been pushing (2yrs) to have land transactions take place in dong rather than tael, and have been quite successful at this. That said, gold is still often used in calculating the value and transference of land. This is about the only commodity, other than gold itself, that moves with the price of gold.

Land values have increased in the last few weeks then !

[churchill]

Who are GEAB ? they sound paranoid !

http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-22-is-availa...nomy_a1298.html

[cclub75]

OK Cash is King.

But which cash? NZD AUD CHF Euro GBP JPY (0%) HKD ????

Where?

Its not so easy as just CASH.

Spot on... Zimbabwe dollars are also cash.

Now... of course... with an official inflation rate of 100 000 % (yes, figures given yesterday) it changes the perception.

[cclub75]

Who are GEAB ? they sound paranoid !

http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-22-is-availa...nomy_a1298.html

Indeed. But : until now they were globally right.

However, I do not like the way they write. Sounds weak, grandiloquent, sometimes like a sect.

But again, the trends they spoke about last year are, were confirmed.

[cclub75]

“Some very interesting news came my way. Friends of mine just returned from Vietnam; they are native born and spent a month with family. They were quite surprised to find that U.S. dollars were not widely accepted by local merchants. But the big shocker was that the local merchants pegged their prices to the gold price! Every day the exchange rate of the Dong against the price of gold was recalculated. The prices of merchandise would rise or fall with the gold price. The merchant class in Vietnam has essentially put itself on the gold standard.

I think it's weird.

-there is no exchange rate between VND and gold ! There is an exchange rate VND/USD, from which after we can calculate the price of gold in VND...

Therefore I don't see any "gold standard" into this equation.... ?

-then, it's sound like a bad story from colonial times. I mean : right now local merchants are struggling with... inflation, prices of commodities. That's the real concern.

[churchill]

Good time to invest in mining companies !

Listen to Jim Puplava today (3rd hour part 2 - The case for Gold).

http://www.financialsense.com/fsn/main.html

The time for buying physical bullion is running out.

[Abrak]

Good time to invest in mining companies !

Listen to Jim Puplava today (3rd hour part 2 - The case for Gold).

http://www.financialsense.com/fsn/main.html

The time for buying physical bullion is running out.

Interesting observation but doesnt reflect my experience.

You would expect equities to outperform gold about 2 to 1.

However I have investments in physical bullion - cef, gld, slv - that have done fine. I also own newmont mining (nem) that has gone nowhere despite a US$200 rise in the price of gold.

[churchill]

Good time to invest in mining companies !

Listen to Jim Puplava today (3rd hour part 2 - The case for Gold).

http://www.financialsense.com/fsn/main.html

The time for buying physical bullion is running out.

Interesting observation but doesnt reflect my experience.

You would expect equities to outperform gold about 2 to 1.

However I have investments in physical bullion - cef, gld, slv - that have done fine. I also own newmont mining (nem) that has gone nowhere despite a US$200 rise in the price of gold.

The point being that gold shares have very much lagged behind the gold price and should have a lot of catching up to do ! So even if you have missed the rise in the gold price you should still be able to see very good gains from mining shares even if the gold price does not rise further .

[lannarebirth]

Posted On: Thursday, January 17, 2008, 5:45:00 PM EST

The Panic Starts

Author: Jim Sinclair

Dear CIGAs,

There is no doubt the Fed and the PPT are meeting right now. A drop of over 300 points on the Dow after the Chairman of the Federal Reserve speaks publicly presages a 1000 point break in the Dow Jones Industrial Average coming quite quickly, if not tomorrow.

Unless the equity markets can be calmed, a panic is about to happen, making the statement "This is it" a horrible reality.

If the equity markets cannot be calmed then:

Recognize this is the Formula happening like everything else much sooner and much bigger in its implications than anticipated.

Gold will rise to $1650 as an almost immediate effect of what will be done to attempt to fend off a total panic starting to take place in general equities, therein threatening to be followed by all credit markets of all kinds.

The funds and hotshot short term traders in gold shares will be killed by the upward explosion of the gold price about to occur.

The PPT and the Fed will step out of gold's way because gold is one of the tools used in 1930 by Roosevelt and in 2000 by Bush. It will be used again now on the upside.

Gold is the only insurance there is against what all this means because a panic in equities will blow the financial system, already coming apart, to smithereens.

All country funds would shut down on any further investments in "at the wall" financial institutions.

The rollover in credit and default derivatives would exceed the entire foreign debt of the USA.

The rest of the $450 trillion dollar mountain of derivatives would start a disintegration like nothing you have every seen in your lifetime.

Consumer demand would slam shut.

The auto industry might as well go into liquidation this coming Monday, avoiding the June 2008 rush.

The US dollar would burn a hole in the floor going directly to .5200 or lower.

As the dollar disintegrates gold would rocket to and through $1650 in days.

The markets for general equities would all have to institute total trading halts every 100 points on the downside for 30 minutes each.

All commercial call loans would be called.

All debtors one day late on any payment, lacking grace period, would be liquidated. All debtors over one day of the grace period would be liquidated.

It is clearly visible to anyone with eyes or a mind to think that the PPT has lost all semblance of control in the equity markets and will soon in all remaining markets.

The commercial paper credit market which is almost dead will die totally.

Should no emergency action take place soon, you will see an old fashioned panic of the 1929 variety.

Just as emotional fools sell gold and gold shares, be assured that more emotional general equity fools will unload and bring the averages down more than ever in history in one day.

Recognize this is the Formula happening like everything else much sooner and much bigger in its implications than anticipated.

Emergency action will be all splash and theatrics but truthfully the cat is out of the bag. It buys some time but corrects nothing. It makes the Formula 100% correct.

There now must be EMERGENCY ACTION because the Chairman of the Fed has BOMBED OUT PUBLICLY and a PANIC is about to occur. Expect EMERGENCY ACTION in days, not weeks.

If you have not protected yourself, you may only have days to do so now

Ouch!