Gay Man Goes Straight

[vancity]

Hi Guys!

I have a friend who is planning on moving to Thailand. He says he is going there to settle down, get married and start a family.

Here's the catch - he's gay and has never even had sex with a woman before. I keep asking him how thats going to work out for him, he says nature will take it's course...and he says most women don't care about sex like men do and he thinks he won't have a problem finding a women who would want a good man to raise children with.

I keep telling him he's crazy. A woman would not accept a guy whose entire sexual history is homo (he's 39). He says he says he would be a great husband and has always wanted a family. He is a great guy, tall, dark, handsome and could have almost any guy he wanted but he's been on about this 'family' thing for like two years.

Granted he hasn't been in a relationship for a few years, doesn't date guys or anything anymore but he is GAY and has never dated a woman or givens them a second glance in the way a straight guy would...

I'm worried about my friend if he follows through with this. Does anyone have any advise or suggestions?

[Guest]

Anything is possible, but as we all know you can only pretend to be straight. After a while those urges will surface...

[PeaceBlondie]

Of course, the way it is stated in the opening post, it would be absurd to suddenly try to be something he has never been for 39 years. At least most of us bi-gay men gave it a go, for one or two times or twenty-some years. A lesbian can take it like a woman, but a man has to give it straight and hard. You cannot fake an erection, even with Viagra.

I heard a gay doctor tell about his attempt at straight intercourse: the smell of a woman's private area made him vomit. You cannot fake it.

Considering the gay eye candy in Thailand, that guy is going to be too distracted in the first place, to notice the women here.

Yes, sounds trollish, but shall we enjoy the chance to comment?

[vancity]

Of course, the way it is stated in the opening post, it would be absurd to suddenly try to be something he has never been for 39 years. At least most of us bi-gay men gave it a go, for one or two times or twenty-some years. A lesbian can take it like a woman, but a man has to give it straight and hard. You cannot fake an erection, even with Viagra.

I heard a gay doctor tell about his attempt at straight intercourse: the smell of a woman's private area made him vomit. You cannot fake it.

Considering the gay eye candy in Thailand, that guy is going to be too distracted in the first place, to notice the women here.

Yes, sounds trollish, but shall we enjoy the chance to comment?

Thanks for your comment, I agree with you.

What worries me, and the reason I started the topic is because he is serious, is making the plans, has joined a thai dating site and is making arrangements to move. Well I don't doubt my friends urge to procreate, I am very uneasy about the consequences. Divorce is one thing, but divorce on the other side of the planet when a child is involved is quite another. I've Thailand can be a very unforgiving place, I worry he is going to get chewed up, spit out and worst case scenario, lose the child he helped create.

I'm not a troll

[londonthai]

let him try this dating agency - otherwise there are ladyboys to be find around while he is in Thailand. In the second case he won't be able to have children, but still might find a good life partner.

making already his long term plans, like emmigrating to thailand, is much too early - considering visa and work problems.

[Boo]

True story;

One of my husbands best friend is married (buddhist only not legal) to a thai women who is in turn married (legally) to a gay italian man. The italian & thai women have a child (daughter) together (conceived one druken night) but the thai husband raises her 80% of theyear & the thai couple live together as man & wife for this time too, for 20% of the year the thai women & child live with the gay italian man both when he comes to thailand (and stays in the thai husbands house) & then when he takes his wife & child to italy for summer holiday to visit with his parents.

The arrangement works cause gay man wanted children but not wife full time & wife wanted half farang baby & to keep thai husband, thai husband gets the raw deal cause he doesn't like his wife being married to another man (even if he is gay) & doesn't want nor receives any money from this guy either. The italian man provides for his child with clothes, school books & a little money monthly & buys the wife gold & presents when he visits but it is thai hubby who provides for day to day & it is he who the girl calls dad.

Weird, yes but it seems to work. Now all of this takes place in a town in Issan not pattaya not phuket or bangkok & thai fella gets quite a bit of stick from his mates for putting up with it but he loves his wife (even though she is well known ho about town) so puts up with it. I have met the italian man & he is nice but very camP & openly gay. he has even tried picking up guys in the thai husbands bar before now (I have been witness & tbh he is lucky he didn't get a kicking cause the guys in this town are not tourist broken jai dee thai guys & it was again, thai husband who saved him)

Message of this story? Well, I suppose that anything is possible, if the op's friend want s a wife & kids, in thailand it can be possible even for an out & proud gay man

[britmaveric]

Well perhaps I know this might be a revelation, but maybe the lad isnt gay? We've all heard hetero lads turning gay after being married for 20yrs or so. I think it would be possible for the reverse to be true.

[moldy]

Well perhaps I know this might be a revelation, but maybe the lad isnt gay? We've all heard hetero lads turning gay after being married for 20yrs or so. I think it would be possible for the reverse to be true.

I suppose it's possible. But people often come to Thailand to live their dream and as we know dreams are often devoid of reality. Maybe he should start with an LB and go from there.

[PeaceBlondie]

Well perhaps I know this might be a revelation, but maybe the lad isnt gay? We've all heard hetero lads turning gay after being married for 20yrs or so. I think it would be possible for the reverse to be true.

Yes indeed, anything is possible. However, most guys in the West have to overcome so much oppositiom to live a gay life openly, that there are far fewer 'closeted straight men' living as gay, as there are the reverse.

[endure]

Well perhaps I know this might be a revelation, but maybe the lad isnt gay? We've all heard hetero lads turning gay after being married for 20yrs or so. I think it would be possible for the reverse to be true.

Yes indeed, anything is possible. However, most guys in the West have to overcome so much oppositiom to live a gay life openly, that there are far fewer 'closeted straight men' living as gay, as there are the reverse.

I've known many people who came out of the closet - I've never met anyone who willingly climbed back into it

[PeaceBlondie]

Here in Thailand, a gay man can marry and not even repent of having been gay. I never heard of a Westerner doing it unless he was brain washed by a sect.

[popshirt]

Sexuality is indeed a complicated subject. Even though I had an intense and sexual relationship with a woman for several years during college--we lived together and f*cked like bunnies--I never doubted I was gay. And I don't believe that I am bisexual simply because I had sex with women and could have, but didn't (thank Buddha), father any children.

Back on topic, I think your friend needs to do what his heart is telling him. I am tempted to add that it is really none of your business, but I know you are concerned because he is your friend and I respect that. Life is short, and IMHO we need to be free to explore, experiment and sometimes make foolish decisions; we'll all be dead sooner than we think, so why not? As for me, I will not die wondering about many things, if you only knew the things I've got up to in my (so far), long and happy life!

Edited January 30, 2008 by popshirt

[dukkha]

[peekint]

I don't see this as a "closet" or "change" issue. Of course, I don't know the fellow involved.

I think many Gay people feel they've missed something by not raising a family of their own. I use "raising" in the sense of "children", as there are many Gay couples who have created very functional and loving families without procreation, with and without children.

Perhaps this fellow is unable to resolve the dissonance between his desire to be a father and his sexuality. He's come up with a way to try and harmonize those two aspects of his self, and this rather, lets say, interesting plan is what does it for him for the moment.

One might ask, "Why Thailand?".

I don't know how much he knows about Thailand, but certainly the concept of "family" here is much less rigid than it is elsewhere (see the post about the Italian guy, above). Among my Thai friends and acquantances, I've seen quite a few "alternative" families, including Gay spouses in straight marriages (whose wives are quite aware), "adopted" children (who are just kids of friends of friends who didn't want them, were imprisoned, or have passed away), and even the traditional mia-yai mia-noi arrangement where the two mias are of different sex. There doesn't appear to be much social stigma or anxiety involved.

So, whether intentionally or not, your friend has probably picked the right place to experiment.

That said, it is an experiment for him, and everyone he gets involved with needs to know that. They need to know his background, his motivation, the risks, the rewards. How evil it would be just to bang some poor girl into pregnancy, marry her, and then one night have the "by the way, honey ... " discussion. (Anyone seen the Thai movie "Friends"?) It's too much like the married guy "coming out of the closet", only intentional, which to me makes it dishonest.

From my point of view, if this works for him, and JUST AS IMPORTANTLY, works for his new "family", I don't think he's doing anything wrong. If he is surreptitious and deceitful about it, he should burn in hel_l, so to speak.

[noctiluca]

Hi Vancity,

I had a similar experience as yours. I have a very close friend who is, or rather was, gay, according to him. It might sound strange, but it did happen to my friend, or that's what he wants to believe. I wasn't convinced at first and even strongly objected to his plan, due to I know he never had a sexual experience with female sex before, and he had slept with countless men, not to mention relationships.

Personally, I don't know what to believe, but since he has always been a good friend to me, I just have to accept it at his words. I hope that he won't fail because this time it involves another person's life, namely his wife and, possibly, any future children.

The difference is he is a Thai (who now happens to live abroad). He had a foreign boyfriend and lived with him for awhile, but things didn't work out between them, and it ended badly. They even planned to adopt a kid together at some point.

I guess, as he gets older, the desire to have a "family" gets stronger for him. I believe that he believes having a so-called normal heterosexual family will be easier to make it work than a gay family, and of course more acceptable. At least it will be easier to a child when or if they have one. And he definitely wants children.

As far as I know, his wife doesn't know about his gay past, because he keeps it from her. I hope for his sake that, if one day she finds out, she still loves him enough to accept him.

I had the same reaction as you have, so I can definitely say I understand how you feel. The best advice I can give you is be his friend, but also be truthful. Give him support when he needs it, and hope for the best. The rest is up to him how he wants to live his life. If his life turns out ok, great. If not, it is his responsibility.

BTW, I wrote this in lenght awhile back. If you want to read it, you may search this forum with my name or title bisexuality.

[seonai]

It's odd as I rarely post in here really but Boo's post in this thread made me think of several (yes several) Western men I know in Thailand who are gay and have Thai male lovers/boyfriends but the Thai guy's wife and children knows about them and accepts it - guess it's either open mindedness or financial

[vancity]

Thanks for all the feedback. Reading it, I kind of wished I posted this in the ladies forum, very interesting comments.

It's interesting how accepting most of the posts have been. Almost everyone over here I've spoken to about this has laughed out loud, as did I.

Besides the obvious complications and difficulties involved with his plan, one of the things that has bothered me and I didn't realize it until reading the last few posts is that he always does what he says and he always gets what he wants (not in a selfish way). I'm a little jealous I guess.

thanks again for the feedback. I didn't get the answers I wanted, I got the answers HE wanted..