Re British Passport For Thai Son/daughter

[springbok42]

I am British by descent. My daughter has a Thai mother and we live in BKK where I have a good and permanent job - ie we are not looking to move to UK. However, I was not here when she was born and my wife got a relative to 'act' as father for purposes of registration here/birth certificate. If we get him to testify to that effect, is there any chance at all of obtaining a British passport for my daughter? (We were not legally married at time of birth but married later in Hong Kong - with legal papers - and the lass is 10 years old now, if that is relevant).

[the scouser]

I'm afraid your daughter is probably not going to qualify for British citizenship.

It would have been possible for you to have applied for registration as a British citizen on her behalf, but, at the latest, it should have been done before she was six years old. You can still apply under a different provision of the relevant law, but this is totally at the discretion of the Home Office and, as a minimum, you would have to demonstrate that you have strong ties to the UK. On the assumption that your life is in Thailand, it is unlikely that you would be able to meet the benchmark.

Underlying all this is also the fact that you're not named on your daughter's birth certificate and to get this corrected is unlikely to be as simple as the named father swearing an affidavit. Indeed, he may be leaving himself open to prosecution for having previously made a false declaration. The only way to conclusively prove your paternity would be to undergo a DNA test, but this would seem pointless when it otherwise appears that your daughter will not be granted British citizenship.

Scouse.

[samran]

I'm afraid your daughter is probably not going to qualify for British citizenship.

It would have been possible for you to have applied for registration as a British citizen on her behalf, but, at the latest, it should have been done before she was six years old. You can still apply under a different provision of the relevant law, but this is totally at the discretion of the Home Office and, as a minimum, you would have to demonstrate that you have strong ties to the UK. On the assumption that your life is in Thailand, it is unlikely that you would be able to meet the benchmark.

Underlying all this is also the fact that you're not named on your daughter's birth certificate and to get this corrected is unlikely to be as simple as the named father swearing an affidavit. Indeed, he may be leaving himself open to prosecution for having previously made a false declaration. The only way to conclusively prove your paternity would be to undergo a DNA test, but this would seem pointless when it otherwise appears that your daughter will not be granted British citizenship.

Scouse.

if paternity could be established to the satisfaction of the British authorities, is there any other visa available that would let the child live in the UK (presumably with her parents) until such time as she qualified for ILR or citizenship in her own right?

[the scouser]

I presume the OP, being called Springbok, is also South African. If this is the case, and his daughter also qualifies for a ZAF passport, she could apply for an ancestral visa if one of her grandparents was born in the U.K. After five years on this type of visa, the daughter could apply for indefinite leave and, having held that for one year, naturalisation as a Brit cit.

Alternatively, if the OP and his wife wished to settle in the UK, the daughter would have to get a settlement visa using whichever passport she is otherwise entitled to.

Scouse.

[springbok42]

I presume the OP, being called Springbok, is also South African. If this is the case, and his daughter also qualifies for a ZAF passport, she could apply for an ancestral visa if one of her grandparents was born in the U.K. After five years on this type of visa, the daughter could apply for indefinite leave and, having held that for one year, naturalisation as a Brit cit.

Alternatively, if the OP and his wife wished to settle in the UK, the daughter would have to get a settlement visa using whichever passport she is otherwise entitled to.

Scouse.

I'm not, though I did live there for a while. I'm British through and through. I am puzzled about this "retained a domicile in the UK" criteria. My parents and close relatives are all dead, so I suppose that only means actually having a house there. If I go the the trouble of buying a house, would that show 'domicile'?

[KhaoNiaw]

I didn't register my daughter's British citizenship until she was 14. I haven't lived in the UK since she was born, but proving domicile was no problem as all my family are still there and I retain a bank account there.

The major point in your case is the registered father though. I found the embassy staff to be very friendly and helpful when I went through the process so it's probably worth giving them a call (I found mixed results with getting replies to emails). At the very least you should find out if it's worth going through the hoops.

[the scouser]

The potential difficulty for Springbok42 is that his is British by descent, so there is no means for his daughter to automatically acquire British citizenship by dint of having been born, as she was born outside of the UK. If Khao Niaw was born in the U.K., he'll be British otherwise than by descent, and the registration process will have been more straightforward.

Section 3(2) of the British Nationality Act 1981 provides for the registration of a child whose parent is British by descent, but an application has to be made within one year of the child's birth, exceptionally extendedable to within six years. As the OP's daughter is ten, there is simply no provision for her to now be registered under 3(2). This leaves section 3(1) of the '81 Act which provides for the registration of any minor as a British citizen, but this is solely at the discretion of the Home Sec.

"Domicile" in this sense is not simply a matter of where you live, but the country to which you have the most attachment. It is very difficult to lose the domicile of your country of nationality, but underlying all this is the fact that as Springbok is British by descent, his offspring born outside of the UK have no legitimate expectation of being British.

Also, he would need to undergo a DNA test asnd have his daughter's Thai birth certificate rescinded (is that possible?).

Scouse.

[Mahout Angrit]

The potential difficulty for Springbok42 is that his is British by descent

I know he says he is British by descent, but he then goes on to say he is British 'through and through' which may indicate that he was born and brought up in UK so is British otherwise than descent. Springbok42 should confirm or deny this as I'm sure it will make a difference.

Although it will be a long (and maybe expensive) battle to convince authorities that "I am the Dad not the other bloke" As far as I'm aware Thai birth certificates cannot be altered once issued but maybe after a DNA test then an amendment can be attached (as they put the other bloke in prison for false declaration )

[springbok42]

The potential difficulty for Springbok42 is that his is British by descent

I know he says he is British by descent, but he then goes on to say he is British 'through and through' which may indicate that he was born and brought up in UK so is British otherwise than descent. Springbok42 should confirm or deny this as I'm sure it will make a difference.

Although it will be a long (and maybe expensive) battle to convince authorities that "I am the Dad not the other bloke" As far as I'm aware Thai birth certificates cannot be altered once issued but maybe after a DNA test then an amendment can be attached (as they put the other bloke in prison for false declaration )

I am confused now and maybe I am confusing others- if so I apologise. I am British, my parents and their parents were British, I was born in UK and we all always lived in the UK. I now suspect that means I am NOT "British by descent" which evidently means something other than the grammatically obvious. I have been in Thailand 13 years, my parents and near relatives are all deceased, I do have a UK bank a/c but do not regularly visit the UK.

[the scouser]

I am confused now and maybe I am confusing others- if so I apologise. I am British, my parents and their parents were British, I was born in UK and we all always lived in the UK. I now suspect that means I am NOT "British by descent" which evidently means something other than the grammatically obvious. I have been in Thailand 13 years, my parents and near relatives are all deceased, I do have a UK bank a/c but do not regularly visit the UK.

Confusion reigns!

You've made the assumption that you are British by descent and I've made the assumptions that 1) you know what you're talking about, and 2) given your username, you were born in South Africa to British parents.

Right, to start again. If you were born in the UK, this in all likelihood makes you British otherwise than by descent. If this is the case, you can apply to the Home Office through the embassy in Bangkok for your daughter's registration as a British citizen. The cost is £400.00 plus an embassy fee. Since 1 July 2006, unmarried British fathers have been able to automatically transmit their citizenship (if British otherwise than by descent) and the Home Office has acknowledged that those born in similar circumstances prior to this date will normally meet the requirements for registration.

However, you still need to overcome the hurdle of not being named as the child's father. Furthermore, if your wife was married to another at the time of your daughter's birth, British law assumes that any child of hers is the progeny of her husband at that time.

Scouse.

[springbok42]

I am confused now and maybe I am confusing others- if so I apologise. I am British, my parents and their parents were British, I was born in UK and we all always lived in the UK. I now suspect that means I am NOT "British by descent" which evidently means something other than the grammatically obvious. I have been in Thailand 13 years, my parents and near relatives are all deceased, I do have a UK bank a/c but do not regularly visit the UK.

Confusion reigns!

You've made the assumption that you are British by descent and I've made the assumptions that 1) you know what you're talking about, and 2) given your username, you were born in South Africa to British parents.

Right, to start again. If you were born in the UK, this in all likelihood makes you British otherwise than by descent. If this is the case, you can apply to the Home Office through the embassy in Bangkok for your daughter's registration as a British citizen. The cost is £400.00 plus an embassy fee. Since 1 July 2006, unmarried British fathers have been able to automatically transmit their citizenship (if British otherwise than by descent) and the Home Office has acknowledged that those born in similar circumstances prior to this date will normally meet the requirements for registration.

However, you still need to overcome the hurdle of not being named as the child's father. Furthermore, if your wife was married to another at the time of your daughter's birth, British law assumes that any child of hers is the progeny of her husband at that time.

Scouse.

Yes, I apologise again . We ere not married at time of birth but later (legally in HK). She was not married to anyone at time of birth. Do I correctly assume someone would need to see the Thai birth papers or could we 'wing' it - and do you think the presence of a Thai name under 'father' would terminate my case? Thanks for your comments anyway.

[Mahout Angrit]

Do I correctly assume someone would need to see the Thai birth papers or could we 'wing' it - and do you think the presence of a Thai name under 'father' would terminate my case? Thanks for your comments anyway.

You will have to present the Thai Birth certificate (translated) and they would expect to see you named as the father to consider an application for British Citizenship for your daughter based on her father being British. You would also have to prove that you are indeed British.

I'm sure Thai birth certificates cannot be altered once issued but whether there would be such people who could arrange it 'for a fee' I wouldn't know. I also wouldn't know if a DNA test proved beyond reasonable doubt that you were the father how it would be considered by the Thai authorities.

[jstumbo]

And as for the relative that put his name on the birth certificate, seems like they could just say that they thought he was the child was his, but now it appears that she is half farang and so you did the test and indeed she is your child.