Racist Police After Accident

[Galong]

I love it, ALL THE TIME.....

farangland is no better....if I thought it is, I would be there........

Absolute nonsense! In "farangland" (a racist comment which I don't appreciate), there are courts and justice is the ultimate goal of these courts. Ever hear the phrase "innocent until proven guilty?" It actually works. A Thai who is in an accident with an American (for example) in America, has the same rights as the American. It is BLATANTLY obvious that the locals have more rights than tourists or expats in this country. They don't even try to hide it.

[Who, me ?]

I love it, ALL THE TIME.....

farangland is no better....if I thought it is, I would be there........

Absolute nonsense! In "farangland" (a racist comment which I don't appreciate), there are courts and justice is the ultimate goal of these courts. Ever hear the phrase "innocent until proven guilty?" It actually works. A Thai who is in an accident with an American (for example) in America, has the same rights as the American. It is BLATANTLY obvious that the locals have more rights than tourists or expats in this country. They don't even try to hide it.

sue them ! American way.....

[Jandajoy]

I am amazed by the words that are used in this thread.......I really don't wonder who the racist(s) is (are) !

Get a grip guys !!

So am I. I dont see any evidence of racism from the police or anybody else.

Insurance sorts these incidents. If you dont have insurance then a good result seeing as it is a legal requirement.

examples of racism in 20th Century USA: White guy commits a crime, black guy is found guilty.

White folks allowed, blacks not. Etc

examples of racism in Thailand today: you are guilty because of your race. No ifs or buts. The decision was made before the incedent.

One price for Thais, another for foreigners. Etc

I'm sorry if you can't see it.

Anyway, went back to the station with another Thai teacher. She was much better that the first. She really argued for over an hour. The policeman was threatening me with court and asked me to help the girl. I ended up paying half the bill, due to my Thai friend. So, damed if you do, damed if you don't. I'll never stop after an accident again (hope i never have one).

One other point, compulsory insurance doesn't cover third party vehicles, only third party injuries. Hospital bills, not mechanic bills. You need private insurance for that, got it on my car, will look into getting it on the wife's bike. Still won't stop though.

Mate, I don't wish to rattle your cage too much but how long have you been an expat?

1. You're living in somebody elses country. It's not yours. You're a visitor.

2. If you try to apply "your" rules and conditions you'll just end up with ulcers.

3. Relax, go with the flow, and look at all the positives of being allowed to be here as a guest.

4. You have absolutely no right to "insist" on anything. You are a guest.

5. I dare say others will shoot me down but the art of surviving and enjoying the expat life IMO is to "go with the flow".

6. Rattling a bit harder now Why do teachers think they're special? Could be a new topic?

pip pip

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes and no. Item six on your list I don't agree with. Don't know why you think ajarns are special. Understand i'm a guest, different rules, always go with the flow, don't insist on anything and know i have zero rights here. My Thai wife and her family are still in shock over the policeman's attitude. My policy is bend with the breeze or break. I knew as soon as the accident happened that I would get the blame. Why did I stop then? Because I'm a compasionate human being. I wanted to make sure no one was hurt. If it had been my fault I would have taken the girl and her bike to the shop to be fixed. No need for police.

Although we're guest and rules are different, we should be entitled to some basic human rights like inoccent until proven guilty, a fair trial, etc. If we don't have these and it's not because of racism, then what would you say the reason is?

On a positive note, i'm getting private insurance for the bike which I already have on my car. If I cause an accident then i'll stop and let the insurance co deal with it. If someone hits me then i'm not stopping. They can pay for thier own repairs. I'll claim off my insurance for a hit and run to get my repairs paid for.

On your last para.... "Way to go"

[teacherofwoe]

Just had a motorcycle accident at an intersection. Thai girl turning right doesn't look and drives into my path. I call my Thai friend to deal with the translation. My point is that the damage to my bike is minor so don't worry about it. Nobody was injured. I get the phone back and i'm told that she wants me to pay for her bike. Forget it. My friend calls the police. A snake head arrives and starts inspecting her bike. A policeman arrives and talks with the girl and snake head. SH jabbers on while pointing to her bike, the oly word I understand him say is "farang", I give the phone to the policeman, I get it back. Wait for another policeman. He arrives. SH has left by now. More talking. Phone again. Go tot the police station. Arrive at station. Police are taking statement from girls. I'm just hanging around in the lobby, considering just leaving as they didn't take my registration number. Decide to stay, call my school, they send a teacher who can speak English. Finaly get into the interview room, girl has drawn picture etc and told the police I was on the wrong side of the road. I told them what actually happened, Thai teacher translates. Policeman looks out the window. Thai teacher now feels uncomfortable, tries to convince me to pay. Manage to get out of the station before any decision is made. My wife phones the policeman to find out why I don't get a fair hearing, he puts the phone down on her.

Next day more teachers get involved and go to the police station. The police are going to investigate, whatever that means. Will find out more today.

Anyone else had similar? How did it turn out?

I didn't know that "woe" was on the curriculum.

Or is "woe" a Thai word?

Sorry, I'm a bit thick.

pip pip

I'm describing myself as "teacher of woe" not to indicate what I teach but to describe my predicament.woe(n.)Deep distress or misery, as from grief; wretchedness. woe(n.)Misfortune; calamity: economic and political woes.woe(interj.)Used to express sorrow or dismay.

"Oh, woe is me!"

[scotsman]

So from all the information that is in this tread is that if you are a guest in this country & your a farang you have no rights when your in a traffic accident Then why would you drive a car or a motorbike in the first place. What would happen if you went to court? would you get any justice? If the answer is no then I ask the same question why drive anything in this country If you have no 1 first class insurance then how much rights have you got now? If the answer is not much more then again why do we drive in this country If a person from any country was driving in the uk with a valid driving license & full insurance he would have the same justice that any other uk person would have so why is it that some of you say that because I am a guest i don"t have the same right to justice. I think that if the day comes that I don't get any justice in a accident I would also drive away next time & I would give up driving in Thailand as its not worth the problems that go with it. Rant over.

regards

scotsman

[moo9]

You farang you pay! Easy rules....even if the accident absolutely isn't your fault. I know many many cases, even deadly Not alone driving any vehicles in TH is a quite big risk, but also the obligations after an accident. Imagine why most farang companies provide a driver for their expat staff!

Knock on wood, I was never involved in any accident when driving my motorcycle or private car, but I am aware of the risk. Good connections to high ranking BiB may help you sometime, but don't count on it....

[jackspratt]

Absolute nonsense! In "farangland" (a racist comment which I don't appreciate).................

How is the term "farangland" racist?

[dave_boo]

Absolute nonsense! In "farangland" (a racist comment which I don't appreciate).................

How is the term "farangland" racist?

It would be the same as Americans calling all Asians "chinks"(which I condemn). It's a bastardisation of a name of a particular set of foreigners that is ignorantly applied to all. Read about it here. I love the French, especially their women , but I am not one, in fact I could count on 1/5 of my fingers all the French I've met in Thailand. Granted, that's not an accurate sampling, however, it's still slightly racist to see people as Thai or other Asian and then the rest of the world as farang (or farang dam).

[wilko]

Remember forum rules when posting please, abusive comments are not allowed and have been deleted.

OK - so delete/close the the OP who has called the cops "racist" - without any basis, in my opinion.

It is quite often the those who cry "racist" the loudest are the ones who most deserve that handle

Edited February 9, 2008 by wilko

[nikster]

I had an accident about 5 years ago.

I’m certain I was not in the wrong.

I was on Petchaburi road, in the right hand lane, turning right into an office building car park when a mini-van driver decided he was going to overtake me at the same time.

I took photos immediately after the accident.

Back at the police station I was told that I was in the wrong because I was the one making the traffic maneuver.

I pointed out the van was driving the wrong way in a bus lane while attempting to over take me which is also a manover.

The Boss of the Van company came along, the police gave him a nice big wai. Then I was told I should pay because the van had no insurance.

I told them I am not wrong and I am confident I can prove that.

This discussion went back and forth each time my photographs showed on way or another that the Van drive had been telling a little porkie.

The police didn’t want to make the decision of who was right or wrong. They were taking kick backs from the Van company to operate illegally in that area while at the same time I maintained that I was not in the wrong, it was a tricky one for them. We were referred to the head office, they looked at the car and made the decision that we are each responsible for our own part of the accident. I was told that as I had insurance and the other van didn’t and that this was the best solution as my insurance will pay for me, but not the van. I accepted this.

We had to go back to the police station the next morning to get the insurance document signed, while there the van driver wanted to change is story again. The police man stud up, shouted at him and kicked him out of the police station (after taking 400B procession fee off him). I gave over my 400B processing fee, the policeman shook my hand and told me it had been a very interesting case and that while is created a headache for him and more work, he respected my decision not to accept blame (this would have been the normal Thai way, accept blame quickly, go home for tea, insurance deals with the rest).

I left after an interesting incident, feeling as though I’d learned something about Thailand, seeing a side of things that one wouldn’t normally see. I also left with the feeling that sometimes a situation can be sticky but even in a situation like this the police can be as independent as possible. I have a relatively powerful friend who works in the police force at no point did I feel the need to involve him and cause potential embarrassment for those policemen who through out the proceedings never once postured to intimidate me or force my decision to suit their situation.

I left feeling ok about the event and with no fear that the system is against westerners, the system just likes to decide the simplest way to deal with things is to let the wealthier party cover the costs of an unfortunate event.

SBK,

My friends girlfriend had a very similar incident – She’s a Thai lady, and the motorbike driver demanded money off her. She called the police – at first the police said she should pay the guy. She refused. It ended up without her having to pay. If in the a similar circumstance I would also refuse to pay and be quite happy to politely maintain that point with the police. I think the outcome is often not the difference between right and wrong, its often just whatever the easiest decision to make. i.e. Poorer Vs not as Poor… (who appears that they would be hit less by the cost takes or is given the blame).

Middle way, the way of the Buddha

Great story, thanks for sharing.

Thankfully, I don't have any real accident stories to share. Only once, I stopped at the side of the road, then backed into a car I had not seen that was waiting behind me to get around me. The little honda had a bad dent in the front, and it was clearly my fault, I ran out to apologize. Middle aged Thai man inside gets out, looks at the damage, makes a nevermind gesture and decides to leave. TIT!

[jackspratt]

Absolute nonsense! In "farangland" (a racist comment which I don't appreciate).................

How is the term "farangland" racist?

It would be the same as Americans calling all Asians "chinks"(which I condemn). It's a bastardisation of a name of a particular set of foreigners that is ignorantly applied to all. Read about it here. I love the French, especially their women , but I am not one, in fact I could count on 1/5 of my fingers all the French I've met in Thailand. Granted, that's not an accurate sampling, however, it's still slightly racist to see people as Thai or other Asian and then the rest of the world as farang (or farang dam).

Thanks for the reference, but it gets me no closer to understanding why "farang"is racist. Neither does the bit about the French.

Farang (in Thai: ฝรั่ง), sometimes pronounced falang, is the generic Thai word for a foreigner of European ancestry. While generally farang is a neutral word, it can be used in a mocking manner, or even as an insult depending on context. For instance, the expression "farang ta nam khao" (listen (help·info)) (in Thai: ฝรั่งตาน้ำข้าว - which literally means farang with rice-milk-colored iris) would be considered an insult. It is common in Thai to just say "farang" to point out the presence of one, without making a whole sentence. Black Americans have been occasionally referred to as farang dum (black farang) in Thai: ฝรั่งดำ especially American servicemen during the Vietnam War.

I note that context is highlighted in the above reference from Wikipedia.

Perhaps I need thinner skin to understand when someone is referring to me in a racist manner

[Arkady]

I once indicated to turn right into a restaurant while driving a car in Bkk giving plenty of warning and a motorbike came up like a bat out of hel_l and tried to overtake me just as I started to execute the turn with the obvious consequences. A patrolman turned up within minutes and said he had witnessed the accident and that it was entirely the motorcyclist's fault. Moreover, he also said that he could see the motorcyclist and his male pillion were steaming drunk. He told me to go and eat my dinner and then report to the station where he would vouch for me. When I got the station, he was nowhere to be seen and I was later told he had gone home without mentioning the accident (which was probably a lie). After making me wait outside for over an hour, the captain in charge of the station immediately launched into the "you lich falang, he poor Thai, you pay routine". I refused to pay anything and was eventually allowed to leave the station at 3 in the morning. The police captain suddenly showed up at my office in person a couple of weeks later looking for me. Luckily I was out and my secretary, who knew the story, smilingly told him that I had been sent on an important assignment overseas by head office and wouldn't be back in Thailand for 4-6 months. We never saw or heard anything of the stupid jerk after that.

[wilko]

Methinks some people should read up on the mechanisms of racism...it is not a subject that anyone on this posting has shown any indication of any understanding of the term and how it works.......

[wilko]

Methinks some people should read up on the mechanisms of racism...it is not a subject that anyone on this posting has shown any indication of any understanding of the term and how it works.......

as for being stopped by the police in Thailand, if one reads between the lines, all I can say is "som nam naa"....

[dave_boo]

Methinks some people should read up on the mechanisms of racism...it is not a subject that anyone on this posting has shown any indication of any understanding of the term and how it works.......

as for being stopped by the police in Thailand, if one reads between the lines, all I can say is "som nam naa"....

Well, seeing how the UN International Convention defines it as thus: "the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

I would say there's a good case that using the word Farang is an exclusion of recognition of foreigner's individuality base solely on the fact that they don't have a national/ethnic origin that is Thai. Take special note that it does have the effect of nullifying the recognition, on an equal footing, of basic human rights.

[sibeymai]

Had an accident a week ago. Nobody else involved. The police came, checked my license, organised for the vehicle to be towed to the station, drove me to a hotel for the night, negotiated a discounted room rate for me, offered to take me to the hospital (which was not ncessary). No threats, blackmail or intimidation, no demands for money, no blame. The police organised for the insurance guys to check out the vehicle at the station 5 days later and take it for repairs. Thus far I have not had to sign any report, pay a fine or pay any processing fee, not a single baht. The officer who took me to the hotel refused 1,000 baht I offered him.

Not all the BIB are bad.

[torrenova]

I can't stand all this crap about being guests in another country. In my country, the UK, we have millions of unwanted "guests" and Thailand as corrupt as it is, did not specifically write the laws to discriminate against guests did it or was I asleep when that happened.

To all of you who cow tow to this lunacy without even making a stance when you know that you are in the right only goes to perpetuate this wrong which is racist against non Thais. I do not doubt that Thais themselves hate this crazy situation but we are not talking about that, we are talking about westerners having accidents in Thailand which by mathematical definition, will likely be with a Thai.

Maybe you can pay for my accidents when some uninsured drunk no license Thai crashes into my car ? he should be hung out to dry.

[LivinLOS]

I also dont get this 'guests' thing that people state either... Perhaps these poeple have only lived in one or two countries in thier lives and simply thing 'my place' and 'not my place'...

I was born in one country.. Moved to another at 2.. Another at 5.. Left that as soon as I was adult enough to get by alone and have been back to the country I hold the passport of for about 5 or so weeks in the last 15 years. Neither of my parents live in that country either. I have lived longer as an adult in other countries than in the place of my citizenship, in fact I have lived in Thailand longer too !!

So I always have been and always will be a 'guest' somewhere.. I dont see how that effects right and wrong. when someone is at fault they should pay, when I am at fault I should pay. Drunk licenseless idiots should be made to suffer the consequences of thier dumb actions, and I will go out of my way to make sure that is applied. What I am supposed to kiss ass and be eternally grateful to be allowed to simply exist ?? You must all have a pretty low opinion of your self worth.

[jts-khorat]

I also dont get this 'guests' thing that people state either... Perhaps these poeple have only lived in one or two countries in thier lives and simply thing 'my place' and 'not my place'...

I think there is a deep misunderstanding what the words 'guest' means in Thailand and how they should be treated -- the treatment mentioned here is the abolute opposite. To explain: contrary to just being a visitor, a 'guest' should receive special treatment, being specifically honored and invited to attend the home (or country). The best food, the best sleeping place in the house, and so on.

How us being 'guests' is compatible with receiving specifically worse treatment then the people who invited us, is beyond me. But then of course I personally do not believe we are guests, I do think we are merely 'customers'. Which of course means, that the Thais do not get any more specific respect back from me than any normal business transaction warrants.

Just so many foreigners here in Thailand got everything wrong right from their first day here, so I cannot blame them for being totally confused by now.

[torrenova]

Just so many foreigners here in Thailand got everything wrong right from their first day here, so I cannot blame them for being totally confused by now.

Because believe it or not, most of the blokes here, for one reason or another, were enticed by the charms of the fairer (sic) sex. Therefore, a large majority and certainly the vast majority of the first wave of western immigrants were thinking with their small heads and not with their big ones.

That is a fact I see everyday here in LOS.

[wilko]

Methinks some people should read up on the mechanisms of racism...it is not a subject that anyone on this posting has shown any indication of any understanding of the term and how it works.......

as for being stopped by the police in Thailand, if one reads between the lines, all I can say is "som nam naa"....

Well, seeing how the UN International Convention defines it as thus: "the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

I would say there's a good case that using the word Farang is an exclusion of recognition of foreigner's individuality base solely on the fact that they don't have a national/ethnic origin that is Thai. Take special note that it does have the effect of nullifying the recognition, on an equal footing, of basic human rights.

I'm not criticising your own interpretation, what I'm saying is that the majority of posters on this web site do not appear to understand either that statement properly or racism in all its ghastly and myriad forms........simply quoting a couple of lines from a UN document is not enough...... that is part of an in depth appraisal of racism throughout the world and how it works....and I really don't think that many here seem to have a handle on that.

Therefore blaming one's own misfortune in one particular incident on an entire nation being racist seems to be a rather unlikely proposition.

[dave_boo]

Methinks some people should read up on the mechanisms of racism...it is not a subject that anyone on this posting has shown any indication of any understanding of the term and how it works.......

as for being stopped by the police in Thailand, if one reads between the lines, all I can say is "som nam naa"....

Well, seeing how the UN International Convention defines it as thus: "the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, color, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

I would say there's a good case that using the word Farang is an exclusion of recognition of foreigner's individuality base solely on the fact that they don't have a national/ethnic origin that is Thai. Take special note that it does have the effect of nullifying the recognition, on an equal footing, of basic human rights.

I'm not criticising your own interpretation, what I'm saying is that the majority of posters on this web site do not appear to understand either that statement properly or racism in all its ghastly and myriad forms........simply quoting a couple of lines from a UN document is not enough...... that is part of an in depth appraisal of racism throughout the world and how it works....and I really don't think that many here seem to have a handle on that.

Therefore blaming one's own misfortune in one particular incident on an entire nation being racist seems to be a rather unlikely proposition.

I wasn't blaming a whole nation for the sins of a few....in fact I really didn't read that in the OP. I still stand by my assertion that using the word 'falang' is racist. It may not be overt racism, but it is at its core; much the same way Crack-Cocaine offenses in the States get stiffer penalties than Cocaine offenses (reason that that example is racist is that they're both illict drugs; however, ~90% of offenders of Crack-Cocaine laws are Black and about the same percentage of offenders of Cocaine laws are white...this is another form of racism).

[torrenova]

I hate the word "farang" in any context as it is so widely misused and I will avoid it if at all possible but when you have it used against you as in "you farang" and "you pay" then you don't have to be Einstein to work out that it is being used in a completely racist fashion.

What tends to get glossed over is that we foreigners buy insurance and the fact that many Thais do not. They are the ones breaking the law and yet we are supposed to pay for their recklessness directly in cash and again in raised insurance premiums. I'm sorry, I can't agree to that.

[Lucifer]

I always enjoy these "the farang always pay" stories. My Thai husband was making a right hand turn into our driveway, with his indicator on when a farang drove into the side of the truck as my husband was turning. Lucky for the farang he flew into bushes and was unhurt. His reasoning? He thought my husband was overtaking the motorbike in front of him and thought he would overtake my husband's truck at the same time.

Outcome? Police called and my husband had to pay for half the damages to his own truck or see his truck impounded pending an investigation since the farang refused to pay for the total damage.

Your Thai husband is married to a Farang. Same, same.

Farang pay.

[jackspratt]

Galong and dave_boo - perhaps you ought to read this thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=farang++racist

to get a wider perspective on the issue of whether farang is a racist term.

From me for now - off topic, and no further comments.

Regards