Does Speaking Thai Fluently Really Open Doors?

[OmarComing]

So I speak Thai at an intermediate level, have no problem going about my daily life but no way can I understand the speedy talking news people or really hold a solid conversation beyond basic/common stuff. the thing is though that if a thai person is intelligent enough for me to enjoy their company, it seems likely that they will speak english better than i can ever hope to speak thai. who am i supposed to speak to in thai? the security guard, taxi driver, som tum lady?

i know that many guys like talking to these people but it always seems more like an ego boist for the farang than an actual caring relationship. he pretends like he is in a movie or something 'Mr Farang is coming': "How is your dad Ping? Oh, yeah it sure is hot today. (waits to see that gleaming look in her eye) Ok, som tum pboo."....

the most ridiculous thing ever is when you hear farang pronouncing english words the way thais do it. they speak thai quickly, then give that pause, and then pronounce the english word slowly using the thai (incorrect) tones, change the r to l, etc... and all of their gestures mimick what you see all the farang who get on television doing.... dude, why dont you just talk the way you would normally talk. do you think that they wont understand you? witnessing this sort of thing makes me unable to respect the person putting on the show and playing 'Mr Farang'. buddy, no movie agents are coming around the corner offering you a role on the next thai melodrama.

btw it is also my opinion that when thais start talking to farang they are doing it more as friendly joke behind his back than anything. he thinks they are doing back flips because "poot dai" but its really like he is a side show or the one of the minor characters from their drama. guy, why not walk around with a cup and accept tips while you are at it?

Edited February 8, 2008 by OmarComing

[GuestHouse]

It's not so much fluency that counts as the kind of Thai you speak.

Speaking the 'right Thai' definitely opens doors, speaking the 'wrong Thai' slams doors in your face.

[OmarComing]

when you say right and wrong thai are you talking in symbols or do you just mean the ability to pronounce words/understand grammar? i am interested in what you mean, i really don't get what you are talking about. examples please....

[fletchsmile]

It's not so much fluency that counts as the kind of Thai you speak.

Speaking the 'right Thai' definitely opens doors, speaking the 'wrong Thai' slams doors in your face

...or opens the wrong doors

Edited February 8, 2008 by fletchsmile

[taxexile]

omarcoming tink too mut

[OmarComing]

It's not so much fluency that counts as the kind of Thai you speak.

Speaking the 'right Thai' definitely opens doors, speaking the 'wrong Thai' slams doors in your face...or opens the wrong doors

I really have no idea what you guys are talking about. The ability to speak good Thai is just about practice, it doesnt say anyhting about your intelligence or yourself as a person. How does speaking good Thai open good doors and speaking bad thai open bad doors. you guys are talking in riddles to me.

[meadish_sweetball]

the most ridiculous thing ever is when you hear farang pronouncing english words the way thais do it. they speak thai quickly, then give that pause, and then pronounce the english word slowly using the thai (incorrect) tones, change the r to l, etc... and all of their gestures mimick what you see all the farang who get on television doing.... dude, why dont you just talk the way you would normally talk. do you think that they wont understand you?

A large number of English loan words have been added into the Thai lexicon, and when they are, they will follow Thai pronunciation rules, which means restrictions in length of consonant clusters and obligatory phonemic tones for each syllable.

This is a normal process, and the same applies for loans into English and all other languages.

French loans into English are not pronounced like standard French, and by attempting to do so one would sound rather odd, in the same way as Thais make fun of other Thais attempting to approach English pronunciation of loan words that already have an established pronunciation in Thai.

Some Thais truly find it difficult to pick English words pronounced in an English accent, in the middle of a number of Thai words.

[isabelle17]

Okay, well I dont know about the whole "good doors" "bad doors" thing....

I agree that if you attempt to speak Thai language the way it is supposed to be spoken, you obviously will not be made fun of as much and possibly treated with more respect.

Also...I dont know that Thais are really laughing at falangs behind their back....at least not in a "Haha, that falang doesnt know anything" type of manner. I know that I am giggled at a lot when I speak Thai, mostly because:

1. a foreigner that can speak Thai IS somewhat rare, even now, especially in rural areas.

2.they think its funny (not in a bad way, but I have found that the little kids find it especially amusing.)

3. They are happy that you are at least trying to communicate with them in their own language.

Anyway, I think foreigners should at least try to speak Thai, whether you are good at it or not. Practice makes perfect, right?

So...I am still a little confused about what the OP is trying to say...? Does knowing thai language open doors? Of course. Knowing any other language other than your own opens doors to new oppurtunities...

Edited February 8, 2008 by isabelle17

[OmarComing]

i mean does it open doors to stimulating intellectual conversation and personal relationships or is it just a way for you to do tricks for thais. if the latter then ill just get a magic kit.

[sutnyod]

If you speak beautiful Thai effortlessly, just like a Thai, you will be surprised what it can do for you. But doors not only open because you somehow took the effort to learn, but also because you are supposed to have much more insight into society.

[GuestHouse]

By right and wrong, I’m talking about a bunch of things that are rolled up into two groups.

Acceptable vocabulary and unacceptable vocabulary, acceptable topics and unacceptable topics, acceptable dialect and unacceptable dialect, good manners in language and ill manners in language.

The rules of language use in a highly class structured society.

A great deal of the content in the Thai language lessons I took covered this subject of right and wrong speech and expression.

These rules which are in truth a reflection of the culture in the language project a range of information critical in Thai social relationships.

Conversely, overhearing a foreigner breaking those rules – and particularly when he’s using inappropriate language (courser or over familiar) sets my teeth on edge, I’m absolutely sure Thais pick this up way way more so.

The same is true the world over - Why not in Thailand?!

The difference in Thailand is perhaps where many foreigners learn their Thai.

[OmarComing]

the most ridiculous thing ever is when you hear farang pronouncing english words the way thais do it. they speak thai quickly, then give that pause, and then pronounce the english word slowly using the thai (incorrect) tones, change the r to l, etc... and all of their gestures mimick what you see all the farang who get on television doing.... dude, why dont you just talk the way you would normally talk. do you think that they wont understand you?

A large number of English loan words have been added into the Thai lexicon, and when they are, they will follow Thai pronunciation rules, which means restrictions in length of consonant clusters and obligatory phonemic tones for each syllable.

This is a normal process, and the same applies for loans into English and all other languages.

French loans into English are not pronounced like standard French, and by attempting to do so one would sound rather odd, in the same way as Thais make fun of other Thais attempting to approach English pronunciation of loan words that already have an established pronunciation in Thai.

Some Thais truly find it difficult to pick English words pronounced in an English accent, in the middle of a number of Thai words.

Ok, it still drives me out of my mind. Just learn to say the words in english. Native speakers saying com instead of computer should be hanged. I will come back late I am gonna go watch some tee-wee.

[LivinLOS]

I can agree that it can have its silly / sad side (Buddha amulet medallion man is another pet peeve).. But at least they are trying, if you dont try, dont practice with people, how should you improve.. You improve by doing.

the most ridiculous thing ever is when you hear farang pronouncing english words the way thais do it. they speak thai quickly, then give that pause, and then pronounce the english word slowly using the thai (incorrect) tones, change the r to l, etc... and all of their gestures mimick what you see all the farang who get on television doing.... dude, why dont you just talk the way you would normally talk. do you think that they wont understand you? witnessing this sort of thing makes me unable to respect the person putting on the show and playing 'Mr Farang'. buddy, no movie agents are coming around the corner offering you a role on the next thai melodrama.

Again, I know the point your making, but Thais do seem to pick up on what your saying in Tinglish than pure english.. Either pronouncing a single word in tinglish or if your thai is bad emulating simple thai grammar structure "friend go room she" etc..

[RueFang]

If you speak intermediate Thai I would think that you've already seen that this "opens doors" for you..such as paying real prices, not inflated farang prices. Example - every time I go to a national park and they see that I'm farang, they ask the 200/400 baht entry fee, but as soon as I speak Thai, they laugh and let me in for local price.

Also, if people can speak intermediate Thai, they will know that many Thai words have been taken from the English language (computer, internet, tissue - titshoo, etc) and to pronounce them as Thais do is not incorrect as it is using a Thai word with different pronunciation from the original English word.

[OmarComing]

By right and wrong, I'm talking about a bunch of things that are rolled up into two groups.

Acceptable vocabulary and unacceptable vocabulary, acceptable topics and unacceptable topics, acceptable dialect and unacceptable dialect, good manners in language and ill manners in language.

The rules of language use in a highly class structured society.

A great deal of the content in the Thai language lessons I took covered this subject of right and wrong speech and expression.

These rules which are in truth a reflection of the culture in the language project a range of information critical in Thai social relationships.

Conversely, overhearing a foreigner breaking those rules – and particularly when he's using inappropriate language (courser or over familiar) sets my teeth on edge, I'm absolutely sure Thais pick this up way way more so.

The same is true the world over - Why not in Thailand?!

The difference in Thailand is perhaps where many foreigners learn their Thai.

this is the kind of thing i am talking about. why would i want to jump through all those hoops. i would much rather just hang out with my international thai friends. i just dont get why anyone would want to go through all that effort just so they can impress some upple crusts, plus are these peoples really going to care about anything other than you bank account anyways. for instance, will they be more impressed by a guy wearing a suit that costs 1/4 as much as mine because he is better at this sort of thing than i am? seems doubtful.

anyways, that is what i mean though. i have many farang friends who seem set on jumping through these hoops so they can be a side show or something at thai get togethers like "our farang friend". guys act totally different around the farang/thai international raised group.

i like thailand, but i am not thai. you guys aren't thai either and even if you figure out their codes i still dont see them ever really accepting you more than a side joke.

back to my tee wee.

Edited February 8, 2008 by OmarComing

[LivinLOS]

when you say right and wrong thai are you talking in symbols or do you just mean the ability to pronounce words/understand grammar? i am interested in what you mean, i really don't get what you are talking about. examples please....

I really have no idea what you guys are talking about. The ability to speak good Thai is just about practice, it doesnt say anyhting about your intelligence or yourself as a person. How does speaking good Thai open good doors and speaking bad thai open bad doors. you guys are talking in riddles to me.

I think the point being made is.. If you pick up low class Thai (often in bars talking to bar workers and issanites) and then use that kind of Thai in any Thai social or business interaction.. Your not going to impress.. Alai wa ?? Etc...

[GuestHouse]

I really have no idea what you guys are talking about. The ability to speak good Thai is just about practice, it doesnt say anyhting about your intelligence or yourself as a person. How does speaking good Thai open good doors and speaking bad thai open bad doors. you guys are talking in riddles to me.

If you are unable to understand that the language we use and the way we use it is absolutely an indication of intelligence, education, personality and social background (Things extremely important in all societies and particularly in Thai society) then I doubt you are going to get any answer that you can accept unless it agrees with your own clear preconceptions - as indicated in your Opening Post.

You've asked a question and attacked other foreigners use of language in Thailand without wanting to hear answers to the question you asked.

[OmarComing]

I really have no idea what you guys are talking about. The ability to speak good Thai is just about practice, it doesnt say anyhting about your intelligence or yourself as a person. How does speaking good Thai open good doors and speaking bad thai open bad doors. you guys are talking in riddles to me.

If you are unable to understand that the language we use and the way we use it is absolutely an indication of intelligence, education, personality and social background (Things extremely important in all societies and particularly in Thai society) then I doubt you are going to get any answer that you can accept unless it agrees with your own clear preconceptions - as indicated in your Opening Post.

You've asked a question and attacked other foreigners use of language in Thailand without wanting to hear answers to the question you asked.

well the last guy made sense when he said you will speak different thai if you hang around bars or work in thailand, but you are telling me that they way i speak thai will give thai people a good idea of how smart i am and my educational and social background? that just ridiculous. for instance, say i am a self made millionaire. i learn thai by going to a class and getting some books. another guy is just here on a one year vacation and gets the same books and same class. you are saying that when we speak a year from now the thai person will know who has more money and who came from what social class? sounds silly to me.

Edited February 8, 2008 by OmarComing

[GuestHouse]

this is the kind of thing i am talking about. why would i want to jump through all those hoops. i would much rather just hang out with my international thai friends. i just dont get why anyone would want to go through all that effort just so they can impress some upple crusts, plus are these peoples really going to care about anything other than you bank account anyways. for instance, will they be more impressed by a guy wearing a suit that costs 1/4 as much as mine because he is better at this sort of thing than i am? seems doubtful.

anyways, that is what i mean though. i have many farang friends who seem set on jumping through these hoops so they can be a side show or something at thai get togethers like "our farang friend". guys act totally different around the farang/thai international raised group.

i like thailand, but i am not thai. you guys aren't thai either and even if you figure out their codes i still dont see them ever really accepting you more than a side joke.

back to my tee wee.

You ask does the Thai you speak open doors, but clearly want to stick with the limited circle of doors that are open to you.

As for impressing upper class Thais - Where do you get that from.

It is my observation (and it ought not to be a surprise) that well spoken, polite and culturally aware Thai opens doors across all levels of Thai society. It encompasses respect for Thai language and culture and respect for the person you are speaking to - regardless of who that person is.

[GuestHouse]

for instance, say i am a self made millionaire.

Why do you feel the need to tells is that you are a self made millionaire?

[rixalex]

So I speak Thai at an intermediate level, have no problem going about my daily life but no way can I understand the speedy talking news people or really hold a solid conversation beyond basic/common stuff.

Just a question... what makes you place yourself at intermediate level when you can't hold a conversation beyond basic common stuff?

[OmarComing]

You ask does the Thai you speak open doors, but clearly want to stick with the limited circle of doors that are open to you.

As for impressing upper class Thais - Where do you get that from.

It is my observation (and it ought not to be a surprise) that well spoken, polite and culturally aware Thai opens doors across all levels of Thai society. It encompasses respect for Thai language and culture and respect for the person you are speaking to - regardless of who that person is.

Ok, I see it and I dont because I was thinking that speaking Thai is kind of low-so because if you are a baller you are probably way to busy and rich to have time to learn Thai fluently. Thailand is a small little third world country the value of learning the language is very small. If it takes X hours to become fluent and learn all the correct words for each situation I could put that time to something way more productive like reading books, writing, travel, my hobbies, a million different things. i dont see the cost benefit and when a farang speaks fluent thai i think to myself: either he is an english teacher, or spending a ton of time in the villiage or he just has a lot of free time on his hands.

but i do agree that every farang should speak atleast at an intermediate level so they are not a total stumbling noob. the real cool thais you want to chill with speak english clearly anyways. trust me on that.

[meadish_sweetball]

If forced to choose between คอม and คอมพิวเตอร์ which takes the falling tone on the final syllable, I know which one I prefer to use in order not to sound silly.

i like thailand, but i am not thai. you guys aren't thai either and even if you figure out their codes i still dont see them ever really accepting you more than a side joke.

I still have plenty of codes to figure out and I do realize I will never be Thai and that some people will never accept me.

That realization does not stop me from trying to learn as much as I can about the country I have chosen to live in though, because in my experience, the people who can become good friends will appreciate the effort. The rest I won't be able to change, and consequently try not to worry about so much.

i dont see the cost benefit and when a farang speaks fluent thai i think to myself: either he is an english teacher, or spending a ton of time in the villiage or he just has a lot of free time on his hands.

I choose not to view the world in terms of direct economic benefits because I have enough to get by already, and I find language studies are fun in their own right, perhaps it will be easier for you to understand if I tell you it's my hobby. A hobby I think does have clear benefits, if nothing else it is good exercise for some parts of the brain.

[OmarComing]

for instance, say i am a self made millionaire.

Why do you feel the need to tells is that you are a self made millionaire?

i didn't. i gave an example. that was your intrepretation. my point being that i think thais are more impressed by straight up wealth than your ability to speak thai. thats just my observation.

[OmarComing]

So I speak Thai at an intermediate level, have no problem going about my daily life but no way can I understand the speedy talking news people or really hold a solid conversation beyond basic/common stuff.

Just a question... what makes you place yourself at intermediate level when you can't hold a conversation beyond basic common stuff?

i got through "intermediate thai" so that is what i am basing it on!

[OmarComing]

If forced to choose between คอม and คอมพิวเตอร์ which takes the falling tone on the final syllable, I know which one I prefer to use in order not to sound silly.

i like thailand, but i am not thai. you guys aren't thai either and even if you figure out their codes i still dont see them ever really accepting you more than a side joke.

I still have plenty of codes to figure out and I do realize I will never be Thai and that some people will never accept me.

That realization does not stop me from trying to learn as much as I can about the country I have chosen to live in though, because in my experience, the people who can become good friends will appreciate the effort. The rest I won't be able to change, and consequently try not to worry about so much.

Cool. We need experts in every field even if they seem unimportant. Thai is one of them. I am happy you and others are doing it, so lazy guys like me dont have to.

[rixalex]

So I speak Thai at an intermediate level, have no problem going about my daily life but no way can I understand the speedy talking news people or really hold a solid conversation beyond basic/common stuff.

Just a question... what makes you place yourself at intermediate level when you can't hold a conversation beyond basic common stuff?

i got through "intermediate thai" so that is what i am basing it on!

You have studied Thai? Aren't you telling us that it's a useless language with no benefit?

[OmarComing]

it lets me order food and make small talk with people i guess that is about it. do they even write books in thai? my thai friend told me something like "thai people dont like to read long books". i mean yeah, its much better to undertand some thai and i am about the most polite guy youll meet in thailand but there are a million of things that make a better use of my time.

i studied with books and pimseleur cds. i havent studied in months though so i have lost some of it. but i do think its great that some farang can understand it and can help us learn and provide that source.

Edited February 8, 2008 by OmarComing

[GuestHouse]

How are the T-shirt sales going?

[OmarComing]

no need to get insulted. people have different goals and value for their time. if you got enjoyment out of learning thai fluently than you should be happy with that. i mean, do you want me to scan my irs return? would that make you happy? so i will play along. yeah tshirt sales are great. what size muay thai handkerchief do you wear ill get you 2 for 1 special. free shipping.

Edited February 8, 2008 by OmarComing