Legal Advice Needed For My Appartment Purchase At The River Condominium Complex

[ditch0]

Hello folks,

Yes I'm a newbie so please be patient with me. I am reading the forum rules as I go along, so hopefully I'll not not make any innocent mistakes I certainly won't be using any insulting comments or profanities. I use forums quite a bit, so I'm pretty sure I will be OK.

To the point.

My best friend and his wife are buying a condo at The River complex in Bangkok - www.theriverbangkok.com for those of you who aren't familiar with it.

It's off plan and will not be finished until the end of 2011, so you get to pay the first 40% of it in installments over 3 years. Finally, when it's ready for occupancy, you pay the remaining 60% of the agreed price, sing the finalization documents and get your 100% ownership certificate from the department of land and what ever it's called? So you end up owning it 100% outright, even though you are a foreigner.

Well of course, how could I resist it? So I have started the process of buying a small 2 bed unit for my self. I payed the 100,000 THB reservation fee on Thursday and I have until the 22nd Feb. to pay a 10% deposit and then you have to pay 36 monthly installments which add up to a total of 30 %.

I've been emailed my receipt and reservation acknowledgement and a partial segment of the purchase agreement, the full hard copy of the contract will be Fedexed over for me to sign with a witness and then return for the developer's marketing company (Taksin properties) to sign with their witness.

Now I have bought and sold several houses here in the UK and recently just sold my home before the market started falling. So far so good. I have never bought a property overseas before but I will probably buy and live in Bulgaria for a year or two and spend the winters in Thailand as usual. Whether you buy in France, the USA or Bulgaria, there is the usual, equivalent legal procedures, stamp duties or similar and Notary fees. As I said, I have only just paid the booking fee and then I've got 12 days left to sign the purchasing agreement and pay the 10% deposit. When I asked my friend what they are doing about about the legal side, he said that they are not going to bother because they know all the sale executives and everything about the company is kosher.

I'm afraid I'm fairly cynical and have been ripped off more than once by people whom I thought were very good friends, so this is why I am seeking guidance.

The whole payment structure has to be done to the letter and HAS to be paid for in foreign currency with a declaration for the purpose of the money transfer, otherwise - and it says so in one of the emails I got - the Thai government will not give you the deeds of ownership. It just sounds a bit dangerous to me. I'm damned if I'm going to keep transferring money in to a company's bank account for 3 years and then get told told to P*** off, without a leg to stand on.

Now, this isn't an open invitation for some Thai law firm to charge in and cream me for a ridiculous amount of money unnecessarily, when all I need to do is some perform some simple formality, so I am asking for some straight honest advice please.

Any advice, especially if this now becoming a regular occurrence in Thailand, will be greatly appreciated. I am doing this for my retirement and basically will be spending the proceeds of my house sale and a good percentage of my savings (No I'm not Rich and I don't have a pension) If this all goes wrong I will need to go to the top of the condo and jump off! - Trouble is, I won't be able to get in to the building to use the lifts because I won't get past Security Haa!

No seriously, all advice welcome.

Many Thanks

Richard

[PadThaiGuy]

Buying off-plan and supporting the developer with monthly construction payments?

There are 5000 empty condo rooms in town and you want one that isn't built yet.

Say it aint so.

[bob4you]

and there is no guarantee that when complete they won't tell you the price went up and you have to pay more, or the unit you bought is 5 sq mt smaller than the original plans,.

[backflip]

Richard,

Thousands of people (Thai and farangs) buy condominiums in the manner than you mentioned. Essentially, all of the money you use to buy a condo must be transferred from outside of Thailand, and that's easy to do. The biggest risk is that the condo will not be completed when specified. Delays of 6 months to one year are not unusual, even if the developer is properly funded. Accordingly, your purchase contract should specify a penalty clause for delayed completion. As another poster commented, your specific unit might be slightly smaller or larger than specified, and the purchase price will be revised to reflect that.

The alternative to that is to wait until the project is completed, and then buy a resale unit. However, depending upon the location, the resale price is likely to be considerably higher than the originally offered price.

[DavidS]

Richard,

The biggest risk is that the condo will not be completed when specified.

I'm sorry, but the biggest risk is that the project may never be completed and you lose everything. A Thai friend bought into a condo project near the river some years back. When the crisis hit, the building was at the stage of internal work, ie almost there. Developer went broke (supposedly), abandoned it. Buyers trying to get someone else to take over and complete, developer who still holds title will not agree terms.

Friend cut his losses and bought into another condo that was ready for occupation.

Does not happen all the time, and the reputable companies are OK (I think), but disaster does happen.

[ProThaiExpat]

If the long term payment of your 40% deposit is not of importance financially, buying off the plan for completion in three years has many dangers explained in other posts.

This is not a "legal" issue but one of financial risk. If you have not seen a great number of units that are available on the market now, you haven't done your homework.

Glossy pictures are things fantasies are made of. If you have thoroughly investigated the firm in question and seen the developments that they have built in the past with the same ownership structure as now, beware.

You might ask them how they did in 1997 with their projects underway at that time and if they have no such experience then beware.

A lease with option to buy is a method of delaying coming up with the purchase price if delayed payment of principal is important on an existing unit.

Even in buying suits in Thailand, buying one off the rack and having it altered to fit allows you to see what you are getting, so it is with this important financial transaction.

[quiksilva]

First thing I would say is that yes the Thai law requires that all money for the condo purchase must be brought in from overseas, and the regulations stipulate the need of this declaration that you speak, so no this is not unusual.

The payment methodology is also fairly typical for new condominium developments in Thailand.

If anyone can refute this with proof of a new condominium development that does not have a staged payment scheme then kindly please post.

Raimon Land, the developer are a public listed company and since their restructuring in the years following the crisis have since completed the projects they started, so far.

[ray08]

Buying off-plan and supporting the developer with monthly construction payments?

There are 5000 empty condo rooms in town and you want one that isn't built yet.

Say it aint so.

100% correct , if you want to purchase buy what you can see and touch and is totally complete ,giving away 40% unsecured and interest free for 3-4 years for a glossy brochure is not exactly a great idea

[DragonQuest]

#1 (Taksin properties)- The #1 corupt name in thailand, and your doing business with him>???? LOL ROFLMAO

#2 the company is kosher- bullcrap , how can you trust someone and be so senial?

#3 Thai government will not give you the deeds of ownership- 100% true, you cant own anything here.

#4 It just sounds a bit dangerous to me- indeed my friend indeed, you are being raped lol

#5 legal side, he said that they are not going to bother - worst step you can make, that should be the first step when dumping a load of money into coruption, sadly you will never win either way.

#6 cream me - o yes baby, all over you and your money lol

#7 top of the condo and jump off- dont be stupid, if you can buy a cheaper condo for 1 million baht, least youll have spare money for your retirement and learned your lesson the hard way.

#8 and the biggest mistake, how can you buy something you cant see??? let the thais do that!!!!!! not us!

why dont you just rent a nice hotel and pay cash everyday? thailand has THOSANDS of hotels , very nice 1 star- 5 star hotels, can fit any budget, thailand wants only one thing YOUR MONEY, so be it.

[Irene]

Richard,

First, I have been buying condos off-plan for years and have not been conned once. But I have my ways of doing due diligence. I look into the background of developers to determine whether they are honest and care for their good name to do business in future, the names like Siri, Qhouse, Land and House that should be Ok. But for the first time developer, I tend to stay clear from them. Second, while making instalment payments, I would visit the sites to see the progress. Finally, I would keep in touch with the salegirlds and find out on their progress of sales.

In your case, I don't know the name of Taksin developer or of the River project. But I feel somewhat uncomfortable of you having the last penny in investing in such a project full of uncertainty and without appearance in the country.

[ray08]

Richard,

First, I have been buying condos off-plan for years and have not been conned once. But I have my ways of doing due diligence. I look into the background of developers to determine whether they are honest and care for their good name to do business in future, the names like Siri, Qhouse, Land and House that should be Ok. But for the first time developer, I tend to stay clear from them. Second, while making instalment payments, I would visit the sites to see the progress. Finally, I would keep in touch with the salegirlds and find out on their progress of sales.

Irene searches and previous good record of a developer is a good start,but of course things change without the public knowing the inside going on of a company , As i am used to having deposit money left in a Trust account i am not too keen to buy off the plan ,even though there is a saving , again a personel risk choice , But you raised a point of saying keeping in touch with salesgirls which i found in past dealings they are a knotch above used cars salespeople ,

What interest me is where you visit the site to see the progress , a very good idea , but what happens after 2 payments and you see the site slowing down? with say 20% down , do you have any legal leg to stand on in regards to stoping payments or asking for refund on the basis that the work does not look like going to progress or not to the standard or specifications as per contract .

That is the kind of situation which would worry me say on a thb 30m plus property

[thaihome]

The OP has received the usual divergent advice on buying off plan. We bought off plan in 2005 and unit was completed about 4 months late in 2006 (there was no penalty clause). By the time we moved in prices had increased by over 20% and the speculators did very well.

Despite the fact that CBRE is in the business and this is probably not be the most objective analysis, it is an interesting read NO BUBBLE YET

TH

[ray08]

The OP has received the usual divergent advice on buying off plan. We bought off plan in 2005 and unit was completed about 4 months late in 2006 (there was no penalty clause). By the time we moved in prices had increased by over 20% and the speculators did very well.

Despite the fact that CBRE is in the business and this is probably not be the most objective analysis, it is an interesting read NO BUBBLE YET

TH

Yes , taking a calculated risk earned you a 20% profit , in the real estate forum there are also stories about losses doing the same thing ,the CBRE fellow makes out that the Bangkok market is the ants pants of real estate , them again as you said not the most objective analysis , In the end buying off the plan is simple weigh up the risks versus the rewards and see where your comfort Zone is ,

[trajan]

If you sign with reputable, experienced developers (like TCC Capita Land (Athenee, Emporio, Empire Place etc.) Raimon Land (The Lakes, Legend, The River etc.), the risk is lower IMHO..... the risk is much much higher if you go with a developer like Grande Asset (Regent Residences)......

I believe the Parliament has already gone through three readings of the Escrow Account law, and if the current government passes it, it might provide a greater degree of protection for buyers in these situations...

[samran]

Raimon land as far as I understand aren't some two bit developer and are one of the best around.

If you are need to understand a little bit more about them, look at their investor relations material and their quarterly analyst meetings, which are available on their website. You'll get a good idea of their financial status looking at that, and, you can go to the SET homepage and download quarterly financial statements and any announcements that they've made to the SET.

I beleive their last quarterly analyst presentation explained the timetable for building projects.

[Irene]

Richard,

First, I have been buying condos off-plan for years and have not been conned once. But I have my ways of doing due diligence. I look into the background of developers to determine whether they are honest and care for their good name to do business in future, the names like Siri, Qhouse, Land and House that should be Ok. But for the first time developer, I tend to stay clear from them. Second, while making instalment payments, I would visit the sites to see the progress. Finally, I would keep in touch with the salegirlds and find out on their progress of sales.

Irene searches and previous good record of a developer is a good start,but of course things change without the public knowing the inside going on of a company , As i am used to having deposit money left in a Trust account i am not too keen to buy off the plan ,even though there is a saving , again a personel risk choice , But you raised a point of saying keeping in touch with salesgirls which i found in past dealings they are a knotch above used cars salespeople ,

What interest me is where you visit the site to see the progress , a very good idea , but what happens after 2 payments and you see the site slowing down? with say 20% down , do you have any legal leg to stand on in regards to stoping payments or asking for refund on the basis that the work does not look like going to progress or not to the standard or specifications as per contract .

That is the kind of situation which would worry me say on a thb 30m plus property

ray08,

Under the present statute, the law favours a developer overwhelmingly. Unless an escrow has come into law, buyers have not much legal to stand on. Once you know the developer is in difficulty, at least you can delay your payment to reduce the losses. So far, all my purchases on the off=plan has given me a heft gain. The latest, I paid for my deposits and instalments of one project for Baht3M and now I am able to make a profit of between Baht 2m TO

[Irene]

Richard,

First, I have been buying condos off-plan for years and have not been conned once. But I have my ways of doing due diligence. I look into the background of developers to determine whether they are honest and care for their good name to do business in future, the names like Siri, Qhouse, Land and House that should be Ok. But for the first time developer, I tend to stay clear from them. Second, while making instalment payments, I would visit the sites to see the progress. Finally, I would keep in touch with the salegirlds and find out on their progress of sales.

Irene searches and previous good record of a developer is a good start,but of course things change without the public knowing the inside going on of a company , As i am used to having deposit money left in a Trust account i am not too keen to buy off the plan ,even though there is a saving , again a personel risk choice , But you raised a point of saying keeping in touch with salesgirls which i found in past dealings they are a knotch above used cars salespeople ,

What interest me is where you visit the site to see the progress , a very good idea , but what happens after 2 payments and you see the site slowing down? with say 20% down , do you have any legal leg to stand on in regards to stoping payments or asking for refund on the basis that the work does not look like going to progress or not to the standard or specifications as per contract .

That is the kind of situation which would worry me say on a thb 30m plus property

ray08,

Under the present statute, the law favours a developer overwhelmingly. Unless an escrow has come into law, buyers have not much legal legs to stand on. Once you know the developer is in difficulty, at least you can delay your payment to reduce the losses. So far, all my purchases on the off=plan has given me a hefty gain. The latest, I paid for my deposits and instalments of one project for Baht3M (out of a total value of Baht8M) and now I am able to make a profit of between Baht 2m to Baht5M. But I elected not to sell. However, my approach is not recommended for the faint hearts who believe all developers are conmen.

[quiksilva]

Raimon land as far as I understand aren't some two bit developer and are one of the best around.

If you are need to understand a little bit more about them, look at their investor relations material and their quarterly analyst meetings, which are available on their website. You'll get a good idea of their financial status looking at that, and, you can go to the SET homepage and download quarterly financial statements and any announcements that they've made to the SET.

I beleive their last quarterly analyst presentation explained the timetable for building projects.

Exactly so. They are very reputable, one of the top 5 developers in Thailand IMHO.

Please ignore dragon's post. Talking about no title deeds and Taksin's supposed involvement in Raimon Land, I have never heard such nonsense!!

[ditch0]

Blimey,

I wasn't expecting any of that! But thanks to those of you who have give me some re-assurance.

My friend and his wife are spending 23 Million Baht on there's. Mine is 9.5 Million. They are struggling to scrape together their 10% deposit (£38/39K)

Yes the developer is Raimon Land and he is one of the most reputable developers in Thailand - they just won the 2007 property development awards in December. I believe i am doing the right thing and from a speculative point of view, the units have already gone up 10% in 1 year. so saying that I am giving away 40% for nothing is nonsense.

Tower A is almost completely sold out and I managed to get the very last small 2 bed unit at the front. The last 5 floors - 55 to 60 are mainly duplexes, large 3 beds and of course the penthouses.

Thanks once again for those of you that chose to give me kind but sensible advice. I am doing my research and trying to cover all the angles. That is why I asked for advice about getting my legal position secure. That is all. I am 44 and will inevitably apply for a retirement visa when I'm 50. Yes, i will more than likely buy a condo that is already finished when i move over in a year or so.

Yes i will visit the site on every time I pass through Bangkok but according to the latest reports, construction is bang on target.

It is 3 or 4 years away and it is nice to have something to look forward to.

I will come back to this thread later, when i have a bit more time. I only checked today because I wondered why There had been no replies. I did tick the email notification button, I know I did.

Anyhow, I want to be 100% happy before I send over the deposit in 10 days. Legal, legal please!!

Thanks for your input, even the cynics and critics who think they know it all

Cheers for now,

Richard

[ray08]

Blimey,

I wasn't expecting any of that! But thanks to those of you who have give me some re-assurance.

My friend and his wife are spending 23 Million Baht on there's. Mine is 9.5 Million. They are struggling to scrape together their 10% deposit (£38/39K)

Yes the developer is Raimon Land and he is one of the most reputable developers in Thailand - they just won the 2007 property development awards in December. I believe i am doing the right thing and from a speculative point of view, the units have already gone up 10% in 1 year. so saying that I am giving away 40% for nothing is nonsense.

Tower A is almost completely sold out and I managed to get the very last small 2 bed unit at the front. The last 5 floors - 55 to 60 are mainly duplexes, large 3 beds and of course the penthouses.

Thanks once again for those of you that chose to give me kind but sensible advice. I am doing my research and trying to cover all the angles. That is why I asked for advice about getting my legal position secure. That is all. I am 44 and will inevitably apply for a retirement visa when I'm 50. Yes, i will more than likely buy a condo that is already finished when i move over in a year or so.

Yes i will visit the site on every time I pass through Bangkok but according to the latest reports, construction is bang on target.

It is 3 or 4 years away and it is nice to have something to look forward to.

I will come back to this thread later, when i have a bit more time. I only checked today because I wondered why There had been no replies. I did tick the email notification button, I know I did.

Anyhow, I want to be 100% happy before I send over the deposit in 10 days. Legal, legal please!!

Thanks for your input, even the cynics and critics who think they know it all

Cheers for now,

Richard

My exact wording was " giving away 40% unsecured and interest free for 3-4 years" is quite correct when you purchase off the contract you are pretty much unsecured and no interest is given on your money ,the developer is using your money interest free for duration of project , also not ever project goes to completion eg Regent Grande Assett and much more ,Invest your own money but only a fool would not look at the downside as well as the upside.

[trajan]

My exact wording was " giving away 40% unsecured and interest free for 3-4 years" is quite correct when you purchase off the contract you are pretty much unsecured and no interest is given on your money ,the developer is using your money interest free for duration of project , also not ever project goes to completion eg Regent Grande Assett and much more ,Invest your own money but only a fool would not look at the downside as well as the upside.

that's true, but with higher risks comes the potential for higher returns....Ive done this more than a few times already off-plan (and a few times on projects already finished and enjoyed planning, re-fitting and furnishing those out)...always with sincere intentions to keep as secondary or tertiary places to enjoy in old (or older age) but offers too good to resist inevitably come up...so sold (net returns MUCH better than bank or bond or property fund returns or those stupid local provident funds returns or even Microsoft or Johnson & Johnson etc. returns and appreciation (but not HP or ExxonMobil lately))

I personally think quality projects like The River and Sukhothai Residence etc. from reputable developers minimize (but do not eradicate) risk......... but god, you only live once.....its more risky crossing the street in Bangkok! do your reasonable due diligence (personally or thru lawyers) , and of course dont put more than two or three eggs in one basket, but live alittle if you enjoy living here and plan to do so for a longer term...

Edited February 12, 2008 by trajan

[trajan]

also not ever project goes to completion eg Regent Grande Assett and much more ,Invest your own money but only a fool would not look at the downside as well as the upside.

even minimal due diligence would have steered you away from Grand Asset....I looked at Regent just before going away on Xmas 2004 holidays...had my pick of units.....red flags everywhere on Grand Asset (in addition to complete absence of information from selling agents (Harrison back then)) ...in stark contrast to some other projects.....then went with two other projects off-plan....already completed (but moot because already sold well in advance of completion)...

Edited February 12, 2008 by trajan

[ongcuunon]

Yes the developer is Raimon Land and he is one of the most reputable developers in Thailand - they just won the 2007 property development awards in December. I believe i am doing the right thing and from a speculative point of view, the units have already gone up 10% in 1 year. so saying that I am giving away 40% for nothing is nonsense.

If history is a fairly reliable predictor of the future, then your investment in The River should be in good hands with Raimon. I live near two of Raimon's projects, and both were very well done and are well maintained.

Note also that "Taksin" and "Thaksin" are not the same name, nor are they pronounced the same (in spite of the spellings being similar). Therefore, without confirmation it is a great leap for one to assume that former PM Thaksin has any interest, whatsoever, in Taksin.

Few things in life are without some degree of risk. Who would have thought an investment in Baring Brothers would turn out so badly? Anyway, thus far it seems you may have made a good move with The River.

[ditch0]

Good evening,

To all you good folks in Thailand.

I have to sign this Contract and then return it via fax or email and then transfer 10% of the Sale price in to the developers bank account as a deposit.

As I have said in my previous posts, this sort of stuff is always done through the buyer and seller's soliciters in every country that I know of.

Should I be doing this by myself?

Essentially, I will be sending quite a big chunk of hard earned cash (around £20K ) to another country based on this:

_{^{TAKSIN PROPERTIES COMPANY LIMITED}}

<sub><sup>AGREEMENT TO RESERVE THE RIGHT TO THE AGREEMENT TO PURCHASE AND SELL

CONDOMINIUM UNIT OF

"THE RIVER PROJECT"

Reservation No:___ ___ Quota Foreign Date 8 Month_February_Year_2008__

By this letter, I/We, the undersigned, (hereinafter the "Reserving Party")

( x ) Mr./Ms./ Mrs. _John DOE____Age_ 00_, Nationality_British Citizen_________

holding ID/passport no:_000000000, issued at_United Kingdom on _06/Sep/00___,expiring on

_06/Sep/10_ residing at No_0, Home Gardens, TOWN, COUNTY, United Kingdom_____

Postcode AAA AAA

Tel. _Home +44 0000000, Cell +44 000000000_,Email _My email.com_

( ) Registered Partnership/ Limited Partnership/ Private Company Limited

Incorporated as of __________Registration number Having office located at

no Road__________Moo_______Tambol/Kweng_________Amphur/Khet__________

Province___________ Country Postcode__________Telephone No ,

represented by ,the authorized person acting on behalf of the juristic

person, residing at no Trok/soi________Road_________Moo

Tambol/Khweng__________Amphur/Khet___________Province__________Postcode

Country Tel Email

The Reserving Party wishes to enter into the agreement to reserve the right to enter into the

Agreement to Purchase and Sell Condominium Unit of "The River Project", which is located on

Charoenakorn Road, Tambol Klongtonsai, Amphur Klongsan, Bangkok with Taksin

Properties Co., Ltd. (hereinafter called the "Project Owner" ) in accordance with the

following terms:

1 The Reserving Party agrees to reserve the right to enter into the Agreement to Purchase

and Sell the Condominium Unit No:_A-0000__, Floor__00_, Tower A , Type BB___

Bedrooms 2 , approximate area of _000___ Square Meters at the total unit price of

Baht____0,000,00000__(Baht The agreed amount in words only__)

2 On the date of executing this Agreement, the Reserving Party has paid the reservation fee

in the amount of Baht 100,000 (Baht One hundred thousand only) to the Project

Owner by:

Cash / Money transfer into Taksin Properties Co., Ltd. account

Credit card ______________No

Personal cheque No._________(Bank Branch

Dated__/___/___)

Cashier cheque No__________(Bank Branch

Dated__/___/___)

• In the case of making payment by cheque, this reservation agreement shall be

effective after the Project Owner has collected payment thereunder.

3 The Reserving Party agrees to enter into the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the

Condominium Unit as stipulated in clause 1 hereof on (date)_28_/_FEB__/_2008_and

the Reserving Party agrees that the reservation fee paid hereunder shall be applied as

the initial deposit in the amount of Baht 100,000 (One Hundred Thousand Baht) and

agrees to pay additional sum of Baht 00000000 (Baht The amount only) to the Project Owner on the

execution of the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit, and will

make 36 (Thirty Six) equal installment payments to the Project

Owner within the dates fixed by the Project Owner as specified in the Agreement to

Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit.

The Reserving Party understands that the reservation herein is the reservation of right to enter

into the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit as stipulated above with the

Project Owner. Therefore, in the event that the Reserving Party, for whatever reasons, cancels

this reservation or fails to enter into the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit

on the above specified date, it will be deemed that the Reserving Party waives the right to enter

into the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit as stipulated in clause 1 and the

Reserving Party agrees that the Project Owner shall forfeit all reservation deposit. In addition,

the Project Owner has the right to sell such Condominium Unit to other purchasers immediately

without any prior notice to the Reserving Party.

In witness whereof, I/We have affixed my/our signature hereunto in presence of the witness.

Signed __________________________Reserving Party

.

Signed__________________________Witness

( )

Signed__________________________

For and on behalf of

Taksin Properties Co., Ltd.

Signed __________________________Witness

( )</sup></sub>

Would somebody who is familliar and more qualified than I, have a read through this and tell me if it is 1st:correct, 2nd: Legally binding and finally no tricks or hidden meanings.

I'm sure you get what I'm driving at.

Many, many thanks if somebody can advise me on this before I send it back and transfer the funds.

Cheers

Richard

[ThaiPauly]

I brought a condo off plan 2 years ago.

It was supposed to be completed within a year. I had a clause put in the contract which entitled me to a full refund of deposits paid if the Condo ran 3 months late. I

Lucky I did.

I got a refund albeit by four post dated cheques, but they all cleared. Others were not so lucky and are still waiting for the condo to be completed.

No progress has been made with the second tower of this condo in a year now.

My worry on your behalf would be that if Thailand's economy should nosedive for some reasoon before 2011 even the big developers may not be imune.

If I decide to buy again I would definatley buy into a completed project even if it cost me a bit more.

Hope this helps

[trajan]

I brought a condo off plan 2 years ago.

It was supposed to be completed within a year. I had a clause put in the contract which entitled me to a full refund of deposits paid if the Condo ran 3 months late. I

Lucky I did.

I got a refund albeit by four post dated cheques, but they all cleared. Others were not so lucky and are still waiting for the condo to be completed.

No progress has been made with the second tower of this condo in a year now.

My worry on your behalf would be that if Thailand's economy should nosedive for some reasoon before 2011 even the big developers may not be imune.

If I decide to buy again I would definatley buy into a completed project even if it cost me a bit more.

Hope this helps

sure, there is a risk with any developer big or small, experienced or unexperienced, BUT IMHO there is a BIG risk difference between buying:

an off-plan condo from an outfit like Saranya Property 2002 launching "Vista Gardens" in a sub-soi off of Sukhumvit Soi 71 (which I believe you bought); and

an off-plan very top-end condo from a developer like Raimon Land launching The River next to the The Pen.....

lets be fair before painting ALL projects with the same brush.....

[btw, Im not in the industry, just a consumer].....

Edited February 14, 2008 by trajan

[JeffCA]

Good evening,

To all you good folks in Thailand.

I have to sign this Contract and then return it via fax or email and then transfer 10% of the Sale price in to the developers bank account as a deposit.

As I have said in my previous posts, this sort of stuff is always done through the buyer and seller's soliciters in every country that I know of.

Should I be doing this by myself?

Essentially, I will be sending quite a big chunk of hard earned cash (around £20K ) to another country based on this:

_{^{TAKSIN PROPERTIES COMPANY LIMITED}}

<sub><sup>AGREEMENT TO RESERVE THE RIGHT TO THE AGREEMENT TO PURCHASE AND SELL

CONDOMINIUM UNIT OF

"THE RIVER PROJECT"

Reservation No:___ ___ Quota Foreign Date 8 Month_February_Year_2008__

By this letter, I/We, the undersigned, (hereinafter the "Reserving Party")

( x ) Mr./Ms./ Mrs. _John DOE____Age_ 00_, Nationality_British Citizen_________

holding ID/passport no:_000000000, issued at_United Kingdom on _06/Sep/00___,expiring on

_06/Sep/10_ residing at No_0, Home Gardens, TOWN, COUNTY, United Kingdom_____

Postcode AAA AAA

Tel. _Home +44 0000000, Cell +44 000000000_,Email _My email.com_

( ) Registered Partnership/ Limited Partnership/ Private Company Limited

Incorporated as of __________Registration number Having office located at

no Road__________Moo_______Tambol/Kweng_________Amphur/Khet__________

Province___________ Country Postcode__________Telephone No ,

represented by ,the authorized person acting on behalf of the juristic

person, residing at no Trok/soi________Road_________Moo

Tambol/Khweng__________Amphur/Khet___________Province__________Postcode

Country Tel Email

The Reserving Party wishes to enter into the agreement to reserve the right to enter into the

Agreement to Purchase and Sell Condominium Unit of "The River Project", which is located on

Charoenakorn Road, Tambol Klongtonsai, Amphur Klongsan, Bangkok with Taksin

Properties Co., Ltd. (hereinafter called the "Project Owner" ) in accordance with the

following terms:

1 The Reserving Party agrees to reserve the right to enter into the Agreement to Purchase

and Sell the Condominium Unit No:_A-0000__, Floor__00_, Tower A , Type BB___

Bedrooms 2 , approximate area of _000___ Square Meters at the total unit price of

Baht____0,000,00000__(Baht The agreed amount in words only__)

2 On the date of executing this Agreement, the Reserving Party has paid the reservation fee

in the amount of Baht 100,000 (Baht One hundred thousand only) to the Project

Owner by:

Cash / Money transfer into Taksin Properties Co., Ltd. account

Credit card ______________No

Personal cheque No._________(Bank Branch

Dated__/___/___)

Cashier cheque No__________(Bank Branch

Dated__/___/___)

• In the case of making payment by cheque, this reservation agreement shall be

effective after the Project Owner has collected payment thereunder.

3 The Reserving Party agrees to enter into the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the

Condominium Unit as stipulated in clause 1 hereof on (date)_28_/_FEB__/_2008_and

the Reserving Party agrees that the reservation fee paid hereunder shall be applied as

the initial deposit in the amount of Baht 100,000 (One Hundred Thousand Baht) and

agrees to pay additional sum of Baht 00000000 (Baht The amount only) to the Project Owner on the

execution of the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit, and will

make 36 (Thirty Six) equal installment payments to the Project

Owner within the dates fixed by the Project Owner as specified in the Agreement to

Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit.

The Reserving Party understands that the reservation herein is the reservation of right to enter

into the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit as stipulated above with the

Project Owner. Therefore, in the event that the Reserving Party, for whatever reasons, cancels

this reservation or fails to enter into the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit

on the above specified date, it will be deemed that the Reserving Party waives the right to enter

into the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit as stipulated in clause 1 and the

Reserving Party agrees that the Project Owner shall forfeit all reservation deposit. In addition,

the Project Owner has the right to sell such Condominium Unit to other purchasers immediately

without any prior notice to the Reserving Party.

In witness whereof, I/We have affixed my/our signature hereunto in presence of the witness.

Signed __________________________Reserving Party

.

Signed__________________________Witness

( )

Signed__________________________

For and on behalf of

Taksin Properties Co., Ltd.

Signed __________________________Witness

( )</sup></sub>

Would somebody who is familliar and more qualified than I, have a read through this and tell me if it is 1st:correct, 2nd: Legally binding and finally no tricks or hidden meanings.

I'm sure you get what I'm driving at.

Many, many thanks if somebody can advise me on this before I send it back and transfer the funds.

Cheers

Richard

Richard:

I would recommend you consider a reputable law firm. I hired one for my condo purchase and do not regret it for a moment. They had a package price for handling EVERYTHING for me from the deposit through the transfer and it was very low priced by my standards. I'm not sure if we are allowed to quote a company name here, but I used one that advertises on this very site. They are full English speaking, have offices around the world, and have stayed in regular contact with the developer on my behalf. They caught some wording problems in the original contract and had the developer change it and I certainly never would have caught that on my own. I'm not rich either, and given what I was/am paying for the condo, the small fee was well worth the peace of mind. Just my opinion.

[BL4u]

Good evening,

To all you good folks in Thailand.

I have to sign this Contract and then return it via fax or email and then transfer 10% of the Sale price in to the developers bank account as a deposit.

As I have said in my previous posts, this sort of stuff is always done through the buyer and seller's soliciters in every country that I know of.

Should I be doing this by myself?

Essentially, I will be sending quite a big chunk of hard earned cash (around £20K ) to another country based on this:

_{^{TAKSIN PROPERTIES COMPANY LIMITED}}

<sub><sup>AGREEMENT TO RESERVE THE RIGHT TO THE AGREEMENT TO PURCHASE AND SELL

CONDOMINIUM UNIT OF

"THE RIVER PROJECT"

Reservation No:___ ___ Quota Foreign Date 8 Month_February_Year_2008__

By this letter, I/We, the undersigned, (hereinafter the "Reserving Party")

( x ) Mr./Ms./ Mrs. _John DOE____Age_ 00_, Nationality_British Citizen_________

holding ID/passport no:_000000000, issued at_United Kingdom on _06/Sep/00___,expiring on

_06/Sep/10_ residing at No_0, Home Gardens, TOWN, COUNTY, United Kingdom_____

Postcode AAA AAA

Tel. _Home +44 0000000, Cell +44 000000000_,Email _My email.com_

( ) Registered Partnership/ Limited Partnership/ Private Company Limited

Incorporated as of __________Registration number Having office located at

no Road__________Moo_______Tambol/Kweng_________Amphur/Khet__________

Province___________ Country Postcode__________Telephone No ,

represented by ,the authorized person acting on behalf of the juristic

person, residing at no Trok/soi________Road_________Moo

Tambol/Khweng__________Amphur/Khet___________Province__________Postcode

Country Tel Email

The Reserving Party wishes to enter into the agreement to reserve the right to enter into the

Agreement to Purchase and Sell Condominium Unit of "The River Project", which is located on

Charoenakorn Road, Tambol Klongtonsai, Amphur Klongsan, Bangkok with Taksin

Properties Co., Ltd. (hereinafter called the "Project Owner" ) in accordance with the

following terms:

1 The Reserving Party agrees to reserve the right to enter into the Agreement to Purchase

and Sell the Condominium Unit No:_A-0000__, Floor__00_, Tower A , Type BB___

Bedrooms 2 , approximate area of _000___ Square Meters at the total unit price of

Baht____0,000,00000__(Baht The agreed amount in words only__)

2 On the date of executing this Agreement, the Reserving Party has paid the reservation fee

in the amount of Baht 100,000 (Baht One hundred thousand only) to the Project

Owner by:

Cash / Money transfer into Taksin Properties Co., Ltd. account

Credit card ______________No

Personal cheque No._________(Bank Branch

Dated__/___/___)

Cashier cheque No__________(Bank Branch

Dated__/___/___)

• In the case of making payment by cheque, this reservation agreement shall be

effective after the Project Owner has collected payment thereunder.

3 The Reserving Party agrees to enter into the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the

Condominium Unit as stipulated in clause 1 hereof on (date)_28_/_FEB__/_2008_and

the Reserving Party agrees that the reservation fee paid hereunder shall be applied as

the initial deposit in the amount of Baht 100,000 (One Hundred Thousand Baht) and

agrees to pay additional sum of Baht 00000000 (Baht The amount only) to the Project Owner on the

execution of the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit, and will

make 36 (Thirty Six) equal installment payments to the Project

Owner within the dates fixed by the Project Owner as specified in the Agreement to

Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit.

The Reserving Party understands that the reservation herein is the reservation of right to enter

into the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit as stipulated above with the

Project Owner. Therefore, in the event that the Reserving Party, for whatever reasons, cancels

this reservation or fails to enter into the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit

on the above specified date, it will be deemed that the Reserving Party waives the right to enter

into the Agreement to Purchase and Sell the Condominium Unit as stipulated in clause 1 and the

Reserving Party agrees that the Project Owner shall forfeit all reservation deposit. In addition,

the Project Owner has the right to sell such Condominium Unit to other purchasers immediately

without any prior notice to the Reserving Party.

In witness whereof, I/We have affixed my/our signature hereunto in presence of the witness.

Signed __________________________Reserving Party

.

Signed__________________________Witness

( )

Signed__________________________

For and on behalf of

Taksin Properties Co., Ltd.

Signed __________________________Witness

( )</sup></sub>

Would somebody who is familliar and more qualified than I, have a read through this and tell me if it is 1st:correct, 2nd: Legally binding and finally no tricks or hidden meanings.

I'm sure you get what I'm driving at.

Many, many thanks if somebody can advise me on this before I send it back and transfer the funds.

Cheers

Richard

It is a stupid reservation agreement. It contains nothing and a reservation agreement should always be refundable! What if you do not like the sale and purchase they offer?

[ThaiPauly]

I brought a condo off plan 2 years ago.

It was supposed to be completed within a year. I had a clause put in the contract which entitled me to a full refund of deposits paid if the Condo ran 3 months late. I

Lucky I did.

I got a refund albeit by four post dated cheques, but they all cleared. Others were not so lucky and are still waiting for the condo to be completed.

No progress has been made with the second tower of this condo in a year now.

My worry on your behalf would be that if Thailand's economy should nosedive for some reasoon before 2011 even the big developers may not be imune.

If I decide to buy again I would definatley buy into a completed project even if it cost me a bit more.

Hope this helps

sure, there is a risk with any developer big or small, experienced or unexperienced, BUT IMHO there is a BIG risk difference between buying:

an off-plan condo from an outfit like Saranya Property 2002 launching "Vista Gardens" in a sub-soi off of Sukhumvit Soi 71 (which I believe you bought); and

an off-plan very top-end condo from a developer like Raimon Land launching The River next to the The Pen.....

lets be fair before painting ALL projects with the same brush.....

[btw, Im not in the industry, just a consumer].....

Hey, I am just quoting MY experience for the benefit of the OP......its up to him if he notes the post or not

[trajan]

Hey, I am just quoting MY experience for the benefit of the OP......its up to him if he notes the post or not

fair enough and respect that ...but full disclosure and accurate comparisons are fair......that's cricket right?