Can The Language Barrier Drive A Farang Out Of The Kingdom Eventually?

[mikethevigoman]

Interesting how such a huge range of threads terminate at the same point, isn't it. Do you think that's because of Thailand or because of the 'contributors' to this website?

Good luck with mixing with 'english again'. EFL Lessons are cheap in Thailand. Why don't you take a few before you go.

Well for me personally i know ill never understand thais as long as i have hole in my @ss,,its not just the language,. the culture. the thai way, etc, ive tried beleive me ive tried,.they have won, im worn down, and tired out, i come home some days so angry ,,,timescale/importance of orders here is of no relevance and as far i can see it it will be a third world for a long time yet, .ive lived in a few different countries and this is the first time i will have left anywhere out of frustration,. ,.,the only upside is i met my beautiful 7 years ago and i have a 5 year old daughter ,nothing else matters, so im off back home, i know it wont be perfect either but at least ill be understood and can hold a converstaion with like minded people, .and im looking forward to buying a decent car for sensible money and a walk on a frosty morning ! ( if you beleive that youll believe anything )

[Naam]

PeaceBlondie,

besides your intolerance of thai food your pain not being able to manage thai language surfaces from time to time but i fail to see real reasons for that. not knowing the appropriate word for "pony tail whatever" is surely not a reason to leave Thailand. a few years ago when we decided to settle here i was eager to learn more thai than the few polite sentences and numbers i knew. we hired a private teacher my wife dropped out after only a few lessons and i gave up after month (three times a week 2 hours). the old fairy tale "the more languages you speak the easier it is to learn a new one" did not apply to us. each of us speaks fluently 3 languages (we use all three on a daily basis at home just for fun and because of our english speaking servants) and we can make ourselves understood in another 3 or 4 languages. but inspite of not being able to communicate in thai we live quite a happy life.

ergo my advice is: "¿Mejico? ¡olvídese vuestra merced! ¡sea feliz en Tailandia con o sin pony tail holder!

[Heng]

...ive tried beleive me ive tried,.they have won...

Chai-yo!

[cathyy]

Maybe PB has a hearing issue; not necessarily being hard of hearing but being, in the sense it's used in music, tone-deaf or mostly so. It would make learning Thai extraordinarily difficult if you can't hear the tones. And learning to pronounce the vowels not found in English is a challenge I am still working on.

My Thai is quite limited, but I usually have good success communicating the object of my quest when I'm looking for something. Also, here in Korat I have noticed a substantial increase in the number of English-speaking or partially English-speaking Thais. That helps. Since we have no Thai partner in our family, we tend to depend on my skill in Thai, or their skill in English. I have been told I pronounce Thai quite well, and clearly. I find it hard to believe. But I can walk up to a food stall and order what I want without any confusion (depending on what I want).

[mikethevigoman]

...ive tried beleive me ive tried,.they have won...

Chai-yo!

makes 2 of us

[ignoramus]

Hi PB, this post reminds me of a previous post of yours about remaining/leaving.

I like you, as you seem exceptionally human.

I'm thinking your partner wants to remain (he's Thai yes....).

I understand Mexico is not such a nice place crime-wise, electrical-safety-wise. (Naam is clever ain't he - language-wise).

I like the mime suggestions. It worked for me, as I'm sure my tonal talent was zilch (and, like you, I would have zero intention of competing with the Thais were I to decamp from here).

Your posts are fun anyway. I don't mind a little harmless drama either.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

PB I kind of know how you feel as communicating by jumping up and down and pointing is tough. Perhaps Cathyy hit on the problem with the hearing problem. My hearing is seriously impared and Thai is a impossible language for me to understand, although English is getting harder to understand also so I don't even try learning Thai.

One advantage in Mexico is it is no big deal to read the signs where in Thai they are meaningless.

Suggest you go to Mexico for a while and see it you prefer it over Thailand. Might suggest you look into Panama while you are at it. Much friendlier people than Mexico and the government makes it easy to live there and to own property there same rights as a citizen when it comes to property ownership.

You are one of the more interesting people on TV so if you do go you can still keep in touch through TV.

[Ping]

Well the pony tail issue is simple enough - keep a spare and show it to a shop assistant when you need to replenish your supply. As to the general issue, these things crop up from time to time and can always be solved. I had a devil of a time finding a place to get a car tyre repaired when I had a flat - the attempts at explanation of directions and incorrect advice were frustrating in the extreme ('No, only for motorcy'). I finally found a place after about two hours of driving around in ever-increasing circles. (I later discovered that there was a place less than five minutes from my house that none of the locals I had asked had known about.)

When you think about it, these minor frustrations are always a bit annoying, but they are only minor. Don't let them get to you. Practice patience.

[Samuian]

PS you could substitute Thailand with Spain , Portugal , Greece , Germany , Switzerland , Itlay etc ad nauseam.

Did you mean if one cant speak spanish, portugese, greek, german romani or italien?

Well, think there are some very beautiful places all over the planet - and well communication comes with time or a language course!

to be able to communicate is the quintessence of well being... my guess.

[Jingthing]

Well it is not a super big problem in Pattaya, although of course there are many frustrations, even here. However, for the truly language resistant (most Americans) Thailand is actually better than alot of places because Thai people aren't surprised that you don't speak Thai. Rather, they are surprised that you do speak Thai. Also, alot of important stuff is translated, for example banking websites. When I checked out Argentina, I realized quickly the locals would have no patience or tolerance whatsoever for an expat who doesn't speak Spanish.

[ThaiWanderer68]

Maybe a talking dictionary?

I bought one over a year ago ....

Most guys in Thailand acquire a long haired thai dictionary...

Edited February 21, 2008 by ThaiWanderer68

[t.s]

i say leave, you are obvoiusly not even willing to make an effort.

"cow pack guy"? give me a break.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thanks for all the comments. My two examples were simply examples of many typical situations I find myself in, frustrated at what would be no problem at all in countries inhabited by a billion native speakers of English or Spanish. The topic title is "Can the language barrier drive a farang out of the country?"

I have found myself stuck in a taxicab for over 2.5 hours, unable to say anything to the driver, whereas in Latin America, we would have jabbered the entire time about families, food, politics, etc. Bus and plane trips, likewise, unless I was accompanied by a bilingual companion. I feel too dependent on my Thai partner for things that I was doing myself the first month I lived in Mexico. My teaching career here began with many hundreds of hours of sitting in a staff room with 13 teachers of English, having no conversations at all (and I'm a polite, helpful, friendly gentleman at a school). Because my students never got above intermediate level, we never had the more meaningful teacher-student talks that my daughter has routinely with her students in Texas. Frustrating. As BeenThereDoneThat pointed out, it doesn't help that the alphabet is all Greek. Had the same problem in Moscow last year, and their alphabet is almost Greek!

We went to a funeral wake yesterday, and the only ones who spoke more than 25 words to me were an Englishman and a Welshman. I don't want to live in a farang vacuum or bubble.

Thanks for the advice; I'll consider it all.

[seobangkok]

You sound lazy to me - Anyone can learn a new language, it's just a matter of persistence.

[PeaceBlondie]

You sound lazy to me - Anyone can learn a new language, it's just a matter of persistence.

Nah, if we are only sharing personal impressions without knowing one another, you sound ignorant to me regarding tone deafness, the difficulty with which most older people acquire new languages totally foreign, the incredible pace that I maintained throughout my life to the present day, etc. Not everyone can learn Thai, even if they have above average intelligence and exposure to the culture.

[HS Mauberley]

Unless you have a fairly profound learning difficulty, I just don't think there's much excuse for not acquiring the very basic language required to get you through the situations which you described. It's really not that difficult and it doesn't involve years spent learning to distinguish between tones. If you can't be arsed to put in the effort, fair enough but don't then start complaining about not being able to speak the language.

[qwertz]

The first and most useful words to learn in any language are "What is this called?".

Try it - you get a free language lesson every time.

If you can't remember it, write it down phonetically.

It works for me.

[helitool]

If you are an english speaker most foreign languages are not really foreign because english is old german with a heavy infusion of Norman French. As a result most western languages are easily learned by and english speaker. However Thai is definitely a very foreign language which because of the variable tones and vowel lengths has about 20 different meanings for each word sound depending on the combinations. Although I can think and speak Thai as fast as english, even after 25 years of using it I can't do tones. If the Thai I'm speaking to is well educated they will usually have no problem, but to others I can hold up one finger and say "nung" and they still don't understand!

I refuse to even visit a country without first learning the local language otherwise for me it is like watching a foreign movie with no subtitles, just does not work.

[submaniac]

I would add two comments. First, the difficulty of communication may be due to the fact that you are out in the sticks where the knowledge of English is not as imperative. In Bangkok or tourist areas like Pattaya or Phuket, there are more people who do speak English that you can communicate with. In Pattaya and Phuket it is a necessary skill because of all the tourists. In Bangkok, English speaking ability is seen as a trait of the upper classes as it shows shows that someone's parents could afford to give them a good education. And upper class Thais actually relish the opportunity to speak English as they do not get much of an opportunity to practice it.

The other thing that I would add is that my cousins have these cell phone PDA's with a Thai english dictionary installed on them. Not as bulky as a talking dictionary, and since it's their phone they carry at all the time anyways. You can type a word in English and translate it into Thai, in the Thai alphabet. Might be easier for you next time because you could show the Thai salesperson the word on the PDA and they can figure it out.

[percy2]

Thanks for all the comments. My two examples were simply examples of many typical situations I find myself in, frustrated at what would be no problem at all in countries inhabited by a billion native speakers of English or Spanish. The topic title is "Can the language barrier drive a farang out of the country?"

I have found myself stuck in a taxicab for over 2.5 hours, unable to say anything to the driver, whereas in Latin America, we would have jabbered the entire time about families, food, politics, etc. Bus and plane trips, likewise, unless I was accompanied by a bilingual companion. I feel too dependent on my Thai partner for things that I was doing myself the first month I lived in Mexico. My teaching career here began with many hundreds of hours of sitting in a staff room with 13 teachers of English, having no conversations at all (and I'm a polite, helpful, friendly gentleman at a school). Because my students never got above intermediate level, we never had the more meaningful teacher-student talks that my daughter has routinely with her students in Texas. Frustrating. As BeenThereDoneThat pointed out, it doesn't help that the alphabet is all Greek. Had the same problem in Moscow last year, and their alphabet is almost Greek!

We went to a funeral wake yesterday, and the only ones who spoke more than 25 words to me were an Englishman and a Welshman. I don't want to live in a farang vacuum or bubble.

Thanks for the advice; I'll consider it all.

I'm sure you have the ability to learn the alphabet and therefore the ability to read and write in thai.

After you have done that come back and tell us you still cannot communicate.

I don't accept this tone deaf rubbish. Have you ever been to Karaoke here, 90% of the population is tone def.

You just aren't used to it and ignore it.

Just another excuse.

When I'm too old to learn anything I hope they have a cure for alzheimer's.

Cheers

PB I hope I don't sound nasty , I'm just pointing out probably unpalatable truths. And you did ask for it

[Pepe']

I must admit I'm really confused...

[MengWan]

I'm sure you have the ability to learn the alphabet and therefore the ability to read and write in thai.

After you have done that come back and tell us you still cannot communicate.

I don't accept this tone deaf rubbish. Have you ever been to Karaoke here, 90% of the population is tone def.

You just aren't used to it and ignore it.

Just another excuse.

When I'm too old to learn anything I hope they have a cure for alzheimer's.

Cheers

PB I hope I don't sound nasty , I'm just pointing out probably unpalatable truths. And you did ask for it

I feel the same way as the person you "sound nasty" to !

So, according to you, I must lie too, my feelings must be lies and I am a fake ?

In my youth, I used to help many foreigners, english-speaking, then polish-speaking to find their way where I lived.

Foreigners tend to speak languages with accents (except perfect people ...) and so the natives need a certain effort if they want to understand foreigners.

I too often felt that a lot of thaïs definitely did not want to understand what I was saying, what I was looking for, where I wanted to go ...

When one cares, he/she even tries to correct simple mistakes, no ? And that helps (I learned my mother's language like that, not at school or from books !).

[isabelle17]

I think when falangs decide to go and live in Thailand, they KNOW that there will be language barrier. Even if they speak pretty good Thai, they will still have issues. I say if you are not willing to deal with that...then why be there in the first place?

I think its crazy that westerners complain so much about having to learn other languages, when most other people in places like Asia HAVE to learn English or some other language if they want a decent paying job. They dont complain about it. When I stayed in Thailand before I was also one of the falangs who complained about the Thai language. But now that I look back on it, I did not try hard enough. I am now learning Chinese here in the states and it is difficult, but I am really happy I am learning it. So now, the next time I go back to Thailand, I plan to take a Thai language class.

I think that it is very hard to learn a different language on your own. But if you have someone who can help you or if you are able to take some time out of your day to take a class and study Thai, it will slowly improve. And dont beat yourself up if you get stuck or are going "too slow." That will just make things harder. I know not many people like this phrase..but its so true..practice makes perfect! (er...almost perfect...)

[percy2]

I must admit I'm really confused...

If your referring to my post , I must admit its not the most articulate.

Let me try again.

I think anybody who has trouble with the tones would have a much easier time if they learnt to read Thai.

I don't read Thai and have learnt all of my spoken Thai by listening to people and then mimicking the sound that they make and hopefully understanding what it meant.

I appreciate that not everybody can do this.

I also find that now I'm speaking less Thai (my situation has changed) it becomes a more of a struggle to put understandable sentences together even though my vocabulary remains. Its a use it or lose it thing. I still listen to a lot of Thai and understand more now than before. The more you practice listening and understanding the better you get.

If I learn to read Thai I will be able to see how the words are formed and pronounced, I will also have a much better understanding of the construct of sentences.

Going a bit further with the tone deafness thing, anybody who can appreciate the difference between an English "B" and "P" is not tone deaf , but we are used to hearing that difference. Its because we are not used to hearing the different tones and their usage that makes it difficult.

It may seem difficult to learn to speak Thai, but I refuse to believe that its impossible. Anybody who says they cannot I challenge you to go away and complete the courses available at a school similar to this one http://www.utl-school.com/english/home.php and then come back and still say you cannot communicate here.

Hope that its clearer and not at all nasty , that was never my intention.

Cheers

[Pepe']

I must admit I'm really confused...

If your referring to my post , I must admit its not the most articulate.

Let me try again.

I think anybody who has trouble with the tones would have a much easier time if they learnt to read Thai.

I don't read Thai and have learnt all of my spoken Thai by listening to people and then mimicking the sound that they make and hopefully understanding what it meant.

I appreciate that not everybody can do this.

I also find that now I'm speaking less Thai (my situation has changed) it becomes a more of a struggle to put understandable sentences together even though my vocabulary remains. Its a use it or lose it thing. I still listen to a lot of Thai and understand more now than before. The more you practice listening and understanding the better you get.

If I learn to read Thai I will be able to see how the words are formed and pronounced, I will also have a much better understanding of the construct of sentences.

Going a bit further with the tone deafness thing, anybody who can appreciate the difference between an English "B" and "P" is not tone deaf , but we are used to hearing that difference. Its because we are not used to hearing the different tones and their usage that makes it difficult.

It may seem difficult to learn to speak Thai, but I refuse to believe that its impossible. Anybody who says they cannot I challenge you to go away and complete the courses available at a school similar to this one http://www.utl-school.com/english/home.php and then come back and still say you cannot communicate here.

Hope that its clearer and not at all nasty , that was never my intention.

Cheers

--------------------------

Not in relation to your post at all.

I'm just confused, period...

[Tagaa]

PB...I understand your pain. My wife (Thai) & I took our truck to the dealer for service. I wanted the tires rotated, a phrase she was not familiar with. I got out the owners manual & found the section about rotating tires. She understood. She told service rep to rotate the tires, he shakes head OK.

We get the bill, no charge to rotate tires. I ask if they did it, service rep indicates yes & draws a picture indicating RF to LR, etc. Incorrect method for a radial tire, but I think better than nothing. Later in the day I take a good look at the tires & they have not been touched...fronts still on the front, rears still on the rear. <deleted> is up with that. I was furious. & tthe wife does not understand why.

Something like this happens 3 or 4 times a week, but it is not enough to make me leave. I think God is STILL trying to teach me patience.

The best solution for the ponytail holder "type" problem is to find a pic on the internet & print it out for the shop owner. Like the old saying goes "a picture is worth a thousand words". I live in Isaan so I know from where I speak.

Also, very difficult to find someone here that can give Thai lessons, so I do my best to muddle through.

Edited February 22, 2008 by Tagaa

[Pepe']

PB...I understand your pain. My wife (Thai) & I took our truck to the dealer for service. I wanted the tires rotated, a phrase she was not familiar with. I got out the owners manual & found the section about rotating tires. She understood. She told service rep to rotate the tires, he shakes head OK.

We get the bill, no charge to rotate tires. I ask if they did it, service rep indicates yes & draws a picture indicating RF to LR, etc. Incorrect method for a radial tire, but I think better than nothing. Later in the day I take a good look at the tires & they have not been touched...fronts still on the front, rears still on the rear. <deleted> is up with that. I was furious. & tthe wife does not understand why.

Something like this happens 3 or 4 times a week, but it is not enough to make me leave. I think God is STILL trying to teach me patience.

The best solution for the ponytail holder "type" problem is to find a pic on the internet & print it out for the shop owner. Like the old saying goes "a picture is worth a thousand words". I live in Isaan so I know from where I speak.

Also, very difficult to find someone here that can give Thai lessons, so I do my best to muddle through.

----------------------

So then you can relate to my confusion...

[haybilly]

Sorry PB, but you seem to start threads about this quite frequently, so it's hard to care much about your "problem" at this point. Only mentioning this as I'm sure others have noticed it and are feeling the same way.

Since you seem like a nice enough bloke though, I don't want to leave without making any suggestions. Seems to me your choices are

1. Leave Thailand

2. Learn basic Thai

3. Learn to mime

4. Do nothing and accept the fact that you won't be able to communicate with those who don't speak English or understand your pigeon Thai.

Cheers!

I get the impression that 'he' is not a bloke--maybe I'm wrong--in fact, I now know I'm wrong--sorry PB--ignore my confusion, I hadn't read all your postings when I commented--

By the way PB--I'm sure you must mean 'cow PAT guy'--that is unless you are eating rice, veg and chicken?

Edited February 22, 2008 by haybilly

[Pepe']

Sorry PB, but you seem to start threads about this quite frequently, so it's hard to care much about your "problem" at this point. Only mentioning this as I'm sure others have noticed it and are feeling the same way.

Since you seem like a nice enough bloke though, I don't want to leave without making any suggestions. Seems to me your choices are

1. Leave Thailand

2. Learn basic Thai

3. Learn to mime

4. Do nothing and accept the fact that you won't be able to communicate with those who don't speak English or understand your pigeon Thai.

Cheers!

I get the impression that 'he' is not a bloke--maybe I'm wrong.

By the way PB--I'm sure you must mean 'cow PAT guy'--that is unless you are eating rice, veg and chicken?

-----------------------

GOD I HATE MIMES!

You had to bring up mimes

[skippybangkok]

To learn to read thai at a basic level (which is not being able to read the tones) , would take ummmmmmmm

1 week.

(maybe 1 hour per day). It really is that simple. If thats too much, then i guess its best call it quits.

From that point onwards, can grow your vocab slowly. I was constantly reading bi-lingual signs when i was traveling, and bit by bit you pick all kinds of usefull stuff ( i.e. toilet / chemist / DVD shop / tire repair, "available for rent", thai price v.s. falang price at tourist attractions etc - the list goes on )

Edited February 22, 2008 by skippybangkok