Pattaya Better Wih The Bars Closed

[APMann]

Is it just me who thinks the past couple of nights have been refreshingly quiet and relaxed, with the bars closed, no tarts hollering at you, no blaring music, no staggeringly drunk Western European idiots falling all over the place, and a generally more enjoyable ("upmarket", if I was a developer) feel to the town.

It proves that if there was the political will, backed up by the police, that this place could change, in my opinion for the better, in less than a week. I am astonished to see how effectively the beer ban has been enforced. And pleasantly surprised by how quiet and peaceful the town has been as a result.

Excuse me while I run for my flak jacket.....

Edited February 24, 2008 by APMann

[moo9]

If you liked it, you are certainly free to look for another destination.

I monitored myself last night, and I got the impression that many tourist were wandering around the city, wondering what happened and why most of the bars were closed. Certainly most of them did not enjoy being banned from having a beer.

[Jingthing]

Try low season.

[jastheace]

If you liked it, you are certainly free to look for another destination.

I monitored myself last night, and I got the impression that many tourist were wandering around the city, wondering what happened and why most of the bars were closed. Certainly most of them did not enjoy being banned from having a beer.

agreed,hard enough for people to earn a crust here,

i certainly would be pi55ed off if i came 6000 miles and paid a lot of dosh for my 2 week annual beano and couldn't even have a beer.

i do agree that some places are just to over the top with regards to music and a5540les selling moody gear,i just use my feet,i very rarely venture into pattaya nowadays,much more sedate near me in soi khao talo/khao noi.

[APMann]

If you liked it, you are certainly free to look for another destination.

I monitored myself last night, and I got the impression that many tourist were wandering around the city, wondering what happened and why most of the bars were closed. Certainly most of them did not enjoy being banned from having a beer.

I was wandering around as well, looking for a bar with beer and a TV for football, and I was depply unhappy about it, but but that has nothing to do with the seamier side of the city. If THOSE bars were closed, not hostelries in general, was my point.

Also, about 80% of last night's traffic was Russian on Walking Street, and the way the city is going, the girlie bars will die anyway as the Russkies don't really go in them much and they are happily increasingly making the city a younger, more attractive, refreshingly family-oriented destination instead of the scum of European jails being unleashed on us.

[patsfangr]

Is it just me who thinks the past couple of nights have been refreshingly quiet and relaxed, with the bars closed, no tarts hollering at you, no blaring music, no staggeringly drunk Western European idiots falling all over the place, and a generally more enjoyable ("upmarket", if I was a developer) feel to the town.

It proves that if there was the political will, backed up by the police, that this place could change, in my opinion for the better, in less than a week. I am astonished to see how effectively the beer ban has been enforced. And pleasantly surprised by how quiet and peaceful the town has been as a result.

Excuse me while I run for my flak jacket.....

Here, AP, use my spare! Of course the downtown area is "refreshingly quiet and relaxed" without drunks all over the streets. What area, in any city, in any country of the world is not? The difference here is that the police do not, and will not, enforce laws would keep such trash off the streets. The reasons why are obvious. It's not likely to change.

Let me add that I definitely have nothing against alcohol. I drink more than is healthy myself. But I stop well short of being rowdy, and falling all over the place; and it is that type of behavior that should not be permitted in the public streets.

Unfortunately, the reputation of Pattaya is the it is a "wide open" town, where that type of individual can come and raise h*ll. As you said, that reputation could be stiffled very quickly, if the police chose to do so.

[lazeeboy]

without the bars pataya would die

[APMann]

without the bars pataya would die

No. It would change, and be better for it. And maybe if people invested in proper businesses instead of go go bars and beer bars, maybe the Thais themselves would benefit by going into newly-available careers and proper jobs instead of selling themselves into - what shall we call it on this "ooh you can't say that" forum - "alternative services". And who could argue with that - unless you think sexual exploitation is the only reason to live or come on holiday here?

[patsfangr]

without the bars pataya would die

That would have been true 30 or so years ago. It's not any more. There are plenty of decent businesses, staffed by hard-working Thais; and a very large, and growing population of decent, family-oriented expats from many countries here now. All of those people would be very happy to see Pattaya "tamed" into a respectable resort town, with plenty of safe, comfortable entertainment venues, and a police force that ensures that it remains that way. There are resort towns all over the world, including some in Thailand, where that is done. It could also be done here.

[Prakanong]

If you liked it, you are certainly free to look for another destination.

I monitored myself last night, and I got the impression that many tourist were wandering around the city, wondering what happened and why most of the bars were closed. Certainly most of them did not enjoy being banned from having a beer.

I was wandering around as well, looking for a bar with beer and a TV for football, and I was depply unhappy about it, but but that has nothing to do with the seamier side of the city. If THOSE bars were closed, not hostelries in general, was my point.

Also, about 80% of last night's traffic was Russian on Walking Street, and the way the city is going, the girlie bars will die anyway as the Russkies don't really go in them much and they are happily increasingly making the city a younger, more attractive, refreshingly family-oriented destination instead of the scum of European jails being unleashed on us.

Dear chap - are you not putting the horse before the cart?

Pattaya was built up to be what is is due to those type of bar's - first the yankee's during Vietnam then the Europeans to take up the slack after yankee's were sent home packing by Uncle Ho and now its truly international?

The build up of those bar's attracted almost everyone to Pattaya - I do not mean to partake in those bars for 100% of the people but following the money and the size of the market.

Just out of interest how did you end up there - if I did not like those type of bar's being where i wanted to live I would not have moved there.

Now the argument is should Pattaya change?

Could it get the same level of business without the sex tourists and sex pats?

I do not have a clue about that one and do not particularly care but it might be an interesting experiment for a tourism student

[harleyclarkey]

without the bars pataya would die

No. It would change, and be better for it. And maybe if people invested in proper businesses instead of go go bars and beer bars, maybe the Thais themselves would benefit by going into newly-available careers and proper jobs instead of selling themselves into - what shall we call it on this "ooh you can't say that" forum - "alternative services". And who could argue with that - unless you think sexual exploitation is the only reason to live or come on holiday here?

You do not like the noise, the beer bars, the go go bars, the tourists, the "alternative services" (available in almost every city in the world) and you deplre the morality of coming for "sexual exploitation". Just who do you think are being exploited? The local girls, and boys, or the unfortunate foreigner who in many cases has his life ruelly stripped away from him both financially and emotionally.

You like it....... "with the bars closed, no tarts hollering at you, no blaring music, no staggeringly drunk Western European idiots falling all over the place, and a generally more enjoyable ("upmarket", if I was a developer) feel to the town."

Why are you there??

[Jingthing]

Pattaya is changing. It is more of a mix now. And it is better. Its big enough for everybody and everything. No need to wipe out any part of it.

[APMann]

If you liked it, you are certainly free to look for another destination.

I monitored myself last night, and I got the impression that many tourist were wandering around the city, wondering what happened and why most of the bars were closed. Certainly most of them did not enjoy being banned from having a beer.

I was wandering around as well, looking for a bar with beer and a TV for football, and I was depply unhappy about it, but but that has nothing to do with the seamier side of the city. If THOSE bars were closed, not hostelries in general, was my point.

Also, about 80% of last night's traffic was Russian on Walking Street, and the way the city is going, the girlie bars will die anyway as the Russkies don't really go in them much and they are happily increasingly making the city a younger, more attractive, refreshingly family-oriented destination instead of the scum of European jails being unleashed on us.

Dear chap - are you not putting the horse before the cart?

Pattaya was built up to be what is is due to those type of bar's - first the yankee's during Vietnam then the Europeans to take up the slack after yankee's were sent home packing by Uncle Ho and now its truly international?

The build up of those bar's attracted almost everyone to Pattaya - I do not mean to partake in those bars for 100% of the people but following the money and the size of the market.

Just out of interest how did you end up there - if I did not like those type of bar's being where i wanted to live I would not have moved there.

Now the argument is should Pattaya change?

Could it get the same level of business without the sex tourists and sex pats?

I do not have a clue about that one and do not particularly care but it might be an interesting experiment for a tourism student

Dear chap - aren't you forgetting that in front of every cart and horse there lies a long road. Of course everything starts somewhere but that doesn't mean things, people, places don't evolve over time and in response to brutal economic, social, political, moral, pragmatic facts of life.

I think Pattaya would have a better balanced economic base without the sleaze, for sure, but even the sleaze can be discretely catered to, just not let it be the predominant industry and the yardstick by which the city is notoriously judged around the world.

And to answer your question - no. The ready availability of sex had nothing to do with me relocating here. I can get that anywhere, paid for or not, as we all can.

[Thailandvisitor]

without the bars pataya would die

It would certainly be different but would it die?

If you want to be a gloom monger you can see plenty of indicators that things are going downhill fast for many of the bars already.

Travelling along 2nd road late at night I rarely see bars with more than a few farangs. Christmas Eve was one of the few nights in the last twelve months when nearly all the bars were doing good business.

Its a mystery how some of them stay open at all. Many bar units have been built and have never had a tenant, see Drinking Street, Soi 3 and many others. There are always plenty of desperate bar girls but few drinkers.

I guess that the key money and fit out costs of many bars have been provided by absent farangs boyfriends.

If the US$ continues to weaken and the european economies go into recession then the flow of money from falang to Teelac to bar ownership may fall rapidly. Then the number of bars will reduce fast.

I am sure that the enterprising people of Pattaya will still find ways of parting visitors from their cash but maybe not with the present style of bars.

There were attempted crackdowns on opening hours, dress codes and behaviour by the previous Taksin government. It might start up again. There is already talk of a new War on Drugs.

Pattaya seems to be entering a period of change brought about by more expensive accomodation, condos and new target markets for visitors like India, Russia and China.

Adapt or die may be the new slogan for bar owners.

Edited February 24, 2008 by Thailandvisitor

[APMann]

without the bars pataya would die

No. It would change, and be better for it. And maybe if people invested in proper businesses instead of go go bars and beer bars, maybe the Thais themselves would benefit by going into newly-available careers and proper jobs instead of selling themselves into - what shall we call it on this "ooh you can't say that" forum - "alternative services". And who could argue with that - unless you think sexual exploitation is the only reason to live or come on holiday here?

You do not like the noise, the beer bars, the go go bars, the tourists, the "alternative services" (available in almost every city in the world) and you deplre the morality of coming for "sexual exploitation". Just who do you think are being exploited? The local girls, and boys, or the unfortunate foreigner who in many cases has his life ruelly stripped away from him both financially and emotionally.

You like it....... "with the bars closed, no tarts hollering at you, no blaring music, no staggeringly drunk Western European idiots falling all over the place, and a generally more enjoyable ("upmarket", if I was a developer) feel to the town."

Why are you there??

In relation to summarising my position, I've heard of a broad brush but yours is a roller.

But yes, the overwhelmingly exploited group are the boys and girls who, because their government cannot afford to pay for a decent education, are herded into Pattaya's bars, and that is a shocking waste of a country's resources.

If we - sorry, you - advocate sexually brutalising a population of a country, how can you criticise them for striking back. They know no better, but if they were better-educated and had better careers open to them, they would know better.

Why am I here? To live a very happy life, than you for asking.

[Prakanong]

"Dear chap - aren't you forgetting that in front of every cart and horse there lies a long road. Of course everything starts somewhere but that doesn't mean things, people, places don't evolve over time and in response to brutal economic, social, political, moral, pragmatic facts of life.

I think Pattaya would have a better balanced economic base without the sleaze, for sure, but even the sleaze can be discretely catered to, just not let it be the predominant industry and the yardstick by which the city is notoriously judged around the world."

I would be interested in the better balanced economic base without the sex industry - as a resort town?

OK - let it have a large integrated resort(s) with casino's etc and U-Tapao flying in the punters direct for all over Asia and catering to families too - that would work.

They had better get a move on though - Singapore has two opening soon and Macau is bigger than Vegas in cash betting terms. Genting has worked very well too in Muslim Malaysia

Thing is though Thailand has two competetive advantages over those three - cheap Golf and Sex

First mover advantage might not be such a big hurdle after all. You would not have all those Euro's and other farangs on cheap sex and booze holidays though. The Asians would be lapping it up as they do - discreetly

[APMann]

"Dear chap - aren't you forgetting that in front of every cart and horse there lies a long road. Of course everything starts somewhere but that doesn't mean things, people, places don't evolve over time and in response to brutal economic, social, political, moral, pragmatic facts of life.

I think Pattaya would have a better balanced economic base without the sleaze, for sure, but even the sleaze can be discretely catered to, just not let it be the predominant industry and the yardstick by which the city is notoriously judged around the world."

I would be interested in the better balanced economic base without the sex industry - as a resort town?

OK - let it have a large integrated resort(s) with casino's etc and U-Tapao flying in the punters direct for all over Asia and catering to families too - that would work.

They had better get a move on though - Singapore has two opening soon and Macau is bigger than Vegas in cash betting terms. Genting has worked very well too in Muslim Malaysia

Thing is though Thailand has two competetive advantages over those three - cheap Golf and Sex

First mover advantage might not be such a big hurdle after all. You would not have all those Euro's and other farangs on cheap sex and booze holidays though. The Asians would be lapping it up as they do - discreetly

I would be interested in the better balanced economic base without the sex industry - as a resort town?

Sure. Why not. A bigger and better Hua Hin. Or a Bangkok next to the sea. It is entirely possible. Ask yourself this - how many national or multinational offices are here in pattaya? Virtually none. If I had money I would be building office developments not sh*tty get rich quick condos, and getting respectable national and multinational companies into this city. And why not build a university here (except for fear of predatory pervs).

I don't think Pattaya's future boom needs a casino, just largely responsible government and largely uncorrupt police. And this goes back to my first point - that the strict enforcement of the no-drink regulation this weekend suggests to me that something positive is happening in the region, which hasn't happened before.

There is NO reason why Pattaya could not be the new Singapore - well, if they declared UDI!

[Thailandvisitor]

[i don't think Pattaya's future boom needs a casino, just largely responsible government and largely uncorrupt police. And this goes back to my first point - that the strict enforcement of the no-drink regulation this weekend suggests to me that something positive is happening in the region, which hasn't happened before.

Here is something for the conspiracy theorists. The Policeman driving along Beach Road telling the bars to close on Friday evening had a Military Policeman with him.!!

What does that mean?

Nothing or something?

What next?

[APMann]

[i don't think Pattaya's future boom needs a casino, just largely responsible government and largely uncorrupt police. And this goes back to my first point - that the strict enforcement of the no-drink regulation this weekend suggests to me that something positive is happening in the region, which hasn't happened before.

Here is something for the conspiracy theorists. The Policeman driving along Beach Road telling the bars to close on Friday evening had a Military Policeman with him.!!

What does that mean?

Nothing or something?

What next?

That's very interesting, because I also noticed three coppers with Navy police on their bikes on friday and hadn't made the connection until now, although I did mention it to my Thai friends, as I hadn't seen it since the coup, and thought it was strange.

I think you're right - they were there to kick the bent coppers up the bumcrack, and that itself is interesting. A greater seriousness to enforce the law.

[Prakanong]

"and getting respectable national and multinational companies into this city."

Unless you mean branch offices and Tesco's and Carrefour outlets its not going to happen.

If you mean regional HG of TNC's (MNC's) then its certainly never in a million years going to happen - Bangkok can not attract them.

Just down the road though you have a Detroit of the east - the Thai automobile industry is about the only one where it appears on any world economic tables.

[sweetchariot]

[i don't think Pattaya's future boom needs a casino, just largely responsible government and largely uncorrupt police. And this goes back to my first point - that the strict enforcement of the no-drink regulation this weekend suggests to me that something positive is happening in the region, which hasn't happened before.

Here is something for the conspiracy theorists. The Policeman driving along Beach Road telling the bars to close on Friday evening had a Military Policeman with him.!!

What does that mean?

Nothing or something?

What next?

That's very interesting, because I also noticed three coppers with Navy police on their bikes on friday and hadn't made the connection until now, although I did mention it to my Thai friends, as I hadn't seen it since the coup, and thought it was strange.

I think you're right - they were there to kick the bent coppers up the bumcrack, and that itself is interesting. A greater seriousness to enforce the law.

They tried it last year just for a few months in the high season, and felt it was a good idea as they are nearly doubling the amount of coppers out on patrol. I think it is something that will happen at this time of year for years to come. I don't think there is any alterior motive, the army/ navy are just making up the numbers during peak season.

[sharecropper]

"Dear chap - aren't you forgetting that in front of every cart and horse there lies a long road. Of course everything starts somewhere but that doesn't mean things, people, places don't evolve over time and in response to brutal economic, social, political, moral, pragmatic facts of life.

I think Pattaya would have a better balanced economic base without the sleaze, for sure, but even the sleaze can be discretely catered to, just not let it be the predominant industry and the yardstick by which the city is notoriously judged around the world."

I would be interested in the better balanced economic base without the sex industry - as a resort town?

OK - let it have a large integrated resort(s) with casino's etc and U-Tapao flying in the punters direct for all over Asia and catering to families too - that would work.

They had better get a move on though - Singapore has two opening soon and Macau is bigger than Vegas in cash betting terms. Genting has worked very well too in Muslim Malaysia

Thing is though Thailand has two competetive advantages over those three - cheap Golf and Sex

First mover advantage might not be such a big hurdle after all. You would not have all those Euro's and other farangs on cheap sex and booze holidays though. The Asians would be lapping it up as they do - discreetly

I would be interested in the better balanced economic base without the sex industry - as a resort town?

Sure. Why not. A bigger and better Hua Hin. Or a Bangkok next to the sea. It is entirely possible. Ask yourself this - how many national or multinational offices are here in pattaya? Virtually none. If I had money I would be building office developments not sh*tty get rich quick condos, and getting respectable national and multinational companies into this city. And why not build a university here (except for fear of predatory pervs).

I don't think Pattaya's future boom needs a casino, just largely responsible government and largely uncorrupt police. And this goes back to my first point - that the strict enforcement of the no-drink regulation this weekend suggests to me that something positive is happening in the region, which hasn't happened before.

There is NO reason why Pattaya could not be the new Singapore - well, if they declared UDI!

I largely agree with you on the future development of the city, though I think local politics will stymie any dramatic change, as they are all getting fat on the status quo. That said, Mike (or "Surat Mike') and the goregous bird who has just thrown her hat into the ring, and who I met in person the other day, are worth watching as people who could shake the town up, as opposed to shaking the piggy bank down.

PS - Pattaya as the new Singapore? I am going to drug test you and see what happens.

[Prakanong]

"PS - Pattaya as the new Singapore? I am going to drug test you and see what happens."

Plenty of Thai girls working the four floors and Geylang at the cheap end but not as many as Pattaya just yet - they will have to dress up a bit and mind their manners at the Casino's as they will be in demand there - wonder how Singapore will control the business there as it does in other red light districts?

Probably more fake Thai monks down here though begging than in Pattaya though

[Thailandvisitor]

[ and the gorgeous bird who has just thrown her hat into the ring, and who I met in person the other day, are worth watching as people who could shake the town up, as opposed to shaking the piggy bank down.

If Khun Alisa Phantusak wants to dish out free Tiffanys tickets I will definitely vote for her, (in spirit if not in the flesh).

Sadly, she has as much chance of being elected as ....................(Up to you...try Bart Simpson, George Bush, The Pope etc).

[sharecropper]

"PS - Pattaya as the new Singapore? I am going to drug test you and see what happens."

Plenty of Thai girls working the four floors and Geylang at the cheap end but not as many as Pattaya just yet - they will have to dress up a bit and mind their manners at the Casino's as they will be in demand there - wonder how Singapore will control the business there as it does in other red light districts?

Probably more fake Thai monks down here though begging than in Pattaya though

I can't speak for the ability of a whorking Thai bird to refrain from hitting a punter with a bottle in a drug-induced fit of pique, whatever the social occasion or venue, but I can say that the last time I was in Singapore I was surprisec by all those fake monks begging on Orchard Road, as was my Thai wi'.

Edited February 24, 2008 by sharecropper

[Prakanong]

"PS - Pattaya as the new Singapore? I am going to drug test you and see what happens."

Plenty of Thai girls working the four floors and Geylang at the cheap end but not as many as Pattaya just yet - they will have to dress up a bit and mind their manners at the Casino's as they will be in demand there - wonder how Singapore will control the business there as it does in other red light districts?

Probably more fake Thai monks down here though begging than in Pattaya though

I can't speak for the ability of a whorking Thai bird to refrain from hitting a punter with a bottle in a drug-induced fit of pique, whatever the social occasion or venue, but I can say that the last time I was in Singapore I was surprisec by all those fake monks begging on Orchard Road, as was my Thai wi'.

I see them most day's - my office is not far from Golden Mile Complex (Thai town) where they go to remit their "Alms" back to Thailand - and sometimes a quick beer and a fag

Then they are often in the Bugis area and often get the bus to where they stay outside the <deleted> Lu Shou Centre

Every so often there is a clampdown and its in the papers but they return quickly - I guess they do not come through immigration in their brand new robes

[wasabi]

Exploitation. People don’t get excited about corporations exploiting their fiefs, sweatshops working their coolies to the bone but prefix exploitation with the word sex and people have a coronary and take the sudden self righteous moral high road. The ironic thing is those being ‘sexually exploited are earning more than their coolie counterparts. A lot of people work jobs they'd rather not, many people aren't paid what they think is fair. Sex is just part of the equation. I could care less if Pattaya has a red light district or not but it sure as hel_l isn't going to stop people from being taken advantage of because that's human nature.

[harleyclarkey]

without the bars pataya would die

No. It would change, and be better for it. And maybe if people invested in proper businesses instead of go go bars and beer bars, maybe the Thais themselves would benefit by going into newly-available careers and proper jobs instead of selling themselves into - what shall we call it on this "ooh you can't say that" forum - "alternative services". And who could argue with that - unless you think sexual exploitation is the only reason to live or come on holiday here?

You do not like the noise, the beer bars, the go go bars, the tourists, the "alternative services" (available in almost every city in the world) and you deplre the morality of coming for "sexual exploitation". Just who do you think are being exploited? The local girls, and boys, or the unfortunate foreigner who in many cases has his life ruelly stripped away from him both financially and emotionally.

You like it....... "with the bars closed, no tarts hollering at you, no blaring music, no staggeringly drunk Western European idiots falling all over the place, and a generally more enjoyable ("upmarket", if I was a developer) feel to the town."

Why are you there??

In relation to summarising my position, I've heard of a broad brush but yours is a roller.

But yes, the overwhelmingly exploited group are the boys and girls who, because their government cannot afford to pay for a decent education, are herded into Pattaya's bars, and that is a shocking waste of a country's resources.

If we - sorry, you - advocate sexually brutalising a population of a country, how can you criticise them for striking back. They know no better, but if they were better-educated and had better careers open to them, they would know better.

Why am I here? To live a very happy life, than you for asking.

You choose to make your position very clear. The rerason I ask is that you seem to have chosen a place to live that clearly does not please you. Very odd indeed.

As to sexual exploitation and your absurd charge that I ...."advocate sexually brutalising a populatiuon of a country" ?..are you serious, or you for real??? What a stupid ill thought out remark. Where exactly in my reply did I advocate this?

[naka]

Right then dear ... Lets put on the kettle for a nice cup of tea and a bikkie, and then we'll have sex, shall we.

Naka.

[APMann]

without the bars pataya would die

No. It would change, and be better for it. And maybe if people invested in proper businesses instead of go go bars and beer bars, maybe the Thais themselves would benefit by going into newly-available careers and proper jobs instead of selling themselves into - what shall we call it on this "ooh you can't say that" forum - "alternative services". And who could argue with that - unless you think sexual exploitation is the only reason to live or come on holiday here?

You do not like the noise, the beer bars, the go go bars, the tourists, the "alternative services" (available in almost every city in the world) and you deplre the morality of coming for "sexual exploitation". Just who do you think are being exploited? The local girls, and boys, or the unfortunate foreigner who in many cases has his life ruelly stripped away from him both financially and emotionally.

You like it....... "with the bars closed, no tarts hollering at you, no blaring music, no staggeringly drunk Western European idiots falling all over the place, and a generally more enjoyable ("upmarket", if I was a developer) feel to the town."

Why are you there??

In relation to summarising my position, I've heard of a broad brush but yours is a roller.

But yes, the overwhelmingly exploited group are the boys and girls who, because their government cannot afford to pay for a decent education, are herded into Pattaya's bars, and that is a shocking waste of a country's resources.

If we - sorry, you - advocate sexually brutalising a population of a country, how can you criticise them for striking back. They know no better, but if they were better-educated and had better careers open to them, they would know better.

Why am I here? To live a very happy life, than you for asking.

You choose to make your position very clear. The rerason I ask is that you seem to have chosen a place to live that clearly does not please you. Very odd indeed.

As to sexual exploitation and your absurd charge that I ...."advocate sexually brutalising a populatiuon of a country" ?..are you serious, or you for real??? What a stupid ill thought out remark. Where exactly in my reply did I advocate this?

Let me deal with your thoroughly discourteous remarks by referring back to your own presumably enlightened and well-thought out question posed in your earlier post:

Just who do you think are being exploited? The local girls, and boys, or the unfortunate foreigner who in many cases has his life ruelly stripped away from him both financially and emotionally.

The question is phrased by you so that I can agree that only one of these two groups is being exploited, and if I presumably agree with you that it is the latter, then the former aren't. You know by my posts that I think it is the former group.

If you instead think it is the poor foreigner being exploited, then you are, on the terms of your own either/or question, agreeing that the boys and girls are not being exploited, and I stongly disagree. Had you used "and" it would have been different, but you chose to use "or", and you seem like a clever bloke, so there must have been intent.

I think the status quo (and advocating it) brutalises a whole slice of Thai life, and there is a price to pay for that. Sadly we see it every week in the press and on TV.