Pattaya Better Wih The Bars Closed

[Ulysses G.]

Anyone who objects to Pattaya's nightlife but chooses to live here is a fool.

[britmaveric]

Visible prostitution? People in bars - hardly visible or annoyance I suspect. I could see if the whole place was like Beach Rd, but far from it.

[mikethevigoman]

Anyone who lives in Pattaya and gets all uptight about "sexual exploitation" can't be very intelligent. Why come to live in the world's biggest red light district if you feel that way? Why come to live in a place with one of (if not the) highest concentration of bars in the world if you find drunken tourists so distressing? Anywhere else in Thailand would be a more suitable location. If you really can't find somewhere else to live in Thailand that more closely matches your tastes then you reveal just how clueless you are.

These whingers remind me of born again christians, they have done there whoring etc, probably married one, arent allowed out and want to spoil everyone elses fun now they are having none, .this is pattaya and looking at most of these bgs here the men will need a few drinks to find them attractive, and that in itself is reason enought to keep the booze flowin !

[APMann]

This is excellent. What a great way to highlight the fact that Pattaya's present rather singular attractions bring in the absolute low-end dross of the world.

I am sure there are many people posting on here who are in the same boat as me - I have a Thai wife who is a professional (hey pervs, that's used in the career sense not the Pattaya sense), who went to University in Bangkok and who abhors Pattaya and its nightlife and who hates living here partly because of the the vile foreign dregs she sees on the streets, and for the shame it brings on Thailand when we are abroad.

Some posters, presumably because they can only get themselves laid through the BG world, and because their view of Pattaya and Thais in general is so poor, ironically probably BECAUSE Pattaya is the way it is, seem incapable of believing there is a Thai middle class, and that one can meet women who are intelligent and focussed on a career in Thailand.

Maybe they couldn't get that at home (obviously too intimidating or unattainable) so that's why they like Pattaya. It reinforces their own shabby views on the country and the people. But that's depressing, right?

That’s why it must change.

[patsfangr]

There really is a compromise available here, guys. There IS a significant population of male expats here who do NOT live here for the nightlife. (Ulysses, you're a blind fool for not acknowledging that obvious fact). The "red light" district, as Brit pointed out, does not encompass the entire city. There are shopping areas, both food and dry goods, located in areas well outside that area, and more going up constantly. It's reasonably easy for ordinary residents to shop for whatever they need without encountering the dregs of exat society that tend to flock to the "red light" district. So, with the exception of some "cross-over" areas, the two "worlds", and their differently "motivated" inhabitants, can remain apart. I don't see any problem with that.

There are three things with which I have a problem. The first is the A$$HOLES, both Thai and farang, who bring violence into the picture. The second is those who bring the "nightlife" into the "residential" areas. It's sad, IMO, to see Khao Talo, for example, growing closer and closer to becoming another 2nd Road. And with that atmosphere, as most of you probably know, come the gangs of Thai thugs stealing, assaulting, and selling drugs. I'd like to see that world contained on the west side of Sukhumvit, leaving the east side to the more, shall we say, "conventional" population.

The third element, which I mentioned previously, is the failure of this city to make significant improvements in the infrastructure, to include law and traffic enforcement. And, again, I'm talking about the "residential" areas. I couldn't care less about any of those elements in the "red light" district. Go there, and you get whatever you're willing to put up with. Good for you. But people who live in homes, not bars, expect reasonalby well-maintained streets; consistent power, water and communications services; and effective law and traffic enforcement in the area of their homes.

I think everybody should be able to live with that. I think most of the guys commenting in this thread, on both sides of the aisle wrt "reasons" for living in Pattaya can support that. Nearly everyone here has, IMO, expressed a valid point of view. The exception is those of you who refuse to acknowledge that people DO move here, and remain here, for reasons other than beer bars and sex. Wake up, people. Just because YOU live exclusively in that part of Pattaya, does not mean that a more conventional life doesn't exist here. It does. And a large and growning number of people live here without every entering into your world. The vast majority of the area east of Sukhumvit is no more than lightly dotted with bars or massage shops (the west end of Khoa Talo being a notable exception now). Travel the length of Siam Country Club Road, all the way to Lake Mabprachan, and you'll see dozens of relatively expensive housing developments, and many large single homes. I will guarantee you that the most of the inhabitants of those homes lives their lives without beer bars and prostitutes. That doesn't make them prudes, or "born again Christians". It makes them ordinary people who derive their entertainment and sexual satisfaction in more conventional ways.

[edwardandtubs]

This is excellent. What a great way to highlight the fact that Pattaya's present rather singular attractions bring in the absolute low-end dross of the world.

I am sure there are many people posting on here who are in the same boat as me - I have a Thai wife who is a professional (hey pervs, that's used in the career sense not the Pattaya sense), who went to University in Bangkok and who abhors Pattaya and its nightlife and who hates living here partly because of the the vile foreign dregs she sees on the streets, and for the shame it brings on Thailand when we are abroad.

Some posters, presumably because they can only get themselves laid through the BG world, and because their view of Pattaya and Thais in general is so poor, ironically probably BECAUSE Pattaya is the way it is, seem incapable of believing there is a Thai middle class, and that one can meet women who are intelligent and focussed on a career in Thailand.

Maybe they couldn't get that at home (obviously too intimidating or unattainable) so that's why they like Pattaya. It reinforces their own shabby views on the country and the people. But that's depressing, right?

That's why it must change.

So why don't you just go and live somewhere else? Of course you can marry a nice middle class Thai woman but Pattaya is the least suitable location in Thailand to settle down with her. You must lead a sad life, all holed up in self-righteous indignation, surrounded by shame and filth. Take Pattaya for what it is or leave.

Edited March 2, 2008 by edwardandtubs

[Jingthing]

People who want to rid Pattaya of and punters are kind of like people who want to purge gays from San Francisco, Jews from New York, blacks from Atlanta, Arabs from Paris, Pakistanis from London, etc. etc. It ain't gonna happen and sane people don't want it to happen.

That is because and punters add to the unique flavor of the place. As far as Thailand's so called reputation, sorry you could wipe Pattaya off the map tomorrow, and Thailand would still have the same international rep as a place with a lot of . Deal with it.

Edited March 2, 2008 by Pattaya_Fox
Inappropriate words removed

[APMann]

This is excellent. What a great way to highlight the fact that Pattaya's present rather singular attractions bring in the absolute low-end dross of the world.

I am sure there are many people posting on here who are in the same boat as me - I have a Thai wife who is a professional (hey pervs, that's used in the career sense not the Pattaya sense), who went to University in Bangkok and who abhors Pattaya and its nightlife and who hates living here partly because of the the vile foreign dregs she sees on the streets, and for the shame it brings on Thailand when we are abroad.

Some posters, presumably because they can only get themselves laid through the BG world, and because their view of Pattaya and Thais in general is so poor, ironically probably BECAUSE Pattaya is the way it is, seem incapable of believing there is a Thai middle class, and that one can meet women who are intelligent and focussed on a career in Thailand.

Maybe they couldn't get that at home (obviously too intimidating or unattainable) so that's why they like Pattaya. It reinforces their own shabby views on the country and the people. But that's depressing, right?

That's why it must change.

So why don't you just go and live somewhere else? Of course you can marry a nice middle class Thai woman but Pattaya is the least suitable location in Thailand to settle down with her. You must lead a sad life, all holed up in self-righteous indignation, surrounded by shame and filth. Take Pattaya for what it is or leave.

..Or do something more constructive and beneficial for Thailand and CHANGE IT? Or would that somehow be too altruistic or likely to ruin your fun.

Also, for the umpteenth time, for those who cannot read posts properly - one premise of this discussion is to not eradicate the bars, just reduce and relocate, and diversify Pattaya's economic base for the best interests of Thais in general, not just have the city cater to sex tourists.

[beginner]

I am sure there are many people posting on here who are in the same boat as me - I have a Thai wife who is a professional (hey pervs, that's used in the career sense not the Pattaya sense), who went to University in Bangkok and who abhors Pattaya and its nightlife and who hates living here partly because of the the vile foreign dregs she sees on the streets, and for the shame it brings on Thailand when we are abroad.

That's why it must change.

APMann, you can not be serious.

Are you saying that despite having a wife who abhors Pattaya and hates living here, you nevertheless continue to live here and subject her to Jomtien and Pattaya in all its glory.

Why doesn't your respect and love for your wife make you move to somewhere more suitable? Just about anywhere but here.

Something doesn't add up. What is it that really makes you live here?

On the general issue and not your own particular circumstances of which I know nothing. Some people claim that cheap housing is the reason. Where is that cheap housing? Houses on the dark side that are very nearly unsaleable on the second hand market are hardly cheap. Cheap to buy maybe but total ownership costs may turn out to anything but cheap! They will be cheap to the Thais who eventually gain them for a half or less of what the farang owners originally paid and especially cheap to the bgs (my girl is different she went to Uni etc) who will get and have already got many of them completely free.

As has been noted above, the dark side now has enough residents to support its own red light area which is expanding fast.

Will Pattaya change in the way you want? Nothing is permanent. Will it change soon....?

[APMann]

People who want to rid Pattaya of and punters are kind of like people who want to purge gays from San Francisco, Jews from New York, blacks from Atlanta, Arabs from Paris, Pakistanis from London, etc. etc. It ain't gonna happen and sane people don't want it to happen.

That is because and punters add to the unique flavor of the place. As far as Thailand's so called reputation, sorry you could wipe Pattaya off the map tomorrow, and Thailand would still have the same international rep as a place with a lot of . Deal with it.

I have a serious problem with this post so you might want to edit it. To compare someone who wishes to change the economic nature of a city by reducing the illegal sex industry's footprint, to anti-semites and racists is unacceptable.

[Jingthing]

People who want to rid Pattaya of and punters are kind of like people who want to purge gays from San Francisco, Jews from New York, blacks from Atlanta, Arabs from Paris, Pakistanis from London, etc. etc. It ain't gonna happen and sane people don't want it to happen.

That is because and punters add to the unique flavor of the place. As far as Thailand's so called reputation, sorry you could wipe Pattaya off the map tomorrow, and Thailand would still have the same international rep as a place with a lot of . Deal with it.

I have a serious problem with this post so you might want to edit it. To compare someone who wishes to change the economic nature of a city by reducing the illegal sex industry's footprint, to anti-semites and racists is unacceptable.

Interesting that you read my post that way. That is your problem, not mine.

Edited March 2, 2008 by Pattaya_Fox
Inappropriate words removed from quote

[APMann]

I am sure there are many people posting on here who are in the same boat as me - I have a Thai wife who is a professional (hey pervs, that's used in the career sense not the Pattaya sense), who went to University in Bangkok and who abhors Pattaya and its nightlife and who hates living here partly because of the the vile foreign dregs she sees on the streets, and for the shame it brings on Thailand when we are abroad.

That's why it must change.

APMann, you can not be serious.

Are you saying that despite having a wife who abhors Pattaya and hates living here, you nevertheless continue to live here and subject her to Jomtien and Pattaya in all its glory.

Why doesn't your respect and love for your wife make you move to somewhere more suitable? Just about anywhere but here.

Something doesn't add up. What is it that really makes you live here?

On the general issue and not your own particular circumstances of which I know nothing. Some people claim that cheap housing is the reason. Where is that cheap housing? Houses on the dark side that are very nearly unsaleable on the second hand market are hardly cheap. Cheap to buy maybe but total ownership costs may turn out to anything but cheap! They will be cheap to the Thais who eventually gain them for a half or less of what the farang owners originally paid and especially cheap to the bgs (my girl is different she went to Uni etc) who will get and have already got many of them completely free.

As has been noted above, the dark side now has enough residents to support its own red light area which is expanding fast.

Will Pattaya change in the way you want? Nothing is permanent. Will it change soon....?

She spends half her time in Bangkok. I hate Bangkok, and can go up there when I have to because of the ease of access from Pattaya. I have a non-sex industry business here, and I enjoy my superb life in a quiet sea-front location with panoramic views. I can go deep sea fishing, play golf on world class courses, or scuba dive whenever I want. Add superb restaurants (both cheap Thai food, and 5 star ones) proximity to the airport, and a big group of friends and acquaintances (yeah, seriously), and there you have why I live here, and why the alternative to sin city could well be attractive to more upmarket, non-sex tourists around the world, looking to retire or relocate to a nice seafront location as it moves upmarket.

Anyway, the Russian market will seriously impact on the sleaze industry if it keeps growing over the next few years, as planners, developers, retailers and landlords see which way the Rouble is blowing downtown.

[APMann]

People who want to rid Pattaya of and punters are kind of like people who want to purge gays from San Francisco, Jews from New York, blacks from Atlanta, Arabs from Paris, Pakistanis from London, etc. etc. It ain't gonna happen and sane people don't want it to happen.

That is because and punters add to the unique flavor of the place. As far as Thailand's so called reputation, sorry you could wipe Pattaya off the map tomorrow, and Thailand would still have the same international rep as a place with a lot of . Deal with it.

I have a serious problem with this post so you might want to edit it. To compare someone who wishes to change the economic nature of a city by reducing the illegal sex industry's footprint, to anti-semites and racists is unacceptable.

Interesting that you read my post that way. That is your problem, not mine.

Well, let's examine that shall we:

"People (IE PRESUMABLY ME) who want to rid Pattaya of and punters are kind of like people (IE HOMOPHOBES, RACISTS AND ANTI-SEMITES) who want to purge gays from San Francisco, Jews from New York, blacks from Atlanta, Arabs from Paris, Pakistanis from London...

IS there any other way to read this?

[lazeeboy]

People who want to rid Pattaya of and punters are kind of like people who want to purge gays from San Francisco, Jews from New York, blacks from Atlanta, Arabs from Paris, Pakistanis from London, etc. etc. It ain't gonna happen and sane people don't want it to happen.

That is because and punters add to the unique flavor of the place. As far as Thailand's so called reputation, sorry you could wipe Pattaya off the map tomorrow, and Thailand would still have the same international rep as a place with a lot of . Deal with it.

I have a serious problem with this post so you might want to edit it. To compare someone who wishes to change the economic nature of a city by reducing the illegal sex industry's footprint, to anti-semites and racists is unacceptable.

Interesting that you read my post that way. That is your problem, not mine.

Well, let's examine that shall we:

"People (IE PRESUMABLY ME) who want to rid Pattaya of and punters are kind of like people (IE HOMOPHOBES, RACISTS AND ANTI-SEMITES) who want to purge gays from San Francisco, Jews from New York, blacks from Atlanta, Arabs from Paris, Pakistanis from London...

IS there any other way to read this?

no

[The Philosopher]

Is it just me who thinks the past couple of nights have been refreshingly quiet and relaxed, with the bars closed, no tarts hollering at you, no blaring music, no staggeringly drunk Western European idiots falling all over the place, and a generally more enjoyable ("upmarket", if I was a developer) feel to the town.

It proves that if there was the political will, backed up by the police, that this place could change, in my opinion for the better, in less than a week. I am astonished to see how effectively the beer ban has been enforced. And pleasantly surprised by how quiet and peaceful the town has been as a result.

Excuse me while I run for my flak jacket.....

If you don'y like it move your post is utterly pointless

[Jingthing]

IS there any other way to read this?

Yes. Different cities have different flavors which are largely determined by demographics. If you don't fancy the flavor, choose another flavor (city), rather than trying to eradicate the flavor. If in 10 years I have to learn Russian to live here, I will be moving on because there is only so much borscht I can take, but I won't be crusading for kicking out the Russians.

I didn't claim that I presented a perfect analogy. It might have been better if I compared it to San Francisco and the gay flavor of San Francisco only rather than bringing in race and nationality, because gayness is a sexual issue, as is whoring.

Edited March 2, 2008 by Jingthing

[begsaresponse]

Is it just me who thinks the past couple of nights have been refreshingly quiet and relaxed, with the bars closed, no tarts hollering at you, no blaring music, no staggeringly drunk Western European idiots falling all over the place, and a generally more enjoyable ("upmarket", if I was a developer) feel to the town.

It proves that if there was the political will, backed up by the police, that this place could change, in my opinion for the better, in less than a week. I am astonished to see how effectively the beer ban has been enforced. And pleasantly surprised by how quiet and peaceful the town has been as a result.

Excuse me while I run for my flak jacket.....

If you don'y like it move your post is utterly pointless

You may wish to consider putting on the flack jacket as you decided to dismiss the need earlier. Are you out of your depth?

[moo9]

Yesterday was another good example how much fun you can find in a ghost town with no music, no beer....

The scene was totally surrealistic.

Pattaya is Pattaya, hate it or love it. If you hate it.....go ahead.

[Ulysses G.]

This is excellent. What a great way to highlight the fact that Pattaya's present rather singular attractions bring in the absolute low-end dross of the world.

I am sure there are many people posting on here who are in the same boat as me - I have a Thai wife who is a professional

Some posters, presumably because they can only get themselves laid through the BG world, and because their view of Pattaya and Thais in general is so poor, ironically probably BECAUSE Pattaya is the way it is, seem incapable of believing there is a Thai middle class, and that one can meet women who are intelligent and focussed on a career in Thailand.

Maybe they couldn't get that at home (obviously too intimidating or unattainable) so that's why they like Pattaya. It reinforces their own shabby views on the country and the people.

Excuse me, but you sound like the very people that you are looking down on.

You had to come to Thailand to get an attractive middle class wife, so you are not any different or better than they are. I could get one in about 5 minutes if that was what I was looking for, but they used to spit at me in distain

back home.

Edited March 2, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[britmaveric]

Pattaya is Pattaya - fun city. Doesn't matter how much people want it to change, simply put it never will. Sure its growing bigger, but its the same place, but bigger. I like most thai(s) shrug their shoulders and carry on with my own business. Pattaya is organized chaos, but thats what makes it special.

[Tammi]

Pattaya is Pattaya - fun city. Doesn't matter how much people want it to change, simply put it never will. Sure its growing bigger, but its the same place, but bigger. I like most thai(s) shrug their shoulders and carry on with my own business. Pattaya is organized chaos, but thats what makes it special.

It will change, it's changing now, slowly, slowly for the better. And just maybe a new mayor will make a big difference.

[jonniebkk]

Some people claim that cheap housing is the reason. Where is that cheap housing? Houses on the dark side that are very nearly unsaleable on the second hand market are hardly cheap. Cheap to buy maybe but total ownership costs may turn out to anything but cheap!

Ahem...excuse me...there is plenty of relatively affordable housing on the eastern side of Sukhumvit. There are many mixed Thai-Farang moobaans, like many of the Rattanakorn developments that might not be everyone's cup of tea but are perfectly adequate and acceptable for many people. These are quite cheap to buy or rent. If one wants to have a house like "back home" and live in a farang ghetto sorta moobaan, there are plenty of these too at all price ranges.

As to resales, in my Rattanakorn development, when I moved in about 2 years ago, there were 3 houses for sale (about 18 houses in all) and now there are none. All were sold during that time. My moobaan has been around for around 4 years and these were all secondary sales (used homes...not new). So there definitely is a resale market for these homes. People in the mooban who bought from the developer tell me the houses sold for about B800,000-1,000,000 when new and they now sell for about 2-2.4 million. Not bad...double you money in under 5 years (while living rent free). If you were a foreigner, you would get another 30% or so if you converted your sale proceeds back to many Western currencies too.

Cost of ownership is minimal too. No taxes to speak of if you have in Thai name. About B 12-15,000 per year if held in company name and another B5-6,000 in yearly howeowner association dues.

[Humphrey Bear]

It will change, it's changing now, slowly, slowly for the better. And just maybe a new mayor will make a big difference.

I am very much open to correction on this, but is not the new mayor a son of Khamnan Po?

He (Khamnan Po) is the convicted criminal held to be the 'godfather' of the Eastern Seaboard. On bail, living in Cambodia to avoid incarceration.

He has three children in politics - all were Thai Rak Thai members, but changed to Chart Thai last year.

Edit: (clarification)

Edited March 3, 2008 by Humphrey Bear

[begsaresponse]

It will change, it's changing now, slowly, slowly for the better. And just maybe a new mayor will make a big difference.

I am very much open to correction on this, but is not the new mayor a son of Khamnan Po?

He (Khamnan Po) is the convicted criminal held to be the 'godfather' of the Eastern Seaboard. On bail, living in Cambodia to avoid incarceration.

He has three children in politics - all were Thai Rak Thai members, but changed to Chart Thai last year.

Edit: (clarification)

Sorry HB but the 'new mayor' has not been elected yet! And when the mayor is elected will it be yet another 'dry' day?

[Humphrey Bear]

Sorry HB but the 'new mayor' has not been elected yet! And when the mayor is elected will it be yet another 'dry' day?

Agreed - I was going to say mayor-designate, because all the local rags seem to think it's a done deal.

Of course it'll be a dry day. Unless it's on 19th April

[begsaresponse]

Sorry HB but the 'new mayor' has not been elected yet! And when the mayor is elected will it be yet another 'dry' day?

Agreed - I was going to say mayor-designate, because all the local rags seem to think it's a done deal.

Of course it'll be a dry day. Unless it's on 19th April

Don't know if I can cope with yet another enforced dry day .

[Mobi]

Sorry HB but the 'new mayor' has not been elected yet! And when the mayor is elected will it be yet another 'dry' day?

Agreed - I was going to say mayor-designate, because all the local rags seem to think it's a done deal.

Of course it'll be a dry day. Unless it's on 19th April

It may not be a done deal.

Apparently the guy who owns Mike's shopping mall is also standing, and is campaigning hard. Although Chonburi and Pattaya has always traditionally been Kamman Po territory, all his sidekicks were defeated by Democrats in the December elections, so the word on the ground is that Kaman Po Jr may not be a shoe in.

Mind you, I doubt whether the other guy will be any better, but he has been campaigning on the back of the disgraceful state of Pattaya's infrastructure etc, and that he will clean it up.

But I wouldn't hope too much. It'll probably be more of the same - just a different set of heads in the feeding trough.

Edited March 3, 2008 by Mobi

[Humphrey Bear]

It may not be a done deal.

Apparently the guy who owns Mike's shopping mall is also standing, and is campaigning hard. Although Chonburi and Pattaya has always traditionally been Kamman Po territory, all his sidekicks were defeated by Democrats in the December elections, so the word on the ground is that Kaman Po Jr may not be a shoe in.

Mind you, I doubt whether the other guy will be any better, but he has been campaigning on the back of the disgraceful state of Pattaya's infrastructure etc, and that he will clean it up.

But I wouldn't hope too much. It'll probably be more of the same - just a different set of heads in the feeding trough.

Good that some people have their ears to the ground (rather than snouts in the trough)

[nolifer]

Well, if you dont like the bars etc in pattaya why not stick to the "outskirts" of pattaya, not like entire chonburi province is filled with bars, nightlife and drunken farangs....

Besides, sooner or later soi 6,7,8 is gonna have to move or what do you guys think ?

Just let evolution take it´s course and pattaya will be fine.....

But imagine pattaya without bars, gogo´s, discos etc etc

Would be like....ehh...HuaHin...but more spread out since atleast 75% of the tourism would be gone.

People like me go to pattaya for the atmosphere, it´s a package like someone said - you get it all

[begsaresponse]

Well, if you dont like the bars etc in pattaya why not stick to the "outskirts" of pattaya, not like entire chonburi province is filled with bars, nightlife and drunken farangs....

Besides, sooner or later soi 6,7,8 is gonna have to move or what do you guys think ?

Just let evolution take it´s course and pattaya will be fine.....

But imagine pattaya without bars, gogo´s, discos etc etc

Would be like....ehh...HuaHin...but more spread out since atleast 75% of the tourism would be gone.

People like me go to pattaya for the atmosphere, it´s a package like someone said - you get it all

Do you think a Female Mayor will speed things up?