Non Imm O, Then O/a

[Twin]

I finished my job contract in Taiwan and I arrived in BKK on my passport only.

I want to get my over 50 retirement visa, without going back home to the US.

My plan is to go to Singapore in early October, apply for a Non Imm O, return to BKK, then apply for the Retirement Visa here.

Will this process work?

Also, once I have the Retirement Visa, what is the best way to minimize duty on my personal goods I will be ship here from a Taiwan warehouse?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Twin

[ProThaiExpat]

I see no reason why you cannot carry out your plan successfully.

Bringing in household goods has been reported as the only advantage of getting your O-A retirement visa overseas, getting it here doesn't involve moving to Thailand after receiving your retirment classification so it seems that your cannot take advantage the duty free aspect of shipping household goods post retirement classification issuance.

A check with customs might help, especially if you are planning on bringing in a large shipment.

[astral]

You can certainly get the Non Imm O in Singapore (Single entry) based on your wish to retire,

then extend it once you arrive here. Subject to 800,000 in the bank.

Check with customs about the import of household goods.

Sight of the one year extension may be sufficient.

Anyway a good agent will be able to negotiate a "price for clearance"

When I came here I was in my 40's and did not have a retirement visa.

I paid $1500 on a 20ft container load. I reckoned it was good deal

compared to selling all the stuff and buying again.

Edited September 22, 2004 by astral

[JimGant]

You can certainly get the Non Imm O in Singapore (Single entry) based on your wish to retire

Astral,

Is this just a quirk of Thai Embassy Singapore? I've never seen anything officially published that allows "retirement" as a reason for obtaining a Non Imm O. And I know some have tried (like at the LA Consulate) and have been denied, thus forcing either the O-A application route, or going to Thailand on a tourist visa, then getting the Non Imm O.

Anyway, just wondered if you've seen something official on this -- or Singapore just has a less restrictive policy, like several honorary consulates do?

[lopburi3]

You can certainly get the Non Imm O in Singapore (Single entry) based on your wish to retire

Astral,

Is this just a quirk of Thai Embassy Singapore? I've never seen anything officially published that allows "retirement" as a reason for obtaining a Non Imm O. And I know some have tried (like at the LA Consulate) and have been denied, thus forcing either the O-A application route, or going to Thailand on a tourist visa, then getting the Non Imm O.

Anyway, just wondered if you've seen something official on this -- or Singapore just has a less restrictive policy, like several honorary consulates do?

This is the LA Consulate official web page for a non immigrant visa O based on retirement (this is not the O-A type) so ask if the folks you know that were denied had the stated requirements when they applied? In the case of this poster even if he has a problem getting an O visa he could get a tourist type which could then be converted.

VII.  For the purpose of retirement in Thailand (see also "Retirement Visas"), the applicant must be at least 50 years old and must submit documentation showing proof of retirement and his or her bank statement or monthly/year income along with his or her visa application.  In addition you will need a copy of your criminal record from the local police department and a certificate of health.  These documents must be certified by a Notary Public.  Also, please see detailed information regarding "How to Apply for Permanent Residence Permit in Thailand in case of Foreign Retired Persons" at the Royal Thai Embassy's web site at http://www.thaiembdc.org/consular/con_info...t_pm.html#iii.2 and "Applying for an extension for foreigner who is a senior citizen and wishes to retire in Thailand" at Thai Immigration's web site at http://www.police.go.th/thaiimb/frmain510.htm and Visa Issuance for the Senior Aged 50 Years or Above at the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs web site at http://www.mfa.go.th/consinfo/visa/Invi7.htm .

[JimGant]

Lop,

It appears the LA Consulate is just cross referencing the 'O' to the 'O-A' visa when it says, "see also "Retirement Visas." In any event, it all comes down to the same requirements, namely: proof of required finances in US bank (or pension proof), health certificate, police certificate, notarizations, etc. If you're going to go this goat rope in LA, best end up with the O-A, and not just an 'O,' which would require you to go thru most of the same wickets again in Thailand.

even if he has a problem getting an O visa he could get a tourist type which could then be converted.

As you say, if you don't want to get an O-A abroad, going the tourist visa, to Non Imm O, to 'extension of stay based on retirement' is the probable avenue to pursue. This is fairly recent -- and appears to be the 'official' way to get a 'long stay based on retirement' if you don't want the hassle of the O-A.

There are still ways to get a Non Imm O abroad as the first step towards retirement. And this seems to be via Honorary Consulates -- and this is what my friends have done after getting put-off by the LA Consulate. I was just curious, based on astral's observation, whether Singapore is now granting O visas based on retirement desires -- and just what requirements must be shown to get such a visa. If, like LA, the requirements duplicate getting an O-A, why would you not just get the O-A instead of a plain 'O?'

[ProThaiExpat]

I am still confused by the various replies in Thaivisa regarding the difference between non-imm O and non-imm O-A and I have been studying the subject and reading every post in this area for three years, including going through the process myself. I have also checked out the government sites, never Embassy or Counsulate sites, however.

My understanding was that O-A are granted overseas and O is granted in Thailand, at least as far as retirment is concerned.

Many have said otherwise. JimGant, Astral, Dr.P, lopburi3, can we get a consensus on this issue so we don't continue to confuse those who inquire in good faith?

Perhaps the officials are confused? Perhaps we should post only our own documented experience and leave the recycled hearsay for the ashcan?

Here I go: Non-immigrant O vsa obtained in Bangkok based on a change from tourist visa three years ago. The "O" appears hand written above a small stamp that reads "immigration bureau, sub div 1( and another large Non-immigrant visa stamp that has a category line in the middle of the stamp that has the hand written O on the "category" line. The large visa stamp has "Used" stamped over it. Re-entry stamps refer to "Non-Imm" without any further designation.

Help!!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I am still confused by the various replies in Thaivisa regarding the difference between non-imm O and non-imm O-A and I have been studying the subject and reading every post in this area for three years, including going through the process myself. I have also checked out the government sites, never Embassy or Counsulate sites, however.

My understanding was that O-A are granted overseas and O is granted in Thailand, at least as far as retirment is concerned.

Many have said otherwise. JimGant, Astral, Dr.P, lopburi3, can we get a consensus on this issue so we don't continue to confuse those who inquire in good faith?

Perhaps the officials are confused? Perhaps we should post only our own documented experience and leave the recycled hearsay for the ashcan?

Here I go: Non-immigrant O vsa obtained in Bangkok based on a change from tourist visa three years ago. The "O" appears hand written above a small stamp that reads "immigration bureau, sub div 1( and another large Non-immigrant visa stamp that has a category line in the middle of the stamp that has the hand written O on the "category" line. The large visa stamp has "Used" stamped over it. Re-entry stamps refer to "Non-Imm" without any further designation.

Help!!

An O class visa is still the most common visa issued abroad for both retirement and marriage purposes. Singapore will issue one, and as soon as it is extended in Thailand, reasonable quantities of goods and chattels can be easily be imported into Thailand without duties. Immigration does have the capacity to alter a tourist visa to an O visa. That is only a formal tourist visa, not that 30 day permit on arrival.

[lopburi3]

As Pat says above the "O" stands for "other" and is used for any non immigrant visa not falling under the defined categories of business, education etc. It is normally issued by a Consulate overseas but Immigration has authority to issue such as for extension of stay from a tourist visa. Normal procedure is to enter country on O visa and then apply for extensions of stay, all tied to that first entry visa. As long as these are approved and you do not leave without a re entry permit you never need another visa. If you do leave without re entry permit you then have to obtain a new O visa and start the process over again.

The O-A seems (it has been confusing to all) to be a method that can be used for those who want an assured stay of one year before travel as they can obtain the one year stamp at arrival immigration rather than going through the process two months later at an immigration office.

I believe the reasons may have been to avoid persons 'saying' they were going to apply for extension of stay in order to obtain O visa as no proof requirements were in place until the later application. Now some seem to be adopting the O-A requirements for issue of the O visa if we are to take LA page at face value (in my reading). This whole thing still seems to be a work in progress and there have been some reports of those getting multi entry O-A visas not using re entry permits and getting a new one year stay on each entry. Seems we are not the only folks confused with this new category.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

That 12 month stay is available on an O-A only on that first arrival, and subsequent renewals are exactly the same as those that apply to renewals of O visa's. ie. at Immigration and the funds then need to be in Thailand.

[phormio]

...

The O-A seems (it has been confusing to all) to be a method that can be used for those who want an assured stay of one year before travel as they can obtain the one year stamp at arrival immigration rather than going through the process two months later at an immigration office.

I believe the reasons may have been to avoid persons 'saying' they were going to apply for extension of stay in order to obtain O visa as no proof requirements were in place until the later application.  Now some seem to be adopting the O-A requirements for issue of the O visa if we are to take LA page at face value (in my reading).  This whole thing still seems to be a work in progress and there have been some reports of those getting multi entry O-A visas not using re entry permits and getting a new one year stay on each entry.  Seems we are not the only folks confused with this new category.

I'll be applying for an O visa(New York City consulate) based on marriage to a Thai in the near future. After reading your posts , I'm wondering if I should initially apply for a one year visa(guess this would be an O-A). Is it worth a shot? My concern is they will deny a one year O-A(based on marriage) and then will give me trouble when I reapply for the three month "O" .

Thanks.

[lopburi3]

I'll be applying for an O visa(New York City consulate) based on marriage to a Thai in the near future. After reading your posts , I'm wondering if I should initially apply for a one year visa(guess this would be an O-A). Is it worth a shot? My concern is they will deny a one year O-A(based on marriage) and then will give me trouble when I reapply for the three month "O" .

Thanks.

AFAIK there is no such thing as O-A based on marriage but you could be married and obtain it if you meet the over 50/800k baht requirements.

Apply for the O visa on basis of having a Thai wife if you have any idea of working here (and the 'in the future' comment means visa not wife). The extension of stay for support of a Thai wife requires 400k baht.

[phormio]

I'll be applying for an O visa(New York City consulate) based on marriage to a Thai in the near future. After reading your posts , I'm wondering if I should initially apply for a one year visa(guess this would be an O-A). Is it worth a shot? My concern is they will deny a one year O-A(based on marriage) and then will give me trouble when I reapply for the three month "O" .

Thanks.

AFAIK there is no such thing as O-A based on marriage but you could be married and obtain it if you meet the over 50/800k baht requirements.

Apply for the O visa on basis of having a Thai wife if you have any idea of working here (and the 'in the future' comment means visa not wife). The extension of stay for support of a Thai wife requires 400k baht.

Hi Lop,

boy you got back fast !

As you can see I'm a bit confused about the O-A as well. I'm not old enough for the retirement visa (wouldn't do it anyway as I'll want to work legally after 50 anyway), but would love to get a one year O based on marriage at Thai Consulate NYC - if I can avoid the need to extend after 90 days, why not?

I do recall you made a post a few weeks back on a different thread where you suggest that it may be possible to extend an non-Imm O even without transferring the 400K in nor having a job(>40K/month) , and this is a paraphrase, by showing exceptional qualifications and expressing interest in finding work and/or starting a business.

My situation and timing are such that I'll probably find work teaching in the Spring/Summer of 2005 but will be arriving Thailand in November/December of 2004 - the timing is a bit awkward . I have the financial wherewithal to transfer the 400K in , but hey, why do it if you aint got to? As I've seen posted several times before, I think it's Astrals' favorite quote - "don't bring any money into Thailand that you don't feel good about walking away from" or some such saying.

Merci beaucoup!

[JimGant]

Pro,

My understanding was that O-A are granted overseas and O is granted in Thailand, at least as far as retirment is concerned

Believe this is so, at least based on the following O-A requirement found googling Thai Embassy - Wash DC:

Having the nationality of or the residence in the country (my emphasis) where his/her application is submitted

But the LA Consulate, always ah's, go even further in their requirement for an O-A:

The applicant must be presently residing in their home country.  (Note: The Royal Thai Consulate General in Los Angeles will only issue the "O-A" Visa to U.S. citizens.  For nationals from other countries they must apply in their home country.);

So, LA says US citizens only - legal aliens need not apply, but must go home to their native land to get their O-A. Or just go around LA, and send your application to the Thai Embassy, who last I heard outranked Consulates!

Now, having said all that, LA also says the following:

The holder of any category of visa to the Kingdom of Thailand may apply in Thailand to change to another visa category when you are in Thailand, if you are qualified for that type of visa.  The applicant can apply for changing a visa category at the Immigration Bureau Office in Thailand.

We know this is true when it comes to changing a tourist visa to a Non Immigrant 'O' visa for the purposes of retirement. Does this mean, then, that one can change a tourist visa to Non Immigrant 'O-A' if they meet all the requirements? Probably not, since to be "qualified" you have to apply abroad, at least strictly speaking. Which doesn't mean a whole lot when it comes to Immigration ad hocs.

[lopburi3]

I would be more worried about the money bit if unmarried or a new wife. It is often cited to those intent on purchase of condo or house here and is a good policy in that sense.

I feel it is good to have that amount in a bank here just in case of medical emergency as although I have US insurance I would have to pay up front. Not everyone in that position but think fast access, by other half if needed, is important for some kind of nest egg.

I think I would transfer the money just to be sure extension would be granted as the unable to meet first year is really a judgement call and designed to allow those just married here time to acquire funds and employment. There is nothing to prevent you using that money however you see fit.

[DaiMai]

Error

[astral]

As I understand it there is not too much difference between the O-A visa for retirement and the O for the same reason.

The O-A requires you to produce all your proof of funds/income and health at the Embassy in your country, then you get the one year straight away.

The O is much easier to apply for at the embassy, but only gets you an initial 3 months.

You have to produce the proof of funds and health about 2 months after you arrive in Thailand to apply for your extension for one year.

Swings and roundabouts, but generally the O is easier and cheaper. A health check up here costs 100 baht, how much in your country?

As already stated an O visa is for many things, including retirement and those who have Thai spouses.

Unless you have a Thai spouse, then under the age of 50 you need a Non Imm B visa.

An O visa for a married person also allows them to work, subject to a work permit.

An O-A visa for retirement does not allow any work.

I hope that helps clear the confusion.

[JimGant]

Lop,

I think the LA webpage "Non Immigrant Visas" is pointing to getting an 'O-A' subcategory visa when all requirements are met. Their old webpage used to delineate by subcategory ('B', 'O', 'F' whatever). Now, they just talk about all the different requirements for getting a Non Immigrant Visa, with no mention at all which subcategory will be stamped in your passport. Maybe this is to prevent confusion for newbies. But their cross reference to "retirement visa" does mention the 'O-A' subcategory (as does a separate, but near-identical cross reference at the top of the Non Imm section to "One-year Non Immigrant Visa.") Confusing, but I think getting a Non Immigrant visa for retirement purposes means an 'O-A' stamped in your passport. To get just an 'O" would really be a screw job. (But one that LA's capable of, unfortunately.)

Interesting that Doc thinks you can get an 'O' visa in Singapore by just stating your intentions to retire in Thailand. Can't do this at Thai Embassy - Wash DC. Probably not London, either. Many Honorary Consulates, yes. Interesting.

Just 'cause it's a boring Sunday, let me throw this out.

The official name for the 'O-A' visa is (or used to be) "O-A (Long Stay)." It didn't seem to be limited to retirement purposes. Now, the following quote, seen at many Thai Embassy/Consulate websites:

The Non-Immigrant Visa is usually issued for a period of up to 90 days unless the Consulate receives special instructions from the Immigration Bureau of Thailand

Does this mean that, if I somehow got permission to stay longer than 90 days, my Non Imm visa would be an O-A type? Does this ring any bells with anyone? If so, who and what give permission for 'long stay,' ie, longer than 90 days?

[lopburi3]

The Royal Thai Embassy Washington web site says that a 90 day O visa is available for long stay upon proof of retirement and funds per:

NON-IMMIGRANT VISA

(May required the approval from the Ministry Concerns from Thailand in case by case and required invitation letter from Thailand)

Purpose of visit: BUSINESS and CONFERENCE (requiring the business letter with letter-head explains purpose of visit, also included name of company, organization or mission and address in Thailand), RESEARCH, TEACHING, MASS MEDIA or MISSIONARY (requiring the letter with letter-head from company, agency or organization sending you on your mission, and also the letter from your counterpart in Thailand). TEACHING AND EDUCATION (requiring the letter with the letter-head from educational institution in Thailand). FAMILY REUNION (requiring marriage or birth certificates). SETTLEMENT AFTER RETIREMENT (requiring proof of retirement and financial support). MEDICAL TREATMENT (requiring letter from licensed doctor). (Maximum stay 90 days, extension of stay may be applied in Thailand.)

They have another page of expanded requirements and application for O-A Residence Permit.

[redwood13]

This whole thing still seems to be a work in progress and there have been some reports of those getting multi entry O-A visas not using re entry permits and getting a new one year stay on each entry.  Seems we are not the only folks confused with this new category.

As I previously mentioned several months ago, I have an O-A multiple entry visa issued by an honorary consulate in the US on 14 Oct. 2003. I first utilized the visa when I entered Thailand on 25 Oct. 2003 and was admitted until 24 Oct. 2004.

In February of this year I went to Cambodia for about 2 weeks and when I flew back to Bangkok on 18 Feb. 2004 I was given an additional 365 days, i.e. admitted until 17 Feb.2005.

Then last Thursday I flew to Singapore and returned Sunday and was given a new admitted until date of 25 Sept. 2005.

-redwood

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Only an O visa can apply to a marriage situation. The O-A relates to retiremement There are no legal ways around the financial obligations applicable to retirement or marriage.

[JimGant]

The Royal Thai Embassy Washington web site says that a 90 day O visa is available for long stay upon proof of retirement and funds per:

Sounds like maybe you can get an 'O' if you're over 50, can show you're retired, and meet some level of funding. And maybe no medical or police records needed either(?).

Interesting also that there now doesn't seem to be any geographic restriction on applying at an Honorary Consulate. Before this webpage was updated (Apr 2004), there was some kind of restriction (although I don't think it was always enforced). And if anything's been learned on this forum, it's that Honorary is the way to go -- and LA is NOT!

[JimGant]

As I previously mentioned several months ago, I have an O-A multiple entry visa issued by an honorary consulate in the US on 14 Oct. 2003

Redwood,

Neat! Assuming you mail in your 90 day reports, nearly two years in Thailand without having to visit Immigration. (Although should you want to leave the country, I guess you'd need to visit for a reentry stamp once your visa expires 14 Oct 04.)

[phormio]

Thanks to the replies to my questions and comments.

I'll be dealing with the New York City Consulate. Anybody heard

good, bad, or indifferent about service there?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

As I previously mentioned several months ago, I have an O-A multiple entry visa issued by an honorary consulate in the US on 14 Oct. 2003

Redwood,

Neat! Assuming you mail in your 90 day reports, nearly two years in Thailand without having to visit Immigration. (Although should you want to leave the country, I guess you'd need to visit for a reentry stamp once your visa expires 14 Oct 04.)

and to extend it for another 12 months.

[JimGant]

and to extend it for another 12 months.

Yeah, but this he now doesn't have to do until Sep 24, 2005 -- just a few weeks shy of his 2-year anniversary of his multiple entry O-A. Probably a quirk, since most O-As seem to be single entry. But what a nice -- and interesting -- quirk.

[redwood13]

and to extend it for another 12 months.

Yeah, but this he now doesn't have to do until Sep 24, 2005 -- just a few weeks shy of his 2-year anniversary of his multiple entry O-A. Probably a quirk, since most O-As seem to be single entry. But what a nice -- and interesting -- quirk.

I too assumed my holding a multiple entry O-A visa was the reason I was given extensions of my admitted until date, but in a thread posted in August on the nanaplaza board 3 people holding O-A visas report being given admitted until dates of an additional 365 days on re-entering Thailand at Don Muang. Two of the 3 did not have multiple entry visas.

One of the guys says on checking with Suan Plu re the correctness of the new date he was told to go buy a multiple re-entry permit which he did. But he also admits he had trouble communicating with the immigration officer, so I wonder if there was some misunderstanding re his linking the new date with obtaining a multiple re-entry permit.

-redwood

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It has to be a mistake Redwood.

[astral]

I have an O-A multiple entry visa  issued by an honorary consulate in the US on 14 Oct. 2003.  I first utilized the visa when I entered Thailand on 25 Oct. 2003 and was admitted until 24 Oct. 2004.

In February of this year I went to Cambodia for about 2 weeks and when I flew back to Bangkok on 18 Feb. 2004 I was given an additional 365 days, i.e. admitted until 17 Feb.2005.

Then last Thursday I flew to Singapore and returned Sunday and was given a new admitted until date of 25 Sept. 2005.

-redwood

Now that is interesting. Perhaps a slip up on the part of the officer who admitted you in Feb , but maybe not as it was repeated in September.

Does the O-A visa say Multi-entry?

Did you have a re-entry permit

I had assumed that after the first year you would be on the same rules as everybody else and have to re-confirm you financial status, to get the next year.

Any thoughts from the Dr, or Lopburi?

Either way, keep up the 90 day reporting.

Edited September 28, 2004 by astral

[lopburi3]

I have an O-A multiple entry visa  issued by an honorary consulate in the US on 14 Oct. 2003.  I first utilized the visa when I entered Thailand on 25 Oct. 2003 and was admitted until 24 Oct. 2004.

In February of this year I went to Cambodia for about 2 weeks and when I flew back to Bangkok on 18 Feb. 2004 I was given an additional 365 days, i.e. admitted until 17 Feb.2005.

Then last Thursday I flew to Singapore and returned Sunday and was given a new admitted until date of 25 Sept. 2005.

-redwood

Now that is interesting. Perhaps a slip up on the part of the officer who admitted you in Feb , but maybe not as it was repeated in September.

Does the O-A visa say Multi-entry?

Did you have a re-entry permit

I had assumed that after the first year you would be on the same rules as everybody else and have to re-confirm you financial status, to get the next year.

Any thoughts from the Dr, or Lopburi?

Either way, keep up the 90 day reporting.

As I indicated in another post believe officers are overloaded at immigration trying to get everything right in the 60 seconds they have to process people that mistakes can happen. Previously the common error was a 90 day stamp instead of the full year. Now they seem to be trying not to make that mistake and err on the other side. There is also the problem with some consulates using the multi stamp to further confuse the issue. And if they do not see a re-entry permit the assumption would be it is a first entry and should be one year.