People's Alliance For Democracy To Renew Movement

[bannedagain]

And where we are just at it...

Where is you people's outrage against Gen. Surayudh, who not just was in command of Special Warfare Command troops during the May '92 massaker, but who also personally want with his bodyguards during the demonstrations to the Royal Hotel, where his bodyguards have beaten and rifle butted injured protesters, doctors and nursing staff in Surayudh's presence.

Samak is not alone in having commited/instigated atrocities here.

Aren't you mistaking him for Chainarong Noonpakdi who was, I believe, the one actually in charge of the crackdown on protesters? I have never read anything anywhere that suggest Surayudh was in charge of the troops during that crackdown but rather recall reading in Asiaweek, that Surayudh was not in Bangkok. Do you have any proof to back up these allegations?

No mistake. There are conflicting versions of Surayudh himself. He has repeatedly stated that he has never given the shooting order (which is rather strange as he was in command of Special Warfare Command, and the shooting lasted for days). Nevertheless, in one recently banned book by Giles Ungpakorn the accusation is made, supported by a footnote of an interview with Surayudh published in, i believe the Siam Rath, in which Surayudh himself has admitted to his personal appearance there.

In addition to that, and a purely personal experience, i do know several Special Warfare Command officers, one of them at the time as a young soldier was part of Surayudh's bodyguard, and has given me a very interesting personal account of what happened from his position at that time. He blamed his actions of that day on the stress factor, somewhat expressed regret in a limited way.

[bannedagain]

^^ I've just read the first page of that book you recommended with the amazon reader. Stories in the 70s of penis shrinking potions distributed by the vietnamese to permanently halt the Thai birth rates, blood sucking vampires resembling students running around that store and give blood for transfusion for the communists..... wow. strange times indeed.

And we are still living in strange times. Today we have again a increase in extreme nationalist militias. Some of the names have changed - the game stays the same.

Edited March 4, 2008 by bannedagain

[LuckyFive8888]

yikes! not the shrinking potion, no way...

[bannedagain]

yikes! not the shrinking potion, no way...

As far as i know the initiations are not anymore made with such a mystical ritual as in those days. It's a more straightforward ceremony of an oath of loyalty, the handing out of weapons after a two day to a week training course.

Don't underestimate it - the potential danger of at least a hundred thousand armed civilians only in the three southern provinces (and many more in the other border provinces) is no laughing matter. Something is set into motion here that may well get out of hand at some point in the future.

Read the last International Crises Group report on this subject - a sobering read.

Edited March 4, 2008 by bannedagain

[chownah]

".. stir up hatred against Thammasat University students .." who subsequently were massacred in cold blood, in broad daylight by Samak's listeners.

If that is not cheering, than what is? Dancing with pom poms.

What you've got is a short quip from WIKIPEDIA.....we have not idea specifically what "stir up hatred" means or what Samak allegedly said in this regard and we have really no idea what agenda the author of the quip might have.

I'll repeat myself here as it seems that you didn't read this the first time around as it directly addresses what you have posted here:

Stirring up hatred for some group does not necessarily mean you would be willing to cheer a massacre....it does not mean he was going.."yeaaaay...three more killed....yes...good work....go kill some more....." Many politicians might stir up hatred for the opposition but it does not mean that they want the opposition killed by any stretch of the imagination.

You are clearly reading your own meaning into the Wikipedia article....it clearly does not indicate that Samak cheered the massacre....nor that he cheered for the massacre either before, during, or after. Quite frankly I think that even in Thailand if he had done this on the radio there would have been legal action taken against him....of course I could be wrong.

I'm still looking for evidence that Samak cheered the massacre. You said it was in the Wikipedia article and clearly it is not. I am beginning to believe that this cheering only happened in your imagination...if I am wrong then please provide the source for this view...or admit that it is just your opinion and is not supported with evidence....or something.........stirring up hatred does not necessarily mean that you cheer a massacre....there are plenty of radio talk shows in the US and I assume elsewhere which demonstrate this.

Chownah

Why do you insist on going way off topic with your fixation on samak and his cheering ? It has really nothing to do with this topic and certainly not worth the stubborn diversion you have engaged in.

I'll try and make it simple... and I would ask that you open your mind just a little before responding. Cheering means "to encourage with shouts". It doesn't necessarily need to have a positive, joyous or pom pom clad meaning.

Now, i'll let you do the next bit. Try and fit this definition with the reports of what samak was doing at the time. If you have an open mind (which you have assured everyone you do have ), you will find that this definition fits!

If you can't or won't get it to fit.... well.... please just forget about it then, and put it down as a misunderstanding or a mental block or something.... AND MOVE ON.

Finally, at least consider from the angle of how your post has relevance to the topic, keeping in mind you initiated this diversion and have kept it going with your closed, defensive fixation.

I am not going off topic here....I am replying to a Plus's visious accusation that Samak cheered the massacre.....when pressed for his evidence of this he quoted a Wikipedia article...I examined the article and some associated Wikipedia links and discovered that there was nothing at Wikipedia at his reference or to closely related links that indicated that Samak had cheered the massacre...I pointed out that "Stirring up hatred for some group does not necessarily mean you would be willing to cheer a massacre...." and that "Many politicians might stir up hatred for the opposition but it does not mean that they want the opposition killed by any stretch of the imagination."

It's just that simple....Plus introduced this topic by making his accusation that Samak cheered the massacre....and even now he maintains this position and does so without bringing any evidence to support it....he talks as if it was fact and if it is fact then I want to see the evidence. Personally I think it is opinion and Plus is not able to tell the difference between fact and opinion in this matter. I have yet to see any evidence to indicate that Samak cheered the massacre...none...zip...nada....I'm perfectly willing to accept such evidence but so far none has been brought forward by anyone. It is clear that Samak supported the right wing...to what degree I don't know...no one seems to have any evidence...and any evidence that I have seen does not come with an explanation of the bias of the author which is a CRUCIAL matter when discussing political happenings in Thailand.

Maybe you take it lightly that someone is accused of cheering wholesale slaughter of demonstrating students...I don't know...I don't take such accusations lightly.....if anyone claims such a thing openly as being fact I will challenge them to show some evidence.....which is what I did....and no evidence has been forthcoming....so far the evidence only supports that Samak supported the right wing political movement...no evidence has been brought forward that indicates that he cheered murder.

Just wondering about relevance to the topic...if this topic is irrelevant then please ask Plus why he brought it up in the first place.

Chownah

Edited March 4, 2008 by chownah

[sriracha john]

Yes, but he is the one sticking his neck out. It's natural he gets all the flack, at least at the moment.

He was awarded an Interior Minister post for his contributions, they must have been more than trivial.

yadda yadda yadda...

back for more, banned again?

[sriracha john]

mish mash mish mash...

you had your chance on here before.... more than 10 chances, actually... any point you attempt to make on here now is completely negated by that, banned again...

Edited March 4, 2008 by sriracha john

[plachon]

".. stir up hatred against Thammasat University students .." who subsequently were massacred in cold blood, in broad daylight by Samak's listeners.

If that is not cheering, than what is? Dancing with pom poms.

What you've got is a short quip from WIKIPEDIA.....we have not idea specifically what "stir up hatred" means or what Samak allegedly said in this regard and we have really no idea what agenda the author of the quip might have.

I'll repeat myself here as it seems that you didn't read this the first time around as it directly addresses what you have posted here:

Stirring up hatred for some group does not necessarily mean you would be willing to cheer a massacre....it does not mean he was going.."yeaaaay...three more killed....yes...good work....go kill some more....." Many politicians might stir up hatred for the opposition but it does not mean that they want the opposition killed by any stretch of the imagination.

You are clearly reading your own meaning into the Wikipedia article....it clearly does not indicate that Samak cheered the massacre....nor that he cheered for the massacre either before, during, or after. Quite frankly I think that even in Thailand if he had done this on the radio there would have been legal action taken against him....of course I could be wrong.

I'm still looking for evidence that Samak cheered the massacre. You said it was in the Wikipedia article and clearly it is not. I am beginning to believe that this cheering only happened in your imagination...if I am wrong then please provide the source for this view...or admit that it is just your opinion and is not supported with evidence....or something.........stirring up hatred does not necessarily mean that you cheer a massacre....there are plenty of radio talk shows in the US and I assume elsewhere which demonstrate this.

Chownah

Why do you insist on going way off topic with your fixation on samak and his cheering ? It has really nothing to do with this topic and certainly not worth the stubborn diversion you have engaged in.

I'll try and make it simple... and I would ask that you open your mind just a little before responding. Cheering means "to encourage with shouts". It doesn't necessarily need to have a positive, joyous or pom pom clad meaning.

Now, i'll let you do the next bit. Try and fit this definition with the reports of what samak was doing at the time. If you have an open mind (which you have assured everyone you do have ), you will find that this definition fits!

If you can't or won't get it to fit.... well.... please just forget about it then, and put it down as a misunderstanding or a mental block or something.... AND MOVE ON.

Finally, at least consider from the angle of how your post has relevance to the topic, keeping in mind you initiated this diversion and have kept it going with your closed, defensive fixation.

I am not going off topic here....I am replying to a Plus's visious accusation that Samak cheered the massacre.....when pressed for his evidence of this he quoted a Wikipedia article...I examined the article and some associated Wikipedia links and discovered that there was nothing at Wikipedia at his reference or to closely related links that indicated that Samak had cheered the massacre...I pointed out that "Stirring up hatred for some group does not necessarily mean you would be willing to cheer a massacre...." and that "Many politicians might stir up hatred for the opposition but it does not mean that they want the opposition killed by any stretch of the imagination."

It's just that simple....Plus introduced this topic by making his accusation that Samak cheered the massacre....and even now he maintains this position and does so without bringing any evidence to support it....he talks as if it was fact and if it is fact then I want to see the evidence. Personally I think it is opinion and Plus is not able to tell the difference between fact and opinion in this matter. I have yet to see any evidence to indicate that Samak cheered the massacre...none...zip...nada....I'm perfectly willing to accept such evidence but so far none has been brought forward by anyone. It is clear that Samak supported the right wing...to what degree I don't know...no one seems to have any evidence...and any evidence that I have seen does not come with an explanation of the bias of the author which is a CRUCIAL matter when discussing political happenings in Thailand.

Maybe you take it lightly that someone is accused of cheering wholesale slaughter of demonstrating students...I don't know...I don't take such accusations lightly.....if anyone claims such a thing openly as being fact I will challenge them to show some evidence.....which is what I did....and no evidence has been forthcoming....so far the evidence only supports that Samak supported the right wing political movement...no evidence has been brought forward that indicates that he cheered murder.

Just wondering about relevance to the topic...if this topic is irrelevant then please ask Plus why he brought it up in the first place.

Chownah

You seem to revel in being pedantic and contrarian, often apparently just to start an argument over a single word, thereby often successfully, derailing the thread into a petty bickering match over a non-issue (yes, that word again!). For what it's worth, anyone who can deny the deaths of scores of his fellow countrymen/women at a well historically recorded incident such as Oct 6th, is quite capable of "cheering" (in the wider sense of the word) the events that led up to and followed that tragic period. OPINION, NOT FACT!

So, as Traveller wisely suggested, I suggest you put down the rag as well and move on Chownah.

[bannork]

Plachon as you know it's the winter or dry season, consequently I suspect Chownah has little to do on the farm.

What he needs to do is plant another rice crop out of season to keep him busy.

[chownah]

I just got back for working in the field.....an accusation that someone was complicit in the murder of demonstrating students...and then claiming to have evidence that points to this...and then continuing to make that accusation when it is clearly shown that what is claimed as evidence is in fact not in agreement with the premise...and still the accusation is maintained and no evidence is forth coming.......that kind of accusation needs to be addressed........Plus is basically accusing Samak of being complicite with acts of murder and claims to have facts which support that accusation.....this is not a matter of being pedantic...or contrarian...it is not derailing the thread...it is hard work being directed at making posters show responsibility for what they post

.......I'll repeat that.....IT IS HARD WORK BEING DIRECTED AT MAKINGPOSTERS SHOW RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT THEY POST.....something which has been sorely lacking in this the news forum......don't forget this is not the joke forum...it is not the slander or inuendo forum.....or maybe it is and I'm mistaken about this.

Chownah

[sbk]

alright, enough bickering.

Agree to disagree and lets get on with it, please.

None of this has anything to do with the original discussion of the PAD and their renewal. I, for one, would be more interested in hearing about their future plans.

[Pierrot]

I could'nt believe my eyes, Uncle Ho is back.

Actually it explains a lot about these people conception of democracy.

[Tony Clifton]

I could'nt believe my eyes, Uncle Ho is back.

Actually it explains a lot about these people conception of democracy.

His name is Somsak.

Give the present government a few more weeks and you'll see what democracy isn't.

Gone by April.

Edited March 4, 2008 by Tony Clifton

[Plus]

It is clear that Samak supported the right wing...to what degree I don't know...

He was a host for one of the radio stations, "Armoured car", that were used to brainwash and indoctrinate thousands if not millions of Thais into anti-communist killing frenzy that culminated in, but not limited to, events of October 6. That's cheering for massacre in my book. I'm not arguing semantics, that's all.

>>>>

Expanding this topic even further to include all the players participation in 1976 coup is way beyond this thread, and even this board. Bannedagain has to find another outlet.

>>>>

Giles book that mentions 1992 episode with Surayud is not banned. As far as I remember his unit took control of Royal Palace hotel that was converted into a hospital. There was no shooting there and no one was killed, though they probably were quite rough in securing the area. Considering it was a military crackdown on a public demonstration some degree of force was expected anyway, even in the most law abiding western democracies, let alone Thailand circa 1992.

>>>>

PAD is not a five member panel. They represent people. When there's no swell of public outrage over Thaksin, the five leaders kept low profile. At this point they feel they need to be prepared to resume their activities, they are not doing anything more - just promise to keep the eye on the ball.

[Plus]

Actually, Plus, as usual you are wrong, and not very informed. Giles book has been banned, as you can see in the following link:

http://www.prachatai.com/english/news.php?id=504

Oh, I see, it's a new development - police order is dated 18 January, 2008. The book wasn't banned under the junta, it was Chula bookshop's own decision. No one stopped Giles from selling the book himself.

As to the PAD - presently they are mostly a spent force. No observer right now expects them to be able to come up with any force against the government. Their backers high up have already made public statements that they do not wish them to demonstrate, and in the general public their support is at most lukewarm, people simply being absolutely tired after nearly two years of turmoil leaing to nothing but a unpopular coup, severe economic difficulties and a constitution with draconic security laws.

As I said, PAD is general public, and general public is in a wait and see mode at the moment. Without strong public sentiment you can call it posturing, I call it preparation.

PAD will become a force if Thaksin attempts a political comeback. People aren't after his money and they don't want to see him in jail, they won't take to the streets over his billions. They'll probably won't protest against the amnesty for the banned TRT execs, too.

[Polsevogn]

PAD is 'People Against Democracy'... nothing more, nothing less.

[Plus]

Chula's book shop refused to sell Giles book right from ther start, in 2006. I don't know if it's mentioned in the article or not.

>>>

"Small sector" of the general public appeared pretty big in 2006 No vote, nearly half of all voters.

Actually it should have been called People's Alliance Against Thaksin, but in those days it was also a struggle to restore democracy which was destroyed by Thaksin and his regime.

Coup leaders had the same view - they thought that democracy had been destroyed and needed to be reset to move forward, without Thaksin, of course.

And this is what more or less happened. Democracy is back in full force.

[Plus]

I'm not arguing against Thaksin's popularity.

I think he's meddling with politics only to save his ass and his billions, not to return in full force.

If Thaksin doesn't come back as a PM, which is the most likely scenario, you can't call it a strengthened position.

[sriracha john]

* No need. The mods are here.

Let's hope he gets some professional help.

Edited March 5, 2008 by sriracha john

[Polsevogn]

Sorry but I can't see what in his opinion would make him persona non grata.. Surely his opinion has merit in an open discussion? Is his opinion forbidden?

[ray23]

"Today's Top Stories

PAD threatens war

From the Bangkok Post Today:

The anti-Thaksin Shinawatra People's Alliance for

Democracy declared on Wednesday that the country had

returned to a "lawless era" and predicted the

government will sponsor a military coup.

Key leaders of the PAD met at Baan Phra Arthit for the

second time since the new government was sworn in.

The six-party coalition government led by the

pro-Thaksin People Power party "has looked down on

Thai people" with a series of actions which the PAD

has decided it must fight, a statement declared.

According to the PAD, the government has put into

action a master that seeks to "whitewash" all criminal

charges against ex-premier Thaksin and his family.

The government intends to provoke unrest, the group

claimed, in order to trigger a controversial new

national security law passed by the military junta

just before it left office last year.

If the PAD prediction comes true, the government will

invoke the new National Security Act and take over the

armed forces with Thaksin-friendly generals. Then it

will dismiss all charges against Mr Thaksin, and

cancel all trials.

In case that conspiracy is a wrong guess, PAD had a

fallback:

"If the above mentioned prediction is wrong, there

would be a charter amendment to whitewash Mr Thaksin

and his family without having to go to court."

It is far from clear how much support the PAD has, or

if it could successfully muster protests. Two years

ago, PAD could call up to half a million middle-class

Bangkokians to the street for an anti-Thaksin rally,

but there is little sign that it has that support any

longer.

According to the PAD statement issued Wednesday, the

government has disrespected the country by:

Appointing persons with tainted image as cabinet

ministers and House Speaker.

Quickly transferring high ranking government

officials, particularly the former director general of

the Department of Special Investigation, in order to

obstruct and interfere with the justice system to help

whitewash former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and

his family from criminal charges.

Removing senior police officers including the police

chief to pave the way for Pol Gen Priewphan Damapong,

brother of Khunying Potjaman, Mr Thaksin’s wife, to

become the new head of the national police bureau in

the near future.

Unjustified transferring of the secretary general of

the Food and Drug Administration and director general

of the Public Relations Department.

Preventing people from receiving accurate news and

information by sending signals to interrupt the

broadcasts of ASTV, a satellite-based TV station run

by a key leader of the PAD and founder of Manager

Groups, Sondhi Limthongkul, and,

Preparing to legalise casinos for huge amounts of

benefit without caring that it would destroy the

country’s culture and morality. "

[trader1]

People against Democracy(PAD)- sounds like they are getting nuttier than before.

[sriracha john]

PAD Criticizes Government for Interference in Judiciary Processes against Thaksin

The five leaders of the People’s Alliance for Democracy met for the second time today after the group’s revival last month. The PAD discussed various developments in Thai politics which they deemed as not transparent, especially the issue of unfair transfers of a number of government bureaucrats and the imminent intervention of the country’s judiciary process.

The key decision makers of the PAD are Chamlong Srimuang, Pipop Thongchai, Sondhi Limthongkul, Somkiat Pongpaibool, and Somsak Kosaisuk.

Somsak Kosaisuk told reporters the five key leaders are meeting to discuss the various developments that took place in Thai politics during the week.

Since the revival of the PAD, there have been a number of transfers of government bureaucrats that have allegedly been motivated by political interests. The group also discussed Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej’s public proposal of legalizing casinos in Thailand. The group lambasted the move for trying to turn something sinful into something legal.

The PAD discussed how casinos could harm the public while giving tremendous financial benefits to a small group of people. The fact that the proposal is being given such a high priority by the government while several other policies which were declared to the public and Parliament last month have not been discussed at all.

The PAD also lashed out at the government for its interference in the judicial process against former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his family. They gave an example of the transfer of the Department of Special Investigation Chief Sunai Manomai-udom.

The group also made clear its objection against the other unfair transfer of key government bureaucrats such as the Food and Drug Administration boss Siriwat Thiptharadol and the Public Relations Department chief Pramote Rathavinit.

One of the topics the watchdog group discussed included the alleged attempt to disrupt the satellite signal of the ASTV network.

Campaign for Popular Democracy Secretary-General Suriyasai Katasila says the group believes Thaksin is still in the position of power and is controlling the People Power Party behind the scenes. The People’s Alliance for Democracy is calling for the judiciary branch to maintain the integrity of Thailand’s justice system. The PAD demanded that Thaksin and his close associates be forced to answer to the court of law.

The PAD announced they will revive efforts to educate the public about the various corrupt activities carried out by the government. They have also called for a meeting with key leaders of the provincial PAD across Thailand. The groups will meet to map out the future strategies and movements of the PAD. Finally, in an effort to keep a close eye on the conduct of the government, the PAD will set up ad hoc committees to monitor the different facets of government’s operations. Special working groups will be set up to scrutinize some of the most pressing issues in the society including the judiciary processes against Thaksin and his close associates, future transfers of government bureaucrats and the state’s efforts in reviving the economy.

- Thailand Outlook

[jumnien]

Who do the PAD really think they are? They are as un-elected and un-representative as the military junta they cheered on.

[chownah]

It is clear that Samak supported the right wing...to what degree I don't know...

He was a host for one of the radio stations, "Armoured car", that were used to brainwash and indoctrinate thousands if not millions of Thais into anti-communist killing frenzy that culminated in, but not limited to, events of October 6. That's cheering for massacre in my book. I'm not arguing semantics, that's all.

Since you have been unable to bring any evidence to the table about Samak's supposed "cheering for massacre"...nor any evidence for your previous cliam that he "cheered the massacre" (I'm not arguing semantics either...but seems like you are changing the semantics a bit...but are you claiming both now, that he cheered for massacre before it happened and that when it happened he cheered it?)...so...I'll present some.

http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2007/08/...-appointed.html

From this link:

-----------------

Given the prominent linking of Samak’s name to October 6 one would seemingly think that he was some prominent leader, but he was at best a minor player in the events of October 6, 1976. The most prominent link to Samak and October 6 is this Chang Noi article from 2000:

Of these, Samak Sundaravej is one of the most prominent. Hence Acharn Ji Ungphakorn’s little exam for him. Q1: Did he back the radio station which was screaming "Kill them, kill them" on the eve of the massacre? Q2: Did he claim the Thammasat students were working for the Vietnamese communists? Q3: Did he, basically, approve? The answers to this exam are easy. Samak’s major role in these events is well-known.

COMMENT: I am not sure that Samak’s role in the “October 6 affair” is that well known. Yes, Samak was certainly on the “right” of the political perspective, but I think the claims that Giles/Ji makes seem a little of a stretch.[6]

On “backing the radio station”, was this Samak’s radio station or a Samak program? The prominent radio station at the time that was attacking the students was a military radio station, the Armoured Division Radio Station, and I assume this is the radio station that Giles/Chang Noi was referring to. This was under the military’s control, not Samak’s. Now, you can rightfully criticise Samak for supporting such radio stations putting out nationalist propaganda, but then you should criticise all other members of the military-bureaucracy for supporting such a radio station. I am little bemused why Samak was singled out here.

---------------

The Acharn's questions were posed in a rhetorical manner only and they were never answered which was to be expected....notice that even in the list of rhetorical questions the Acharn did not ask if Samak himself had broadcast "kill them"....he only asked if Samak backed the station....and the author of the article claims that Samak in some unexplained way supported the station but did not control it...and that Samak's role is being exagerated by his detractors.

So...here's a bit of information about the radio station in question....evidentally it was a military radio station which Samak did not control. No one mentioned in the article is accusing Samak of broadcasting "kill them" although there is an insinuation that someone did....

Chownah

[jumnien]

It's a bit interesting that I haven't heard Gen. Sonthi weighing in on how many his boys killed in 1976 and 1992? He's awfully quiet on that one!

[sriracha john]

Interior Minister may hold talks with PAD

The Interior Minister, Pol. Capt. Chalerm Yubamrung, commented on the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD)'s announcement to stage a protest against the so-called Thaksin regime, saying the deposed Prime Minister and former leader of the dissolved Thai Rak Thai Party, Thaksin Shinawatra, is a Thai citizen, and he has to return to Thailand to fight his charges in court. The Interior Minister therfore says there would be no reasons to protest against Thaksin.

Moreover, Pol. Capt. Chalerm says former premier Thaksin does not take any political position, adding that Samak Sundaravej is the Prime Minister of Thailand. He says the PAD has the right to think about the demonstration, but whether or not people will join them is another issue.

The Interior Minister also says he can organize a meeting with the PAD, in order to address its standpoint and solve this ongoing problem. He says he can ask the Permanent Secretary for the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) for approval.

Interior Minister Chalerm says he may find some time to hold talks with the PAD members in order to explain to them that they have misundersood the situation. He says he wants to see the country move forward and he would like the government to work with less problems.

- ThaiNews

[chownah]

It's a bit interesting that I haven't heard Gen. Sonthi weighing in on how many his boys killed in 1976 and 1992? He's awfully quiet on that one!

Yeah...I've been looking around and found this (a short excerpt):

------------

http://www.2519.net/newweb/doc/englisharticle/we.doc

"Meanwhile military propaganda had dehumanized the radical students, labeling them ‘scum of the earth’ (nak phaendin), the enemy of the “Nation, Religion and the Monarchy”, or lackeys of communist aliens (Vietnam in particular). A right-wing monk asserted that killing of leftists was not a religious sin since it killed the Evil One (Mara) (Keyes 1978:153)."

--------------

No mention of Samak or Sonthi. No one calling for killing although the monk's assertions are certainly borderline calling for it....all of this sort of propoganda of course would tend to justify violent means.

Another link which I think is really good to describe how Thailand got to the point where a brutally violent massacre happened is:

http://www.2519.net/newweb/doc/englisharticle/clean.doc

Chownah

Edited March 5, 2008 by chownah

[sriracha john]

Government Not Worried about People's Alliance for Democracy

Two key cabinet members insist their administration is not worried about the move by the People's Alliance for Democracy to examine its transfer of public officers and other controversial policies.

Commenting on the move by the People's Alliance for Democracy or PAD to examine the government's use of power, particularly its transfer of public officers, Deputy Prime Minister and Education Minister Somchai Wongsawat says the transfer of civil servants is usual for every government and clarification over the matter is the responsibility of each ministry.

Somchai reiterated that the recent transfer of high-ranking public officers is not intended to help cripple the investigation of the charges [his brother-in-law] deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra is facing.

He also points out that the establishment of the Civil Servant Union must be based lawfully.

Meanwhile, Interior Minister Chalerm Yoobumrung says he agrees with the PAD's campaign to examine the government and other public agencies and he is confident the government will be able to clarify its policies.

Chalerm also says the transfer of public officers under his ministry's chain of command will be carried out transparently and insists state officials must serve the people, not the old power clique.

The Interior Minister postponed his meeting today with the leader of the Democrat Party, Abhisit Vejjajiva, to discuss solutions to the ongoing violence in the southern border provinces, as he must inspect a blaze in a community on Rama IV Road.

Meanwhile, the Democrat Leader says his party's MPs are gathering information and that he has already made suggestions about the matter in the Parliamentary debate of the government's policies.

- Thailand Outlook

[Tony Clifton]

Back to the old TRT days where you have to read between the lines.

Interior Minister may hold talks with PAD

The Interior Minister, Pol. Capt. Chalerm Yubamrung, commented on the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD)'s announcement to stage a protest against the so-called Thaksin regime, saying the deposed Prime Minister and former leader of the dissolved Thai Rak Thai Party, Thaksin Shinawatra, is a Thai citizen, and he has to return to Thailand to fight his charges in court. The Interior Minister therfore says there would be no reasons to protest against Thaksin.

The interior minister may want to have his internal ear checked as the PAD never opposed to his return to face charges. They oppose his return if it is solely for the purpose of stacking the deck in his favour and restore the country to TRT rule which seems likely as days go by.

Moreover, Pol. Capt. Chalerm says former premier Thaksin does not take any political position (well, not a visible one), adding that Samak Sundaravej is the Prime Minister of Thailand . He says the PAD has the right to think about the demonstration, but whether or not people will (be allowed to ) join them is another issue.

The Interior Minister also says he can organize a meeting with arrest the PAD, in order to prevent the address of its standpoint and solve this ongoing problem. He says he can ask the Permanent Secretary for the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) for approval, but will rather push for a refusal.

Interior Minister Chalerm says he may find some time to hold talks with the PAD members in order to explain to them that they or the people have misundersood no choice in the situation. He says he wants to see the country move forward and he would like the government to work with less problems scrutinizers.

- ThaiNews