People's Alliance For Democracy To Renew Movement

[A_Traveller]

^ Sigh.

Fact 1. The attacks are not as you describe, or endeavour to attribute them through innuendo.

Fact 2. You claim to be there, again... I wonder.. What I know is that the pro-government supporters were not, shall we say spontaneous, funny that. Reminded of the welcoming committee of 'ordinary people' for the leader, on his return from exile, waving their 35,000+ thb mobile phones in their hands.

Regards

Edited March 30, 2008 by A_Traveller

[ando]

It seems quite unique to me in a so called democracy that elected government has do public battle NOT with the elected opposition, but with an extremely small minority of ..

What is so unique about government being responsible before its own citizens?

What kind of democracy are you trying to promote here? Singaporean style?

I should like to ask you the converse question; -- what kind of democracy do you promote?

A minority government with the elite class at its core, that rules over the majority peasant class keeping them virtual slave labour?

A democracy where a tiny minority of voters concentrated in the capital city can incite a military takeover of government at any time through street protests?

And yes a democratically elected government like PPP and TRT are and were responsible to their citizens through the ballot box. PAD and the military are not.

The Democrats are sitting on the sidelines preparing for the next election in the hope of gaining power by default.

[Plus]

Ando, why don't you just answer if the government should be repsonsible before its citizens or not, and in what form? Why is holding a meeting inside a university auditorium called a "battle"? PAD raised some very important questions regarding unilateral move by politicians to amend consitution that serves all Thai people? EVERYONE has the right to raise voice in this matter, everyone is a stakeholder.

Why are avoiding this simple question?

So far PAD is acting well within its rights. I would say it's even their democratic duty as active citizens.

As for your questions, I'm afraid my answers, whatever they be, will simply provoke more questions and distracting history trips from you.

[Samuian]

I should like to ask you the converse question; -- what kind of democracy do you promote?

That is a good one!

And yes a democratically elected government like PPP and TRT ...

And this one is far better!

[ando]

I should like to ask you the converse question; -- what kind of democracy do you promote?

That is a good one!

And yes a democratically elected government like PPP and TRT ...

And this one is far better!

Do you have anything half intelligent to contribute to the discussion, or are you just content to act like a heckler in the back row?

[ando]

Ando, why don't you just answer if the government should be repsonsible before its citizens or not, and in what form? Why is holding a meeting inside a university auditorium called a "battle"? PAD raised some very important questions regarding unilateral move by politicians to amend consitution that serves all Thai people? EVERYONE has the right to raise voice in this matter, everyone is a stakeholder.

Why are avoiding this simple question?

So far PAD is acting well within its rights. I would say it's even their democratic duty as active citizens.

As for your questions, I'm afraid my answers, whatever they be, will simply provoke more questions and distracting history trips from you.

And my question to you is:-- Where are the Democrats in all of this? In a "normal" democracy its the role of the ELECTED opposition to challenge government decisions and policy they disapprove of, since the opposition represents a fair slice of the population also.

Pressure groups such as PAD are but a tiny fraction of even 1% of the voting population and yet they have the potential to cause political kaos through incitement of another military coup.

Certainly PAD has the right to peaceful protest meetings, especially in private venues.

My main objection to PAD is that some people here seem to think they represent a significant portion of the voting public, -- which they certainly do not.

Unlike the elected government and the elected opposition PAD are a self appointed political pressure group with only a very small following in the broader scheme of things. If the PAD leaders really feel they are representing the views of a significant portion of the voting public why have they not launched a political party where there supporters can be counted.?

As stated before, PAD are nothing more than a political pressure group with only a tiny following (all be it a very dangerous one in a country as unstable as Thailand).

PAD are really nothing more than a bunch of pseudo intellectual "knockers" with no ability to contribute anything constructive to Thai society. And PAD are certainly NOT accountable to the Thai voters at the ballot box. In fact PADs sole purpose in life is nothing more than to cause political strife and kaos.

As we have seen, when they get their way and the Army seizes power the PAD fall silent.

PAD is not accountable to the people. The Opposition Democrats are. Pad is making a lot of political noise and the Democrats are very quiet. Draw your own conclusions.

[Samuian]

I should like to ask you the converse question; -- what kind of democracy do you promote?

That is a good one!

And yes a democratically elected government like PPP and TRT ...

And this one is far better!

Do you have anything half intelligent to contribute to the discussion, or are you just content to act like a heckler in the back row?

You're getting better! and no, sorry I have nothing to add, due to lack of intelligence as of your brilliant diagnosis!

Nobody has been indicted and had to step down from his political post, for vote buying, there has been no massive rigging, there is no thread of dissolution of the PPP through a court verdict, and yes the current PM and his crew are the most honest and competent politicians this country has ever seen!

Edited March 31, 2008 by Samuian

[ando]

I should like to ask you the converse question; -- what kind of democracy do you promote?

That is a good one!

And yes a democratically elected government like PPP and TRT ...

And this one is far better!

Do you have anything half intelligent to contribute to the discussion, or are you just content to act like a heckler in the back row?

You're getting better! and no, sorry I have nothing to add, due to lack of intelligence as of your brilliant diagnosis!

Nobody has been indicted and had to step down from his political post, for vote buying, there has been no massive rigging, there is no thread of dissolution of the PPP through a court verdict, and yes the current PM and his crew are the most honest and competent politicians this country has ever seen!

I said "half intelligent " comment. Guess it went over your head.

[Samuian]

Sorry, there is no "democratically elected government"!

Massive Vote buying means the PPP has "voted", bought itself into Parliament.

The PAD has every right to exist and voice it's opinion in public!

The act which has been staged (again) at Thammasat, throwing objects at a political opposition rally is "knocking" (bullying), which I believe stands for inciting public unrest...

Remind you of October 1976 - who did play this recently down at an Interview?

In a genuine democracy everybody has the right to voice an opinion, whatsoever this might be!

Some points of view have a horizon like a circle with a radius of 0!

[ando]

Some points of view have a horizon like a circle with a radius of 0!

Congratulations!

Now that does sound very intelligent.

What were you smoking when that little gem burst into your mind?

[younghusband]

Sorry, there is no "democratically elected government"!

Massive Vote buying means the PPP has "voted", bought itself into Parliament.

The PAD has every right to exist and voice it's opinion in public!

The act which has been staged (again) at Thammasat, throwing objects at a political opposition rally is "knocking" (bullying), which I believe stands for inciting public unrest...

Remind you of October 1976 - who did play this recently down at an Interview?

In a genuine democracy everybody has the right to voice an opinion, whatsoever this might be!

Some points of view have a horizon like a circle with a radius of 0!

I don't have an issue with your contention that PAD has every right to voice its opinion and hold rallies.I think it quite healthy though they should be careful of being manipulated by the dark forces.There's a serious debate on the constitution to be held though I must say I don't sense much genuine passion one way or another in the country at large.

Where you are in error is your statement that the current government is in office by virtue of vote buying and isn't "democratically elected".From this it's no more than a short logical hop to the position that the current government has no more popular authority than the junta.It's frankly just a silly contention and you would do better to concede that this government has a genuine mandate and to concentrate your criticism on its inefficiency, mediocrity and mendaciousness (for which a perfectly reasonable case can be made).

Otherwise you come over as a dupe or intellectually dishonest, which I'm sure you aren't.Once basic truths are ignored what might be quite sensible points of view are undermined.Rather like the poor fellow who recently talked about Thaksin's money being bloodstained but on a challenge was quite unable to justify this lie.

[ando]

Sorry, there is no "democratically elected government"!

Massive Vote buying means the PPP has "voted", bought itself into Parliament.

The PAD has every right to exist and voice it's opinion in public!

The act which has been staged (again) at Thammasat, throwing objects at a political opposition rally is "knocking" (bullying), which I believe stands for inciting public unrest...

Remind you of October 1976 - who did play this recently down at an Interview?

In a genuine democracy everybody has the right to voice an opinion, whatsoever this might be!

Some points of view have a horizon like a circle with a radius of 0!

I don't have an issue with your contention that PAD has every right to voice its opinion and hold rallies.I think it quite healthy though they should be careful of being manipulated by the dark forces.There's a serious debate on the constitution to be held though I must say I don't sense much genuine passion one way or another in the country at large.

Where you are in error is your statement that the current government is in office by virtue of vote buying and isn't "democratically elected".From this it's no more than a short logical hop to the position that the current government has no more popular authority than the junta.It's frankly just a silly contention and you would do better to concede that this government has a genuine mandate and to concentrate your criticism on its inefficiency, mediocrity and mendaciousness (for which a perfectly reasonable case can be made).

Otherwise you come over as a dupe or intellectually dishonest, which I'm sure you aren't.Once basic truths are ignored what might be quite sensible points of view are undermined.Rather like the poor fellow who recently talked about Thaksin's money being bloodstained but on a challenge was quite unable to justify this lie.

Very well put.

totally agree.

[Plus]

Why are avoiding this simple question?

And my question to you is:-- Where are the Democrats in all of this?

As I thought - instead of one answer only more questions.

Democrat's response to proposed amendments and PAD meeting is in the newspapers. Should I go and fetch it for you? Will you finally give your answer if I do?

In a "normal" democracy its the role of the ELECTED opposition to challenge government decisions and policy they disapprove of, since the opposition represents a fair slice of the population also.

In a normal democracy people have the right, and in fact it's their duty, to publicly voice their opinions without waiting for politicians to speak for them. Excluding them from the public debate is a violation of their rights.

Pressure groups such as PAD are but a tiny fraction of even 1% of the voting population and yet they have the potential to cause political kaos through incitement of another military coup.

And how did you get your 1% number? You can't be seriously saying that if 100,000 people turned up at Sanam Luang it's the total number of supporters nationwide. No other group in Thailand's history has been able to draw such numbers on their own accord, ever.

[ando]

Why are avoiding this simple question?

And my question to you is:-- Where are the Democrats in all of this?

As I thought - instead of one answer only more questions.

Democrat's response to proposed amendments and PAD meeting is in the newspapers. Should I go and fetch it for you? Will you finally give your answer if I do?

In a "normal" democracy its the role of the ELECTED opposition to challenge government decisions and policy they disapprove of, since the opposition represents a fair slice of the population also.

In a normal democracy people have the right, and in fact it's their duty, to publicly voice their opinions without waiting for politicians to speak for them. Excluding them from the public debate is a violation of their rights.

Pressure groups such as PAD are but a tiny fraction of even 1% of the voting population and yet they have the potential to cause political kaos through incitement of another military coup.

And how did you get your 1% number? You can't be seriously saying that if 100,000 people turned up at Sanam Luang it's the total number of supporters nationwide. No other group in Thailand's history has been able to draw such numbers on their own accord, ever.

With around 40million eligible voters in Thailand the 5,000 Pad turnout is hardly representative of the majority of voters. In fact if you want to take your calculator out it comes down to about 0.01% of voter turnout to support PAD. You can extrapolate the level of support for PAD through out the countries voters all you like. But they are just airy, fairy numbers plucked out of the air because PAD is not accountable at the ballot box. PAD are simply wreckers of democracy who can slide out of the limelight when the going gets tough.

The Democrats have been ominously quiet on the issue of PAD and their agenda re the constitution. Hoping to pick up some crumbs it looks like.

I did read an article in the Bangkok Post (yesterday I think), where the Democrats are preparing for the next election by planning to run candidates in every electorate. Also they are going to reduce their number of party executives to 19 so as to reduce the risk of being dissolved for vote buying if party executives are found to be involved. Now that's confidence for you!

Edited March 31, 2008 by ando

[Plus]

With around 40million eligible voters in Thailand the 5,000 Pad turnout is hardly representative of the majority of voters.

In 2005 Sonthi started with barely a thousand. 5k for the first meeting is more than anybody expected. If PAD doesn't alienate its previous supporters, we'll eventually see close to a hundred thousand, if political situation continues to escalate.

Do you understand that for every person on the street there are many more supporters who stay home?

Judging by voting results the total number is in millions, close to half the registered voters.

[ando]

With around 40million eligible voters in Thailand the 5,000 Pad turnout is hardly representative of the majority of voters.

Judging by voting results the total number is in millions, close to half the registered voters.

That's a pretty wild extrapolation to conclude that all the people who voted for other than the current coalition government were stay at home PAD supporters.

One could just as easily use the same flawed argument to conclude that majority of the countries voters were anti-PAD.

A bit like saying all the people in the UK who voted Labour supported the Iraq invasion.

The truth is that PAD is a minority political pressure group with very little support outside Bangkok.

[plachon]

With around 40million eligible voters in Thailand the 5,000 Pad turnout is hardly representative of the majority of voters.

Judging by voting results the total number is in millions, close to half the registered voters.

That's a pretty wild extrapolation to conclude that all the people who voted for other than the current coalition government were stay at home PAD supporters.

One could just as easily use the same flawed argument to conclude that majority of the countries voters were anti-PAD.

A bit like saying all the people in the UK who voted Labour supported the Iraq invasion.

The truth is that PAD is a minority political pressure group with very little support outside Bangkok.

Rubbish. Members of Santi Asoke are mostly PAD supporters, and I reckon that Chamlong could call 10,000 at least of them up tomorrow to demonstrate in Bangkok if he wished, even though majority of them live in the boonies. They are an incredibly well connected and organised movement that scare the Thai establishment.

In every major provincial town, especially the university towns, there is another huge groundswell of PAD-support amongst the middle classes, with a smaller, but still significant support base amongst the NGO movement who have networks stretching across the country into tiny villages you never heard of. If push came to a shove, they could be mobilised too. So don't kid yourseld Ando, that the PAD support base is confined to Bangkok only, or you are more out of touch than you already appear.

[ando]

With around 40million eligible voters in Thailand the 5,000 Pad turnout is hardly representative of the majority of voters.

Judging by voting results the total number is in millions, close to half the registered voters.

That's a pretty wild extrapolation to conclude that all the people who voted for other than the current coalition government were stay at home PAD supporters.

One could just as easily use the same flawed argument to conclude that majority of the countries voters were anti-PAD.

A bit like saying all the people in the UK who voted Labour supported the Iraq invasion.

The truth is that PAD is a minority political pressure group with very little support outside Bangkok.

Rubbish. Members of Santi Asoke are mostly PAD supporters, and I reckon that Chamlong could call 10,000 at least of them up tomorrow to demonstrate in Bangkok if he wished, even though majority of them live in the boonies. They are an incredibly well connected and organised movement that scare the Thai establishment.

In every major provincial town, especially the university towns, there is another huge groundswell of PAD-support amongst the middle classes, with a smaller, but still significant support base amongst the NGO movement who have networks stretching across the country into tiny villages you never heard of. If push came to a shove, they could be mobilised too. So don't kid yourseld Ando, that the PAD support base is confined to Bangkok only, or you are more out of touch than you already appear.

WOW!

10,000 out of 40 million voters. Now we are really getting somewhere. The figure climbs to a staggering 0.025% of actual voters.

The thing is no one will ever really know the actual number of people who support PAD in principle because PAD is not accountable at the ballot box.

And to infer that PAD support is widespread and strong in the country side is simply wishful thinking.

But yes I do concede that they probably do have some support among the intellectuals and middle class in provincial towns.

10,000 PAD supporters spread over 75 provinces comes out to 133 people from each province. Not really an impressive number when you put it into perspective.

[sriracha john]

PPP not allowed to use Thammasat's auditorium

The People Power Party (PPP) said Monday it was extremely disappointed for not being able to use the Thammasat University's major hall for their seminars on Constitution amendment planned for this Friday and next Thursday.

The PPP's Samut Prakan MP Pracha Prasobd said the university said its main hall was booked on the weekends until next year.

- The Nation (today)

[Plus]

You still can't grasp the fact that for every person on the street there are many more left at home.

PAD support stretched through widest possible cross section of society. People who'd normally won't go near each other put their differences aside and joined hands.

Opposition to PAD was confinded to small pockets of left wing lunatics, for being royalist, and, of course, TRT. I don't know any Democrat voters who didn't in principle support PAD, for example.

Another little fact - people who voted for PPP's coalition partners didn't vote for pro-Thaksin agenda. "No" to Thaksin and TRT execs amnesty were their first conditions for joining. Pretty much pro-PAD stance, altogether.

[sriracha john]

You still can't grasp the fact that for every person on the street there are many more left at home.

He hasn't grasped that fact in over two years, why would he now??? He's still waiting for the rally with 33 million Thais in attendance.

Protestors of any cause in any country at any time in history are "representative" of unknown numbers of others who share the same view but are not in attendance. To simply state that the numbers of attendees represent less than 1% of the population fails to grasp this most basic of concepts regarding protesting. By that logic, it would require 33 million Thais protesting in one location at one time to constitute a "crisis" for the majority of Thais.

[younghusband]

[quote name='Plus' date='2008-04-01 07:20:51' post='1902371'

I don't know any Democrat voters who didn't in principle support PAD, for example.

.

Then you must associate with a very unrepresentative partisan group.I know a relatively large number of Democrat supporters who, while sympathetic to the early stages of the PAD campaign, became profounfly mistrustful of its leadership and agenda.

If you don't mind me saying so your history on this forum shows a persistent tendency to exaggerate the numbers of those who share your views.Broadly speaking it's better to focus on arguments than pluck numbers out of the air.On a related subject it's also my practice not to comment on "opinion polls" in Thailand whether they support my political line or not:they're just not credible in Thailand.

Best measure of opinion is a general election broadly free and fair.

[ando]

You still can't grasp the fact that for every person on the street there are many more left at home.

He hasn't grasped that fact in over two years, why would he now??? He's still waiting for the rally with 33 million Thais in attendance.

Protestors of any cause in any country at any time in history are "representative" of unknown numbers of others who share the same view but are not in attendance. To simply state that the numbers of attendees represent less than 1% of the population fails to grasp this most basic of concepts regarding protesting. By that logic, it would require 33 million Thais protesting in one location at one time to constitute a "crisis" for the majority of Thais.

Hey, the Hughie and Duey tag team is back in action!

I think you fail to recognize that the PAD is nothing more than a pseudo-political movement accountable to nobody. They are the opportunist knockers in Thai society who, unlike elected political representatives, can fade out of the political scene when it suits their political agendas.

I notice the Democrats have been keeping a safe distance from PAD in the media, even though they stand to be the major beneficiaries of the PAD protests if things go well. Perhaps the Democrats regard the PAD as a bit of a lose canon. Off the leash, and accountable to no-one, so to speak, is a pretty dangerous movement to hitch your wagon to when sometime down the track the Democrats will actually be accountable to the people, unlike PAD.

You can ponder over your extrapolations re their level of support in the general voting public all you like. The fact is that PAD is a movement supported by a very small minority of overall voters and does not have the balls (or the brains) to open itself to scrutiny in the political arena as a registered political party where their actual level of support could be counted at the ballot box.

Oh yea, but those 5,000 PAD protesters COULD represent 20 million people! But they might represent a mere 20,000 too. Even if they represented 2 million (which IMHO is unlikely), they would still be only a small minority of voters. What we do know for sure is that somewhere around 15 million + voters support the PPP.

PAD leaders are just a bunch of political whingers who are good while whining and complaining, but haven't got the courage to get in there in the real political fight where they have to stand up and be counted when the chips are down. Just a political pressure group with minority support is all PAD is.

Edited April 1, 2008 by ando

[ando]

You still can't grasp the fact that for every person on the street there are many more left at home.

PAD support stretched through widest possible cross section of society. People who'd normally won't go near each other put their differences aside and joined hands.

Opposition to PAD was confinded to small pockets of left wing lunatics, for being royalist, and, of course, TRT. I don't know any Democrat voters who didn't in principle support PAD, for example.

Another little fact - people who voted for PPP's coalition partners didn't vote for pro-Thaksin agenda. "No" to Thaksin and TRT execs amnesty were their first conditions for joining. Pretty much pro-PAD stance, altogether.

Take it easy before you blow a valve there my dear Plus!

Lets take your extrapolation to the extreme and consider that for every PAD supporter on the street (or in the auditorium), there were 10 supporters sitting at home. That gives us a grand total of some 50,000 supporters out of approx 40 million voters for PADs latest venture into inciting a coup. We are looking at something like 0.1% support base re total voters here.

Yea, I know. But their support base is growing and sometime soon its going to snowball... bla bla bla.....

Let me know when by your expert opinion the PAD support base reaches more than 50 % of voters and maybe then PAD will register as a political party to be held accountable to the people. I wont be holding my breath though.

[sriracha john]

I don't know any Democrat voters who didn't in principle support PAD, for example.

Then you must associate with a very unrepresentative partisan group.I know a relatively large number of Democrat supporters who, while sympathetic to the early stages of the PAD campaign, became profounfly mistrustful of its leadership and agenda.

As with most things, Your mileage may vary...

Among the Eastern Seaboard contingent of the Democratic Party that I'm most familiar, the vast majority supported PAD in principle and that support grew over the months of demonstrations.

[younghusband]

I don't know any Democrat voters who didn't in principle support PAD, for example.

Then you must associate with a very unrepresentative partisan group.I know a relatively large number of Democrat supporters who, while sympathetic to the early stages of the PAD campaign, became profounfly mistrustful of its leadership and agenda.

As with most things, Your mileage may vary...

Among the Eastern Seaboard contingent of the Democratic Party that I'm most familiar, the vast majority supported PAD in principle and that support grew over the months of demonstrations.

I'm not going to dispute this as you presumably know this grouping far better than I.All I would say that if there was at least some recognition of the troubling ambiguities in the PAD movement. there would be infinitely more credibility in its aims and agenda.Otherwise it all becomes a bit of a North Korean style rant.To be fair, asI have noted or implied before, Khun Abhisit and other thoughtful leaders are well aware of this problem.

[ando]

I don't know any Democrat voters who didn't in principle support PAD, for example.

Then you must associate with a very unrepresentative partisan group.I know a relatively large number of Democrat supporters who, while sympathetic to the early stages of the PAD campaign, became profounfly mistrustful of its leadership and agenda.

As with most things, Your mileage may vary...

Among the Eastern Seaboard contingent of the Democratic Party that I'm most familiar, the vast majority supported PAD in principle and that support grew over the months of demonstrations.

The "Eastern Seaboard" covers a lot of territory. You must have been pretty busy mingling with Democrat members up and down the coast in order to gain such a consensus of views on PAD. So nice of them to let you in on their personal feelings on such a politically sensitive matter too.

Or do you rather mean that you live somewhere on the Eastern Seaboard and the few Democrat supporters you happened to casually speak to indicated they supported PAD in principle at the time back in 2006?

[sriracha john]

I mean precisely what I wrote in what were my experiences in response to what YH's experiences were.

[Plus]

I don't know any Democrat voters who didn't in principle support PAD, for example.

Then you must associate with a very unrepresentative partisan group.I know a relatively large number of Democrat supporters who, while sympathetic to the early stages of the PAD campaign, became profounfly mistrustful of its leadership and agenda.

Read again - I said in priniciple. Calls for royally appointed Prime Minister were not accepted nearly as well as their anti-corruption drive.

I don't know of any Democrat supporter who wouldn't support corruption investigations against Thaksin and TRT. Do you? Do you think they exist at all?

In those days lots of people had access to the media, everybody had an opinion and didn't hesitate to air it. The whole country was divided and the so called "silent majority" didn't materialise, there was no one to speak up for them. When Surayud, of all people, called for that "silent majority" to turn headlights on to tell both PAD and TRT supporters to stop fighting it failed miserably, it just didn't exist.

>>>>

Ando, look at your one in ten number. Let's say half the population supports PAD. That means five in ten must be counted out, they are not PAD supporters, so we have rougly two million registered voters who support PAD in Bangkok. One in ten of that would be 200,000 people, largest PAD rally got 100,000.

So, even if we go by your one in ten estimate, we get a million people in Bangkok, a quarter of voters, not 0.1%.

Or here's another comparison for you - last year Royal celebreations had about 200,000 people on the street. We know that support for monarchy here is in 99.999% range. If PAD had 100,000, what would be their total support base? About half the country.

But, as SJ said, you couldn't grasp this concept two years ago, I'm not sure you are able to understand it now.

[ando]

Ando, look at your one in ten number. Let's say half the population supports PAD. That means five in ten must be counted out, they are not PAD supporters, so we have rougly two million registered voters who support PAD in Bangkok. One in ten of that would be 200,000 people, largest PAD rally got 100,000.

So, even if we go by your one in ten estimate, we get a million people in Bangkok, a quarter of voters, not 0.1%.

Or here's another comparison for you - last year Royal celebreations had about 200,000 people on the street. We know that support for monarchy here is in 99.999% range. If PAD had 100,000, what would be their total support base? About half the country.

But, as SJ said, you couldn't grasp this concept two years ago, I'm not sure you are able to understand it now.

You seem to be a little confused there Plus.

Here's what I have said in earlier posts; --

"With around 40million eligible voters in Thailand the 5,000 Pad turnout is hardly representative of the majority of voters. In fact if you want to take your calculator out it comes down to about 0.01% of voter turnout to support PAD. "

"Lets take your extrapolation to the extreme and consider that for every PAD supporter on the street (or in the auditorium), there were 10 supporters sitting at home. That gives us a grand total of some 50,000 supporters out of approx 40 million voters for PADs latest venture into inciting a coup. We are looking at something like 0.1% support base re total voters here."

Your creative accounting involves jumping between 2006 and the present as well as alternating between the Bangkok voter base and that of the country as a whole.

I notice you start out your calculations with the assumption that "half the population supports PAD[/b]"

But you end up with, wait for it, and I quote ;-- " a quarter of voters, not 0.1%."[/b]

Are you genuinely confused or just playing with numbers in an attempt to support you viewpoint?