People's Alliance For Democracy To Renew Movement

[h90]

But you noticed that it wasn't the junta who made the new constitution?

They didn't? The junta appointed 2,000 people onto the National People's Assembly which then voted itself to pick 200 drafting candidates. The junta then picked 100 of those 200 to be Royally appointed to the Assembly, plus the Assembly head. Of those 100, 25 were chosen (by the Assembly itself) to form the drafting committee, along with another 10 hand-picked by the junta. I'm not sure quite how much more influence over the constitution the junta could have had!

It was for this reason of course that the constitution granted amnesty to the junta for committing treason/rebellion/whatever you'd like to call it. Ironically this "looking after your own" is exactly the same (and just as despicable IMO) as what the PPP are now trying to do. I believe the PAD were a tad quieter on that issue at the time though...

But did you look at the people?? That were respected people, not some generals.

Where in the constitution of 2007 you can find a "looking after your own" in matter of continue to stay in power and fill your pockets for Sonthi or any other Army guy??? As well after the constitution was finished the junta went back home, not even tried to continue, not even a chance if the people would like them. While PPP only tries to stick on their chairs.

So the situation is complete different. I can't find any self-serving things in the 2007 constitution.

[Meerkat]

But did you look at the people?? That were respected people, not some generals.

Where in the constitution of 2007 you can find a "looking after your own" in matter of continue to stay in power and fill your pockets for Sonthi or any other Army guy??? As well after the constitution was finished the junta went back home, not even tried to continue, not even a chance if the people would like them. While PPP only tries to stick on their chairs.

So the situation is complete different. I can't find any self-serving things in the 2007 constitution.

Exactly - they went home, rather than jail where they should be (and where they would be had their overthrow not been legitimized retrospectively).

Also bear in mind that they took out of the constitution the declaration in the 1997 version that outlawed coups. At the time, the junta's Gen Saprang even hinted that there might be justification for other coups. What this does of course is set the army up as the penultimate arbiter of government under His Majesty - above the level of any democratically elected government. If that isn't self-serving, I don't know what is!

I do concur with your opinion though that the army don't appear to have used their brief rule to line their pockets personally (but don't forget about the two massive increases in the defense budget - which may, or may not, have been justified).

[h90]

But did you look at the people?? That were respected people, not some generals.

Where in the constitution of 2007 you can find a "looking after your own" in matter of continue to stay in power and fill your pockets for Sonthi or any other Army guy??? As well after the constitution was finished the junta went back home, not even tried to continue, not even a chance if the people would like them. While PPP only tries to stick on their chairs.

So the situation is complete different. I can't find any self-serving things in the 2007 constitution.

Exactly - they went home, rather than jail where they should be (and where they would be had their overthrow not been legitimized retrospectively).

Also bear in mind that they took out of the constitution the declaration in the 1997 version that outlawed coups. At the time, the junta's Gen Saprang even hinted that there might be justification for other coups. What this does of course is set the army up as the penultimate arbiter of government under His Majesty - above the level of any democratically elected government. If that isn't self-serving, I don't know what is!

I do concur with your opinion though that the army don't appear to have used their brief rule to line their pockets personally (but don't forget about the two massive increases in the defense budget - which may, or may not, have been justified).

What was self-serving?? Increase of defense budget makes sense or not, but has nothing to do with corruption.

The overthrow a dictator. Thaksin was by no means democratic elected at this time. Go to jail for what?? No one hurt, damage from the country prevented. The only mistake they did was not to shot Thaksin.

[cmsally]

What was self-serving?? Increase of defense budget makes sense or not, but has nothing to do with corruption.

The overthrow a dictator. Thaksin was by no means democratic elected at this time. Go to jail for what?? No one hurt, damage from the country prevented. The only mistake they did was not to shot Thaksin.

With rhetoric like this, thank god you are not running the country. (Although there are quite a few in politics with similar rhetoric). Try participating with a meaningful argument backed up by facts, and not assumptions and suppositions; those kind of arguments benefit nobody.

The argument so far is as follows: a huge increase in defence budget; of course that in itself is not evidence for corruption but it doesn't exactly look good coming from an unelected military government with no immediate external security issues.

Were the military overthrowing a dictator? He was elected to government by a large majority and would have gone back to the polls, only the opposition decided they didn't want to join in.

I haven't read the 1997 constitution word for word but a contributor above says that it outlawed coups, meaning the military were operating outside the law.

To say that their only mistake when acting outside the law was not to murder a person, really defies words.

As a footnote I would add that the Sudan, Congo and such places are very nice this time of year, maybe you should be residing there instead?

[h90]

What was self-serving?? Increase of defense budget makes sense or not, but has nothing to do with corruption.

The overthrow a dictator. Thaksin was by no means democratic elected at this time. Go to jail for what?? No one hurt, damage from the country prevented. The only mistake they did was not to shot Thaksin.

With rhetoric like this, thank god you are not running the country. (Although there are quite a few in politics with similar rhetoric). Try participating with a meaningful argument backed up by facts, and not assumptions and suppositions; those kind of arguments benefit nobody.

The argument so far is as follows: a huge increase in defence budget; of course that in itself is not evidence for corruption but it doesn't exactly look good coming from an unelected military government with no immediate external security issues.

Were the military overthrowing a dictator? He was elected to government by a large majority and would have gone back to the polls, only the opposition decided they didn't want to join in.

I haven't read the 1997 constitution word for word but a contributor above says that it outlawed coups, meaning the military were operating outside the law.

To say that their only mistake when acting outside the law was not to murder a person, really defies words.

As a footnote I would add that the Sudan, Congo and such places are very nice this time of year, maybe you should be residing there instead?

That defense budget does not like nice, you are right. War against drugs with 3000 dead one (official) and 1500 (official 50 %) which had nothing to do with drugs from your Thaksin might be a bigger problem than a higher budget for the military, or?

Thaksin was NOT elected by exactly that constitution you love. He destroyed the democracy as he baned all other parties from TV and newspaper.

Remember also Hitler and Bush were elected, if the army would have staged a coup Millions of people wouldn't die. Where would be Thailand without the coup now. For sure a lot people would have died, Thaksin wanted to get rid of the PAD.

I don't love coups and I really don't like militar at all but it was the only way to get rid of Thaksin. That they later messed it up, so he could come back is another thing.

[Plus]

A huge increase in the budget was for two reasons.

One - there was an equally huge decrease few years earlier that put Thailand way below its neighbours in spending on defence.

Second reason is the payoff to the generals who supported the coup. I have no evidence to back it up, but the sudden "unity" in the army must have come at a price. Thaksin had been stuffing the armed forces with his own people for years, they wouldn't have supported Sonthi out of the goodness of their hearts.

Same reason goes for prosecution for Krue Sue and Tak Bai. Generals covering those atrocities wouldn't have joined the coup if they were under threat of prosecution.

Sonthi and Co probably needed those deals to pull off "smooth as silk" coup without any resistance. All other alternatives had violent outcomes, they made the right decision even in hindsight.

[pete_r]

He destroyed the democracy as he baned all other parties from TV and newspaper.

I'll react on that: The PAD was all over the newspapers from January to September 2006. So were the Democrats in March-April 2006 when they called for the boycott of the April, 2nd elections (thereby taking their good share at destroying democracy). Is that what you call being banned from TV and newspaper?

For the rest ("For sure a lot people would have died, Thaksin wanted to get rid of the PAD."), as Cmsally said, could we have more facts and less assumptions?

Edited May 27, 2008 by pete_r

[nomoretalksin]

Firstly the 1997 constitution was widely hailed as being the most progressive ever in terms of democratic reform.

Then why no protests when it was abrogated by the military?

I believe the 2006 constitution includes powers for the National Security Council, which would I guess be synonymous with the military.

Putting yourselves in the shoes of someone who truly stands for democracy, the most logical position would be to support the reinstitution of the 1997 version and the condemnation of the 2006 version.

Surely the 2006 constitution was a step backwards for Thailand regarding the passage towards democracy.

1997 Constitution was was indeed hailed as the most progressive when it was first adopted, ten years ago but by 2006 it failed hopelessly on several important points - not only checks and balances on runaway PM's power, but on people participation, too.

Still, it was scrapped to justify the coup, not becuase it wasn't working or it was too democratic. The new, 2007 (not 2006 as you said), constitution gives MORE power to the people and makes politicians MORE accountable that 1997 version could ever have.

It has some contentious points, too, but nothing really urgent. PPP wants to let MPs work for the government and not for legislative branch as they were elected to - MPs want their hands on the money.

Undeniably the main consitutional problem for PPP is losing court battles for electoral fraud. When you can't argue the case - argue the law. If they can't amend constitution in time, they'll be found guilty.

    read above again very slowley and note the difference of "constitution change" (the coupmakers didn't scrap the 1997) they amended it, for the people to have more protection against corrupt politicians, the same reason they did the coup in the first place.

[Plus]

"Pad was all over newspapers" - yeah, but 90% of the population get their news from TV which was controlled by the government all the way to the end.

[hammered]

Firstly the 1997 constitution was widely hailed as being the most progressive ever in terms of democratic reform.

Then why no protests when it was abrogated by the military?

I believe the 2006 constitution includes powers for the National Security Council, which would I guess be synonymous with the military.

Putting yourselves in the shoes of someone who truly stands for democracy, the most logical position would be to support the reinstitution of the 1997 version and the condemnation of the 2006 version.

Surely the 2006 constitution was a step backwards for Thailand regarding the passage towards democracy.

1997 Constitution was was indeed hailed as the most progressive when it was first adopted, ten years ago but by 2006 it failed hopelessly on several important points - not only checks and balances on runaway PM's power, but on people participation, too.

Still, it was scrapped to justify the coup, not becuase it wasn't working or it was too democratic. The new, 2007 (not 2006 as you said), constitution gives MORE power to the people and makes politicians MORE accountable that 1997 version could ever have.

It has some contentious points, too, but nothing really urgent. PPP wants to let MPs work for the government and not for legislative branch as they were elected to - MPs want their hands on the money.

Undeniably the main consitutional problem for PPP is losing court battles for electoral fraud. When you can't argue the case - argue the law. If they can't amend constitution in time, they'll be found guilty.

Few point this out and few people seem aware of it. The increased protections and rights for people in the 2007 constitution vis-a-vis the 1997 one should be retained and true believers in Democracy should surely be calling for this.

If the constitution is to be amended (as opposed to scrapped for nefarious reasons), it would seem the democratic and reasonable way ahead would be for a full and open discussion on the document and full public involvement.

Surely this hurry cant all be about finding a very quick way to unshackle Mr. T and his 111 servitors at the expense of everything else.

[hammered]

"Pad was all over newspapers" - yeah, but 90% of the population get their news from TV which was controlled by the government all the way to the end.

Lets not forget the "informal media" consisting of the village headmen too. What happened to all those illegal community radio stations that the minister of "no freedom of speech here" said could contiue to operate illegally if they became government propoganda outlets.

As you rightly state even the Thai press has little influence in the bastions of PPP utopia. Good to see some rice farmers burning effigees of old Mingwan up North though. Maybe the governments failure to deal with economic problems may even come back to hurt them unless of course they can divert everyones attention by causing a few distractions that is. Interesting times, and times where pure propoganda and well marketted fear mongering combined with Stalinist style revision of anything said or done could well rule the roost.

[chevykanteve]

Number of protesters drop to 300 at 7 am

The demonstration at the Makkhawan Bridge continued Tuesday morning with about 300 protesters remaining there at 7 am.

Policemen guarding the areas were replaced by the new shift at 8 am and the Dharma Army of Chamlong Srimuang served vegetarian breakfast to the protesters at 9 am.

The Nation

300 out of 15.000.000 Bangkok people

Right... Not exactly the 30,000 that Khun S. was hoping for the other day. Maybe the "Dharma Army" can up the figures by 20 or 30 more people with promises of a vegetarian lunch to follow!

[nomoretalksin]

Interesting Breaking News:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30074098

Snoh tells PAD to go home, express confidence amendments will be aborted

Pracharaj Party leader Snoh Thienthong Tuesday told the People's Alliance for Democracy to stop its protests and go home, saying he believes the charter amendments will eventually bog down. Snoh said he had talked to "the old boss", apparently referred to former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, and the old boss agreed with him that the charter should not be amended now.

He said he had learned that some 50 senior members of the People Power Party did not agree with the plan to amend the Constitution now.

"The amendments will definitely fail and I bet it with my head. I believe the motion will be withdrawn," Snoh said.

The Nation

Unquote

Seams like all is controlled 100% by Thaksin and they are not even hidding it anymore! 5 minutes later Nation again:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30074099

://http://www.nationmultimedia.com/bre...d=30074099

20 senators, 2 MPs withdraw support of amendment motion

A total of 20 senators and two MPs have withdrawn their names from the motion seeking to amend the Constitution, the secretary-general of the House of Representatives said Tuesday. Phithoon Phumhiran, the secretary-general of the House of Representatives, said so far the motion was sponsored by 134 MPs and senators after the 20 senators and 2 MPs withdrew their support. He said those who sponsored the motion could still withdraw their name before the motion is put on the agenda of Parliament. He said it will be up to Parliament President Chai Chidchob to decide whether to put the motion on the agenda during the extraordinary session of Parliament next month.

The Nation

Unquote

Conclusion: Did Thaksin meanwhile made a deal with all the courts (under the table) and sees no need for amendments anymore?

Funny Thai Politics, since approx 6 years, decided by one man only?..... how long still we will hold this szenario? True as you guys above say:

Until the Democrats have "same" access to State government TV (and local Radio).

still on the charter amendment try by PPP?:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=127863

PAD completes gathering 20,000 names

(BangkokPost.com)

People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) has completed gathering 20,000 names to impeach MPs and senators who try to abolish the constitution endorsed by the referendum. As more people come to sign their names in a bid to impeach the lawmakers, supporters of PAD continue to gather at the Makkhawan Bridge to air opposition to attempts engineered by People Power party to amend the charter. The protesters were blocked on Tuesday from moving to the parliament, where the cabinet held a weekly meeting. Pracharaj leader Sanoh Thienthong, meanwhile, called on protesters to disperse and take care of their personal matters. He also opposed the cabinet's approval of national referendum on charter amendments, saying the 2-billion-baht budget should be spent on something else.

Unquote

Important day for Thailands Future

(Funny that The Nation quotes Pracharaj Party leader Snoh Thienthong saying another story than the Bangkok Post)

Anyone has more information about this man?

Edited May 27, 2008 by nomoretalksin

[jumnien]

One man decides all... that much is true! But it isn't Mr. T, is it?

[h90]

Number of protesters drop to 300 at 7 am

The demonstration at the Makkhawan Bridge continued Tuesday morning with about 300 protesters remaining there at 7 am.

Policemen guarding the areas were replaced by the new shift at 8 am and the Dharma Army of Chamlong Srimuang served vegetarian breakfast to the protesters at 9 am.

The Nation

300 out of 15.000.000 Bangkok people

Right... Not exactly the 30,000 that Khun S. was hoping for the other day. Maybe the "Dharma Army" can up the figures by 20 or 30 more people with promises of a vegetarian lunch to follow!

he told he hope for 30K on Sunday and Police estimate 15.000, my wife estimate a lot more. So different day.

[h90]

Smart move from Mr. T. buying him time. just what is with the party dissolving?

And what is with that cook who sits on the Premiers chair?

Is he also allowed to say something?

Hot Breaking News:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30074098

Snoh tells PAD to go home, express confidence amendments will be aborted

Pracharaj Party leader Snoh Thienthong Tuesday told the People's Alliance for Democracy to stop its protests and go home, saying he believes the charter amendments will eventually bog down.

Snoh said he had talked to "the old boss", apparently referred to former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, and the old boss agreed with him that the charter should not be amended now.

He said he had learned that some 50 senior members of the People Power Party did not agree with the plan to amend the Constitution now.

"The amendments will definitely fail and I bet it with my head. I believe the motion will be withdrawn," Snoh said.

The Nation

----

all is controlled by Thaksin 100%

----

5 minutes later:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30074099

20 senators, 2 MPs withdraw support of amendment motion

A total of 20 senators and two MPs have withdrawn their names from the motion seeking to amend the Constitution, the secretary-general of the House of Representatives said Tuesday.

Phithoon Phumhiran, the secretary-general of the House of Representatives, said so far the motion was sponsored by 134 MPs and senators after the 20 senators and 2 MPs withdrew their support.

He said those who sponsored the motion could still withdraw their name before the motion is put on the agenda of Parliament.

He said it will be up to Parliament President Chai Chidchob to decide whether to put the motion on the agenda during the extraordinary session of Parliament next month.

The Nation

-----

conclusion: Did Thaksin made a deal with all the courts (under the table?)

Funny Thai Politics, since approx 6 years, decided by one man only..... how long still?

[h90]

double post

Edited May 27, 2008 by h90

[hammered]

Interesting Breaking News:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30074098

Snoh tells PAD to go home, express confidence amendments will be aborted

Pracharaj Party leader Snoh Thienthong Tuesday told the People's Alliance for Democracy to stop its protests and go home, saying he believes the charter amendments will eventually bog down. Snoh said he had talked to "the old boss", apparently referred to former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, and the old boss agreed with him that the charter should not be amended now.

He said he had learned that some 50 senior members of the People Power Party did not agree with the plan to amend the Constitution now.

"The amendments will definitely fail and I bet it with my head. I believe the motion will be withdrawn," Snoh said.

The Nation

Unquote

Seams like all is controlled 100% by Thaksin and they are not even hidding it anymore! 5 minutes later Nation again:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30074099

://http://www.nationmultimedia.com/bre...d=30074099

://http://www.nationmultimedia.com/bre...d=30074099

20 senators, 2 MPs withdraw support of amendment motion

A total of 20 senators and two MPs have withdrawn their names from the motion seeking to amend the Constitution, the secretary-general of the House of Representatives said Tuesday. Phithoon Phumhiran, the secretary-general of the House of Representatives, said so far the motion was sponsored by 134 MPs and senators after the 20 senators and 2 MPs withdrew their support. He said those who sponsored the motion could still withdraw their name before the motion is put on the agenda of Parliament. He said it will be up to Parliament President Chai Chidchob to decide whether to put the motion on the agenda during the extraordinary session of Parliament next month.

The Nation

Unquote

Conclusion: Did Thaksin meanwhile made a deal with all the courts (under the table) and sees no need for amendments anymore?

Funny Thai Politics, since approx 6 years, decided by one man only?..... how long still we will hold this szenario? True as you guys above say:

Until the Democrats have "same" access to State government TV (and local Radio).

still on the charter amendment try by PPP?:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breaking_news/b...s.php?id=127863

PAD completes gathering 20,000 names

(BangkokPost.com)

People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) has completed gathering 20,000 names to impeach MPs and senators who try to abolish the constitution endorsed by the referendum. As more people come to sign their names in a bid to impeach the lawmakers, supporters of PAD continue to gather at the Makkhawan Bridge to air opposition to attempts engineered by People Power party to amend the charter. The protesters were blocked on Tuesday from moving to the parliament, where the cabinet held a weekly meeting. Pracharaj leader Sanoh Thienthong, meanwhile, called on protesters to disperse and take care of their personal matters. He also opposed the cabinet's approval of national referendum on charter amendments, saying the 2-billion-baht budget should be spent on something else.

Unquote

Important day for Thailands Future

(Funny that The Nation quotes Pracharaj Party leader Snoh Thienthong saying another story than the Bangkok Post)

Anyone has more information about this man?

It may just be that he sees things have been cranked up to such a level of confrontation that extreme measures may just come into play and that it is better to wind things down right now so as to fight another day. It would be interesting to see teh names of the senators and MPs who have withdrawn so that we can work out whose banner they usually fall under. It would then be easier to analyse what is going on. Certainly things are very high risk right now and everything remains in a state of flux. It is difficult to see how things will be finally resolved, if indeed they ever are

[Plus]

It's not so easy. I don't think Thaksin ever wanted to change the Constitution to clear his name, it would be meaningless "victory" and highly unlikely in any case.

I think the current push comes from the banned TRT and current PPP executives who need amendments to stay alive. Banharn woudn't mind saving his own party from dissolution, change one little article only, but he won't go the whole nine yeards against people on the streets, he's not confrontational and he needs their votes.

There are lost of MPs who have nothing to gain from the amendments but a lot to lose - some will probably be dropped from the next elections in favour of the returning TRT exiles, others will have to shoulder election expenses again.

Relatively few will be affected if PPP is dissolved, most of them can just switch to another party. With support for amendments below 5% and massive street protests that draw a lot of negative attention to the government, stubbornly working to save someone else's ass doesn't sound like a good idea. They'd rather go with the crowd.

Newin and Co will try to keep them on leash but once it's clear he doesnt' have enough votes to win in joing Parlament+Senate vote, he'll be forced to give up.

See how much difference one peaceful protest can make?

[nomoretalksin]

Insider Plus

I think another possible reason is, that Thaksin can't afford "especially currently" any "further" negative press in the UK. If they will get more and more wind that the Thai demonstations, are mainly related "to him and his proxy party", he would be there even more under fire there than he is already now.

Especially important short before announcing's Sven's kick-out and new transfers etc. for his Football Club Manchester City.

However he should understand, if he still keeps on fingering in Thai politics, he will never be able to stop the spreading of the truth, especially not in the UK!

It's all about pleasing the press, with the right stories (but in his case unfortunately, not always right actions).

So that's maybe another reason for their sudden pull-back after the PAD demonstrations caught already international attention.

PAD has maybe already achieved something in the last view days.

[h90]

It's not so easy. I don't think Thaksin ever wanted to change the Constitution to clear his name, it would be meaningless "victory" and highly unlikely in any case.

I think the current push comes from the banned TRT and current PPP executives who need amendments to stay alive. Banharn woudn't mind saving his own party from dissolution, change one little article only, but he won't go the whole nine yeards against people on the streets, he's not confrontational and he needs their votes.

There are lost of MPs who have nothing to gain from the amendments but a lot to lose - some will probably be dropped from the next elections in favour of the returning TRT exiles, others will have to shoulder election expenses again.

Relatively few will be affected if PPP is dissolved, most of them can just switch to another party. With support for amendments below 5% and massive street protests that draw a lot of negative attention to the government, stubbornly working to save someone else's ass doesn't sound like a good idea. They'd rather go with the crowd.

Newin and Co will try to keep them on leash but once it's clear he doesnt' have enough votes to win in joing Parlament+Senate vote, he'll be forced to give up.

See how much difference one peaceful protest can make?

Some mean, that Thaksin want to a lousy government so he can tell in a year or so "I must come back to safe Thailand" That does not sound very logic to me, but I'm 4 years here and never saw something very logic.

[nomoretalksin]

PAD URL currently not able to open :

http://www.astv-tv.com/ (live PAD coverage, if still ongoing?)

Anyone else can open it?

[thaigene2]

Firstly the 1997 constitution was widely hailed as being the most progressive ever in terms of democratic reform.

Then why no protests when it was abrogated by the military?

I believe the 2006 constitution includes powers for the National Security Council, which would I guess be synonymous with the military.

Putting yourselves in the shoes of someone who truly stands for democracy, the most logical position would be to support the reinstitution of the 1997 version and the condemnation of the 2006 version.

Surely the 2006 constitution was a step backwards for Thailand regarding the passage towards democracy.

1997 Constitution was was indeed hailed as the most progressive when it was first adopted, ten years ago but by 2006 it failed hopelessly on several important points - not only checks and balances on runaway PM's power, but on people participation, too.

Still, it was scrapped to justify the coup, not becuase it wasn't working or it was too democratic. The new, 2007 (not 2006 as you said), constitution gives MORE power to the people and makes politicians MORE accountable that 1997 version could ever have.

It has some contentious points, too, but nothing really urgent. PPP wants to let MPs work for the government and not for legislative branch as they were elected to - MPs want their hands on the money.

Undeniably the main consitutional problem for PPP is losing court battles for electoral fraud. When you can't argue the case - argue the law. If they can't amend constitution in time, they'll be found guilty.

Yes, I don't necessarily disagree with your point. But MY main point is NONE of the parties are interested in public participation. So I really wish the coup-apologists and upper-class-democrat whingers (not saying you're one) would p-l-e-a-s-e stop pretending that the Democrats are carrying the heavy heart of the 90% Thai poor people of their sleeves. That's just as laughable and disinegenuous as what they're trying to do to Jakrapob right now frankly (he may deserve a hiding for other things, being greasy for example - but not that FCCT presentation).

There is no question about what's going on here in my mind. It's the Establishment versus the Thakisnites all over again. The Constiution is a red herring - since any other Government could come in and change it again! The PAD/Democrats/Establishment just don't want to wait for the next election, can't face the fact they lost the last one, and so are trying to force another coup. Anyone really believe otherwise?? Like CM Sally said - where were the protests when a hand-picked military junta body drafted the last Consitution? Hmm - no protests then..strange...

[Tony Clifton]

PAD URL currently not able to open :

http://www.astv-tv.com/ (live PAD coverage, if still ongoing?)

Anyone else can open it?

Also doesn't open with proxy. Heavy traffic as many don't receive the channel.

[Plus]

NONE of the parties are interested in public participation

That's not true. There are calls for setting up a Constitution Drafting Assembly to represent all sectors of society, not just government MPs. Democrats are going to submit their own proposal on how to proceed with amendments regardless of what PPP is doing. Now there's a chance that their proposal will get more votes in Parlament than PPP's one.

I really hope that the government backs down and gets on with the job it has beed elected to do, if we need more street protests by PAD to achieve that, so be it.

They have been told numerous times not to push it, now it seems they got the message.

Samak apparently got it, Snoh got it, maybe even Thaksin got it. Let's see how far Newin and Co are going to go. Hopefully not very far.

[thaigene2]

There are calls for setting up a Constitution Drafting Assembly to represent all sectors of society, not just government MPs. Democrats are going to submit their own proposal on how to proceed with amendments regardless of what PPP is doing.

Where were they when a military dictatorship was pushing through a referendum on exactly the same issue. Collective amnesia??

[h90]

PAD URL currently not able to open :

http://www.astv-tv.com/ (live PAD coverage, if still ongoing?)

Anyone else can open it?

working now

[h90]

I saw when Sondi spoke a lot of black flags. Which moved away when Sondi went away. I got told thats a southern group, but not sure about it. does anyone know?

[nomoretalksin]

Imgage copyright/tks to -The Nation-

Oho, dangereous mobs destabalizing the economy?

Reuters:

New streets protests in Thailand hurt stability

read here (link just corrected now):

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssFinanci...lBrandChannel=0

Partial stupid title by reuters, nearly each time demonstrations go about in any market outside the western world market.

But as soon as a any demonstrations takes place in the West, they always start analyzing why the demonstrations take place in the first place and keep a good eye on the local politicians and current political activities.

But in Non-West (poorer) countries, "only the demonstrations + demonstrators" seam to be the cause of the political & economic unrest & the following market and investment slow-down or whatever coming, in that particular country.

And therefore the "main reason" and burden for the poor shareholders in the West.

Check google, they wrote the same 2 years ago. The Ecomomist, Financial Times will follow soon in the same line etc.

I'd like to ask and note, shouldn't it be more fair to have a title like

Current goverment provoke new streets protests in Thailand & hurt stability?

Edited May 27, 2008 by nomoretalksin

[nomoretalksin]

Just watched a good discussion on TOC!

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/

I understand now more how Thaksin,Samak & co want to amend the constitution.

Very stupid: They first want to hold a "referendum"

(2bn THB costs = for those Yes or No election) where all people in Thailand will simply answer following question:

"Do you want to amend the constitution yes or not?" and then as I understand later on via parlament, with the majority in the house for the Thaksin clan, will decide themselves, what they actually will amend, which as might be as following:

- bring back the banned 111 TRT

- drop all charges (or investigations) against Thaksin

- drop all election fraud charges by his proxies during last election

- remove the so badly needed check&balances mechnism brought in by the last Surayud goverment (after coup)

etc. etc.

Not a bit Banana-Republic (Burma) tactics and selfish act here?

Now I understand even more why the PAD are on the streets. Why spend 2bn THB for an election, if the details are not clear what the people are actually voting for?

Did I understand this correctly, or any errors in my (small) understanding of the ongoing events?

Edited May 27, 2008 by nomoretalksin