People's Alliance For Democracy To Renew Movement

[hammered]

It was nice to see Parinya, the founder of the White Ribbon group, ask why Thaksin is so afraid of the courts.

I agree this a fair and pertinent question.It's equally fair to debate exactly how disinterested (using that word in its correct meaning) the Thai court system is.It was also very refreshing to see Parinya acknowledge the ambiguity of the current situation -completely different from 1992 where the issues were stark-, acknowledging the PPP's electoral mandate and its strength of argument that the Charter is illegitimate coming as it does from a coup.Although I don't agree with Parinya on some issues it's very welcome to see a sophisticated political intelligence at work recognising nuance and shade.Too much debate nationally and on this forum has been at a simple minded level.It's a breath of fresh air to hear someone that doesn't just think in black and white terms.

Soon he won't have to worry anymore: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30074677

Interesting story which probably telegraphs the acceptance of the Thaksinistas that the courts are now a more likely vehicle for settling outstanding cases than erradication by constitution ammendment. As so many cases are still outstanding or have not yet reached court having your own in place on the justice ministry may well help. The attroney general is already onside and bizarrely if I rememeber correctly is actually a defendent in one case. The justice minister is also on side but it certainly helps to have your own civil servants with their hands on the pieces of paper. Interesting to see how things change.

[Plus]

I'm getting tired of this "nuance and shade" talk and wannabe "neutrals".

The crux of the matter is really simple - Thaksin should stand trial on corruption charges.

It was the same in 2005, 2006, 2007 and now 2008. The only change is his defence tactics - "I am an elected PM" in 2005, "I am a victim of a military coup" in 2006, "Let's have elections first" in 2007, "My party will change laws first" in 2008.

It's not about Thailand's class divide, not about regional divide, not about leftists, not about democracy, not about freedoms, not about coups, not about history, not about consitutions, not about PAD, elites, middle classes or people power. It's just a bunch of smokescreens put up by Thaksin in his fight to avoid prosecution.

He's got his fingers pointing in all directions to shift the blame, and hordes of mental masturbators feel obliged to explore his every excuse until cows come home, grab a spot of public attention, and call it "nuance and shades".

Anything but "let's put the bastard in court and get on with our lives" - too simplistic for them.

Even the abominable PPP government had an easy political ride until they brought Thaksin's agenda back on the table.

[younghusband]

I'm getting tired of this "nuance and shade" talk and wannabe "neutrals".

The crux of the matter is really simple - Thaksin should stand trial on corruption charges.

It was the same in 2005, 2006, 2007 and now 2008. The only change is his defence tactics - "I am an elected PM" in 2005, "I am a victim of a military coup" in 2006, "Let's have elections first" in 2007, "My party will change laws first" in 2008.

It's not about Thailand's class divide, not about regional divide, not about leftists, not about democracy, not about freedoms, not about coups, not about history, not about consitutions, not about PAD, elites, middle classes or people power. It's just a bunch of smokescreens put up by Thaksin in his fight to avoid prosecution.

He's got his fingers pointing in all directions to shift the blame, and hordes of mental masturbators feel obliged to explore his every excuse until cows come home, grab a spot of public attention, and call it "nuance and shades".

Anything but "let's put the bastard in court and get on with our lives" - too simplistic for them.

Even the abominable PPP government had an easy political ride until they brought Thaksin's agenda back on the table.

Leaving aside the personal abuse -mental masturbators etc - and ignoring the muddled thought processes, this rant does have a purpose in demonstrating the obsessive nature of those willing the destruction of Thaksin and his legacy, and the clear evidence they are consumed with hatred.(Yes, I do believe it's too simplistic to put the bastard in court and get on with our lives.)Even the most partisan critic must surely see that every political party has adopted key elements of the TRT programme, how Thaksin remains the most popular politician in the country and that any political grouping with his endorsement would win re-election.

The trouble is that these people appear to have limited understanding of historical context.It doesn't matter to them that the most distinguished commentators, both foreign and Thai, would regard the infantile thesis that Thailand's current problems are all about Thaksin as absurd.Even the most dense observer, and I would not include Plus in this category, understands that some form of power struggle between old and new is taking place, although one can argue about participants and motivation.What seems to galvanise Plus into this kind of spluttering nonsense is his impatience with any kind of rational analysis or even more worryingly suggestions that compromise might be in the country's interest

So quit chewing the carpet and argue your case properly if you want to be taken seriously.

[nomoretalksin]

I'm getting tired of this "nuance and shade" talk and wannabe "neutrals".

The crux of the matter is really simple - Thaksin should stand trial on corruption charges.

It was the same in 2005, 2006, 2007 and now 2008. The only change is his defence tactics - "I am an elected PM" in 2005, "I am a victim of a military coup" in 2006, "Let's have elections first" in 2007, "My party will change laws first" in 2008.

It's not about Thailand's class divide, not about regional divide, not about leftists, not about democracy, not about freedoms, not about coups, not about history, not about consitutions, not about PAD, elites, middle classes or people power. It's just a bunch of smokescreens put up by Thaksin in his fight to avoid prosecution.

He's got his fingers pointing in all directions to shift the blame, and hordes of mental masturbators feel obliged to explore his every excuse until cows come home, grab a spot of public attention, and call it "nuance and shades".

Anything but "let's put the bastard in court and get on with our lives" - too simplistic for them.

Even the abominable PPP government had an easy political ride until they brought Thaksin's agenda back on the table.

10/10 points for this outstanding point of view = the truth

you might wanna add

= 2004 = the money didn't belong to me it belong to my family

= 2003 = " it belong to my maid etc. etc. on and on

Thaksin has planned to hijack (his unbelievable arrogance, assuming his the savour and boss of Thailand)

Thailand since he got his connection (corrupt business) to sell his computers (under monopoly and pay outs) among the police.

Before most of his business with legal acts all failed. He only started to be successfull once his corruption tactics started to work.

Now his terrorizing Manchester City and Thailand further with his unhuman, very selfish and arrogant way off dealing with any thing, and dividiing most people in a pro and anti camp (the understanding and the non-understanding group). This man doesn't understand that he should not be involved in all those things as his short-minded, selfish (for his own pocket) ideas, don't benefit anyone, not even himselve (I mean look at this man, does he look like a happy fullfilled man?) It's not good for anyone, even worse for him, as one day, he will end up in jail (if not bailed out as usual all rich people can escape justice in TH, which I still don't understand here - This bail out for all?*).

I hope justice will prevail and his dream of becoming President in a Republic of Thailand (Jakrapob in the same line etc.) will never come true.

* Anyone know's what happened with those 3 EC-members which got their years of charges? They most have been bailed out meanwhile as well, right?

Edited June 4, 2008 by nomoretalksin

[Plus]

Even the most partisan critic must surely see that every political party has adopted key elements of the TRT programme, how Thaksin remains the most popular politician in the country and that any political grouping with his endorsement would win re-election.

So what? He should stand trial on corruption charges regardless of his popularity. But it gives people a thousand excuses to retire to dreamland and contemplate every social issue Thailand could possibly have. That's why I said "mental masturbators".

Thailand's current problems are all about Thaksin as absurd.

Thailand's current problems have nothing to do with Thaksin whatsoever. We have the economy - rising oil prices and inflation, and we have Southern insurgency. Instead we are forced to fight non-issues like rewriting consitution no one had a chance to use yet.

All other problems simply didn't exist for the first couple of months. They are mostly products of aforesaid mental masturbation. The coup was in the past, the junta was in the past, Isanese got the government they voted for, PPP tried to help them out and no one protested about anything, even PAD.

Now even PPP is forced to tell Newin to back off and leave them alone.

[younghusband]

Let's hypothetically assume Thaksin is out of the picture -tit cuk, dead, internal exile, in Manchester (same thing as being dead in my opinion).... whatever.No attempt then to change the junta's constitution or at least in ways that benefited Thaksin, or horror of horrors permit the Thai people to decide the matter through a referendum.There would however still be a power struggle in Thailand between old and new, and Thaksin was wittingly or not the catalyst.That's his significance.Some will say that once the paymaster is off the scene and his largesse is no longer available, that's the end of it.Those who understand history know otherwise.

[h90]

I'm getting tired of this "nuance and shade" talk and wannabe "neutrals".

The crux of the matter is really simple - Thaksin should stand trial on corruption charges.

It was the same in 2005, 2006, 2007 and now 2008. The only change is his defence tactics - "I am an elected PM" in 2005, "I am a victim of a military coup" in 2006, "Let's have elections first" in 2007, "My party will change laws first" in 2008.

It's not about Thailand's class divide, not about regional divide, not about leftists, not about democracy, not about freedoms, not about coups, not about history, not about consitutions, not about PAD, elites, middle classes or people power. It's just a bunch of smokescreens put up by Thaksin in his fight to avoid prosecution.

He's got his fingers pointing in all directions to shift the blame, and hordes of mental masturbators feel obliged to explore his every excuse until cows come home, grab a spot of public attention, and call it "nuance and shades".

Anything but "let's put the bastard in court and get on with our lives" - too simplistic for them.

Even the abominable PPP government had an easy political ride until they brought Thaksin's agenda back on the table.

You only see half of the game.

The other half is: how to get into power again and stay in power. It is not only the defence, it is also the attack. With the PPP in power it is already won 80 % just need to find a way to replace Samak with Thaksin later.

[marshbags]

quote name='Ijustwannateach' post='2012893' date='2008-06-02 18:03:39']I think it's well-known to those who have connections in the countryside here that people are 'told' by local 'influential types' (village headman, etc.) whom to vote for in exchange for 'considerations,' and though I suppose it's possible to opt out it certainly wouldn't be comfortable to do so in village culture. In that sense, at least, Thailand is far from a democracy no matter who 'wins'- though so are most of the countries which claim to be democracies

Are you accusing Thailand of degenerating to a US style pseudo-democracy whereby entire blocks of votes are determined by "influential types" such as union leaders and preachers?

You seem a bit mixed up with this 07

You must be the only poster on this forum who doesn't already acknowledge and accept that Thailands so called influencials " PUYAI " not only determine block votes but do so in a much bigger way on a mega basis.

Moo Bans and villages ect. ect. are incidently much more influencial vote on vote ( read block vote as in or else ), especially in the North, North East, whereby the PPP for example, paid mega bucks via their sponsor in chief Thaksin to enable the chaos we now have taking place and more of the same to come !!!!!!!

This in turn allowed them the position of being elected via the formation of the coalition misfits the Thai citizens / electorate are suffering at the present time.

Why would the Thai system adopt a US style system when they,ve already got one in place far superior to the one you refer to.

marshbags

[jumnien]

quote name='Ijustwannateach' post='2012893' date='2008-06-02 18:03:39']I think it's well-known to those who have connections in the countryside here that people are 'told' by local 'influential types' (village headman, etc.) whom to vote for in exchange for 'considerations,' and though I suppose it's possible to opt out it certainly wouldn't be comfortable to do so in village culture. In that sense, at least, Thailand is far from a democracy no matter who 'wins'- though so are most of the countries which claim to be democracies

Are you accusing Thailand of degenerating to a US style pseudo-democracy whereby entire blocks of votes are determined by "influential types" such as union leaders and preachers?

You seem a bit mixed up with this 07

You must be the only poster on this forum who doesn't already acknowledge and accept that Thailands so called influencials " PUYAI " not only determine block votes but do so in a much bigger way on a mega basis.

Moo Bans and villages ect. ect. are incidently much more influencial vote on vote ( read block vote as in or else ), especially in the North, North East, whereby the PPP for example, paid mega bucks via their sponsor in chief Thaksin to enable the chaos we now have taking place and more of the same to come !!!!!!!

This in turn allowed them the position of being elected via the formation of the coalition misfits the Thai citizens / electorate are suffering at the present time.

Why would the Thai system adopt a US style system when they,ve already got one in place far superior to the one you refer to.

marshbags

Don't worry; be happy; I agree with you completely. My post was in jest; I don't like the US system any more than you do!

[plachon]

I'm getting tired of this "nuance and shade" talk and wannabe "neutrals".

The crux of the matter is really simple - Thaksin should stand trial on corruption charges.

It was the same in 2005, 2006, 2007 and now 2008. The only change is his defence tactics - "I am an elected PM" in 2005, "I am a victim of a military coup" in 2006, "Let's have elections first" in 2007, "My party will change laws first" in 2008.

It's not about Thailand's class divide, not about regional divide, not about leftists, not about democracy, not about freedoms, not about coups, not about history, not about consitutions, not about PAD, elites, middle classes or people power. It's just a bunch of smokescreens put up by Thaksin in his fight to avoid prosecution.

He's got his fingers pointing in all directions to shift the blame, and hordes of mental masturbators feel obliged to explore his every excuse until cows come home, grab a spot of public attention, and call it "nuance and shades".

Anything but "let's put the bastard in court and get on with our lives" - too simplistic for them.

Even the abominable PPP government had an easy political ride until they brought Thaksin's agenda back on the table.

Leaving aside the personal abuse -mental masturbators etc - and ignoring the muddled thought processes, this rant does have a purpose in demonstrating the obsessive nature of those willing the destruction of Thaksin and his legacy, and the clear evidence they are consumed with hatred.(Yes, I do believe it's too simplistic to put the bastard in court and get on with our lives.)Even the most partisan critic must surely see that every political party has adopted key elements of the TRT programme, how Thaksin remains the most popular politician in the country and that any political grouping with his endorsement would win re-election.

The trouble is that these people appear to have limited understanding of historical context.It doesn't matter to them that the most distinguished commentators, both foreign and Thai, would regard the infantile thesis that Thailand's current problems are all about Thaksin as absurd.Even the most dense observer, and I would not include Plus in this category, understands that some form of power struggle between old and new is taking place, although one can argue about participants and motivation.What seems to galvanise Plus into this kind of spluttering nonsense is his impatience with any kind of rational analysis or even more worryingly suggestions that compromise might be in the country's interest

So quit chewing the carpet and argue your case properly if you want to be taken seriously.

Most of Thaksin's popularity rests on the fact that he hasn't been prosecuted for any of the crimes he is accused of (and many more awaiting the light of justice), and I believe would soon wither, should he have to face the music in a court of law (free of interference) and the Thai public are allowed to see him for the low down, thieving, scheming, self-serving, cowardly abuser of power and authority he is and has been for many years. And that's just his better nature!

Until he is put on trial, convicted and sentenced to a good long spell in jail (preferably a life sentence for his part in the War on Drugs), then Thailand is destined to be repeatedly at the mercy of leaders who think they are above the law and the size of your bank balance or sen is the only thing that matters. The historical context that is most important is the absence of a precedent in terms of paying the price through the justice system of abuse of position by a Prime Minister. By trying to continually deflect attention away from Thaksin's misdeeds, it is you who is hard to take seriously YH.

Edited June 4, 2008 by plachon

[jumnien]

On one hand, folks want to lynch the coup leaders (the same as those who killed innocent Thais in previous coups) and dismantle these ridiculous committees trying to prosecute everyone including Thaksin using laws they made up. On the other hand, some folks want to prosecute Thaksin for building a successful phone company and other crimes against humanity. But most folks want to see compromise. Let the coup leaders walk free and wine and dine with Thaksin as usual. This is the art of politics; compromise. This is where the middle path comes into play.

[marshbags]

Failed constitution amendment is a glaring evidence that on certain issues it doesn't any clout, even their own MPs declined to sign on.

From the last news, it seems that the democrats have agreed to join the government to study a constitution amendment. So the constitution will be amended, and it's a good thing.

It buys time. The Democrats have always said there are parts of the 06 constitution they would like to see amended. However, there are parts the PPP needs to have (i.e. Thaksin needs to have) that they are not in favor of. I doubt this is going to change.

At least they talk. That the way it should be, between elected representatives of the nation, around a table, not between hysterics goons in the street.

Without the PAD there would be no talk. The constituion would be 'amended' to fulfill the needs of the few. That is crystal clear.

Not only as K. Jean points out , but can you imagine what would have happened without the PAD.

Now the powers that be will know, they cannot run roughshod over what they see ( thought ) as gullible Thai electorate and will engage reality before considering further unlawfull, undemocratic moves that are contrary to the constitution in place

Let us remember it also afforded and facilitated the elections by which they themselves were put into power as the coalition government.

Thaksin would have just walked back into power, along with his TRT cronies in the not to distant future as was and is still their clear objective if the citizens sit back and allow them to.

Their spoils of war that were stolen from the countries assets would have also been restored to their bank accounts, along with the knowledge that much more was coming their way.

Law and order, democracy and just governance on behalf of the Thai people would have gone back to his days prior to being exiled and beyond.

The PAD did far more than the knockers give them credit far, much, much more.

marshbags

I comment on the assumption that their days of yester year are all but over and the politicians of that era are a spent force.

Should it not be the case, Thailand will deteriorate into an abyss and that,s another sad and tragic equation to consider.

Sadly much innocent blood will be spilled from those who truly have the countries interests at heart in between time.

Edited June 4, 2008 by marshbags

[younghusband]

sen[/i] is the only thing that matters. The historical context that is most important is the absence of a precedent in terms of paying the price through the justice system of abuse of position by a Prime Minister. By trying to continually deflect attention away from Thaksin's misdeeds, it is you who is hard to take seriously YH.

You are with respect mistaken plachon, and if you would like to check the record you will see that I have constantly emphasized that the war on drugs was Thaksin's worst crime.I do think he should be tried for this charge.Has it occurred to you however to wonder why he hasn't been charged with them instead of the relatively footling set of charges he does actually face?And if he did hypothetically face a life sentence what should be the sentence for some of the highest in the land who provided comfort and encouragement?The Nuremberg Trials experience is relevant precedent for the latter question.

In terms of leaders who are above the law don't forget Thaksin was legitimately elected by the Thai people and deposed by the illegal junta.

Edited June 4, 2008 by younghusband

[opengoal]

SET listed clients? Do you mean that?

Actually I don't disagree in terms of political risk that a stable environment is what is looked for.But in Thailand at any rate (to forestall some genius invoking the China precedent where conditions are different) while the faltering progress towards democracy has had its problems, the illegal junta put an unattractive spin on all the specific issues you mention.In Thailand the junta and its allies -including the feudalists/bureaucracy (unlike the Communists in China) are enemies of the open society and globalisation.Their interests are monopolies and a continuing larger share of a national cake that would grow smaller under ther anti-foreigner policies.That's why foreign investors don't like coups in Thailand or Bangkok mobs dictating policy to elected governments.Geddit now?

Put more simply.... Its the old money elite, who dont want foreign investment because given a level playing field they will all be out of business in ten years, against the 'new money' led by Mr Thaksin who wants foreign investment so he and his cronies can milk the farang business ( eg BTS and the new airport).

The 'old money' wants Thaksin out of the game now before we have a change at the helm. God forbid this never happens bcos then thaksin will fear nobody and the old elite will be running for cover.

This has nothing to do with the normal people of Thailand this is a fight between the ruling classes for total control. It does not matter who wins because the natives will still get sh1t on from a great height

Edited June 4, 2008 by opengoal

[samran]

SET listed clients? Do you mean that?

Actually I don't disagree in terms of political risk that a stable environment is what is looked for.But in Thailand at any rate (to forestall some genius invoking the China precedent where conditions are different) while the faltering progress towards democracy has had its problems, the illegal junta put an unattractive spin on all the specific issues you mention.In Thailand the junta and its allies -including the feudalists/bureaucracy (unlike the Communists in China) are enemies of the open society and globalisation.Their interests are monopolies and a continuing larger share of a national cake that would grow smaller under ther anti-foreigner policies.That's why foreign investors don't like coups in Thailand or Bangkok mobs dictating policy to elected governments.Geddit now?

Put more simply.... Its the old money elite, who dont want foreign investment because given a level playing field they will all be out of business in ten years, against the 'new money' led by Mr Thaksin who wants foreign investment so he and his cronies can milk the farang business ( eg BTS and the new airport).

The 'old money' wants Thaksin out of the game now before we have a change at the helm. God forbid this never happens bcos then thaksin will fear nobody and the old elite will be running for cover.

This has nothing to do with the normal people of Thailand this is a fight between the ruling classes for total control. It does not matter who wins because the natives will still get sh1t on from a great height

A very simplistic and incorrect view IMHO.

Most of the elite, whether they be pro-Thaksin or old ruling elite, in the main don't have a problem with foreign money. That is just my experience.

Where the resistance comes from to foreign participation is the grass roots, and the BKK left wing latte sippers and university "academics". It is one area where the political/ruling classes are very aware of when it comes to popular opinion, though in most cases, they'd love more of it. Most punters in Thailand equate foreign participation as 'selling the nation' rather than an investment to create value for all parties concerned. The idea of growing the pie to share more around is an alien concept.

One of the things that everyone forgets is that the straw that broke the camels back for Thaksin was his sale of Shin Corp to foreginers. That even had his grass roots "I'll take 200 baht for my vote" mob shaking their heads in disbeleif.

Fortunately (or unfortunately) the Thai electorate in the main has the political memory of a gold fish when it comes to indiscretions, so Thaksin will get away with it all.

[Plus]

Let's hypothetically assume Thaksin is out of the picture -tit cuk, dead, internal exile, in Manchester (same thing as being dead in my opinion).... whatever.No attempt then to change the junta's constitution or at least in ways that benefited Thaksin, or horror of horrors permit the Thai people to decide the matter through a referendum.There would however still be a power struggle in Thailand between old and new...

"Power struggle between old and new" would have as much credibility as Jakrapob's anti-patronage crusade that culminated in begging for protection from Chavalit.

There's no denying that they only threat to political stability comes from government looking after Thaksin's interests. Now they also have banned TRT execs hitched on the same wagon. That's about as complicated as it gets.

The rest is valuable on its own merits, leftists can keep forecasting their ridiculous rise of democracy and "new politics" under leadership of Samak and Chalerm, no one would take them seriously, as usual.

[thaigene2]

[ I see one side that wins popular elections and another side that uses coups and bullcrap les majiste charges. Gee, ya know, I'll lean toward the side that wins elections. ]

I fully agree with you. PAD is just continuing to divide the country and trying to cause another coup. I wonder if these PAD people hold down any serious jobs. I support democracy and free speech but these bored and bitter PAD protesters should move on and stop causing a divide.

The PAD may be only a tiny urban minority, but their tactics have proven very effective at inciting a military coup to overthrow the democratically elected government in the very recent past. I guess they think its worth a try again since they didn't get the result they hoped for at the last elections.

Their behaviour wouldn't be tolerated in any normal western democracy.

Sure wouldn't. As I said before, the only reason they're getting away with this is because they're well-connected. They're like the fat little bully on the playground constantly challenging everyone around him - even though he's a whimp. He gets away with it because everyime someone prepares to deliver him a knuckle sandwich, his big brother shows up with a snear on both faces. Ever wonder why the PAD chose the street in front of Army HQ?

That's no way to talk about Cheney and Bush.

Sure it is. Except the fat kid's having a heart attack at the same time!

[thaigene2]

Article 309 includes a wide-reaching amnesty and approval for the main participants in the 2006 coup.

Obviously this is crucial to Thailand's democracy and explains why PAD - whose actions may appear to be those of left-wing nuts- must stage its protests against any move to change the constituition.

Oh dear. Not sure of the difference in Left vs Right? Now who's Left ? The Coup Makers and their "backers"? Are you serious? They are backing the elite wealthy establishment. Wow..

[thaigene2]

..in a Western democracy it would be unthinkable for a whole party to be dissolved...

In a Western Democracy it's unthinkable that Speaker of the House would gather state officials and openly bribe them to force people to vote for his party.

In a Western Democracy it's unthinkable that anyone could NOT discuss the PATRONAGE SYSTEM openly. But you know, this is not a Western Democracy. As for your friend h90 - how old are you? Are you old enough to drive a motorcycle - or a Benz? just wondering.

[h90]

..in a Western democracy it would be unthinkable for a whole party to be dissolved...

In a Western Democracy it's unthinkable that Speaker of the House would gather state officials and openly bribe them to force people to vote for his party.

In a Western Democracy it's unthinkable that anyone could NOT discuss the PATRONAGE SYSTEM openly. But you know, this is not a Western Democracy. As for your friend h90 - how old are you? Are you old enough to drive a motorcycle - or a Benz? just wondering.

yeah I guess I can drive a motorcycle but didn't try a benz yet.

well with that point you are right, but for example in germany and austria you can't discuss some second worldwar things without going into jail. Which is the same wrong as the thai censorship. But it does not has anything to do with openly bribe people which is something complete different. you start like your sunrise friend to change the topic if you have no answer.

[jumnien]

..in a Western democracy it would be unthinkable for a whole party to be dissolved...

In a Western Democracy it's unthinkable that Speaker of the House would gather state officials and openly bribe them to force people to vote for his party.

In a Western Democracy it's unthinkable that anyone could NOT discuss the PATRONAGE SYSTEM openly. But you know, this is not a Western Democracy. As for your friend h90 - how old are you? Are you old enough to drive a motorcycle - or a Benz? just wondering.

yeah I guess I can drive a motorcycle but didn't try a benz yet.

well with that point you are right, but for example in germany and austria you can't discuss some second worldwar things without going into jail. Which is the same wrong as the thai censorship. But it does not has anything to do with openly bribe people which is something complete different. you start like your sunrise friend to change the topic if you have no answer.

Who openly bribed who? How much money was involved? These are ridiculous accusations by a desparate loser!

[Pierrot]

There's no denying that they only threat to political stability comes from government looking after Thaksin's interests. Now they also have banned TRT execs hitched on the same wagon. That's about as complicated as it gets.

The rest is valuable on its own merits, leftists can keep forecasting their ridiculous rise of democracy and "new politics" under leadership of Samak and Chalerm, no one would take them seriously, as usual.

Are you now accusing the business community of communism ????

Getting desesperate, are we ???

[AGareth2]

If selling Shin Corp was the straw that broke the camel's back, please explain why the grass roots then elected his nominee?

A lot of these posts are not worthy of comment!

[Plus]

There's no denying that they only threat to political stability comes from government looking after Thaksin's interests. Now they also have banned TRT execs hitched on the same wagon. That's about as complicated as it gets.

The rest is valuable on its own merits, leftists can keep forecasting their ridiculous rise of democracy and "new politics" under leadership of Samak and Chalerm, no one would take them seriously, as usual.

Are you now accusing the business community of communism ????

Business community will get along nicely with any government - Democrats, TRT, PPP. The current "democratic" government doesn't appear to inspire too much confidence in business circles, though.

Again, you can discuss their reaction to finally putting Thaksin on trial, I seriously doubt they would opppose it. They don't give a <deleted> about him, they've got their own business to attend to.

But, as a red herring, comparing businessmen to communists would provide a nice background for another round of virtual wanking.

Get the man into the court and get on with your lives, take care of the rest when the need arises. It's that simple.

[jumnien]

There's no denying that they only threat to political stability comes from government looking after Thaksin's interests. Now they also have banned TRT execs hitched on the same wagon. That's about as complicated as it gets.

The rest is valuable on its own merits, leftists can keep forecasting their ridiculous rise of democracy and "new politics" under leadership of Samak and Chalerm, no one would take them seriously, as usual.

Are you now accusing the business community of communism ????

Business community will get along nicely with any government - Democrats, TRT, PPP. The current "democratic" government doesn't appear to inspire too much confidence in business circles, though.

Again, you can discuss their reaction to finally putting Thaksin on trial, I seriously doubt they would opppose it. They don't give a <deleted> about him, they've got their own business to attend to.

But, as a red herring, comparing businessmen to communists would provide a nice background for another round of virtual wanking.

Get the man into the court and get on with your lives, take care of the rest when the need arises. It's that simple.

As I've said before, getting Thaksin into court to face charges of building a telecommunications empire and getting the military junta perpetrators into court for treason is simply not going to happen.

[Plus]

Thaksin should be brought to court without pre-conditions. Each offence and each offender should be judged on their own. There's no place for kindergarten level excuses - "I won't do it until Jacky is punished for throwing her toys two days ago, too."

Otherwise there will be no end to it.

[younghusband]

Thaksin should be brought to court without pre-conditions. Each offence and each offender should be judged on their own. There's no place for kindergarten level excuses - "I won't do it until Jacky is punished for throwing her toys two days ago, too."

Otherwise there will be no end to it.

Though the charges lodged against Thaksin are trivial compared to the treason committed by the junta, he should have his day in court.I've been looking conscientously but I can't find any scheduled trial date for the responsible generals.

Your colouful references to mental wanking etc simply serve to disguse your detachment from reality.For all his faults -and I have some sympathy with the view that along with many meglomaniac types he is barking mad -no serious observer doubts the vendetta against Thaksin has broader implications in a struggle for power.Don't insult my intelligence by insisting there is no context in all this.

[Johpa]

You are with respect mistaken plachon, and if you would like to check the record you will see that I have constantly emphasized that the war on drugs was Thaksin's worst crime.I do think he should be tried for this charge.Has it occurred to you however to wonder why he hasn't been charged with them instead of the relatively footling set of charges he does actually face?

Just a reminder that the "war on drug's" was one of Thaksin's most popular decisions amongst Thais, especially amongst the rural Thais who had suffered the most from the yaa baa plague that had been allowed to fester into an outright pandemic by previous administrations. It is true that some police used the campaign to settle some personal scores, but the Thai police never really needed a war on drugs to unilaterally use their power and position to settle such personal scores and those types of crimes continue. Although it is nearly impossible for a westerner, including myself, to condone the actions taken, it did succeed in removing the drugs from both the upper grades of the elementary schools as well as, to a slightly lesser extent, remove the drugs from the high schools. From a Thai perspective the "crimes" committed were more than offset by the positive benefits to the communities and thus he will not face any charges on this matter, only accolades.

[mbkudu]

Thaksin was the best thing that ever happened to Thailand. Too much of a good thing had to be removed.

[nomoretalksin]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/...City-dream.html

Quote(s) - click above to read all:

EXCLUSIVE: Dr Thaksin gives an amazing insight into his City dream

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/articl...to=newsnow&

1. "What about the reports of almost 3,000 killings in an aggressive offensive against drugs?"

Reply by Dr. Thaksin:

"Sometimes, as a leader you must have an angry face.

'These figures you have read are not true. They are figures created by the

military. I was not a ruthless dictator. No. There have been investigations:

The Premier League, for example, has ways of investigating these matters, I

welcomed the Fit and Proper Persons Test for new owners for that reason.'

or

2. He has survived three car bomb attacks and six assassination attempts. 'I

should be a man who drives around in a nice sports car, not an armoured

car,' he adds with a smile.

Read more football and political point of views, by Khun Dr. Thaksin - just a view days ago:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/articl...to=newsnow&

Your views after reading all this interview?