What I Would Tell My Administration

[nomade]

Agree and disagree on that one. Learning a foreign language is good because it makes you, as a teacher, realise how tough it is for the learners to remember stuff. On the other hand being fluent in the learners' language is not always a good thing IMO.

I'm totally bilingual in French now but I was crap at French at school. I only really started learning correctly when I went to the Alliance Française in Paris and sat in a class with people from about 10 other countries. The only common language was French and we had a brilliant teacher who repeated and repeated and repeated until we were ready to move on to the next stage. Must have been as boring as ###### for him but we learnt almost effortlessly and after about two months of daily lessons we could start communicating effectively. Compare that to my French teacher at school who spoke perfect English and didn't teach me a thing in 6 years.

[PeaceBlondie]

hmmmm. reading though the thread here it seems to me that english teachers cant speak thai, now obviously being an english teacher means u have basically reached the apex of the english language.

so why cant you learn to speak thai? have all english teachers lost the ability to learn another language? are they really proper teachers?or maybe in previous times they had low end jobs with low qualifications like shelf stackers at the local mart, or low civil servant jobs like in the tax dept, i just cant understand why these supposedly highly qualified and supposedly intelligent teachers cannot learn to speak the local language.

learning thai isnt that hard

You're right; my job in the tax department was so low that I made it to GS-12 and made adjustments to small taxpayers such as Mobil Oil.

The ability of a native speaker of English to learn Thai is not related to their ability to teach EFL in Thailand. I nearly mastered Spanish, but its vocabulary and grammar are similar enough to English that it was far easier to learn than Thai is. Furthermore, one can live and work professionally in Thailand without being fluent in Thai.

No, I haven't lost my abilities [smyth], and I'm a proper teacher, in these circumstances here, although I'm not very highly qualified. Our viewers here can decide whether my English abilities are as good as yours are.

[igotworms]

20. Do not force your foreign teachers to attend religous ceremonies on public holidays. Though many would happily oblige, others might not look too kindly on such matters. Perhaps, such events should be optional.

[BKKfreddy]

No, I haven't lost my abilities [smyth], and I'm a proper teacher, in these circumstances here, although I'm not very highly qualified. Our viewers here can decide whether my English abilities are as good as yours are.

aahhhh, but im not an english teacher

[kenkannif]

No, I haven't lost my abilities [smyth], and I'm a proper teacher, in these circumstances here, although I'm not very highly qualified. Our viewers here can decide whether my English abilities are as good as yours are.

Not Smyth (he won't get on here), rather our old mate DD methinks! Be a good doggy please!

[Ijustwannateach]

We're a bit off topic here.

I'd expand your point, Worms-

"If you insist on having your teachers work on the most important religious holidays of the year for them (Christmas, Rosh Hashanah, whatever) at least have the common sense to realize they will not be happy about it- especially do not expect them to lead some sort of bizarre costume pageant on the event- least of all should they be expected to dress up as Santa on a day when they are missing their own families the most. Would you be happy if you were working abroad and your school insisted you hold a big festival for the students at work on Thai New Year?"

21. Foreign teachers [especially non-TEFL subjects] are not trained in the writing of cheers, the singing of English songs, or the playing of group games on a bus trip. While it is not entirely impossible for, say, a math teacher to think of a festive game or an English song, these kinds of requests will not go down well at the last minute with no prior warning [i.e. everyone is on the bus- "Ajarn Steven will now lead us in an English song." Oh, no, he won't.

"Steven"

[brianbrain]

11.  If you keep all your windows and emergency exit doors padlocked except during drills, what will you do during a genuine emergency?  [And you haven't forgotten about fire extinguishers, hoses, and alarms, now, have you?]

What drills? You must work in a classy school.

[Pudgimelon]

16. If you don't know what your school's curriculum is, how are the foreigner teachers going to know it?

Amen.

Could we get that printed out on a billboard on Vibhavadi Rangsit? I'll foot the electric bill to keep the lights on until 10:30PM, just to make sure all the admins see it on their way out to their favorite karaoke bar.

[Ijustwannateach]

11.  If you keep all your windows and emergency exit doors padlocked except during drills, what will you do during a genuine emergency?  [And you haven't forgotten about fire extinguishers, hoses, and alarms, now, have you?]

What drills? You must work in a classy school.

Well, 3 schools that I've worked here have had fire drills, but 1 of them was just a regular government Matthayom- that was more in the way of practice in the use of a fire extinguisher, though, than a drill.

"Steven"

22. If your school is on break and there are no serious duties for your farang teachers, it's a wise administrative decision to turn a blind eye to their being frequently absent. Heck, it'd be a wise administrative decision to turn a blind eye to your THAI employees being frequently absent at such times! Why the heck do you want to keep all those people sitting at those desks all day long pretending they have something to do? It's not like you're paying them that much (the Thais) and the farang will work MUCH harder for you during school weeks (and possibly re-sign contracts) if they know they have the extra vacation time.

[Ijustwannateach]

23. As mentioned before, Thai teachers and foreign teachers are in 2 different markets. As it happens, the foreign teachers' market is a *teachers'* market (economically speaking- as opposed to an employers' market). Whether you're willing to believe it or not, there are far more schools that would like to employ a minimally experienced, reliable English teacher than there are such teachers available as employees. This means that if your school offers ONLY AVERAGE conditions to potential employees, logic dictates that you will receive LESS THAN AVERAGE acceptance of your job offers by minimally qualified candidates, as the better teachers move up the demand curve where they should be. In other words- pay peanuts, get monkeys. This effect is even more exaggerated for subject teachers or those with other specialized qualifications.

24. Corollary: Your Thai employees may have to suck up anything you dish out, but if you do not seem open to negotiation, the farang teachers will vote on your style the only way they can- with their feet. It would be better to do a little negotiation and find out what your employees want BEFORE they feel motivated to find other jobs, wouldn't it?

"Steven"

[Rhys]

The Thai system does not care.. they will just get someone else.. They will make the face change.. Quality... hmm.. if they new what it was.. PLUS..the Directors.. some have a good concept of language instruction and know how to deal with western teachers...

BUT we all have had the BUTT HEAD Director... just experience.

AND yes..If you don't like LEAVE.. NO HARM NO FOUL... as the Thais Say it is up to you.. So go do... OUTTA DODGE FOR GOOD..

[Ijustwannateach]

^Forgetting for a moment that you're being a troll- what good does your advice do? "If you don't like it, leave?" Be a quitter! Gosh, what good advice.

I presume you are a Thai school manager or something? [because English is certainly not your native language]. I suppose it threatens you that it's a teachers' market? Good!

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

This thread's been idle for awhile, but I came up with another one:

25. The function of teachers is to teach. They are not choirmasters, janitors, maids, errand boys, or website designers. While they may have talents in these directions which on occasion can contribute to your school's performance, you should regard their employment of these skills as gracious teamplay, not a job requirement. To that end:

a. Hire your own d*** custodians. See above point about paying for your own overhead. It doesn't work to let the bathrooms get dirtier and dirtier, and the teachers are NOT going to clean them for you.

b. If you have some office work which you think the teacher might be able to do, and you ask nicely, and the teacher doesn't have any other duties to perform, then it may OCCASIONALLY be expected that the teacher helps out. This doesn't mean you have a new English-speaking secretary/director of human resources.

c. Singalongs/choruses should only be led by those who really, really want to do so. Expecting teachers to have any musical talent and requiring them to use it on the job is very rude unless they are enthusiastic about volunteering.

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

25.  The function of teachers is to teach.  They are not choirmasters, janitors, maids...., a.  Hire your own d*** custodians.  See above point about paying for your own overhead.  It doesn't work to let the bathrooms get dirtier and dirtier, and the teachers are NOT going to clean them for you.

......

"Steven"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To an extent, yes. It's considered demeaning for a real Thai ajarn to clean the incredibly dustry chalk rail or the chalk erasers, or to clean that filthy refrigerator top, etc. So I give the kids and the 'housewives' time to do their job, and then I do it myself occasionally, just to prove a point. Then when a real Thai ajarn says "Oh, that's not a job for ajarns," I try to think of something clever to say. Such as 'Oh, they do it during Songkran.'

[Rhys]

Grasshooper, when you can snatch the teaching/administrating/leading pebble from your THAI PAW AWH.. then it is time for you to leave.. UNTIL then.. PARTY ON DUDE..ROCK ON

[Ijustwannateach]

Rhys, your posts on this thread are bizarre... that's not necessarily bad, just strange!

"Steven"

[The_Moog]

<Your comments are unwelcome...KK>

Edited January 16, 2005 by kenkannif

[Ijustwannateach]

^Don't know what your hangup is, Moog, but it's probably not welcome here.

"Steven"

[Herby]

Hi first time on this site thanks to my big brother (soon to move to your neck of the woods, what I need to find out is - My wife and I are both qualified teachers with centre approval (city and Guilds) to deliver levels 1. 11. 111. in Hospitality, Teaching awards and Assessor awards, we are also approved to deliver Higher Level Qualifications that could lead to an Honers, who do we contact thanks Herby

Edited January 16, 2005 by kenkannif

[PeaceBlondie]

Hi first time on this site thanks to my big brother (soon to move to your neck of the woods, what I need to find out is - My wife and I are both qualified teachers with centre approval (city and Guilds) to deliver levels 1. 11. 111. in Hospitality, Teaching awards and Assessor awards, we are also approved to deliver Higher Level Qualifications that could lead to an Honers, who do we contact thanks Herby

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Herby, in addition to the fact that your post, above, has already been edited by a moderator, I'd like to point out that you've already started a thread on this issue separately, and your brother did an even better job.

Kenk, might you delete this post and about five more directly above, so we can either get on with the topic or close it without destroying it? Thanks.

[Ijustwannateach]

I'm running out of steam even on the endless topic of problems in Thai administrations- but we *have* gone over a lot of the *types* of problems here, so maybe we've covered them. I'm hoping to edit and recombine all the suggestions into one long document/article/post at sometime shortly in the future.

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

One last thought, perhaps, if it wasn't covered somewhere here already:

RESPECT: If you say you respect ajarns, pay them a living wage, give them translators, give them academic calendars, don't cancel classes at a moment's notice, keep them informed, etc. All of this (to the farang's point of view, culturally, WHICH YOU SHOULD RESPECT AND I KNOW I'M SHOUTING) to the farang teacher means you respect their work. Lack of doing these things is as much of an insult as if the teacher shoved his foot in your mouth.

[mbkudu]

Hi first time on this site thanks to my big brother (soon to move to your neck of the woods, what I need to find out is - My wife and I are both qualified teachers with centre approval (city and Guilds) to deliver levels 1. 11. 111. in Hospitality, Teaching awards and Assessor awards, we are also approved to deliver Higher Level Qualifications that could lead to an Honers, who do we contact thanks Herby

Herby, in addition to the fact that your post, above, has already been edited by a moderator, I'd like to point out that you've already started a thread on this issue separately, and your brother did an even better job.

Kenk, might you delete this post and about five more directly above, so we can either get on with the topic or close it without destroying it? Thanks.

He has created two other threads saying the same thing. I think we got the idea that you are looking for a job. Why not go to Dave's ESL Cafe or Ajarn.com and look there.

[PeaceBlondie]

Okay, maybe all of the following has already been said on this thread, but count it as my end-of-year rant:

Native speaking programs such as MEP or EP require much more advance planning, and far more coordination between departments, administrators, etc., than a regular program in a Thai school requires. This is due in great part to the foreign teacher (‘farang’). Most farang teachers are verbally oriented, and they expect to be actively and productively involved in two-way dialogue with their boss and their co-workers, as appropriate. Their opinions may be wrong or unwanted, but the farang want their written or spoken words to be read and heard (such as these words here). Due to cultural differences and language barriers, the school won’t get its money’s worth out of the farang’s salary if the school doesn’t communicate regularly and in a meaningful way with the teacher.

The following examples of communication should include the principal people involved in the program, including departments other than the Foreign Language Department, on up to the director and assistants.

Before classes begin, the native teacher should receive the following. It should all be written in clear English for each segment of the teacher’s assigned work. Farang are usually very serious about their professional work, and they think it’s good to be well organized:

A. A full one year course outline, with dates that are accurate within seven days. When do classes start and end in each semester? When are the teacher’s long holiday periods, mid-term and end-term exam dates? The farang probably has to schedule visa runs, family visits, etc. that a Thai citizen would never have to do. Farang must do this, and it requires precise advance planning. Don’t be surprised if the farang is inflexible about this; it’s more important than Thai food.

B.Names, nicknames, and phone number(s) of the Thai teachers that the farang needs to be in contact with. Each semester, provide an accurate academic schedule of these teachers (including times and room numbers, of course).

C. A curriculum or syllabus that clearly describes what subject material must be covered, and what things will be covered on the final exam for that subject. It must be in clear English. It cannot be in Thai, or some crazy attempt at translation.

D. Textbooks and workbooks for the entire year that will be issued to the students. Also, any teacher’s books that are in English.

E. For entire year, or at least for one month in advance, student worksheets that students will use in class. Don’t expect the farang to help you translate next Monday’s worksheet on Friday.

F. Job description that explains what the foreign teacher does or doesn’t do. To whom he reports (bosses). Who to go to with problems (yes, farang will come to you with problems because they think that’s how problems are solved. You can’t change this cultural tendency; it’s hard-wired into farang brains until they die or get Altzheimer’s). Who to call when he can’t get to work today. Who to ask for a day off, such as for a visa run because the school didn’t help him to get the proper documentation (yes, it’s the school’s fault sometimes, and the farang expects you to openly or silently admit that).

G. Emergency data: what to do if the building is on fire, or Pongsakorn jumps out the third story window. How to handle extreme discipline cases (which Director or Assistant Director gets to explain to Nattaphon that he can’t undress in class? Where is that administrator’s office, and his mobile number so he or she can come get Nattaphon?). Where the clinic is. Where a farang teacher can urinate or defecate, preferably with a Western, sit-down toilet.

H. An explantion of the teacher’s scope of professional responsibilities – what he will or won’t be blamed for or praised for. Farang expect you to tell them when they do good or bad, what’s important (such as eating at faculty luncheons) and what’s more or less mai bpen rai (academic standards?).

I. Information about supplies. Chalk, whiteboard markers, paper, computers and printers that actually work most of the time. Where to get more. What to do if there aren’t any. Seriously. Really, farangs don’t take the same things as “mai bpen rai” as you do.

J. Start your contract negotiations for the next school year before the current term ends (such as late January if the new term starts in mid-May). The farang gets nervous, and will find another school if you wait too long. Foreigners may expect some improvements in their contract if they’ve done a good job: a small salary increase; twelve months’ pay instead of ten; reduced contact hours; or being promised they’ll have significant input into certain phases of the program. They may expect teacher’s license, work permit, and the right kind of help to get the right kind of visa. Don’t treat British and Canadians as you might treat illegal Burmese or Laotians.

K.Finally: if your school thinks the above suggestions aren’t serious or important, and your response amounts to ‘mai bpen rai,’ your EP or MEP will fail, and it will be YOUR fault, not the farang’s fault. And before you say, "This is Thailand, not the West, look at what the letter "E" stands for in EP and MEP. It's a bicultural and bilingual program, not just Thai-Thai. Thank you for your attention.

[Ijustwannateach]

heh heh heh -good one, PB!

[DerringDo]

Thanks to ijustwannateach and PB.

All the little problems i've experienced in Thailand nicely summed up in one thread.

Sometimes this mai bpen rai stuff is useful but in almost all cases you are delaying the inevitable confrontation, and it always starts over something we in the west think is normal.

[Ijustwannateach]

There were a lot of good points and posts on this thread, and it should also be bumped up for hiring season. Beware the minefield that is Thai education!

I'll even add a new point, though I have no idea now what number it was:

N. If a foreign teacher instructs a student to behave in a certain manner, even if it is not exactly what you as a Thai teacher would do, do NOT let your Thai teachers undermine his authority by countermanding him directly in front of the student. The student must obey the teacher (in reasonable measure). If you object to the foreign teacher's methods, speak to him about it AFTERWARDS, PRIVATELY, AWAY from any students to resolve this issue.

[Ijustwannateach]

I was supposed to make a summarised list of these things at some point- perhaps that's a project for the new term. Anyway, bumped for the benefit of job hunters.

[Ijustwannateach]

bumped again for the same reason!

[robitusson]

What I Would Tell My Administration, If I Could Do It Without Being Fired? You're a big poo-poo head and a smelly yukky!

Edited March 4, 2006 by robitusson