Midnight Closings

[LivinLOS]

more farang family oriented holidays=a less salacious tourist industry with greater revenues, more pleaseant place for thais & farangs to live & work...

I strongly dissagree with this if you mean sex-pats and single male tourists on a 1:1 basis v family holidayers on a 1:1 basis...

Firstly sex-pats, single male holiday travellers, offshore workers, etc spend LARGE amounts of cash fast 10k baht in a night no problem, seen guys spend 40k in one bar ringing the bell and whoping it up like a sailor on shore leave. Ofshore workers especially go away make big bucks in short periods and then come and R&R and dont care how they blow it.. Lets face it in all aspects of the economy single males prior to settling down (18 - 35 perhaps) are the largest cash rich demographic out there (this is elementary marketing / economics and not really disputable) I think perhaps there may be a maturity gap that fits some sex pats and staying single longer (than in the west or thier home country) may be a reality also...

Secondly when sex-pats spend thier money it is spent directly into the local economy, they tend to stay in guesthouses rather than larger or chain hotels, they eat in local run resturants, drink in the local bars, and (god forbid) give money to the local girls. The couples and families that come, tend to stay in a large chain hotel or package holiday and eat the vast majority of thier meals etc within that place. This means that the larger % of the profit remains in the hands of a few very rich people who control those hotels and destinations. Of course thier is a small trickle down effect in employing some people but they are generally paid local employee wage rates rather than benefiting as entreprenours from the small business patronisation of the sex pat.

Lastly without wanting to sound too down much of 'Seen Thailand' is rapidly getting to the state of overdevelopment. Phuket definately is starting to get to the stage where families may well start to find more appealing places worldwide for thier hotel / beach vacation.. Even 'new places' like Ko Lak are turning into massive rows of vacant cheaply made shophouses with the effect that they may well kill thier tourist dollar before it even arrives in numbers.. Krabi / Samui / Etc all seem to be following the same recipe though my eyes say at a slightly slower pace. For a 'family' destination much of Thailand is woefully short of wholesome activities and amienties that appeal to families.

You see them all the time on Phuket walking around with nothing more to spend thier money on than a 100 baht batik sarong and perhaps an elephant ride / trip to Phi Phi or similar, so they stay on the beach near thier hotel or by the hotel pool and order drinks from room service.. Contrast that with the sex pat on a 10 day vacation whoping it up and literally pouring his money away and I know for sure which one benefits the economy directly and gets money into local hands.

[LivinLOS]

in fact some of my best friends are katoeys, as you will find out when my book is published next spring... they (katoeys) are pehaps the saddest of all sex workers in thailand...

Is that a joke re the book ?? If not drop me a PM as I have some publishing questions I may like to run your way...

As to the comment I agree with you.. Ostracisation by families, the confused sexuality of some of their customers, etc etc..

Cant think of a tougher dollar.

[marquess]

QUOTE (Insight @ Fri 2004-09-24, 17:37:09)

QUOTE (Harry Palmer @ Fri 2004-09-24, 17:34:24)

i have a dream... & it is the mission of the H.P.L.F to see that it does come to pass & the duty of every responsible law abiding & respectable farang in the kingdon to support our efforts...

You're gay. 

we in the H.P.L.F don't discriminate against gay people...

in fact some of my best friends are katoeys, as you will find out when my book is published next spring... they (katoeys) are pehaps the saddest of all sex workers in thailand

[/i]please try and stick to the topic.

[ParrotHead]

I know that I save a lot of money going home early....

J Buffet would be ashamed of you.

Tequilla!!!

Tis cheaper to drink from the bottle than from the bar. At least at home it's still 5 o'clock.

[ParrotHead]

as you will find out when my book is published next spring...

Oh goodie! Another book by the self-rightous who spend too much time in tourist towns. Ya know, places like that will rot your brain and give you a warped perspective on reality. Tourist towns always attract the worst elements of society, and promote the worst behavior in visiters. So, of course, it is easy to sit on your high horse and judge the evil. But your posts tend to over generalize and steriotype, (which is good bait for replies), which makes me loose any respect for them.

[ParrotHead]

Harry, perhaps Thailand DOES need a Disney Land! But then I know few families who will fly half way around the world to see it. There are plenty of family oriented places to go in their home countries. Of course, it would be GREAT for the Thai tourists, and once the market gets around to realising there is profit in children's spending habits (which of course is HUGE!), there will be places made for them. But there will also be many horny daddys who want that holiday special massage..."I'm on Holiday! blah blah blah" - and there will always be a demand for that.

Hey, at least most temples are still sanitary.

[Harry Palmer]

Hey, at least most temples are still sanitary.

uhmmmm. but are they.... what about the recent gay monk revelations?

[ParrotHead]

uhmmmm. but are they.... what about the recent gay monk revelations?

mmmm, I might know of some Cathloic priests who would be interested in this... very interested indeed....

[Indo-Siam]

It is hilarious to me to see sex tourists bemoaning the impending collapse of Bangkok's tourist industry based upon a 60 minute (or 90,or 120 minutes) change is bar closing times.

Hard core sex tourists are maybe 0.5% of tourists, they interact with mybe 0.1% of Thailand, and all the money they spend combined is maybe 0.5% of tourist spending. I made up the numbers - who really knows.

But - I didn't make up this: http://www.travelandleisure.com/worldsbest....cfm?cat=cities

Bangkok is the #1 tourist destination in Asia - period. #4 in the world. Based on 2004 status. Who says? Well, T&L isn't God - but they are a fairly mainstraem, center of mass publication.

Places that serve drinks along Silom and Sukhumvit aren't even 0.01% of Bangkok's economic activity - much less Thailand's. Just because it is where you hang out, don't kid yourself that it is macro-significant.

If they literally shut down Soi Cowboy, Nana, and Patpong I and II tonight - permamently - I would hazard a guess that it would be completely invisible for 4th Qtr Thailand tourist numbers, comparing 2003 and 2004. That's how totally insignificant this sector is - at national, or even city level.

It matters a lot to individual bar owners, go-go dancers, cashers, touts, and policemen on the take. But places recover - from lots worse impacts - take a look at Beruit.

So, for all the horny guys weeping their Singhas - time for you to slither on over to Phnom Penh, or Angeles City, or wherever. Bangkok doesn't want you anymore. You said it first, and I agree with you.

I'm looking forward in a continuing improvement in the quality of life in Thailand- lengthening life expectancies, higher average educational levels, improiving healthcare, ever-increasing average wage levels. 'Yup, goin' to ###### in a handbasket.

'Get a clue.

Indo

[Coffee Dude]

It is hilarious to me to see sex tourists bemoaning the impending collapse of Bangkok's tourist industry based upon a 60 minute (or 90,or 120 minutes) change is bar closing times.

Hard core sex tourists are maybe 0.5% of tourists, they interact with mybe 0.1% of Thailand, and all the money they spend combined is maybe 0.5% of tourist spending.  I made up the numbers - who really knows.

But - I didn't make up this:  http://www.travelandleisure.com/worldsbest....cfm?cat=cities

Bangkok is the #1 tourist destination in Asia - period.  #4 in the world.  Based on 2004 status.  Who says?  Well, T&L isn't God - but they are a fairly mainstraem, center of mass publication.

Places that serve drinks along Silom and Sukhumvit aren't even 0.01% of Bangkok's economic activity - much less Thailand's.  Just because it is where you hang out, don't kid yourself that it is macro-significant.

If they literally shut down Soi Cowboy, Nana, and Patpong I and II tonight - permamently - I would hazard a guess that it would be completely invisible for 4th Qtr Thailand tourist numbers, comparing 2003 and 2004.  That's how totally insignificant this sector is - at national, or even city level.

It matters a lot to individual bar owners, go-go dancers, cashers, touts, and policemen on the take.  But places recover - from lots worse impacts - take a look at Beruit.

So, for all the horny guys weeping their Singhas - time for you to slither on over to Phnom Penh, or Angeles City, or wherever.  Bangkok doesn't want you anymore.  You said it first, and I agree with you.

I'm looking forward in a continuing improvement in the quality of life in Thailand- lengthening life expectancies, higher average educational levels, improiving healthcare, ever-increasing average wage levels.  'Yup,  goin' to ###### in a handbasket.

'Get a clue.

Indo

I'm not in the Bar or lady business, but, a 2 hour change now comes shortly after a 2pm curfue was made ?3 years ago? In comparison New Orleans gets a lot more business than the rest of Louisiana, I believe, because it is the only city in the state that doesn't close at 2am. It parties all night and all day if you want. But there, like here, you can find many other things to do (and spend your money on) once you arrive.

You are probably correct in assuming that the actual #baht that is spent directly in the nightlife industry is a small percentage of the money spent overall. That is a good thing, as long as it is spent diversely among small businesses and entrepeneurs.

Governement policies all over the world tend to support targetted financial gain. This would eliminate many opportunities for the Thai people, and others living here, from having a CHANCE to earn an honest living with a lifestyle/income ceiling that is determined by drive, effort, and forthought as opposed to minimum wage laws.

But all of the tourist money, where ever it's spent, has to come in for a reason. I have to say I don't think people will come half way around the world to see some temples...Maybe...Angkor..once...and a people who appear to be increasingly less welcoming...but "Sin Capitol of the World"??? Keeping in mind that in the end they will only spend a small percentage of there time and money in that venue.

I think these closing times (and zoning rules) are a corral to squeeze the money into a tighter more controllable stream into the pockets of a few. I don't really think that the Thai Government has done this for humanitarian reasons.

Coffee!!!

[LivinLOS]

It is hilarious to me to see sex tourists bemoaning the impending collapse of Bangkok's tourist industry based upon a 60 minute (or 90,or 120 minutes) change is bar closing times.

Comparing to approx 4 years ago bars and entertainment venues have gone from having 8 or 10 hours of business to 3 or 4. Thats a massive fall in trading hours not 60 minutes.

Fancy having made an investment into a nightclub that used to be open until 6AM or similar ??

Also does anyone know can you have a place open if it serves no alcohol (unlikely as that sounds in a country that is so drug paranoid)..

Hard core sex tourists are maybe 0.5% of tourists, they interact with mybe 0.1% of Thailand, and all the money they spend combined is maybe 0.5% of tourist spending.  I made up the numbers - who really knows.

I dont know how you define a hardcore sex tourist.. However I would venture that single males visiting Thailand that would go to a bar and who now may not visit Thailand in favor of somewhere else (already groups of expat bar owners from Phuket have been checking out Angeles City.. This bunch go again this week and are specifically looking at bar prices and hotel s to purchase, thats direct outflow of foreign investment and has happened since the latest clampdown)..

I also think that 'hardcore' sex tourists, ones that come to Thailand purely to visit gogo's and ladybars probably dont care what the closing time is.. They would long since be off shacked up with someone.. Its the general young tourist that likes nightlife and party that will feel this most.

I should also point out that while this may have a very limited effect on GDP or total economic activity numbers tourist money is more than simple economic 'passing of the buck'. Tourist dollars are direct foreign exchange, eg Thailand getting richer at the expense of another countries economy getting poorer. For an economy to grow foriegn exchange of this sort is 10x as valauble as local economy business. Thailand does not get richer because a Thai spends money to another Thai, Thailand gets poorer every time a Thai buys an item produced overseas, Thailand only gets richer when it sells a product or a service to an overseas buyer, as such tourism ranks much more highly in importance than an equivalent industry with local turnover.

I dont much care as I am not involved in any tourist business and am pretty sure if I had a thirst on would be able to find somewhere to supply it. That said I am pretty sure they are killing Patong on Phuket with this action as is evidenced by the squeals of protest from Patongs elected officials / business people / power players.

[Up2U]

The 'family' tourists that come to Pattaya certainly do not enjoy Pattaya beach, which is a garbage dump, nor are there many places to visit - Nong Nooch, Underwater World, Elephant Park, plus a few others. The families would stay in the large hotels, with fancy pools, go on organised trips in those enormous buses, that's it. Pattaya thrives on single tourists, groups (rugby clubs, golf friends, so on) and long-stay (three-month plus) tourists from Europe, antipodes and the States.

We could happily lose the family tourists who will go elsewhere next year, as they were disappointed with the poor beaches, the short season for beach life and tourist trips (November to February) and will probably compare Thailand unfavourably to Singapore, Hong Kong, where the shopping is so much better and so much more is available. And has better airports, road transport, organisation.

Thailand cannot compete in these areas - beach-wise Oz has 'em all beat, service-wise both HK and Singers know their customers. Philippines (Cebu, Palawan) has better beaches and lower costs.

I love LOS and will stay here, but there will have to be a major shift in approach by the tourist industry to keep the volume up. Closing bars early just isn't the way to make friends - except for the American Baptist cult that Purachai favours.