Isn't This Called Discrimination

[tropo]

Dual pricing venues are mainly of two categories. One is national parks and similar government venues. These are owned and paid for by the Thai people and it's only fair they have a big discount there. You can enter these places at Thai price if you have a work permit. They even let you in, sometimes, with a local drivers license even if this is no prof of paying taxes.

The other category is tourist venues specially built for the foreign tourist trade. These businesses are based on the income they can get from tourists and would not be viable businesses if they relied on what they could charge Thai people. Nong Noch garden, the water park, the aquarium, Tony's gym and others would not be here if it was not for foreign tourists.

Tony's Disco disco would be empty if the locals had to pay 180Baht for a drink. "locals" at Tony's disco are 99.99% girls, without the girls there would be no male customers as customers who prefer to just drink with other male customers can do that a lot cheaper elsewhere.

The thing is that dual pricing at these venues benefit everyone, it's a win-win-win situation. The locals can frequently use the venues at a price realistic to them, the business owners get some extra income and level out some of the seasonal differences, the farang get a better price than they would if the locals did not contribute to the income of the business and in some cases the local price attract the girls most of us enjoy to be around.

This kind of dual pricing is also very common in western countries. All of you that come from a place that MAINLY derive it's income from tourist would know this. There are always good deals for the locals, it could be that you get a discount showing a local drivers license or you could buy special concession passes. The reason for this is to get the locals to use the facilities as much as possible.

Locals may visit an attraction once if they have to pay full price but if they get a good discount they may frequent the venues much more often. The discount is NOT because the tourists are more affluent than the locals and NOT because the locals are locals but to get a few extra dollars from the locals, it's NOT a charity thing, same goes for Thailand.

For you that come from places NOT MAINLY relying on tourists you may not have seen this before as this practice would not make any kind of difference for the businesses but for a place like Pattaya that TOTALLY depend on tourists it makes a big difference.

The main problem with this discussion seems to be that that the opposer's to this dual pricing have a hang up on using the Thai nationality as a criteria for discounts and then call this racial discrimination. The fact is that at most these places you DO get a discount if you show your work permit or prof of being a resident, a drivers permit may not be enough as just about anyone can get this.

At Tony's gym you get a discount as a "local farang" as you can get a life time membership at a good price while "tourist farangs" pay the more expensive daily rate. OK, Thai locals get a slightly better price but Tony has cleverly set this price to mainly attract fairly affluent Thais, most of them seems to be girls witch at least I think is a good thing. There are a number of other discounts available for "local farangs" through expat associations, sports clubs and others that the "tourist farangs" normally don't have access to.

Most of you who oppose dual pricing are very happy with the price you pay as this is much lower than you would pay in the west, the problem seems to be that you can't stand seeing someone else get a better deal than you. The thing is that no matter how god of a deal you get on anything here in life there will be someone else getting a better deal, even in your home countries.

Personally I just enjoy all the benefits this dual pricing gives me and are happy that it brings happiness to the Thai people as well, it's all a win-win-win deal.

Another post of distinction. Nicely explained ZZZ. In tourist locations the local usually get discounts that tourists can't.

Another example (from back at home) would be locals gaining FREE entry into discos where tourists pay a big covercharge. It's quite common for ladies to get free entry into discos where the guys must pay.

Edited March 9, 2008 by tropo

[sweetchariot]

I certainly cannot back up the OP on the 'discrimination' charges, but would back up all the other posters who have talked about misleading advertising........

But....

Drove past Tony's last night, as I do most days. Never really paid much attention to the advertising hoardings outside, but due to this thread I looked last night. There is one about 20 feet high advertising lifetime membership for 19,999 baht. There is another one next to it in Thai that also says 19,999 baht.

Not sure if this has changed due to this thread, I am pretty sure that the same hoardings have been there for several months.

I also saw the ad for 5,999 per year, and it stated in huge letters underneath that you had to buy 2 years to get this price. They have also painted this on the building itself, again with the huge disclaimer underneath.

I think some of us are too quick to jump on the 'Thais ripping off Farangs' bandwagon, but I certainly cannot see anything misleading in this advertising. Maybe you have seen a TV ad, or received a flyer stating a different price, but unless you have really bad eyesight I don't think you can walk in the gym and demand different prices to what are stated outside.

[sweetchariot]

'Snip' You can enter these places at Thai price if you have a work permit. They even let you in, sometimes, with a local drivers license even if this is no prof of paying taxes.

'Snip' The fact is that at most these places you DO get a discount if you show your work permit or prof of being a resident, a drivers permit may not be enough as just about anyone can get this.

You seem to feel very superior with your work permit. I will guarantee you that anywhere you can get a discount with you WP I will get the same with my drivers license. Not anyone can get this, it is a symbol of residency IMHO.

Mind you they probably take pity on farangs with work permits as they know that 99% of them are 'teachers' earning 20k a month, and need a discount.

[sweetchariot]

If you want to talk about dual pricing the lets talk about Tony's disco. Sh1t you are paying nearly 3 times the Thai price. I rarely go there but when I do it's normally with the missus and a few of her mates.

1 farang in the round means everyone pays farang price.

With me and a few of her mates that means I am paying 6 or 700 baht extra per round.

Learnt a long time ago, don't walk in together, get her to order and pay for the beers, then walk over and drink yours to the massive frustration of the staff. You can normally get away with this for 3 or 4 drinks using different service girls before they catch on, just disappear for 5 minutes whilst they are ordering/ paying.

If you a regular to this venue, you can save a few thousand per night, and have the extra 5k for gym membership in no time. Then when you hand over you 20k tell them that you saved all the money by drinking at Tony's disco.

Job's a goodun!

[sweetchariot]

No I'm being perfectly serious I think if we were to make lists it would become apparant that although dual pricing does occur,

it is in the minority of cases and not as some would make out a common occurrence that proves foreigners are being discriminated against.

I pay the same price as Thais would for all these things for example, and I do have a better income than a large proportion of Thai society.

An Apartment Totally wrong

Electricity

Water

Cable TV

Broadband internet

Food from supermarkets and shops Wrong

Food from restaurants Totally wrong

Vehicles Wrong

Petrol

Furniture

White goods

Electrical goods All these depend where you buy them from, but quite often you will be wrong

Clothes

Travel

Beer Wrong (see previous post)

Cigarettes

These are the essentials for life and I pay the same on all of them,

perhaps I have the money to choose a better product, but none of these essentials incur dual pricing.

The only area dual pricing does occur is in entertainment and leisure and then not always as it would quite possible to frequent Thai establishments.

So although dual pricing does occur it's hardly a general conspiricy against Farangs is it?

As with Tonys where you do find dual pricing the majority of Thais are priced out anyway, is that discrimination? Or regulating the clientelle through price policy? Isn't that what he is doing to you and all the others that complain? After all lets face it, if you are prepared to complain over such a small amount what else are you likely to complain about.

Point is though dual pricing hardly affects your life or that of most Foreigners, yet when one instance occurs it is touted as yet another example of discrimination against us.

I do feel occasional xenophobia or discrimination, but the freedom and privilege being a Farang give me far outweigh the negatives.

Try being rural Thai or Burmese, you might have an axe to grind then.

But over to you, I'm interested to hear how many instances of discrimination you encounter that affect your daily existence.

But apart from the red bits I completely agree

[Humphrey Bear]

jingthing - like your current Unabama avatar.

But Hilly as a Hoody?

[ZZZ]

'Snip' You can enter these places at Thai price if you have a work permit. They even let you in, sometimes, with a local drivers license even if this is no prof of paying taxes.

'Snip' The fact is that at most these places you DO get a discount if you show your work permit or prof of being a resident, a drivers permit may not be enough as just about anyone can get this.

You seem to feel very superior with your work permit. I will guarantee you that anywhere you can get a discount with you WP I will get the same with my drivers license. Not anyone can get this, it is a symbol of residency IMHO.

Mind you they probably take pity on farangs with work permits as they know that 99% of them are 'teachers' earning 20k a month, and need a discount.

Actually I don't work here and don't have a work permit

There are thousands of people going in and out of Thailand on NonIm O or B visas, that is all you need to get a drivers license, sometimes not even that. Even after the visa has expired the license could be valid for several years so a DL is not really a symbol of residency but as you say it will get you in at Thai price most of the time anyway.

Regarding prices on apartments an vehicles so are they not fixed and the highest bidder gets it, no discrimination here. Any farang doing his due diligence on a purchase can get the same price as a Thai would get, having said that another farang with more money than brains would probably clinch the deal

BTW, good trick getting drinks at Tony's, well done

[JimmyTheMook]

If you want to talk about dual pricing the lets talk about Tony's disco. Sh1t you are paying nearly 3 times the Thai price.

Wonder why the Tony apologist's cant comment on this.

It is blantant double pricing in the gym and there is no excuse for it except typical greed and stupidity.

[sweetchariot]

Actually I don't work here and don't have a work permit

There are thousands of people going in and out of Thailand on NonIm O or B visas, that is all you need to get a drivers license, sometimes not even that. Even after the visa has expired the license could be valid for several years so a DL is not really a symbol of residency but as you say it will get you in at Thai price most of the time anyway.

Regarding prices on apartments an vehicles so are they not fixed and the highest bidder gets it, no discrimination here. Any farang doing his due diligence on a purchase can get the same price as a Thai would get, having said that another farang with more money than brains would probably clinch the deal

BTW, good trick getting drinks at Tony's, well done

You will pay a higher price for an appartment that falls into the 49% that they can sell to farangs. They even advertise both prices.

As I said before I am not going to whinge about dual pricing, but at the same time I am not an apologist for it either. This has been going on for far too long for us to change, and they probably enjoy it more the more people whine about it.

Having said that I do enjoy when I have visitors and pay a fraction of the price at tourist venues. I can kind of understand their logic in these scenarios, as it does feel like you are getting one up on the unsuspecting tourists.

[ZZZ]

If you want to talk about dual pricing the lets talk about Tony's disco. Sh1t you are paying nearly 3 times the Thai price.

Wonder why the Tony apologist's cant comment on this.

It is blantant double pricing in the gym and there is no excuse for it except typical greed and stupidity.

I have not been to Tony's for a while but as far as remember I have never seen any Thai males in there, are they even allowed in? If not why is no one complaining about that

As for the girls paying less for the drinks while they are waiting for a farang to take care of them I don't mind that a bit, saves me money. If you just go out to drink cheap drinks and don't care about girls Tony's is the wrong place for you

[JimmyTheMook]

If you just go out to drink cheap drinks and don't care about girls Tony's is the wrong place for you

You mean if you're not looking for hookers ?

[ZZZ]

If you just go out to drink cheap drinks and don't care about girls Tony's is the wrong place for you

You mean if you're not looking for hookers ?

Yes

[Gary A]

If you want to talk about dual pricing the lets talk about Tony's disco. Sh1t you are paying nearly 3 times the Thai price.

Wonder why the Tony apologist's cant comment on this.

It is blantant double pricing in the gym and there is no excuse for it except typical greed and stupidity.

Apologist ?? It's up to him how he runs his business. I wouldn't spend my baht where I felt I wasn't getting fair treatment. ONE time in his disco made me decide that I wouldn't patronize any of his places of business and I haven't since. I just don't cry or complain about it.

[chuckd]

Several years ago, I was in Tony's having a drink and accidentally knocked over a glass of beer and broke the glass. It was one of those Heineken type that are given by Heineken for PR purposes.

When the bill came, there was a charge of 70 baht for the glass. I complained to no avail, paid my bill and swore never to return.

I never did. I voted with my feet, which is what those that think he discriminates should do.

[twix38]

it's simply wrong and another example of providing the same service and charging foreigners extra. Acceptable in a state run monoply such as National Parks where tax pays for it, but unaceptable in a business offering an identical service.

Perhaps farang run businesses should also adopt dual pricing and charge Thai's extra for the extra costs imposed by all the rules and regulations to set up a business here and having to employ 4 Thai staff to every foreigner employed. I know we live in Thailand, but the same argument of business choice and practices could be employed to defend the rights of the foreign business to equally determine their own pricing structures. This would not last long before a visit from an off duty ploliceman etc, but charging foreigners more is seen as completely acceptable!!

The only certain thing (ridiculous examples apart) is that the playing field is not level, is racist and is set up to remove foreigners from their money ( charging them more if they want is one common method along with corruption, robbery and occasionally murder!)

Avoid all Tony's establishments until he adopts a uniform business practice.

I could just imagine my local Fitness First in UK stating that the special offer was only available to me and my Thai wife would have to pay another 30% for, well, for being a foreigner! I would go mental and we should feel the same here!!! It's wrong on principle, let alone morals, racism and good business ethics.

Edited March 9, 2008 by twix38

[Jingthing]

You're looking at this the wrong way. Tony is giving the Thais a break on price rather than ripping you off.

Who are you to say what is the right or wrong way of looking at it?

The way I look at it, he is doing both: ripping off farangs AND giving Thais a break, all at the same time.

It's hard to discuss double pricing with you because you're the one who spent months screaming "racism, racism" with regard to baht bus drivers charging Farang an extra 5 baht. I can imagine that Tony charging Farang 5,000 more for a membership would get you really worked up - that's a 1000 x 5 baht.

Of course double pricing on baht buses is racism. They see a white face, one price, an Asian face, another.

My biggest problem with Pattaya transport is not the tired old 5 vs 10 canard but rather the lack of free and fair competition for a vital public utility, such as the taxi meters not using meters and being owned by the baht bus mafia.

Back to double pricing, how would you feel if you were charged more for electricity because you have white skin? These examples are vital utilities. Gyms and discos are not. I think it is scummy of these gyms and discos to price this way, but I don't have to use them. If I want public transport or electricity, I need to use the local monopolies.

The difference is so obvious, I can't believe I had to explain that to you, but there you are.

Edited March 9, 2008 by Jingthing

[Robski]

Back to double pricing, how would you feel if you were charged more for electricity because you have white skin?

But we're not are we?

I can't believe I had to explain that to you

ZzZzZzZz......

[tattoodrob]

Again the comment that this wouldn't happen in another country.

Name one country where discrimination doesn't exist.

Then move there.

OK Discrimination exists everywhere somehow but not so openly and brazenly in your face........thats whats makes it annoying in this case..if tony wants to give thais a better price then dont plaster it all over vehicles,leaflets and on tv so that we can see then we couldnt moan could we.

wouldnt go down well in uk if they advertised ...."whites pay 100 pound for memberships but black/brown/yellow people pay more".in business everyone can choose there prices but dont blatantly advertise it as i said

[tropo]

The difference is so obvious, I can't believe I had to explain that to you, but there you are.

You didn't need to explain anything. You think charging farang 5 baht extra for the baht bus is racism, I do not. We discussed this at great length already on another thread.

Double pricing has NOTHING to do with racism. It's just a way for certain businesses to optimize profits.

[Jingthing]

The difference is so obvious, I can't believe I had to explain that to you, but there you are.

You didn't need to explain anything. You think charging farang 5 baht extra for the baht bus is racism, I do not. We discussed this at great length already on another thread.

Double pricing has NOTHING to do with racism. It's just a way for certain businesses to optimize profits.

Yeah, let that one rest, I agree.

The difference I was talking about here is between classes of services we are offered here, vital monopolies (baht bus and taxi "meter") vs. optional luxury items (Tony's) with plenty of alternative providers.

Edited March 9, 2008 by Jingthing

[enyaw]

Mr. Jangles:

Would you mind telling us if the local bar you boycotted was in Thailand or your home country? Just curious if you were boycotting the discounted presence of Farang women or Thai women.

Back in farang land chuck. And believe me when i say the talent wasn't too hot anyways

Ok fair enough your post is starting to make a little more sense now.

Northern bird - youtube

[tropo]

Yeah, let that one rest, I agree.

Yes, we'll give it a rest.

The only reason I chimed in on this thread is because I'm a member of Tony's Gym and next week I have to renew my membership and I came across this double pricing first hand.

Unlike the OP, it didn't bother me personally and I didn't feel I was being discriminated against. It probably comes down to where a person comes from and what they are used to in their respective countries.

[Amir]

Therefore, even in the West, differential pricing is allowed for many categories of people and charging different prices for different nationalities or citizenships would most likely be completely legal.

This is not true for private companies in a lot of Euro countries (as France, Germany, Austria for example) mainly to protect from dumping. This practice would be illegal.

[torrenova]

Actually the advert on the telly for Tony's gym which states Bt2500 per year is in Thai but does not say you have to be Thai. However, I bet you a pound to a penny that you cannot get that offer if you are not Thai. You can even pay this in monthly Bt500 installments. The Bt19999 lifetime deal is not publicised in Thai on the TV I don't think.

So the real Thai rate is 12.5% of the western rate (though the lifetime deal starts to "win" after 8 years). Bt2500 versus Bt20000.

My worry wit the Bt20k deal is that is does not seem viable in the long run to operate a business in this manner.

[basjke]

Saw an advertising pickup from Tony's today which advertised,if a member brings a friend and they sign up for lifetime membership at 19.999 baht they get 1000 baht discount and an exclusive "europa" t-shirt worth 999 baht Didn't say if the t-shirt was woven with gold wire.

Also don't understand why an already member should sign up for lifetime.Yet another snake under the grass??

[mrbojangles]

Also don't understand why an already member should sign up for lifetime.Yet another snake under the grass??

Mmm, so now he wants you to sign up to 2 lifetime memberships. I think Tony must be relying on nobody coming back to take up the offer, after they have been reincarnated

[Humphrey Bear]

Actually the advert on the telly for Tony's gym which states Bt2500 per year is in Thai

You can even pay this in monthly Bt500 installments.

Yea, it's a pity about Thai schools - the maths tuition is not up to scratch, is it?

[basjke]

Try to get a lifetime membership for less then 20.000 Baht in another gym..

Good luck

Well if the claims in this topic are genuine then don't even have to walk far for it. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=174514

Edit: fixing link

Edited March 13, 2008 by basjke

[thaihome]

....Perhaps farang run businesses should also adopt dual pricing and charge Thai's extra for the extra costs imposed by all the rules and regulations to set up a business here and having to employ 4 Thai staff to every foreigner employed. I know we live in Thailand, but the same argument of business choice and practices could be employed to defend the rights of the foreign business to equally determine their own pricing structures. This would not last long before a visit from an off duty ploliceman etc, but charging foreigners more is seen as completely acceptable!!

.....

This statement highlights your complete lack of understanding of economics and how business actually works.

In reality, most of the alleged “discrimination” people feel they have been subjected to is merely free market pricing based on what the seller thinks the buyer will pay. No doubt that thinking is heavily based on nationality profiling (not racism). The problem is people have been raised in culture where “flexible” pricing has been pretty much done away with in past 50 years or so.

People, this is a different culture with different rules.

Get over it.

TH

[basjke]

Try to get a lifetime membership for less then 20.000 Baht in another gym..

Good luck

Been today to california wow as I read in another thread that they offered lifetime for 16000 baht.As I entered the gym I was approached by some sales lady and asked for the lifetime membership price.As I also read in other topics about Calfornia wow I expected agressive sales tactics but not at all.I was politely answered that they had a promotion running at 15.999 for lifetime which excluded an 100 baht yearly renewal fee.

Because I am a little sceptical when you have to sign a 2 page contract just for joining a gym I asked what are the hidden snakes in the grass with this renewal fee.They answered there are none and said I could pay the renewal fee for as many years in advance as I want and they just add the date to the contract.I also was showed around the gym and was realy impressed.All machines state of the art(not those old fashion and copy machines like tony)and lots of them,very big and clean locker and shower rooms and very good cardio and spinning area.Also no loud music as in some other threads was mentioned but enjoyable modern music.

I also asked them if my bag would be checked as it is in tony's to see if I don't bring my own protein but they answered that I could bring it without problem.

After the tour we sat down again and asked I they could offer something special because they are not the only gym in town and they went down to as low as 14.499 baht for lifetime.They tried to make me sign the contact right away,but not in a pushing manner,but I told them I wanted to think it over for a day or so.At the end they gave me a written rate reservation untill tomorrow to decide if I want to take the lifetime membership for 14.499 baht.

I think it will be an easy decision as the price is cheaper as tony's and also I pay the same as the thai person who is training next to me.