Russian Arms Dealer Arrested in Thailand

[judgedredd]

The case of Victor Bout intrigues many of us in the security industry.

My Thai police friends insist that the Thais are more than a little miffed and perplexed. It would seem that the American DEA team created a specific crime, which would not have otherwise existed, and enticed Victor Bout to participate in that crime. In America that would constitute “illegal entrapment”. Here in Thailand, the Thais are perhaps confused in regards to international law, but I can tell you that more than a few Thai CSD officials resent that America created a crime on Thai soil. Did America violate Thailand’s sovereignty with this act? Perhaps...

I find that the entire concept of unilaterally-declared “universal jurisdiction” is illegal and unworkable. What I want to know is, whose laws take precedence? For example, taking it closer to America, if Mexico claimed that Mexican law applied in Texas, and if America claimed that Texas law applied in Mexico, the result would be a war, (after which the victor would impose its own laws on the vanquished).

My point is, under what internationally-accepted law does America claim universal worldwide jurisdiction? American agents engineered the arrest of a Russian citizen on Thai soil, who had committed no crime in Thailand. Has Thailand ceded its sovereignty to the American FBI/CIA/DHS/DEA?

Perhaps Victor Bout has participated in some “international crimes” in his life, but closer to home for the rest of us here in Thailand, perhaps American agents are breaking Thai law every time that they send their agents snooping about here in Thailand.

I suspect that this case will ultimately be resolved, (and Victor Bout will be free to go back home to Russia), after a Thai Judge rules that the American agents had no right to create a crime in Thailand.

Just my opinion.

Judge Dredd

[percy2]

The Americans want him arrested and locked up, because if anyone is going to sell weapons to 'two bit dictators' it's going to be the Americans.

once again, somebody who can't think for themselves and and has the habit of then talking outloud. If you are going to be stupid please do it on your own time....

So you're saying the US or it's Allies don't sell arms to dictatorial countries?

They sell arms to 'Sovereign' countries which tend to be more accountable if they cross the line.

Dictatorship or not (most countries are dictatorships so the point is moot), they are 'recognised' sovereign countries.

The money goes into the treasury of a country for the benefit of the country (ideally).

This guy was selling arms to rebel forces and 'unknown entities' who are not accountable and could topple a government

The money was going to one person, him, benefiting fewer people as a result etc etc.

Is this a "Tina Fey" like parody of what someone else has said?

[Thai at Heart]

The Americans want him arrested and locked up, because if anyone is going to sell weapons to 'two bit dictators' it's going to be the Americans.

once again, somebody who can't think for themselves and and has the habit of then talking outloud. If you are going to be stupid please do it on your own time....

So you're saying the US or it's Allies don't sell arms to dictatorial countries?

They sell arms to 'Sovereign' countries which tend to be more accountable if they cross the line.

Dictatorship or not (most countries are dictatorships so the point is moot), they are 'recognised' sovereign countries.

The money goes into the treasury of a country for the benefit of the country (ideally).

This guy was selling arms to rebel forces and 'unknown entities' who are not accountable and could topple a government

The money was going to one person, him, benefiting fewer people as a result etc etc.

Is this a "Tina Fey" like parody of what someone else has said?

Sounds more like the real thing than a parody.

[LaoPo]

The case of Victor Bout intrigues many of us in the security industry.

My Thai police friends insist that the Thais are more than a little miffed and perplexed. It would seem that the American DEA team created a specific crime, which would not have otherwise existed, and enticed Victor Bout to participate in that crime. In America that would constitute “illegal entrapment”. Here in Thailand, the Thais are perhaps confused in regards to international law, but I can tell you that more than a few Thai CSD officials resent that America created a crime on Thai soil. Did America violate Thailand’s sovereignty with this act? Perhaps...

I find that the entire concept of unilaterally-declared “universal jurisdiction” is illegal and unworkable. What I want to know is, whose laws take precedence? For example, taking it closer to America, if Mexico claimed that Mexican law applied in Texas, and if America claimed that Texas law applied in Mexico, the result would be a war, (after which the victor would impose its own laws on the vanquished).

My point is, under what internationally-accepted law does America claim universal worldwide jurisdiction? American agents engineered the arrest of a Russian citizen on Thai soil, who had committed no crime in Thailand. Has Thailand ceded its sovereignty to the American FBI/CIA/DHS/DEA?

Perhaps Victor Bout has participated in some “international crimes” in his life, but closer to home for the rest of us here in Thailand, perhaps American agents are breaking Thai law every time that they send their agents snooping about here in Thailand.

I suspect that this case will ultimately be resolved, (and Victor Bout will be free to go back home to Russia), after a Thai Judge rules that the American agents had no right to create a crime in Thailand.

Just my opinion.

Judge Dredd

The DEA is infamous for committing ''crimes'' on foreign soil.

They specifically asked permission from the Dutch government -Justice Department- to operate and infiltrate on Dutch soil.

Those requests were denied.

Later, papers showed up that the DEA literally said and wrote: "<deleted> the Dutch government" we'll go ahead anyway and did so...

Shocking.

I wonder if Foreign investigation teams are allowed to operate on American Soil...let's say a Thai Police undercover team in Washington....yeah right

....and, I wonder WHAT the US would say if they found out such teams would say: "<deleted> the American government" we'll do the job anyway.

Thinking of it...would the DEA get permission from Putin/Medvedev to operate in Moscow ?

And, would the secret service from Moscow get permission to operate in Washington ?

What a world...

LaoPo

Edited October 23, 2008 by LaoPo

[katana]

For anyone in the UK that's interested, there's a documentary on BBC2 at 7:00pm on 17/11/08 about the international operation that led to the arrest of the arms dealer in this thread, Viktor Bout.

Edited November 17, 2008 by katana