Men Surely Have No Idea...

[RueFang]

Do men really have any clue whatsoever what it is like for women to suffer PMS? I'm not talking about the aches and pains, I mean the psycho hormonal banshee part of it. I think that they assume that we enjoy being a bitch, that we use this week of every month as an excuse just to be horrible to them and secretly enjoy it. Well, I'm here to say that PMS is evil. It is a force that can not be controlled. It can be all consuming and blinding. And when the hormonal surges subside we feel evil and ashamed at behaving so erratically and unhinged. At least I do and I know I feel way worse then my poor husband who now knows to avoid me on these days each month (we are together 24/7 btw so it is greatly intensified!) . I can actually feel the 'crazy' surges coming on and will say outright to him that he should avoid me for the day as it really does help the situation. Ideally, I would be able to go off into my own little world for 2 or 3 days where I could either be alone or have lots of gossip sessions with girlfriends, but that's not possible unfortunately.

I know every woman is so different though and I've always experienced PMS to the extreme when not on the pill. Has anyone found anything natural and readily available in Thailand to dilute the erratic hormonal crazies? My friend recently gave me some homeopathy drops that are incredible. 5 drops and within minutes it's like I've taken a sedative! Magic , have no idea what is in it, but when I actually remember to take it, it is amazing.

If you are a man responding in the ladies thread, please be gentle and remember your comments are most welcome if you stick to the particular rules of the Ladies Forum.

Thanks for the waffle

[nidge]

RueFang, i can fully admit i have no clue as to what you ladies go through when you have PMS but your post made me smile. There has been a post recently about men being ruled by their privates. After reading that i can clearly see that men understand womens PMS just as much as women understand mens need to have sex. You said that you think men assume you are being horrible on purpose, (i'm sure many do), and that's the same as men think women refuse them sex as a punishment. I know you go through hel_l when you have PMS and the hardest thing for me when my wife has it, (rarely thankfully), is knowing what to do to make it easier for her. Perhaps you ladies could create a do's and don'ts list for men at PMS time?

Nidge.

[RueFang]

Thanks Nidge, your wife must absolutely worship and adore you Space is definitely a winner on those days! I think the guys and gals on the TV forum need to do up a whole lot of Dos and Don't lists regarding all the male/female aspects of life... the list would be very enlightening to all!

[traveller5000]

I think that they assume that we enjoy being a bitch, that we use this week of every month as an excuse just to be horrible to them and secretly enjoy it. Well, I'm here to say that PMS is evil.

About the only thing I noticed with my partner is an increased libido. I guess I was one of the lucky ones.

[kat]

Do men really have any clue whatsoever what it is like for women to suffer PMS? I'm not talking about the aches and pains, I mean the psycho hormonal banshee part of it. I think that they assume that we enjoy being a bitch, that we use this week of every month as an excuse just to be horrible to them and secretly enjoy it. Well, I'm here to say that PMS is evil. It is a force that can not be controlled. It can be all consuming and blinding. And when the hormonal surges subside we feel evil and ashamed at behaving so erratically and unhinged. At least I do and I know I feel way worse then my poor husband who now knows to avoid me on these days each month (we are together 24/7 btw so it is greatly intensified!) . I can actually feel the 'crazy' surges coming on and will say outright to him that he should avoid me for the day as it really does help the situation. Ideally, I would be able to go off into my own little world for 2 or 3 days where I could either be alone or have lots of gossip sessions with girlfriends, but that's not possible unfortunately.

I know every woman is so different though and I've always experienced PMS to the extreme when not on the pill. Has anyone found anything natural and readily available in Thailand to dilute the erratic hormonal crazies? My friend recently gave me some homeopathy drops that are incredible. 5 drops and within minutes it's like I've taken a sedative! Magic , have no idea what is in it, but when I actually remember to take it, it is amazing.

If you are a man responding in the ladies thread, please be gentle and remember your comments are most welcome if you stick to the particular rules of the Ladies Forum.

Thanks for the waffle

Rue, I find that diet and nutrition are very important tools for me. I think it is no small accident or coincidence that the drops work. You should find out what they are, and do a little research. For me, what I've found and then substantiated with a book by a doctor on women's hormones, is that the elimination or decrease of white flour (bread), caffeine, alcohol, and dairy make a significant difference. But most of all, the combination of Omega fatty oils and soy during the PMS time and my period made the biggest difference that CHANGED MY LIFE! I suffered TERRIBLY during my monthlies, with an entire week of bad cramps and blinding, shrill headaches that made PMS look like a picnic.

So now, I have significantly decreased the white flour and caffeine, especially during that time of the month, and eat lots of salmon, miso soup with tofu and seaweed, and brown rice and soy milk a few days before and during my period. I can't say that it works like a charm, because it would be an understatement since it is a completely different experience. I went from almost being incapacitated for a week to having NO symptoms at all - when I eat like this and follow it. On my return back to the states, I noticed bad symptoms creeping back in as I started to abandon this regimen. As soon as I introduce the above meal, it gets significantly better. There is a science to it as well, because of the properties in that meal that have an affect on female hormones. I bought the book in LOS. Let me know if you want a recommendation. Also, working out regularly is also an important antidote, but diet is number one.

[HomeisThai]

Milk Thistle is also meant to be good to balance out hormones, can take a while to work mind..

[RueFang]

thanks Kat, you are like a guru on this forum I'm thinking it's coffee! Have a bad habit of getting addicted to it although I never have more then one per day i think I shouldn't have any. I never drink alcohol (allergic) never eat bread and rarely eat dairy either (village life!). The soy makes sense and I actually crave soy milk when I'm pmsing, how funny! Since I started doing yoga most days my cramps are not so bad but I have one or two days where I have these hormonal surges where I feel a demon is possessing my soul. I'm pretty sure not every woman gets this though, or to varying degrees! It only lasts less then 20 seconds or so but is recurrent throughout the day! Horrible horrible and definitely hormonal.

Would love to know the book you're talking about.

Homeisthai - Have you used it personally? Where do you get it in Thailand? Is it expensive or do you grow it

Edited March 7, 2008 by RueFang

[kat]

Really? I didn't know about Milk Thistle for PMS, but I have some in my kitchen cabinet. I use it to preempt hangovers by taking drops in my water before going to sleep. Works great! You had me going through my cabinet, HomeisThai, and I also found Vitex, or Chasteberry:

Vitex was used as a traditional folk remedy for a range of female conditions, such as post-partum hemorrhage and to help with the "passing of afterbirth". One of its alternate names, "chaste tree", comes from the historical belief that it can suppress libido. Vitex does not actually contain hormones. It appears to increase progesterone by stimulating the release of a hormone called luteinizing hormone from the pituitary gland. Vitex is also thought to normalize excessive prolactin levels and promote fertility.

* Female infertility

* PMS, especially breast tenderness, cramping, and headaches

* Acne, especially if it is related to the menstrual cycle

* Fibrocystic breast disease

* Heavy menstruation

* Menopausal symptoms

[nidge]

Thanks Nidge, your wife must absolutely worship and adore you Space is definitely a winner on those days! I think the guys and gals on the TV forum need to do up a whole lot of Dos and Don't lists regarding all the male/female aspects of life... the list would be very enlightening to all!

Thanks RueFang, perhaps my wife does adore me but she still calls me a big mouthed muppet

[kat]

thanks Kat, you are like a guru on this forum I'm thinking it's coffee! Have a bad habit of getting addicted to it although I never have more then one per day i think I shouldn't have any. I never drink alcohol (allergic) never eat bread and rarely eat dairy either (village life!). The soy makes sense and I actually crave soy milk when I'm pmsing, how funny! Since I started doing yoga most days my cramps are not so bad but I have one or two days where I have these hormonal surges where I feel a demon is possessing my soul. I'm pretty sure not every woman gets this though, or to varying degrees! It only lasts less then 20 seconds or so but is recurrent throughout the day! Horrible horrible and definitely hormonal.

Would love to know the book you're talking about.

Homeisthai - Have you used it personally? Where do you get it in Thailand? Is it expensive or do you grow it

That's funny. I have a real interest in natural medicine and nutrition, because I have such a sensitive system I needed to find natural ways to deal. I will look up the book and get back.

[HomeisThai]

Really? I didn't know about Milk Thistle for PMS, but I have some in my kitchen cabinet. I use it to preempt hangovers by taking drops in my water before going to sleep. Works great! You had me going through my cabinet, HomeisThai, and I also found Vitex, or Chasteberry:

Vitex was used as a traditional folk remedy for a range of female conditions, such as post-partum hemorrhage and to help with the "passing of afterbirth". One of its alternate names, "chaste tree", comes from the historical belief that it can suppress libido. Vitex does not actually contain hormones. It appears to increase progesterone by stimulating the release of a hormone called luteinizing hormone from the pituitary gland. Vitex is also thought to normalize excessive prolactin levels and promote fertility.

* Female infertility

* PMS, especially breast tenderness, cramping, and headaches

* Acne, especially if it is related to the menstrual cycle

* Fibrocystic breast disease

* Heavy menstruation

* Menopausal symptoms

Ohh Vitex, I dont think I have heard of that before

Rue - I am in the UK so just buy a tincture one by A.Vogel, I too use it for hangovers and apparently after 6 months use skin should clear too (I have awful acne 3/4 months in and hangovers practically gone but skin bad still).. I am not sure where you would get it in Thailand to be honest, maybe a chinese medicine shop? but if you do find it let me know as I plan to move to Thailand for a while next year and on my last trip a whole 100ml bottle broke so I had none.

[kat]

Milk Thistle is primarily used as a liver cleanser and herbal detox. It probably helps during PMS to clear everything out.

Rue, judging on the fact that you are also allergic to some things, you are probably very sensitive like me. I think coffee may be a factor for you. I drink green tea. I do like black tea, but try to cut down or eliminate this during my PMS and time of the month. Coffee works like a dam_n drug for me, and I have to avoid it, or I could easily experience the "demonic" or near crazy surges that you talk about. When you eliminate it and re-introduce it, you will feel an almost instant, drug-like effect come over you with coffee.

In the meantime, you should try to increase your Omega fatty oils as well. I do the meal I described above, but you could try Evening Primrose Oil, although they didn't do much for me, because they are expensive and you have to take a lot of them to have an effect. I prefer eating my meal.

I found the book, and will cut and paste a description. Don't be too put off by the word "premenopause". It is just a made up word to describe hormonal imbalances or fluctuations that women can start experiencing after 30. It is filled with different scenarios and possible different chemistries that may be affecting current symptoms. For me, and many women, it is an overabundance of estrogen and the decrease of progesterone. Anyway, it's filled with good tips and insights.

What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About: Premenopause, Balance Your Hormones and Your Life from Thirty to Fifty (Paperback)

by John Lee (Author), Jesse Hanley (Author), Virginia Hopkins (Author):

Are you a woman between 35 and 50 experiencing PMS, migraine headaches, sudden weight gain, fatigue, irritability, tender or lumpy breasts, memory loss, fibroids, or cold hands and feet? If so, you may be experiencing symptoms of premenopause. Even if you're a decade or more away from menopause, your hormones may already be out of balance, usually caused by an excess of estrogen and a deficiency of progesterone, say the authors of What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Premenopause. John Lee, M.D., is a well-known advocate of the benefits of natural progesterone and the author of What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Menopause. Jesse Hanley, M.D., adds sensitivity to the emotional and spiritual aspects of premenopause. The authors recommend natural progesterone cream to balance your hormones, eliminate premenopausal symptoms, and make you feel better. They also discuss the dangers of xenohormones--substances not found in nature that have hormonal effects--frequently found in pesticides, solvents, plastics, and hormone-treated meat. The book presents common symptoms of premenopause with suggested natural treatments (progesterone cream, diet, vitamins, and herbs) and substances to avoid, plus additional chapters on diet and exercise. Many case studies help to bring the information into perspective. If you are premenopausal (or close to someone who is), this is a valuable resource. --Joan Price

*Added: here's the link on amazon.com so you can get a look at it: http://www.amazon.com/What-Your-Doctor-Tel...d_sim_b_title_6

Edited March 7, 2008 by kat

[bsided69]

Do men really have any clue whatsoever what it is like for women to suffer PMS? I'm not talking about the aches and pains, I mean the psycho hormonal banshee part of it. I think that they assume that we enjoy being a bitch, that we use this week of every month as an excuse just to be horrible to them and secretly enjoy it. Well, I'm here to say that PMS is evil. It is a force that can not be controlled. It can be all consuming and blinding. And when the hormonal surges subside we feel evil and ashamed at behaving so erratically and unhinged. At least I do and I know I feel way worse then my poor husband who now knows to avoid me on these days each month (we are together 24/7 btw so it is greatly intensified!) . I can actually feel the 'crazy' surges coming on and will say outright to him that he should avoid me for the day as it really does help the situation. Ideally, I would be able to go off into my own little world for 2 or 3 days where I could either be alone or have lots of gossip sessions with girlfriends, but that's not possible unfortunately.

I know every woman is so different though and I've always experienced PMS to the extreme when not on the pill. Has anyone found anything natural and readily available in Thailand to dilute the erratic hormonal crazies? My friend recently gave me some homeopathy drops that are incredible. 5 drops and within minutes it's like I've taken a sedative! Magic , have no idea what is in it, but when I actually remember to take it, it is amazing.

If you are a man responding in the ladies thread, please be gentle and remember your comments are most welcome if you stick to the particular rules of the Ladies Forum.

Thanks for the waffle

The coil worked like a miracle for an Ex of mine. Its not natural I know. She behaved very similar to how you describe your behaviour whilst on her period. It was like living with a completely different woman. After a few months she would pretend to go a bit crazy whilst going through her period. I would just duck and run away. She would smile and give me a hug. Freaked me out I can tell you.

Please excuse my little quip at an earlier reply.

[cathyy]

It can't be just the hormone shifts causing PMS or it would be all women that get it. It has to be how the individual body reacts to the hormone shifts. It does seem like I would be someone who gets PMS. I have numerous allergies, sensitive skin, and my diet is certainly not one recommended for decreasing PMS. But I didn't get PMS. I have never experienced it. Similarly, while in menopause I have not experienced any mood swings. I'm about as even-tempered as a person can be. My husband developed a deep appreciation of that aspect of me when he stayed with relatives for a couple of months and experienced a woman with PMS.

When my daughter was about 13 she had painful menstrual cramps. I made her do 10 sit-ups before I would let her take a Tylenol. She hated me at that moment, but admitted later that the sit-ups had helped, and afterward she would do sit-ups herself if she had cramps.

[kat]

Didn't say All, and neither does the book. It talks about different chemistry/hormonal combinations that could be causing it, and of course our reaction to certain foods that can exacerbate it.

[seonai]

Where's Bina

[isabelle17]

Since were on the topic of PMS...

Does anyone know if Thai women recognize the symptoms they have before their period as PMS? Do they have a word for PMS in Thai, because it would be AMAZING if I could actually explain why I am so irritated and cranky right before my period in a way that he can understand....

Also, is it possible for birth control pills to make PMS worse? I have been taking a specific kind for a few months now, and I was fine, but recently I have started to notice that I have become more irritable while PMSing. I am stressed out with other things, so maybe that has something to do with it. I might try and change my pills to a kind that can help control my PMS better.

Its actually not my boyfriend that has to watch out, I feel awful to say this, but I am really kind of horrible to everyone. but then I am perfectly back to normal withing a few days!

[seonai]

Isi I would say 'Men ma laeow, arom seeya' - my period came already my emotions are broken' - they know what that means

[seonai]

Oh and Isabelle yes, some birth control pills can make your PMS worse. You need one with a low oestrogen level I think, check it out with the other girls here. Sheryl would be a good person to ask. I once got a coil fitted with a hormone added and within 4 days I felt almost suicidal so I pulled it out by myself!!! The clinic said I'd had a severe reaction to the hormones. You musy get it checked Isabelle

[isabelle17]

Oh and Isabelle yes, some birth control pills can make your PMS worse. You need one with a low oestrogen level I think, check it out with the other girls here. Sheryl would be a good person to ask. I once got a coil fitted with a hormone added and within 4 days I felt almost suicidal so I pulled it out by myself!!! The clinic said I'd had a severe reaction to the hormones. You musy get it checked Isabelle

Wow. Thanks! Yeah, I will see a doctor about it soon. I think theres a good brand called Yaz that supposibly is really good for PMS? Im thinking about trying that one out depending on what the doc says. haha...I love the very literal transitions in Thai!

[RueFang]

Thanks so much for the informative posts, appreciate that.

About the only thing I noticed with my partner is an increased libido. I guess I was one of the lucky ones.

This is probably her at ovulation rather then pmsing. Most women get horny when ovulating...nature's way of increasing the population

Vitex was used as a traditional folk remedy for a range of female conditions...

I actually consulted a Naturopath a few years ago and she told me I am estrogen dominant and put me on Vitex! I took it for a year and to be honest didn't notice any changes. I stopped taking it while living in Thailand as it's just too expensive and the results were less then impressive unfortunately.

I think this is the key to my pms problems though but living where I do, I don't feel comfortable with any of the doctors here and frankly there is not much available medically here. Hopefully I will be in Bangkok soon and can consult someone. Any recommended physicians for women's health in Bangkok?

bsided69 - thanks for your imput, no probs about the joke Cathy you are positively blessed not to get PMS and yes, your husband should count his blessings!!

Isabelle, my Thai husband was pretty confused about the whole PMS thing for about the first year we were together as he'd never even heard about it but I made him research it in Thai on the internet and it was like divine comprehension (at last!!). Before that he just thought I was insane but reading up in his own language he discovered I truly was normal

[Naam]

Do men really have any clue whatsoever what it is like for women to suffer PMS? I'm not talking about the aches and pains, I mean the psycho hormonal banshee part of it. I think that they assume that we enjoy being a bitch, that we use this week of every month as an excuse just to be horrible to them and secretly enjoy it.

i [not so] humbly beg to differ RueFang! any man with an IQ higher than 82.5, a sound general education and last not least a few years of suffering from his partner's PMS (yes we men do suffer as much as you ladies, perhaps even more! ) knows when "the bitch is loose", keeps a low profile and spends time tidying his workshop, says "of course you are right my dear" when she claims monsters are hiding below the beds, the dog has stolen a lipstick from her bathroom, the nearly invisible pimple on her left cheek must be a boil caused by the black plague which the man contracted at the last boys' night out and carried home...

shall i go on?

[RueFang]

You really do understand Naam!! I know it is hideous for the men to be on the receiving end of it, but I just want to reaffirm that even though we come across as momentarily demonic, we hate ourselves for it! Thanks for the big smile

[kat]

"... the dog has stolen a lipstick from her bathroom ..."

Are you sure it wasn't the cat?

Anyway, Rue, if you know you are estrogen dominant, and you are allergic to the alcohol and are having these surges, you sound similar to me.

Something you can do right away is cut down or eliminate coffee, or at the very least stop when you are PMS-ing, introduce more green tea, tofu and soy into your diet all month long, and try my combination of salmon, miso soup with seaweed, and green tea. I think you can substitute the miso soup for a clear Thai soup that is made with tofu and seaweed, and substitute fish such as mackerel, sardines, mussels and clams if you can't find salmon. But, it is the combination of all that is important, and you should try to eat this combination for a few days during the "crazy" times. Flaxseed oil can also help. I only use Vitex as a supplement to all of this.

Good luck!

[bggg]

I think its important to remember we are all different and so are our hormone levels. There are some basics that I am sure apply to most if not all woman. I found over the years, exercise, decrease saltand caffeine, increase calcium and iron intake have all helped me. I tend to be anemic so need the extra iron to get through. I never quite figured out how to eliminate the demonic moments you know you are doing it but can't seem to stop yourself. DH and kids looking at you with that helpless expression but the rant goes on and on.

DD was diagnosed at bumrungrad with very high levels of testosterone, when they corrected that her PMS went to being a very minor thing. If you feel your situation is severe yu may want to get your hormone levels checked next time in BKK. Even if you do not want drugs to correct potential problems it will give you a better idea of what natural suppliments you may want to try.

[Sheryl]

The correct term (coined after they finally established that this is a genuine medical disorder) is "pre-menstrual dysphasic disorder" (PMDD) and it is due to hormonally mediated changes in neurotransmitters.

Folk and herbal remedies abound, none of them ever worked for me, and I am in that small minority of women who have really, really. REALLY bad PMDD, ever since I was about 40.

The SSRIs (serotonion reuptake inhibitors) have been proven in controlled trials to significantly improve this condition. Zoloft (sertraline) is the only one of this group that was tested but probably any of them would work. Usually needs only a low end dose, and many women need only take it in the last half of their cycle. If you opt fpr that approach and use an SSRI other than Zoloft, just be sure it is not Prozac as Prozac takesd a very long tiem to kick in, would not work on such short usage.

Natural progesterone has also been widely used and many women swear by it, the few really scientific studies of it used much lower dose than normally recommended and hence conclusions are doubtful. Unfortunately as it is a natural substance there isn't much profit incentive to do proper studies. All I can say is from my own personal experience:

natural progeterone does indeed help a great deal.

so does Zoloft

and the 2 combined work even better.

For years I hed off on progesterone, deterred by the lack of scientific evidence. Made a HUGE difference when I finally started to sue it.

Then the studies came out on SSRIs, again I hesitated for some years, this time I think the stigma associated with being on anti-depressents. Finally gave in and wished I had done so from the start, what a difference.

I would strongly advise anyone who is suffering from full blown PMDD to waste no time going on both natural progesterone and an SSRI rpovided you have no medical contraindicatoions to the latter.

In LOS the problem is that the most readily available natural progesterone is Utrogestan, a micronized oral form, and it is better to take progesterone (and for that matter estrogen) as a cream or gekl absorbed through the skin. The gel form, Progestogel, is licensed for use in Thailand but seems to have disappeared from most of ther shelves. You may however be able to persudae a pharmacy to order it for you from the manufacturer is you buy in bulk. Or, it is readily available in Cambodia and I always pick up a few tubes while I'm there and send me a PM and I'll get some for yopu. Or you can buy various brands of natural progesterone online (be careful re quality tho).

Meanwhile buy some utrogestan, it certainly works in a pinch, will calm you right down. Only side effect is sleepiness. But you'll get much better control and more even hormonal levels using the gel.

And if you need Zoloft on top of it, don't let the stigma and all the folks who rant against anti-depressents stop you. It certainly beats being a homicidal lunatic for 10 days out of every 30 (in my case, a full ten days!).........

[Sheryl]

P.S. And, of course, there is that other cure we all know about but which has a most undesirable side effect:

CHOCOLATE

the less sugar and the higher the cocoa content, the better. Alas. requires a very frequent dosing schedule and, while there is only one major side efefct, it occur to 100% of women and in cumulative effct..........

For the benefit of any male readers, the best advice if confronted with a woman in PMDD:

1. Leave the area at once.

2. Procure large amounts of semi-sweet chocoloate of at least 70%, preferrably higher, cacoa count.

3. Return home, place on doorstoop, press bell and run away.

4. Wait at least 2 hours before attempting to return, and have more chocolate on hand when you do.

5. Repeat as often as needed.

6. As soon as her period starts (you will know by the sudden transformation in her mood, like a curtain of gloom and rage just lifted) show her the previous post.

[seonai]

nice one Sheryl:)

[nidge]

Thanks Sheryl,

Now i need to find dark chocolate in Issan. Then i need to find a way of actually leaving it on the doorstop and not eating it myself!

Nidge

[seonai]

Or it melting on the doorstep