Expatriates Continue To Rank Singapore As The Top Place To Live In Asia

[thaihome]

Lived there for a couple of years in the late 90's. Would go back in a heartbeat. Agree that if you are not on full boat expat package it can be tough. Our housing allowance for Singapore is about USD 8,000 month, compared to HK at 12k and Bangkok at about 4k

Have never really understood the sterile label that so many give to Singapore. In truth, it is anything but.

TH

[Prakanong]

Yeah, but it is boring compared to Thailand, and even with the loosening up from the repressive government there, it lacks that certain Thai sanuk.

Oh you can have lots of fun here - just knowing where to go etc like most places I would guess.

I find it much easier to work here than I ever did in Thailand - there is just not the small number of little hassles that spoil Thailand.

I like clean, safe etc - the opportunities are better here for someone working and wanting to get on.

Tax is much lower in Singapore than I would pay in Thailand and the annual bonus covers it and more.

Then again I can fly to most places in Asia quite quickly ie Thailand very cheap in two hours.

For someone still working it is a great place - retird or bumming about then no - horses for courses.

[Prakanong]

Even I thought about doing a stint there and still might. There are some underlying issues though with the rampant property prices and rents going through the roof being high on the current agenda.

I've been ther on business years ago and a few times for the odd few days in the last couple of years and I find it a mix of London, Tokyo, perhaps Hong Kong with just a little bit of bangkok dust thrown in for good measure. I guess if I do go there for a while that my opinions will change.

Oh, and most places only sell that bloody horrible Tiger beer !

Rent went rampant last year - lets see how it pans out this year but it dos not look like lasting - en-bloc sales right down and lots of property coming on the market. The govt were told by plenty of conmpanies, governements nad HR associations hat it would slow the economy down as workers would not coe so they have took some heat out of the market.

I still say I could not get the equivalent rental property in BKK for the price I am paying now - location, quality, facilities, security, transport access etc (ask me again after September though).

I can also assure you I very rarely have to resort to Tiger beer

[Prakanong]

Not to me, because they don't have Thai girls all over the place. Which I LOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are plenty of them about beleive me!

There are also a lot of other Asians too though from the dark Indonesians to the alabaster Chinese with all in between.

[Prakanong]

All this tells me is that those ex-pats who are so bored that they are willing to answer questions in a survey prefer to live in Singapore. Maybe the ex-pats who prefer Thailand are too busy having a good time to fill in questionnaires?

Absolutely love it here in Thailand. There is a possibility I may have to move to Singapore in the next few months for work. The other choice was Shanghai.

Singapore wins hands down on that one.

My next choice in my annual review this year was Shanghai

My bosses answer, "No problem, learn Mandarin"

[BigSnake]

Judging from my many visits with friends there it is indeed a great place to live.

[kmart]

Singapore. Great place to work, especially when your company is covering all your living expenses. I like Singaporeans, in the main. Honest, hardworking people. After a while the place can get a bit boring, but then LoS is only a short hop away.

Ironic though, that "boring" Singapore's nightlife is up and running 24hrs / day, yet Thailand is getting more restrictive and authoritarian with its stupid booze laws...?

[ade100]

Some posters are saying that Singapore is not as much fun as Thailand and rather “sterile”. I suppose Thailand can be a lot of fun and it certainly has more germs and viruses.

Personally I find that if I keep my relationship with Thailand at the superficial level, ie. I just pop over for weekends, I find the place very beautiful and a lot of fun. However if my relationship with Thailand starts to get a little deeper, I find it offends every principal that I have been brought up to believe in: Justice, equality, honesty, being polite and courteous, being considerate, resolving conflicts peacefully, etc.

Singapore, on the other hand, believes in equality in the work place, people are encouraged to be courteous and to be good citizens. The government is considerate of quality of life and is busy building walkways, cycle paths, promenades, etc. The people are well educated as the schools, colleges and universities here are of top international standard. Lastly, any man, woman or child can walk anywhere, any time, day or night and not have to feel frightened. It’s very liberating.

At the end of the day it’s these things that really matter rather than the price of your noodles or whether you like Tiger beer (which incidentally you can buy here even when there is an election or a public holiday).

[mrtoad]

Couldn't pay me to live there ... hate the scum !

------------------

Why?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Singapore

For a start I don't like Chinese, who constitute 75% of the population. The Thai-Chinese I can stand because they have been well house-trained by their hosts. But the rest are just plain rude, hard, narrow-minded, dirty, and have disgusting personal habits. Do you really want to live in a country where they have to put up signs everywhere saying 'No Spitting'?

It is by far the most expensive country in S.E. Asia, and it is certainly not good value. The food is nothing special, it's over-cooked and high in unhealthy refined carbohydrates; give me som-tam or sashimi any day.

Remember Nick Leeson? The prison food gave him cancer and they sent him back to sleep on a concrete floor 2 weeks after removing a third of his colon. His stomach staples then split open. Oh, and he was one of the lucky ones to actually be granted a trial rather than a 15-year stretch for unspecified misdemeanors.

Even Singaporeans dream of getting out and migrating somewhere civilised ... like Australia.

What an absolute load of dross.

Spent a lot of time there with work back in 2002-2004 and have always loved the place. I have a significant amount of friends in S'pore through University and School days, and yes they are Singaporean Chinese. Believe me, they are most hospiatbale people if you get to know them, but again it depends on the type that you meet. I wouldn't judge the whole country on your dislike of an ethnic group from experiences in Thailand.

As for the food, it is still much better than here IMO for the range of foods that are available. Just spent 5 days there last week, and am looking forward to my next trip in April. It is more expensive than Thailand, but still good value in comparison to countries like the UK, other than in the price of an alcoholic drink.

I am currently looking at options to get back down there to work.

As for saying that Australia is more cicilised, oh please, I take it you don't watch much cricket?

[MiG16]

As for saying that Australia is more ciVilised, oh please, I take it you don't watch much cricket?

now now

I live here now...so you be nice boy!

although must admit....the aussies are certainly nice...but polite is a different story

[j_cheung]

Couldn't pay me to live there ... hate the scum !

------------------

Why?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Singapore

For a start I don't like Chinese, who constitute 75% of the population. The Thai-Chinese I can stand because they have been well house-trained by their hosts. But the rest are just plain rude, hard, narrow-minded, dirty, and have disgusting personal habits. Do you really want to live in a country where they have to put up signs everywhere saying 'No Spitting'?

It is by far the most expensive country in S.E. Asia, and it is certainly not good value. The food is nothing special, it's over-cooked and high in unhealthy refined carbohydrates; give me som-tam or sashimi any day.

Remember Nick Leeson? The prison food gave him cancer and they sent him back to sleep on a concrete floor 2 weeks after removing a third of his colon. His stomach staples then split open. Oh, and he was one of the lucky ones to actually be granted a trial rather than a 15-year stretch for unspecified misdemeanors.

Even Singaporeans dream of getting out and migrating somewhere civilised ... like Australia.

I think the no spitting signs are to cater for mainland tourists who are visiting in ever greater numbers. Mainlanders have the most disgusting habits I have ever seen. Was it one of Mao's famous sayings, that started the spitting phenomenon?

It's an engrained cultural habit that took over a generation to erase & not just the Mainlanders' ugly habits -- thanks to the Draconian laws passed the PAP.

[Captain Chaos]

Fascinating thread - and highly entertaining watching people trot out the same tired cliches about Singapore - in the same way that listening to folks back in the UK make 'nudge nudge, wink wink' innuendos about me being married to a Thai is lame and tired...

I lived & worked nearly 5 years in BKK as a full expat. I've now lived in Singapore for about a year and a half. Most people coming into Singapore now, and certainly virtually all those hired when already in Asia, are on cash only or so called 'local plus' deals - I'm one of them. Full expat gigs are becoming rarer as Singapore is hardly a 'hardship posting' now is it? 'Local plus' in Singapore means you should be able to get a $$$ take home salary that will approximate to typical western standards anyway. Good luck achieving that in Thailand...

Singapore is more expensive than Thailand for lots of things, principally property rental, but this is more than offset by the fact that the tax rate is roughly half. Going for a drink at a western style pub or bar is expensive (S$11 / Bt240 ish for a pint) but drinking at your local outdoor hawker centre a little less so (S$8 / Bt176 for a large bottle of beer) and drinking in is cheaper still (6 cans of Singha costs me S$15 from the offie - that works out at 55 baht a can)

If you're prepared to eat out local style in the hawker centres, meals can be cheap - say S$3 to S$4 a head - that's somewhere between 60 and 80 baht - last weekend in BKK a bowl of 'bami tom yam moo' cost me 40 baht at the noodle stall. Singapore is more expensive than Thailand for sure but these are hardly SE England prices are they? Don't want Chinese food? No problem, there's Indian, Malay, Thai, all kinds of western available - ranging from hawker centres to shophouse restaurants to swanky places and price scales to match. "Up to you"...

Singapore's boring, right? Don't me laugh - that line comes from those who are too timid to go anywhere outside Orchard Rd whilst doing their visa runs. East Coast, Sentosa, Changi Village, the zoo, the botanical gardens, various parks scattered across the island, you can even drive across into Malaysia if feeling more adventurous.

Nightlife is arguably better than BKK these days too (certainly open later) and I've never had a Singapore copper ask me to pee into a test tube either ... there are loads of bars and clubs around areas like Clarke Quay or Holland Village for example

"Gentlemen's entertainment"? The "Four Floors" is well known of course and has not only lots of Thai girls (and boys pretending to be girls if that's your thing) but Flippas, Indonesians, lots of Vietnamese (my personal fave - they're still a bit rustic and amateurish), mainland Chinese. S$200 (say Bt 4,400) at the Floors too steep for you? Head over to Geylang and get a bit of local style action. How about a boys night out? No problem, go to the nearest karaoke / KTV lounge and there's almost always a 'private function room' with about 12 chicks of varying nationalities to look after you and your mates...

As a PR you can legally own "landed property" in Singapore ... and anyone can buy a condo or apartment without having to check whether 49% of the block is already sold to the evil farang...

And here's the killer ... it's easy to find employment in Singapore and the visa/work permit process is open & transparent, as is the PR one by all accounts (I don't have it - yet). So if the worst comes to the worst and your cushy expat gig comes to an end for whatever reason, you have a good chance of being able to secure alternate commercial employment on a reasonable salary, rather than having to take the well-worn route of TEFLing because of the difficulty of finding something else in Thailand.

Would I rather be in Thailand? Yes, of course I would, despite all the faults, and because my wife is Thai and being in Singapore just makes life more complicated for us domestically, but the caveat is ONLY if I could find employment where I could earn a decent dollar and have a reasonable chance of developing my career over the next 20 years or so. That kind of gig still exists in Thailand but it's about as common as rocking horse poo these days (I'm in Finance by the way)

Retired, or on a fixed / moderate income? Choose Thailand every time. Still working, want to develop your career, live in SE Asia, and put money in the bank so you can move to Thailand on your own terms later on? Choose Singapore...

Just my two satangs worth...

CC

[Flow]

Personally, I love singapore. Little or no crime, great beaches, great transportation system, clean. Great place and definitely not boring. You can easily cross the Malaysia-Singapore border and visit the rainforests or beaches in Malaysia, or visit the many islands...

[thaihome]

Fascinating thread - and highly entertaining watching people trot out the same tired cliches about Singapore

....

Great post, pretty much sums up my experience with Singapore.

TH

[Prakanong]

CC - excellent post

Says about it all.

I even have Thai colleagues looking for a move here now - schools cheaper for what they want their kids to have plus much safer and an excellent environment for kids to grow up in.

As for the four floors - cheaper than Nana if you know what you are doing. (Not that I would know of course ) LOL

The tax situation is great as well - and at least I know I am getting something for my money in return for the less tax I pay in Singapore compared to Thailand.

Weekends away for play - simple, Batam, Saigon, Bangkok, Cebu etc etc

As I said above - independently wealthy, decent business in Thailand, strong family reasons, retired choose Thailand or where you like.

[Spiny]

Lived and worked in Singapore for 6 years, Thailand 21 years. Married to Singaporean and own property in Singapore and Thailand. Although Singapore has changed over the 34 years that I have known it. When I visit, which I do often, through family obligations, I can stand about 2 days at a time, 1 week tops. Local hawker food, good but not very healthy, although they have recently recognised that high sugar/ high fat content is not so good for you

After a while you realise the sham of it all, from the supposed racial harmony, through to the petty rules and regulations that control the daily lives of the average Singaporean, need permits for everything, the place is more like a prison island. As for their version of the English language, Singlish, I find it really annoying, lah. The Kiasu attitude pervades the majority of the population. Safe yes, but not so safe now, with the influx of new Chinese migrants from HK and mainland China.

I can't wait to get back to the chaos and uncertainty of Thailand. When a government has to tell the population to make courtesy a way of life, flush the toilet, etc then you know there is something very wrong with that country. Very sad recent attempts by the Singapore culture and arts people to create artificial and contrived events to boolster Singapore lack of identity for example Womad.

[Heng]

"Four Floors" is like going to Villa Market but limiting yourself to the stuff they are trying to liquidate because it's nearing its sell-by date (only not exactly the same because it's 2-3 times pricier than the fresh stuff). Doesn't even compare to HK where at least they have S141.

[sbk]

Moved to SE Asia forum

///MOVED///

[Prakanong]

"Four Floors" is like going to Villa Market but limiting yourself to the stuff they are trying to liquidate because it's nearing its sell-by date (only not exactly the same because it's 2-3 times pricier than the fresh stuff). Doesn't even compare to HK where at least they have S141.

You must be looking at different stuff on the shelves to myself

[thaiclan]

The sun shines all year round, the girls are pretty, the food is good, youve no fear of crime, decent schools for kids and its not that expensive in comparison to the West.

Swap it for London anyday.

Well it hasnt stopped raining for the past 2 weeks! Its far wetter than Thailand (Bkk and Pattaya area).

I have a home in Singapore and one in Thailand for the past 2 years and I cant seem to make up my mind which I prefer. It only costs 4k baht return to fly back and forth so thats just what I do! I like Thailand as I have a house with a garden and private pool, but Singapore is far better for me ( young female Brit) for the nightlife with great bars and clubs open until 6am and some 24 hours.

I hate shopping though and I find myself bored at times with limited activities to do whereas in Thailand Id chill in my garden.

Food is more expensive for me in Pattaya. I dont eat much Asian food and a good western meal in a nice restaurant is much cheaper in Singapore. Even Hard Rock Cafe is 30% cheaper here than in Pattaya...

Also an airconditioned saloon taxi is cheaper than a songtaew...? how does THAT figure?

I do prefer the Thai locals I must admit. far more smiley and laid back than the rat race members pounding the MRT every morning and evening.

Singapore zoo is a fave, but then so is Khao Keow. I do worry that maybe some of the inner Pattaya sites are not appropriate for my 6 year old daughter so find myself avoiding those areas in Thailand whereas Singapore is much more family and child friendly.

Better internet speed and no annoying local cable TV which is akin to sticking pins in my eyes! hahah

So the jury is out. What I do know for sure...They both beat the UK hands down!

[game4shame]

Nightlife is arguably better than BKK

key word - 'arguably'.

I'm certainly no expert on singapore but I wasn't impressed with the nightlife - booze was expensive and I couldn't find anywhere with a buzzing atmosphere.

the orchard 'four floors' joint has been mentioned - the place is a total dump.

bar the nightlife, singapore has alot going for it IMO.

[thaiclan]

Nightlife is arguably better than BKK

key word - 'arguably'.

I'm certainly no expert on singapore but I wasn't impressed with the nightlife - booze was expensive and I couldn't find anywhere with a buzzing atmosphere.

the orchard 'four floors' joint has been mentioned - the place is a total dump.

bar the nightlife, singapore has alot going for it IMO.

Depends what you are looking for I suppose. Clarke Quay is always "buzzing" with people milling around and visiting the variety of bars, clubs and restaurants. There are excellent live bands to watch as well as pretty full on dance clubs or techno music - whatever takes your fancy.

At the end of every month One Nite Stand bar (Clarke Quay) has British and Aussie comedians doing live stand up comedy which is hilarious to watch and so different to anything Thailand (Pattaya Im talking about unfortunately) have to offer.

Fopr more clubbing St James Power station is converted and there are about 12 clubs housed under one roof 0 everything from Cuban, Salsa techno, garage and dance....

Then the city area has the usual wine bar and bistro get-ups for the city slickers.

Thailand just doesnt compare

Also...not on my menu but ladies for sale are everywhere. My male friend recently came to stay and he paid $40 (about 900baht) for a russian girl, then a couple of nights later paid a bit less for a Vietnamese.....

So does this compare to Thailand?? ....

[clausewitz]

Cities get ranked up and down depending on who is doing the survey. I lived near Fukuoka for years and find it pretty average - although far more interesting than Singapore which is near the top for boring places. Tokyo is ok, but stressful. Pusan is nice for a holiday and has casinos and a passable beach, but very small...Overall I think Bangkok is the most pleasant place to live with high quality, cheap accomodation, variety of restaurants, gyms at bargain prices, swimming pools etc.

http:/Fukuoka Asia's best city, Asiaweek says

Asian Economic News, Dec 13, 1999

Fukuoka has overtaken Tokyo to become the best city in Asia to live and work in this year, Hong Kong-based regional magazine Asiaweek said in a statement Wednesday.

The southwestern Japanese city ranked No. 1 in quality of living among some 40 Asian cities surveyed by Asiaweek on factors such as economic opportunity, quality of education, health care, transportation, personal security, housing costs and leisure.

Fukuoka, which, according to the magazine, enjoys a growing reputation as a cosmopolitan trendsetter in Japan, also came first in the poll in 1997.

Fukuoka Mayor Hirotaro Yamazaki, however, was quoted as saying he thinks South Korea's Pusan is the most improved city.

Pusan, an international trade port and the host of the 2002 Asian Games, has improved the local economy, promoted tourism and redeveloped the city, Yamazaki said. But Pusan did not make the top 10 list of the annual survey, which is included in the issue of the magazine out Friday.

Tokyo, which bested Fukuoka in last year's survey, fell to fourth this year, Asiaweek said.

Osaka is ranked No. 2 in the latest city survey, moving up from third last year.

Bangkok Gov. Bhichit Rattakul reportedly said Osaka impresses him most, praising the city for improving its air quality, its convenient mass transportation system and its city planning.

Taipei shared second ranking with Osaka, a jump from fifth in 1998.

/findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0WDP/is_1999_Dec_13/ai_58532822

[Captain Chaos]

Nightlife is arguably better than BKK

key word - 'arguably'.

I'm certainly no expert on singapore but I wasn't impressed with the nightlife - booze was expensive and I couldn't find anywhere with a buzzing atmosphere.

the orchard 'four floors' joint has been mentioned - the place is a total dump.

bar the nightlife, singapore has alot going for it IMO.

I agree - it is a dump (albeit a famous dump) that's why I mentioned a few alternatives - complaining that the Floors is a dump is like saying that Patpong is a sh*thole full of low lives - talk about stating the obvious

Loadsa other places - what Thaiclan said - plus a few other places such as Emerald Hill for example - but of course, it all depends on what your scene is.

And no I am not suggesting for one moment that you can't have a good night out in Bangkok - I was more responding to the 'Singapore is dull' nonsense which is usually spouted by folks who don't know the place...

Oh, One Nite Stand is good but have to say that the comedy nights at the Bulls Head in BKK are a bit better, imho - dunno about Patters but would guess that's not a natural scene for stand-up comedy...

CC

[mrtoad]

Nightlife is arguably better than BKK

key word - 'arguably'.

I'm certainly no expert on singapore but I wasn't impressed with the nightlife - booze was expensive and I couldn't find anywhere with a buzzing atmosphere.

the orchard 'four floors' joint has been mentioned - the place is a total dump.

bar the nightlife, singapore has alot going for it IMO.

I agree - it is a dump (albeit a famous dump) that's why I mentioned a few alternatives - complaining that the Floors is a dump is like saying that Patpong is a sh*thole full of low lives - talk about stating the obvious

Loadsa other places - what Thaiclan said - plus a few other places such as Emerald Hill for example - but of course, it all depends on what your scene is.

And no I am not suggesting for one moment that you can't have a good night out in Bangkok - I was more responding to the 'Singapore is dull' nonsense which is usually spouted by folks who don't know the place...

Oh, One Nite Stand is good but have to say that the comedy nights at the Bulls Head in BKK are a bit better, imho - dunno about Patters but would guess that's not a natural scene for stand-up comedy...

CC

So many people say that S'pore is dull, I do wonder how well they know the place, or if they have ever been. Thanks to Captain Chaos for some good posts.

There has and still is plenty of variety for night life. Clarke Quay, Roberston Quay,Emerald Hill, Boat Quay,Mohammed Sultan, St James, Orchard Towers, all those other places like B -One, Thumper, Bricks etc in the hotels, Geylang, Holland Village and lots of other places dotted around the place, Zouk, Velvet etc, etc. It easy to get to most of the places as the MRT coverage is excellent, and getting a taxi at night although more expensive than BKK, you certainly aren't going to have negotiate or have any hassle from the drivers and they always have change. PLaces stay open a dam_n sight later, I was out until 4.30 in B-one on Friday night and followed that up with another late night watching football and rugby before tucking into some decent Thai food at the end of the evening. A good range of beers available, and although more expensive far if you know where to go, there are some fairly resonable places around, ICB has been a favourite of mine since the mid 90's (great range of beers and the chicken wings and pizzas are great), alongwith a few pints of Guiness in Muddy Murphy's right next to the infamous OT, which although people have said is a dump is still a great place to have a bit of fun and have a few beers.

Anyway, I've been going to S'pore since 1990 on a regular basis, and I still love the place, and I can't think of a better place to live and work with the right employment package.

[Prakanong]

And I just discovered why Harry's is called Harry's

The guy who started the original (American older guy not Mohan the main guy now) was next to me at the bar listening to some jazz the other night.

[wayfarer108]

Nightlife is arguably better than BKK

key word - 'arguably'.

I'm certainly no expert on singapore but I wasn't impressed with the nightlife - booze was expensive and I couldn't find anywhere with a buzzing atmosphere.

the orchard 'four floors' joint has been mentioned - the place is a total dump.

bar the nightlife, singapore has alot going for it IMO.

I agree - it is a dump (albeit a famous dump) that's why I mentioned a few alternatives - complaining that the Floors is a dump is like saying that Patpong is a sh*thole full of low lives - talk about stating the obvious

Loadsa other places - what Thaiclan said - plus a few other places such as Emerald Hill for example - but of course, it all depends on what your scene is.

And no I am not suggesting for one moment that you can't have a good night out in Bangkok - I was more responding to the 'Singapore is dull' nonsense which is usually spouted by folks who don't know the place...

Oh, One Nite Stand is good but have to say that the comedy nights at the Bulls Head in BKK are a bit better, imho - dunno about Patters but would guess that's not a natural scene for stand-up comedy...

CC

So many people say that S'pore is dull, I do wonder how well they know the place, or if they have ever been. Thanks to Captain Chaos for some good posts.

There has and still is plenty of variety for night life. Clarke Quay, Roberston Quay,Emerald Hill, Boat Quay,Mohammed Sultan, St James, Orchard Towers, all those other places like B -One, Thumper, Bricks etc in the hotels, Geylang, Holland Village and lots of other places dotted around the place, Zouk, Velvet etc, etc. It easy to get to most of the places as the MRT coverage is excellent, and getting a taxi at night although more expensive than BKK, you certainly aren't going to have negotiate or have any hassle from the drivers and they always have change. PLaces stay open a dam_n sight later, I was out until 4.30 in B-one on Friday night and followed that up with another late night watching football and rugby before tucking into some decent Thai food at the end of the evening. A good range of beers available, and although more expensive far if you know where to go, there are some fairly resonable places around, ICB has been a favourite of mine since the mid 90's (great range of beers and the chicken wings and pizzas are great), alongwith a few pints of Guiness in Muddy Murphy's right next to the infamous OT, which although people have said is a dump is still a great place to have a bit of fun and have a few beers.

Anyway, I've been going to S'pore since 1990 on a regular basis, and I still love the place, and I can't think of a better place to live and work with the right employment package.

The key is your last phrase, 'with the right employment package'. It's the most expensive place in SE Asia so you need to be making good money to enjoy Singapore.

[shochu]

Ah yes - singapore is fine if you have a good package which I suspect that most do not have - which most of the expats I meet there like to brag about but whenever we go out for drinks - if they can't expense it - then they are tight with their wad.

The quay and all those places are so toursity I would never go ever again and dam_n boring too.

Singapore is fine if you want a good safer place for the family and you want to reminisce about those long gone colonial days. Many expats like sing because they get treated well there and are stars in the eyes of the local ladies - but once you venter further out to the sticks where most of the gov't housing people live then you see the real sing and then you realize that hey - this place is a sugar coated place where we should only hang out in our expat mandated zones.

Funny how most of the singaporeans I meet want to leave the place - wonder why?

Sorry guys - if you like sing but hey just telling it like i see it.

Bangkok - and I am surprised about this as I have never lived there - has many places open very late - places that get started when other places are closing - which I won't name here to cause headaches for them.

The funnest city in asia is by far Tokyo. Fukuoka is not bad if you know where you are going - much like tokyo - but you must have a japanese friend showing you where to go.

Pusan - small - give me a break. It has over 4 million people. It is spread out over many areas because of the mountains and sea so maybe you thought you were in pusan when you were just in one section. Also a fun place.

[Prakanong]

So the expats you meet will only spend money if they can expense it -- what guys are you meeting as I know no-one who expenses their bevvy nights out?

Oh the local girls - the famous SPG''s - are you talking about the 1970's here?

[mrtoad]

So the expats you meet will only spend money if they can expense it -- what guys are you meeting as I know no-one who expenses their bevvy nights out?

Oh the local girls - the famous SPG''s - are you talking about the 1970's here?

Quite right, although I tend to hang out mainly with locals, the Ex-pats that I do know do not go around putting bevvies on expenses that often. As you have said PK it depends who you meet.

As for places that Sochu mentioned, yeah some of them are touristy, but some of them are far from boring, and a few that I mentioned hardly have any ex-pats in. There are other places that I go, but not really for tourists and they would stick out like a sore thumb. As for HBD's yeah some of them aren't so great, but it is still much safer and I have never had a problem walking around them (my ex lived in one Tao Payoh).

Anyway, in the end a place is what you make it, not what others do for you.