Fight The Plastic Bags And Bottles!

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Some of you might have seen a few posts by yours truly about the above topic.

It is so increadibly easy to help cutting down on the use of plastic bags, just bring a few sturdy reusable canvas bags to the supermarket. I would still retain like 10% of the plastic bags for now, to use for garbage desposal, but in the future, try to get rid of these as well.

Newpapers and tin cans are easily recycled, your maid will be happy to take these items off you and sell them. I don't know about glass bottles, but plastic bottles should be resellable as well. But for an investment into high quality water filters under your sink, you can have safe drinking water without all the plastic.

What I would like is to see TV forum members rising to the challenge (no pun OK), and help to get this going as a community improvement affair. Over to you guys and gals!

[spasticated]

if every Thai picked up the bags and bottles they dumped they wouldnt need to make any more for a very long time.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

"if every Thai picked up the bags and bottles they dumped they wouldnt need to make any more for a very long time".

Thanks for that very insightful and indeed helpful piece of commentary spasticated. Just let your creative juices flow. See, now you feel better.

I am thinking of doing a walk around the lake (Mabprachan), get a few people together, lots of garbage bags and gloves, and just start somewhere. It will never be enough, but perhaps a start? Or am I wasting my time here?

Anyone?

Gib? Moby? Monty? Naam? Raro? All you others?

It might be a fun thing to do as well as useful. I shall leave it to simmer for a few days, and see if we get a critical mass.

[offset]

I believe all of these items are collected for cash we have a van comes round twice a week to buy these items I know that the going rate for cans is 2 cans 1 baht beer bottles 8 baht one box I do not know the price for plastic bottles and bags

[Austhaied]

Thailand is an incredibly dirty country in terms of garbage and litter and the Thais are uneducated and short-sighted when it comes to using stuff like plastics and the effect they have on the environment.

You are wasting time with your efforts as the Thais always think they know better so leading by example is not possible.

When they come to realise the effects on their environment in real terms they will understand, but unfortunately it will be already too late.

What a load of "rubbish" ..

Chiang Mai is a very clean city in my opinion. The locals are fairly aware of their surroundings and keeping them looking good.

It's a real pity you see Thailand the way you do...

Remember...You can't change the world...but you can change the way you see it..

[DirkGently]

This is an excellent post! Many people think that because they are not in their own country that their carbon footprint is in someway less important. Tut! Tut!

I seperate me glass(beer bottles) in one bag and paper into another. I scrape my kitchen goods into another. It's not perfect, but it's OK.

I also re-fill my water bottles. Think about the 10000000000000s of bottles that are dumped every day.

[DirkGently]

Austhaied, please take a look around. Take a train once in a while and marvel at the plastic coated track side bushes.

Thais are staggeringly ignorant towards the enviroment. I have argued with a local car service shop when I watched him pour brake fluid down a drain for the umteenth time. He thought I was crazy that the fluid he was waving goodbye to was possiblely a danger to him and all of us.

And before you boast about Chang Mai, remember that it has worse air quality than BKK at various times of the year.

[dee123]

.....now knowing Thaivisa as I do this might just be a little bit complicated for some of you but never the less here goes;...........Why don't we get the bastards who manufacture and sell this garbage to pay a "rubish Tax".........any questions please contact Tesco management......

[daveh]

Plastic bottle recycling is one of the biggest cons of the last couple of decades. People figure that since plastic bottles are recyclable, it is okay to buy them, then recycle them, thus saving the environment. This increases the demand for plastic bottles. The problem is that once a plastic bottle is recycled, it is made into a material that is not very recyclable and thus ends up in a landfill. So all those plastic bottles eventually end up in the landfill in some form. Aluminum and glass are much much better in this respect. Just avoid buying plastic when possible.

[dee123]

.....i'm just curious but does anyone know what the green lobby's view is on stainless steel......anyone shed light on this?

[Gumballl]

Environmentalism is a luxury that many poor countries cannot afford. It's easy for western-minded people to criticize these countries, however many western countries were in the past, and still are today, the biggest polluters in the world.

I try to recycle as much as possible in the US, but when I am in the rural areas of Thailand, no trash pickup is available. One must make an effort to collect recyclables, then take it (at their own expense!) to a place where the recyclables can be redeemed for a mere pittance. There is an obvious environment benefit to this venture, however financially speaking, there is no benefit whatsoever. Few will see the point of recycling in such cases.

So I would not point fingers at the Thai people, but instead at their government. Maybe someday the government will have the wisdom to tax everyone as heavily as in the western countries, perhaps with a hefty property tax, so that recycling plants can be constructed, and that a weekly trash pickup service can be provided to each an every community in Thailand. I for one will not hold my breath waiting for this to happen.

[Austhaied]

Environmentalism is a luxury that many poor countries cannot afford. It's easy for western-minded people to criticize these countries, however many western countries were in the past, and still are today, the biggest polluters in the world.

I try to recycle as much as possible in the US, but when I am in the rural areas of Thailand, no trash pickup is available. One must make an effort to collect recyclables, then take it (at their own expense!) to a place where the recyclables can be redeemed for a mere pittance. There is an obvious environment benefit to this venture, however financially speaking, there is no benefit whatsoever. Few will see the point of recycling in such cases.

So I would not point fingers at the Thai people, but instead at their government. Maybe someday the government will have the wisdom to tax everyone as heavily as in the western countries, perhaps with a hefty property tax, so that recycling plants can be constructed, and that a weekly trash pickup service can be provided to each an every community in Thailand. I for one will not hold my breath waiting for this to happen.

Good post. Well said.

My wife has mentioned that because they used to wrap everything in banana leaves or some other organic material, they still have their "ingrained" habits of just tossing things on the floor.

I guess they just don't seem to see that the plastic doesn't "bio-degrade".

Makes sense i guess.

Although i never said it's right.

It has to be implemented into our young children's minds before we / they can break that cycle for good.

Edited March 14, 2008 by Austhaied

[surface]

and that a weekly trash pickup service can be provided to each an every community in Thailand.

Many rural places in the US don't have trash pickup. You have to take your trash to the local garbage dump or drop off location. It seems a bit less likely in rural Thailand if most people have motor bikes... or perhaps more people have cars/pickup's these days?

[spasticated]

<br /><i>"if every Thai picked up the bags and bottles they dumped they wouldnt need to make any more for a very long time".</i><br /><br />Thanks for that very insightful and indeed helpful piece of commentary spasticated. Just let your creative juices flow. See, now you feel better.<br /><br />I am thinking of doing a walk around the lake (Mabprachan), get a few people together, lots of garbage bags and gloves, and just start somewhere. It will never be enough, but perhaps a start? Or am I wasting my time here?<br /><br />Anyone?<br /><br />Gib? Moby? Monty? Naam? Raro? All you others?<br /><br />It might be a fun thing to do as well as useful. I shall leave it to simmer for a few days, and see if we get a critical mass.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

No No Ive got more, round up all the monks sitting around doing bugger all and get them to clean up Thailand most of its on their doorsteps anyway. Try the beaches near Chumphon, temple right at the end of one of em beach full of rubbish, monks gazing out to sea etc.

NOW I feel better thanks!

[Maigo6]

Thailand is an incredibly dirty country in terms of garbage and litter and the Thais are uneducated and short-sighted when it comes to using stuff like plastics and the effect they have on the environment.

You are wasting time with your efforts as the Thais always think they know better so leading by example is not possible.

When they come to realise the effects on their environment in real terms they will understand, but unfortunately it will be already too late.

Not many plastic bottles go to waste, they are picked up and sold for recycling.

Edited March 15, 2008 by Maigo6

[spasticated]

<br />Thailand is an incredibly dirty country in terms of garbage and litter and the Thais are uneducated and short-sighted when it comes to using stuff like plastics and the effect they have on the environment.<br /><br />You are wasting time with your efforts as the Thais always think they know better so leading by example is not possible.<br /><br />When they come to realise the effects on their environment in real terms they will understand, but unfortunately it will be already too late.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

CORRECT on all counts! (remember its just my opinion..... and Tuds too)

[Samuian]

Environmentalism is a luxury that many poor countries cannot afford. It's easy for western-minded people to criticize these countries, however many western countries were in the past, and still are today, the biggest polluters in the world.

yes, and what does this mean concerning environmental awareness? - Very thai "mai pen rai" attitude..!

So we can say, hmmm.. "You've done the same before, let us spill our garbage where we want, as long we want and shut the heck up!"?

Would this be the right way- or does it just pose another insult at human intelligence?

If one has made a certain discovery, experience, why not pass it on?

if you know the water, this person is going to drink, is polluted and dangerous to consume, would you warn him/her or would you lean back and say:"ahhh s/he'll find out sooner or later..." ?

So I would not point fingers at the Thai people, but instead at their government. Maybe someday the government will have the wisdom to tax everyone as heavily as in the western countries, perhaps with a hefty property tax, so that recycling plants can be constructed, and that a weekly trash pickup service can be provided to each an every community in Thailand. I for one will not hold my breath waiting for this to happen.

it's NOT about pointing fingers at anyone, it's about RAISING AWARENESS!

On the market they always have a big grin on their faces when I present my basket or cotton bag for the goods and refuse to have them all packed in single plastic bags...but they understand!

On top I always leave some comment like... "too many bags already!" or "Keep the country clean!"

"They" certainly aren't ignorant, "they" simply don't know! Many even think it's quite a "chic-commodity"... and "take away" is just as "hip"!

Plastic bags are just the tip of the iceberg... Starbucks, McDonalds, Pizza Hut etc. all these take away Containers, Drink Containers, Drinking Straws (at 7/11 always, even without request added to EVERY Drink you buy!)

The zillions of little plastic bags containing dips and sauces...

Isn't it about time these large companies, which are global players anyway, to do something about the tonnes of environment polluting waste they produce with every sale they put into their accounts?

my 2 cents..

Edited March 15, 2008 by Samuian

[spasticated]

I also suggest every TV member stands next to the man/woman/manwoman in every shopping mall entrance and pedestrian bridge taking back the useless leaflets they hand you 99% end up on the floor so the Thai copuld give them out and you could take them straight back.

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Thanks to all for posting, it seems there is some interest, but also some apathy, which is very understandable. But using fabric shopping nets and filtering your own water (or use the big resuable containers) is at least something, that takes very little effort. So if more people did that, it would be nice. As for the clean-up effort, I have so far got 37 PM's from people ready to start NO! So I guess we can call that well and truly cancelled for now. I guess it was a bit naive after all.

But I am still astonished that very few people seem to notice or care about all the litter everywhere. Last weekend we went for a walk on the beach from The Dusit up to the Sanctuary of truth. A nice walk, with plenty of restos along the way. I think much nicer than Jomtien. Some stretches of the beach were clean, but for instance just north of Dusit, huge abounts of garbage. One would think that a big hotel would do their bit to keep "their" beach clean at least. If every business, condo and resto did their little stretch of beach, and city hall provided garbage bins and regular emptying, this area could become very nice. Just imagine...

Oh well, I shall stop now, again thanks to those that care, and does whatever they can, big or small.

Just noticed the post about leaflets, I hear many people will take the leaflets even if they are not interested, just to support the erson handing them out. Hmmm

[Korat88]

So I would not point fingers at the Thai people, but instead at their government. Maybe someday the government will have the wisdom to tax everyone as heavily as in the western countries, perhaps with a hefty property tax, so that recycling plants can be constructed, and that a weekly trash pickup service can be provided to each an every community in Thailand. I for one will not hold my breath waiting for this to happen.

Samuian[/b]] it's NOT about pointing fingers at anyone, it's about RAISING AWARENESS!

On the market they always have a big grin on their faces when I present my basket or cotton bag for the goods and refuse to have them all packed in single plastic bags...but they understand!

On top I always leave some comment like... "too many bags already!" or "Keep the country clean!"...................

This is my experience here in a Middle Eastern country as well. I also say there is no need for plastic bags when shopping and get laughs + "looks". There has been a drive in the press to cut-down on the polution caused by these bags and now some supermarkets sell cloth-type bags to assist shoppers. However, the object of the excercise is defeated by the 'helpers' who work for the store sticking to their habits and putting items into the bags before putting them into the re-useable bags just purchased. There have also been reports of some supermarkets stopping people from bringing in the re-useable bags since they are a shop-lifting threat. They have to be left at the desk at the entrance! The idea may be there, but it needs a lot more time to get everyone working in sync.

[teatree]

This is an excellent post! Many people think that because they are not in their own country that their carbon footprint is in someway less important. Tut! Tut!

I seperate me glass(beer bottles) in one bag and paper into another. I scrape my kitchen goods into another. It's not perfect, but it's OK.

I also re-fill my water bottles. Think about the 10000000000000s of bottles that are dumped every day.

I agree that we should be using less plastic bags etc..BUT

People, please educate yourself about the real facts about global warming and the 'carbon footprint'.

Global warming (and cooling) are natural phenomena and are NOT caused by human activity. I know that the correlation between the level of C02 and temp fits perfectly, as stated in Gore's film, BUT what he doesn't tell you is that temp goes up FIRST then C02 goes up. In other words temperature drives C02, not the other way round!

Do yourself a favour and research some of the hundreds of articles available on the subject or watch 'The Great Global Warming Swindle' on the net.

They don't want us to stop emitting carbon, they just want to TAX us even more.

[billd766]

I live outside of a small village in central Thailand and yes there is a lot of plastic bags strewn around plus the plastic cups/glasses especially during the market days. There does not seem to be any trash bins available on the site to dump the trash in though after the markets close there are people going around cleaning up the trash.

Closer to home I can understand the use of plastic bags as if you buy a drink in a glass bottle to take away mostly it is put in the bag along with the ice as the seller will lose money if you take the bottle, cooked food such as sausages, fried bananas etc are the same if you take then away.

In my car there is always a trash bag and my son at 3 1/2 always puts his trash in that or in the bins at home and we do get a trash collection once a week which costs an enormous 30 baht a month. I think this get taken somewhere and the trash sorted out with colectables removed for resale so in some places Thais are trying to improve but it is an uphill job.

[kannon99]

Whether you believe in Global Warming or not, we should still be good stewards of the earth.

I was so excited to see that the maids in our building were recycling EVERYTHING. I even asked them to show me what they recycle, so I can set aside and put in one bag for them. They see it as $$$$ but I see it differently. I save my friends recycables if they're just going to toss them. I use a plastic container and when I go to the food court, I ask them to put the food in my container instead.

Changing how I think, or any culture thinks, does not happen over night. It can take decades to change to a recycling society. "each one reach one" is my motto. One of my Thai neighbors swapped over to cloth diapers after seeing me use them so easily. No more disposables!!! Another is cleaning her house with no chemicals after seeing me do the same. (And let me tell you, my helper is NOT happy that we don't use Windex anymore!) Another is putting leftovers and drinks in jars instead of tupperwares/plastics/disposables after seeing how easily I have a stash of jars under the sink that can be used for anything.

Thank you for starting this discussion!

[Wombat6]

It all begins with Educating people as to the ramifications of discarding rubbish....a good start would be for teachers advising students of the problems which can arise. For most older Thais...they are used to throwing stuff away...but...as most Thais follow whatever the King says or does, perhaps the Thai environmental agencies could make a submission to his Royal Highness for his assistance. It is a worthy project to clean up Thailand !!

[realmadrid25]

if i put all my plastic in a bag will one of them take it and recycle it? they only seem interested in plastic bottles....

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Isara, way to go, splendid idea to involve schoolkids and students in these efforts. Not only do you get the immediate benefit of the cleanup, but also hopefully sowing the seeds to a lasting benefit of not creating the problem in the first place. Root cause vs symptom approach. But it will take a bit more organising and stuff than 5 old TV geezers tidying up around the pub for half an hour, before going back to the bar...

As for global warming, that was not my motivation, and I know too little to discuss it.

To reduce the usage of scare oil resources, and clean up around where we live were my main points. If it does help in other ways as well, e.g. by being profitable and creating employment, fine. In a capitalistic, free market world, profit is the driver of most progress, but it cannot be left totally unchecked. But I do not subscribe to the view that I read on TV about smoking. The poster said that we could not all stop smoking, since millions of people would lose their jobs... He-he, this will be a long process, and people will adapt, and resourcs used in other than cigarette (and plastic packaging) production in the future.

Apart from reducing/eliminating the use of plastics, we sort our garbage for the maid, so she can sell alu cans and newspapers for recycling. As long as the industry is paying for this input, it has value and will be used.