Thai "beach Boys" And The Like

[girlx]

having spent much time on the larger islands in thailand and observed the ways of the thai beach boys from a cultural and habitual perspective, i feel it might be helpful to put out some advice for those new girls to thailand who find themselves interested in a thai beach boy, as i am so tired and depressed at seeing these young, beautiful, naive girls come to thailand with no knowledge of the culture or situation and getting beat, cheated on, lied to, left pregnant or sick with STDs, and publicly humiliated by one of these guys, and sent home crying their eyes out, their self esteem ruined.

here's the deal, and you might think i am being overly harsh but i could refer you to plenty of girls who learned the hard way:

- it's all about sex, not love. thai guys have to work very hard and even pay money to a thai girl's family before she will let him in. in contrast, farang girls on holiday will jump right into bed with the boys, and it's free! they have many girls to choose from, you are not important to them. every single week there arrives a new load of nubile, easy tourist girls. i have seen so many times the boys take their "girlfriend" of the week to the boat to leave, and they wait there for the next boat to pull in and pick up whatever stupid girl is on it. face it, these guys get these jobs many time because thai girls do not want them. they work around farang girls because they know it is easy and free to get them in bed. every single one of these girls thinks they are special, and that their new man is "different" and they soon find out they are wrong.

- they lie. they will say absolutely ANYTHING to get you to sleep with them. it is a game. there is a lot of backslapping with their friends when they succeed in picking you up. they will lie about their age, marital status, how much money they make, everything in their past. the goal is simply to win. this is the same in every culture but in a tourist area it becomes a lot more hard core.

-they are not safe. you need to wear condoms, and if you don't, god help you. these guys sleep with an insane number of girls, and some with boys as well. even if you have been together for a couple weeks, that doesn't mean it is safe to stop wearing condoms. if yu want to do that, go get both of you tested first.

-some of these guys are serious criminals. you might think it is glamorous to date a drug dealer, but look up the drug laws in thailand. it isn't fun to watch your boyfriend out of his head every night either. a lot of the boys i know have actually raped and/or murdered someone in the past! they definitely aren't going to tell you this themself. they also can be very violent, and no one is going to tell you that they beat the crap out of the last little english girl who was here because everyone around them is afraid of repercussions. a good rule to keep in mind is that if there are any long term farang girls around, and they seem wary of discussing your man, it is because they have been threatened. if they drop you any hints, take them seriously- they have seen these guys in action. the stupidest thing you can do is run right back to the guy saying "so and so said"- in the long run you will have sabatoged the only support network available to you.

- if they get you pregnant and want to marry you in a short amount of time, they probably want a visa to your country. most of the girls i know who got pregnant were abandoned by their boyfriend for the next sweet young thing. as for marriage, it doesn't stop most of them from cheating. do some reading on thai culture, visit their family, look at their friends and position in society, and ask yourself "do i really know and trust this guy to build a life with?" before you get ahead of yourself. some of these guys are very poor and see you as their meal ticket. don't trust an offer of free land either. nothing is free.

beach boys have a bad reputation, and it is well deserved. don't assume that all thai men are the same (there are lots of nice thai guys around, but it seems like once they become too involved with the tourist industry they get jaded and hard), and there are even one or two of the beach boys that turn out to be ok in the long run. but there are far, far more broken heart stories than good ones in this element of society. generally speaking, if you meet a young, good looking guy in a tourist area, who speaks decent english, has a tattoo or piercing or farang style clothes, who says he is a dj, who twirls fire, or who works at a bar, they are most likely professionals with a long history. the worst ones i have met are on koh chang, in bangkok, and on koh phangan. make sure you know what you are in for. it's cool to come and have fun for a week or so on your holiday, but it is when you start taking it more seriously that you will have problems. you have to be willing to work through a lot of crap over a long period of time before there is a possibility of a successful relationship. if you don't plan on staying in thailand, then forget about it. watch out for number one, and good luck.

[sbk]

I've always called it "Flavor of the month" but sounds like "flavor of the week" would be more appropriate.

All good advice, girlx, regardless of who you meet. Take it easy, take it slow. When a girl comes and she doesn't understand the language and she doesn't understand the culture it is very easy to get swayed by sweet talk and exotic looks without really understanding the underlying currents of behavior and culture that makes up that person. Add in to the mix someone who sees foreign women as easy and gets women throwing themselves at them on a regular basis, and you have a jaded individual who is, most likely, not that concerned with you personally.

And, as girlx has pointed out, there are some nice ones, and they aren't all like that, but a girl should always put her own well-being ahead of a guy she's just met on the beach. So, best advice, be safe, and take it very slow. Learn more about the guy before committing oneself to a relationship.

[girlx]

more info on dating thai guys in general

www.thai-blogs.com/index.php/2005/03/04/dos_and_donts_of_dating_a_thai_guy?blog=8

[donna]

i think the main thing to remember is that if you wouldnt go out with a guy like this at home, then why would you go out with one like this in thailand? the long hair/tattoos/piercings dont do it for me any more. maybe it used to in my younger years, but im older and wiser now!

give me a clean bloke any day now.

good advice girlx.

[PattayaParent]

Great advice that is equally applicable to the men that come to visit Thailand too.

[Aries74]

Good advice girlx.

If you are in a tourist area, regardless of culture, or what the guy tell you, women should be careful. If you are a tourist or just visiting for a short period of time, and you want to give it up to some guy you just met then it's a fair game. If a girl give it up that fast whose to blame. Samething with farang male, if a thai women hop all over you then you should be careful.

I agreed with you, farangs newbie should be careful. I hate seeing farangs/tourists getting scams or ripoff.

Thanks very good advice girlx.

[RueFang]

I also have to say it's true and can't disagree with anything in that post! I look back and cringe at my naivety when I first arrived in Thailand... first stop Koh Tao. Met a 'beach boy' (didn't know it at the time obviously!) on the boat on the way over, wouldn't you know it! He convinced me to rent a place for a month (which is actually lucky since I missed the tsunami on the other side). After about a month his friend's wife told me that a few years before he had broken her jaw when he was drunk and all the Thai women couldn't understand how he got so many beautiful farang girlfriends when he's such an alcoholic loser. Answer - he is gorgeous and says all the right things! NAIVE to the extreme, but girls right off the boat have no clue. I suppose it's on a par with men being sucked into the dating a bar girl scene. How would you know if you've never read anything about it. I for one knew little about Thailand before landing here as I had never planned to come here for more then a couple of weeks.. it was just going to be a brief stop off on my round the world trip.

As girlx says, it's all well and good to have some fun on your holiday as long as you see it for what it is. A holiday shag. If you have any common sense or intuition you'll be able to know if he's a player after a couple of weeks of watching him in action. They are professionals so trust your instincts.

[burman]

With a bit of sun. smarm and sang som most of this good practical advice will unfortunately fall on deaf ears.

[ThaiWanderer68]

Good post. Also liked the other website/blog you posted a link to.

From my observations, this is proportionally just as common for foreign women in Thailand as it is for foreign men in Thailand. The main diff being Thailand gets more male visitors. The comments would apply equally for either, as do the getting taken for a ride.

It's also not limited to beach boys either. Only thislunch time an obvious foreign tourist had picked up a guy from wherever, and had taken him for lunch. He had a large grin on his face as the bill came and was diverted straight to the foreign woman. The relationship was probably obvious to most in the restaurant, with the exception of the naive holday maker in question.

I do believe that people in the west are generally brought up to trust others unless someone gives them reason to do otherwise. This often makes them sitting ducks in Thailand. Then again I was no different either on arival many years back.

[Aries74]

Good post. Also liked the other website/blog you posted a link to.

From my observations, this is proportionally just as common for foreign women in Thailand as it is for foreign men in Thailand. The main diff being Thailand gets more male visitors. The comments would apply equally for either, as do the getting taken for a ride.

It's also not limited to beach boys either. Only thislunch time an obvious foreign tourist had picked up a guy from wherever, and had taken him for lunch. He had a large grin on his face as the bill came and was diverted straight to the foreign woman. The relationship was probably obvious to most in the restaurant, with the exception of the naive holday maker in question.

I do believe that people in the west are generally brought up to trust others unless someone gives them reason to do otherwise. This often makes them sitting ducks in Thailand. Then again I was no different either on arival many years back.

I'm not farang, but I agreed with you. The sad thing is that farang are not mean/tough enough to get them back when they come to the west.

[RueFang]

It's also not limited to beach boys either. Only thislunch time an obvious foreign tourist had picked up a guy from wherever, and had taken him for lunch. He had a large grin on his face as the bill came and was diverted straight to the foreign woman. The relationship was probably obvious to most in the restaurant, with the exception of the naive holday maker in question.

I wonder if this is how my husband and I are perceived in public as I always pay the bill! Not that it's my money, it's our money that we earn together, but Thai men generally never carry money when the wife's around as it's the woman's 'role' to handle the cash... which suits me just fine

[cmsally]

It's also not limited to beach boys either. Only thislunch time an obvious foreign tourist had picked up a guy from wherever, and had taken him for lunch. He had a large grin on his face as the bill came and was diverted straight to the foreign woman. The relationship was probably obvious to most in the restaurant, with the exception of the naive holday maker in question.

I wonder if this is how my husband and I are perceived in public as I always pay the bill! Not that it's my money, it's our money that we earn together, but Thai men generally never carry money when the wife's around as it's the woman's 'role' to handle the cash... which suits me just fine

I was wondering the same. I always pay, but then my husband gives me all his money, so I would be paying with his money or maybe my money; it's all thrown in together so who knows.

[sbk]

It's also not limited to beach boys either. Only thislunch time an obvious foreign tourist had picked up a guy from wherever, and had taken him for lunch. He had a large grin on his face as the bill came and was diverted straight to the foreign woman. The relationship was probably obvious to most in the restaurant, with the exception of the naive holday maker in question.

I wonder if this is how my husband and I are perceived in public as I always pay the bill! Not that it's my money, it's our money that we earn together, but Thai men generally never carry money when the wife's around as it's the woman's 'role' to handle the cash... which suits me just fine

Not in my husband's family! All the men carry their own money and always pay for everything. But then, they are an odd bunch

[isabelle17]

Great advice girlx!

I agree that you have to watch out for them...but I would like to point out that it is not only the guys on the beach you have to be careful of. I have a friend from europe who met a Thai man and he worked at the local hospital. You would think with that kind of profession he would be a good guy...but he wasn't. Of course, she did meet him in a bar. I have also met a lot of Thai guys (in a lot of different places) who may seem like good guys, however, they percieve falang girls in a certain way. A lot of what they see about falang girls is what they see in movies (and some pornos...might I add...) and that often is NOT a true portrayal of what most falang women are like. But unfortunatlely, I think many Thai men fall into that trap of thinking that falang women are "easy." And maybe compared to some Thai women, we are. But I know that I certainly would not be in a relationship with just any guy and that goes along for a lot of falang women as well. I wish Thai guys would open their mind more and not just think of foreign girls as "easy."

Ah yes. I remember my younger days in Thailand as well, when I was a little more naive. I remember going somewhere with this Thai guy who worked on the beach (along with two of my friends) and I later found out that he was married, quite a bit older than me, and he later got arrested for killing someone. I am so glad I trusted my instincts and did not pursue a relationship with him. He creeped me out. TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS! There is a reason why we have them!

Some other advice is: Watch your boyfriends actions, especially with his friends. (I think this doesn't just go along with Thai guys, but with all guys.)

I think that one reason a lot of these guys have the "flavor of the week" is partly because a lot of these foreign women go on vacation to Thailand for only 2 weeks, or maybe a little longer. A lot of them dont actually live in Thailand. And so if they meet a Thai guy on the beach, he probably assumes that she will only be there for a little while before she goes back to her home country. So I think when it comes to both sides-many of them dont assume that the relationship or "fling" will continue once the girl goes back to her home country.

And lastly...I can honestly say that my boyfriend of three years used to be a beach boy. And I know that his past is probably not as "pure" as some other thai guys pasts might be. All I can say is that if your beach boy boyfriend is not willing to quit working on the beach for you, then he is NOT worth it. At least thats my opinion. I know that I would not be with my boyfriend today if he was still working on the beach. Anyway, I think that the generalization of beach boys is correct...however....I think it is a bit unfair to generalize too much. A lot of Thai guys do not see foreign women the same way as they see Thai women. And this is because of cultural differences and what they see on tv, read about, hear about, etc.

A quick sidenote-in some ways I can understand where these "naive girls" are coming from in that if they do not know anything about thai culture, they wont realize what can go wrong. Also, it is sometimes VERY hard to tell if a Thai guy (or any guy for that matter) is lying. Some guys are very smooth talkers and sometimes even the most sensible women can fall victim to a cheater, alcoholic, etc.

[bina]

u could substitute the word thai for italian, israeli or whatever; the young travel the world girls arrive, and the local boys see a big sign over their heads saying: sex free...

ask my 18 yr old what he thinks of the american girls coming over for volunteering on kibbutz etc.... : he says, ans i quote: mom, they all dress like they are the mattress of the group..." and he is a virgin!!! and not a hard boy at all... but reputation and action (even if its bluff) project the message that is misread by the locals....

i think most of these girls also leave their brains at the airport when they see the sun and fun....

tel aviv beach is filled with the same stories.....

mothers, teach your daughters well...(and put some condoms/birth control in their suitcase as well)

bina

israel

[AlexLah]

OP,

You mean you girls can be cheated as well?

How about those comments from Western girls that most foreigners come to Thailand to find a Thai girl so easy?

Ooops some Farang girls come here to find easy love?

How about that?

Are you girls just look at nice and musculair body or what?

Many foreigners here looking for a nice person who they can talk with and have a good time.

Just open your mind!

Alex

[girlx]

er, sorry about the chip you seem to have on your shoulder, but i do have just as much sympathy for guys that are swindled as i do girls.

Edited March 19, 2008 by girlx

[ThaiWanderer68]

... but i do have just as much sympathy for guys that are swindled as i do girls.

Refreshing point of view, and would agree entirely.

There's an awful lot of western women in Thailand, as well as western guys who have left Thailand, who have chips on their shoulders, and seem to feel the need to keep "proving" western men and Thai women relationships in a bad light. They also like to think it is the majority in order to make themselves feel better.

That western guys latch on to the western-female/Thai guy equivalent relationship that has problems, just to retaliate (or perhaps even preempting) does no-one any favours either.

My view is always that the nice guy/girl that gets taken advantage of deserves compassion and sympathy. Not the "it's your own fault you should no better". After all in most cases, they're just nice trusting people getting taken advantage of.

It's a sad reflection on those people who use these situations/relationships to make themselves feel better.

Luckily these type of failures are not the majority. Though they are uncomfortably common.

[Blueprincess]

Hello to all:

Could I have some information about a place called Haad Yuan. Would it be a relatively safe place to be (maybe it is plagued by beach boys too )

Blueprincess

[Blueprincess]

Just thought that in view of the topic this might be of great interest. Maybe it should be published

It comes from articles published by a mental health professional.

Unfortunately, the saying is so true that "none so blind as those who do not wish to see".

"""Very few relationships start on terms other than sweetness and politeness. In the beginning, "the honeymoon" of the relationship, it's difficult to determine what type of individual you are dating. Both you and the date are guarded, trying to obtain information about the other as much as possible without seeming like a police detective.

A relationship with the wrong individual however can lead to years of heartache, emotional/social damage, and even physical damage. A damaging adult partner can damage us, damage our loved ones, and even damage the way we feel about love and romance in the future. They can turn what is supposed to be a loving, supporting, and understanding relationship into the "fatal attraction" often described in movies. There are a variety of "bad choices" that may be encountered each week - most of which are easily to identify and avoid. We all know to avoid people that appear insane or abusive and not select them as a dating partner. However, some individuals are better at hiding their personality and behavior abnormalities. In an effort to provide some warning about these very damaging individuals, this paper will outline a type of individual commonly found in the dating scene, a male or female labeled "The Loser".

"The Loser" is a type of partner that creates much social, emotional and psychological damage in a relationship. "The Loser" has permanent personality characteristics that create this damage. These are characteristics that they accept simply as the way they are and not a problem or psychological difficulty. In one sense, they have always lived with this personality and behavior, often something they probably learned from their relatives/family. Psychologists usually treat the victims of "The Loser", women or men who arrive at the office severely depressed with their self-confidence and self-esteem totally destroyed.

The following list is an attempt to outline the characteristics of "The Loser" and provide a manner in which women and men can identify potentially damaging relationships before they are themselves severely damaged emotionally or even physically. If your partner possesses even one of these features, there is risk in the relationship. More than three of these indicators and you are involved with "The Loser" in a very high risk relationship that will eventually create damage to you. When a high number of these features are present - it's not a probably or possibility. You will be hurt and damaged by "The Loser" if you stay in the relationship.

1. Rough Treatment "The Loser" will hurt you on purpose. If he or she hits you, twists your arm, pulls your hair, kicks you, shoves you, or breaks your personal property EVEN ONCE, drop them. Male losers often begin with behaviors that move you physically or hit the wall. Female losers often slap, kick and even punch their male partners when upset.

2. Quick Attachment and Expression "The Loser" has very shallow emotions and connections with others. One of the things that might attract you to "The Loser" is how quickly he or she says "I Love You" or wants to marry or commit to you. Typically, in less than a few weeks of dating you'll hear that you're the love of their life, they want to be with you forever, and they want to marry you. You'll receive gifts, a variety of promises, and be showered with their attention and nice gestures. This is the "honeymoon phase" - where they catch you and convince you that they are the best thing that ever happened to you. Remember the business saying "If it's too good to be true it probably is (too good to be true)!" You may be so overwhelmed by this display of instant attraction, instant commitment, and instant planning for the future that you'll miss the major point - it doesn't make sense!! Normal, healthy individuals require a long process to develop a relationship because there is so much at stake. Healthy individuals will wait for a lot of information before offering a commitment - not three weeks. It's true that we can become infatuated with others quickly - but not make such unrealistic promises and have the future planned after three dates. The rapid warm-up is always a sign of shallow emotions which later cause "The Loser" to detach from you as quickly as they committed. "The Loser" typically wants to move in with you or marry you in less than four weeks or very early in the relationship.

3. Frightening Temper "The Loser" has a scary temper. If your boyfriend or girlfriend blows up and does dangerous things, like driving too fast because they're mad, breaking/throwing things, getting into fights, or threatening others - that temper will soon be turned in your direction. In the beginning of the relationship, you will be exposed to "witnessed violence" - fights with others, threats toward others, angry outbursts at others, etc. You will also hear of violence in their life. You will see and witness this temper - throwing things, yelling, cursing, driving fast, hitting the walls, and kicking things. That quickly serves to intimidate you and fear their potential for violence, although "The Loser" quickly assures you that they are angry at others or situations, not at you. At first, you will be assured that they will never direct the hostility and violence at you - but they are clearly letting you know that they have that ability and capability - and that it might come your way. Later, you fear challenging or confronting them - fearing that same temper and violence will be turned in your direction.

4. Killing Your Self-Confidence "The Loser" repeatedly puts you down. They constantly correct your slight mistakes, making you feel "on guard", unintelligent, and leaving you with the feeling that you are always doing something wrong. They tell you that you're too fat, too unattractive, or don't talk correctly or look well. This gradual chipping away at your confidence and self-esteem allows them to later treat you badly - as though you deserved it. In public, you will be "walking on eggshells" - always fearing you are doing or saying something that will later create a temper outburst or verbal argument.

5. Cutting Off Your Support In order to control someone completely, you must cut off their supportive friends - sometimes even their family. "The Loser" feels your friends and family might influence you or offer negative opinions about their behavior. "The Loser" begins by telling you these friends treat you badly, take advantage of you, and don't understand the special nature of the love you share with them. In some cases, if they can't get rid of your best same-sex friend, "The Loser" will claim he or she made a pass at them. If you talk to your friends or family, "The Loser" will punish you by asking multiple questions or making nasty accusations. Eventually, rather than face the verbal punishment, interrogation, and abuse, you'll develop the feeling that it's better not to talk to family and friends. You will withdraw from friends and family, prompting them to become upset with you. "The Loser" then tells you they are treating you badly again and you'd be better to keep your distance from them. Once you are isolated and alone, without support, their control over you can increase.

6. The Mean and Sweet Cycle "The Loser" cycles from mean to sweet and back again. The cycle starts when they are intentionally hurtful and mean. You may be verbally abused, cursed, and threatened over something minor. Suddenly, the next day they become sweet, doing all those little things they did when you started dating. You hang on, hoping each mean-then-sweet cycle is the last one. The other purpose of the mean cycle is to allow "The Loser" to say very nasty things about you or those you care about, again chipping away at your self-esteem and self-confidence. "The Loser" often apologizes but the damage to your self-esteem is already done - exactly as planned.

7. It's Always Your Fault "The Loser" blames you for their anger as well as any other behavior that is incorrect. When they cheat on you, yell at you, treat you badly, damage your property, or embarrass you publicly - it's somehow your fault. If you are ten minutes late for a date, it's your fault that the male loser drives 80 miles per hour, runs people off the road, and pouts the rest of the evening. "The Loser" tells you their anger and misbehavior would not have happened if you had not made some simple mistake, had loved them more, or had not questioned their behavior. "The Loser" never, repeat "never", takes personal responsibility for their behavior - it's always the fault of someone else. If they drive like a maniac and try to pull an innocent driver off the highway to assault them - it's actually the fault of the other driver (not his) as they didn't use a turn signal when they changed lanes. They give you the impression that you had it (anger, yelling, assault) coming and deserved the anger, violence, pouting, or physical display of aggression.

8. Breakup Panic "The Loser" panics at the idea of breaking up - unless it's totally their idea - then you're dropped like a hot rock. Abusive boyfriends often break down and cry, they plead, they promise to change, and they offer marriage/trips/gifts when you threaten ending the relationship. Both male and female losers may threaten suicide, threaten to return to old sweethearts (who feel lucky they're gone!), or threaten to quit their job and leave the area - as though you will be responsible for those decisions. "The Loser" offers a multitude of "deals" and halfway measures, like "Let's just date one more month!"

They shower you with phone calls, often every five minutes, hoping that you will make an agreement or see them just to stop the telephone harassment. Some call your relatives, your friends, their friends, and anyone else they can think of - telling those people to call you and tell you how much they love you. Creative losers often create so much social pressure that the victim agrees to go back to the bad relationship rather than continue under the social pressure. Imagine trying to end a relationship and receiving tearful calls from all his or her relatives (they secretly hope you'll keep them so they don't have to), seeing a plea for your return in the newspaper or even on a local billboard, receiving flowers at work each day, or having them arrive at your place of work and offer you a wedding ring (male loser technique) or inform you that they might be pregnant (female loser technique) in front of your coworkers! Their reaction is emotionally intense, a behavior they use to keep you an emotional prisoner. If you go back to them, you actually fear a worse reaction if you threaten to leave again (making you a prisoner) and they later frequently recall the incident to you as further evidence of what a bad person you are. Remember, if your prize dog jumps the fence and escapes, if you get him back you build a higher fence. Once back in the grasp of "The Loser" - escape will be three times as difficult the next time.

9. No Outside Interests "The Loser" will encourage you to drop your hobbies, interests, and involvement with others. If you have an individual activity, they demand that they accompany you, making you feel miserable during the entire activity. The idea behind this is to prevent you from having fun or interests other than those which they totally control.

10. Paranoid Control "The Loser" will check up on you and keep track of where you are and who you are with. If you speak to a member of the opposite sex, you receive twenty questions about how you know them. If you don't answer their phone call, you are ask where you were, what were you doing, who you were talking to, etc. They will notice the type of mud on your car, question why you shop certain places, and question why you called a friend, why the friend called you, and so forth. Some losers follow you to the grocery, then later ask if you've been there in an attempt to catch you in a lie. In severe cases, they go through your mail, look through your purse/wallet, hit your redial on the phone when they arrive, or search through your garbage for evidence. High-tech losers may encourage you to make "private" calls to friends from their residence, calls that are being secretly taped for later reference. They may begin to tell you what to wear, what to listen to in music, and how to behave in public. Eventually, they tell you that you can not talk to certain friends or acquaintances, go certain places, or talk about certain issues in public. If no date is present on Friday night - "The Loser" will inform you that they will call you that night - sometime. That effectively keeps you home, awaiting the call, fearing the verbal abuse and questions you might receive if you weren't home for the call. This technique allows "The Loser" to do what they want socially, at the same time controlling your behavior from a distance or a local bar.

11. Public Embarrassment In an effort to keep you under control while in public, "The Loser" will lash out at you, call you names, or say cruel or embarrassing things about you in private or in front of people. When in public, you quickly learn that any opinion you express may cause them to verbally attack you, either at the time or later. If you stay with "The Loser" too long, you'll soon find yourself politely smiling, saying nothing, and holding on to their arm when in public. You'll also find yourself walking with your head down, fearful of seeing a friend who might speak to you and create an angry reaction in "The Loser".

12. It's Never Enough "The Loser" convinces you that you are never quite good enough. You don't say "I love you" enough, you don't stand close enough, you don't do enough for them after all their sacrifices, and your behavior always falls short of what is expected. This is another method of destroying your self-esteem and confidence. After months of this technique, they begin telling you how lucky you are to have them - somebody who tolerates someone so inadequate and worthless as you.

13. Entitlement "The Loser" has a tremendous sense of entitlement, the attitude that they have a perfectly logical right to do whatever they desire. If cut off in traffic, "The Loser" feels they have the right to run the other driver off the road, assault them, and endanger the lives of other drivers with their temper tantrum. Keep in mind, this same sense of entitlement will be used against you. If you disobey their desires or demands, or violate one of their rules, they feel they are entitled to punish you in any manner they see fit.

14. Your Friends and Family Dislike Him As the relationship continues, your friends and family will see what "The Loser" is doing to you. They will notice a change in your personality or your withdrawal. They will protest. "The Loser" will tell you they are jealous of the "special love" you have and then use their protest and opinion as further evidence that they are against you - not him. The mention of your family members or friends will spark an angry response from them - eventually placing you in the situation where you stop talking about those you care about, even your own family members. "The Loser" will be jealous and threatened by anyone you are close to - even your children. In some cases, your parents or brothers/sisters will not be allowed to visit your home.

15. Bad Stories People often let you know about their personality by the stories they tell about themselves. It's the old story about giving a person enough rope and they'll hang themselves. The stories a person tells informs us of how they see themselves, what they think is interesting, and what they think will impress you. A humorous individual will tell funny stories on himself. "The Loser" tells stories of violence, aggression, being insensitive to others, rejecting others, etc. They may tell you about past relationships and in every case, they assure you that they were treated horribly despite how wonderful they were to that person. They brag about their temper and outbursts because they don't see anything wrong with violence and actually take pride in the "I don't take nothing from nobody" attitude. People define themselves with their stories, much like a culture is described by it's folklore and legends. Listen to these stories - they tell you how you will eventually be treated and what's coming your way.

16. The Waitress Test It's been said that when dating, the way an individual treats a waitress or other neutral person of the opposite sex is the way they will treat you in six months. During the "honeymoon phase" of a relationship, you will be treated like a king or queen. However, during that time "The Loser" has not forgotten how he or she basically feels about the opposite sex. Waitresses, clerks, or other neutral individuals will be treated badly. If they are cheap - you'll never receive anything once the honeymoon is over. If they whine, complain, criticize, and torment - that's how they'll treat you in six months. A mentally healthy person is consistent, they treat almost all people the same way all the time. If you find yourself dating a man who treats you like a queen and other females like dirt - hit the road.

17. The Reputation As mentioned, mentally healthy individuals are consistent in their personality and their behavior. "The Loser" may have two distinct reputations - a group of individuals who will give you glowing reports and a group that will warn you that they are serious trouble. If you ask ten people about a new restaurant - five say it's wonderful and five say it's a hog pit - you clearly understand that there's some risk involved in eating there. "The Loser" may actually brag about their reputation as a "butt kicker", "womanizer", "hot temper" or "being crazy". They may tell you stories where other's have called them crazy or suggested that they receive professional help. Pay attention to the reputation. Reputation is the public perception of an individual's behavior. If the reputation has two sides, good and bad, your risk is high. You will be dealing with the bad side once the honeymoon is over in the relationship. With severe behavior problems, "The Loser" will be found to have almost no friends, just acquaintances. Emotionally healthy and moral individuals will not tolerate friendships with losers that treat others so badly. If you find yourself disliking the friends of "The Loser", it's because they operate the same way he or she does and you can see it in them.

18. Walking on Eggshells As a relationship with "The Loser" continues, you will gradually be exposed to verbal intimidation, temper tantrums, lengthy interrogations about trivial matters, violence/threats directed at others but witnessed by you, paranoid preoccupation with your activities, and a variety of put-downs on your character. You will quickly find yourself "walking on eggshells" in their presence - fearful to bring up topics, fearful to mention that you spoke to or saw a friend, and fearful to question or criticize the behavior of "The Loser". Instead of experiencing the warmth and comfort of love, you will be constantly on edge, tense when talking to others (they might say something that you'll have to explain later), and fearful that you'll see someone you'll have to greet in public. Dates and times together will be more comfortable and less threatening when totally alone - exactly what "The Loser" wants - no interference with their control or dominance.

19. Discounted Feelings/Opinions "The Loser" is so self-involved and self-worshiping that the feelings and opinions of others are considered worthless. As the relationship continues and you begin to question what you are feeling or seeing in their behavior, you will be told that your feelings and opinions don't make sense, they're silly, and that you are emotionally disturbed to even think of such things. "The Loser" has no interest in your opinion or your feelings - but they will be disturbed and upset that you dare question their behavior. "The Loser" is extremely hostile toward criticism and often reacts with anger or rage when their behavior is questioned.

20. They Make You "Crazy" "The Loser" operates in such a damaging way that you find yourself doing "crazy" things in self-defense. If "The Loser" is scheduled to arrive at 8:00 pm - you call Time & Temperature to cover the redial, check your garbage for anything that might get you in trouble, and call your family and friends to tell them not to call you that night. You warn family/friends not to bring up certain topics, avoid locations in the community where you might see co-workers or friends, and not speak to others for fear of the 20 questions. You become paranoid as well - being careful what you wear and say. Nonviolent males find themselves in physical fights with female losers. Nonviolent females find themselves yelling and screaming when they can no longer take the verbal abuse or intimidation. In emotional and physical self-defense, we behave differently and oddly. While we think we are "going crazy" - it's important to remember that there is no such thing as "normal behavior" in a combat situation. Rest assured that your behavior will return to normal if you detach from "The Loser" before permanent psychological damage is done.

Dangerous Versions of "The Loser"

There are more severe if not dangerous versions of "The Loser" that have been identified over the years. If you are involved in a relationship with one of these versions, you may require professional and legal assistance to save yourself.

Physical Abuser Physical abusers begin the relationship with physical moving - shoving, pushing, forcing, etc. That quickly moves into verbal threats with physical gestures - the finger in the face, clinched fist in the face, and voiced physical threats such as "You make me want to break your face!" Eventually, these combine to form actual physical abuse - hitting, slapping, and kicking. "The Loser" is always sorry the next day and begins the mean-then-sweet cycle all over again. Getting away from physical abusers often requires the assistance of family, law enforcement agencies, or local abuse agencies. Female losers often physically attack their partner, break car windows, or behave with such violence that the male partner is forced to physically protect himself from the assault. If the female loser is bruised in the process of self-protection, as when physically restraining her from hitting, those bruises are then "displayed" to others as evidence of what a bad person the partner is and how abusive they have been in the relationship.

Psychotic Losers There are losers that are severely ill in a psychiatric sense - the movie description of the "Fatal Attraction". Some may tell you wild stories and try to convince you that they are connected to The Mob or a government agency (CIA, FBI, etc.). They may fake terminal illness, pregnancy, or disease. They intimidate and frighten you with comments such as "I can have anyone killed..." or "No one leaves a relationship with me...". If you try to end the relationship, they react violently and give you the impression that you, your friends, or your family are in serious danger. People often then remain in the abusive and controlling relationship due to fear of harm to their family or their reputation. While such fears are unrealistic as "The Loser" is only interested in controlling you, those fears feel very real when combined with the other characteristics of "The Loser".

Psychotic or psychiatrically ill losers may also stalk, follow, or harass you. They may threaten physical violence, show weapons, or threaten to kill you or themselves if you leave them. If you try to date others, they may follow you or threaten your new date. Your new date may be subjected to phone harassment, vandalism, threats, and even physical assaults. If you are recently divorced, separated, or recently ended another relationship, "The Loser" may be intimidating toward your ex-partner, fearing you might return if the other partner is not "scared off". Just remember - everything "The Loser" has ever done to anyone will be coming your way. "The Loser" may send you pictures of you, your children, or your family - pictures they have taken secretly - hinting that they can "reach out and touch" those you love. You may need help and legal action to separate from these individuals.

[LaoPo]

having spent much time on the larger islands in thailand and observed the ways of the thai beach boys from a cultural and habitual perspective, i feel it might be helpful to put out some advice for those new girls to thailand who find themselves interested in a thai beach boy, as i am so tired and depressed at seeing these young, beautiful, naive girls come to thailand with no knowledge of the culture or situation and getting beat, cheated on, lied to, left pregnant or sick with STDs, and publicly humiliated by one of these guys, and sent home crying their eyes out, their self esteem ruined.

here's the deal, and you might think i am being overly harsh but i could refer you to plenty of girls who learned the hard way:

- it's all about sex, not love. thai guys have to work very hard and even pay money to a thai girl's family before she will let him in. in contrast, farang girls on holiday will jump right into bed with the boys, and it's free! they have many girls to choose from, you are not important to them. every single week there arrives a new load of nubile, easy tourist girls. i have seen so many times the boys take their "girlfriend" of the week to the boat to leave, and they wait there for the next boat to pull in and pick up whatever stupid girl is on it. face it, these guys get these jobs many time because thai girls do not want them. they work around farang girls because they know it is easy and free to get them in bed. every single one of these girls thinks they are special, and that their new man is "different" and they soon find out they are wrong.

- they lie. they will say absolutely ANYTHING to get you to sleep with them. it is a game. there is a lot of backslapping with their friends when they succeed in picking you up. they will lie about their age, marital status, how much money they make, everything in their past. the goal is simply to win. this is the same in every culture but in a tourist area it becomes a lot more hard core.

-they are not safe. you need to wear condoms, and if you don't, god help you. these guys sleep with an insane number of girls, and some with boys as well. even if you have been together for a couple weeks, that doesn't mean it is safe to stop wearing condoms. if yu want to do that, go get both of you tested first.

-some of these guys are serious criminals. you might think it is glamorous to date a drug dealer, but look up the drug laws in thailand. it isn't fun to watch your boyfriend out of his head every night either. a lot of the boys i know have actually raped and/or murdered someone in the past! they definitely aren't going to tell you this themself. they also can be very violent, and no one is going to tell you that they beat the crap out of the last little english girl who was here because everyone around them is afraid of repercussions. a good rule to keep in mind is that if there are any long term farang girls around, and they seem wary of discussing your man, it is because they have been threatened. if they drop you any hints, take them seriously- they have seen these guys in action. the stupidest thing you can do is run right back to the guy saying "so and so said"- in the long run you will have sabatoged the only support network available to you.

- if they get you pregnant and want to marry you in a short amount of time, they probably want a visa to your country. most of the girls i know who got pregnant were abandoned by their boyfriend for the next sweet young thing. as for marriage, it doesn't stop most of them from cheating. do some reading on thai culture, visit their family, look at their friends and position in society, and ask yourself "do i really know and trust this guy to build a life with?" before you get ahead of yourself. some of these guys are very poor and see you as their meal ticket. don't trust an offer of free land either. nothing is free.

beach boys have a bad reputation, and it is well deserved. don't assume that all thai men are the same (there are lots of nice thai guys around, but it seems like once they become too involved with the tourist industry they get jaded and hard), and there are even one or two of the beach boys that turn out to be ok in the long run. but there are far, far more broken heart stories than good ones in this element of society. generally speaking, if you meet a young, good looking guy in a tourist area, who speaks decent english, has a tattoo or piercing or farang style clothes, who says he is a dj, who twirls fire, or who works at a bar, they are most likely professionals with a long history. the worst ones i have met are on koh chang, in bangkok, and on koh phangan. make sure you know what you are in for. it's cool to come and have fun for a week or so on your holiday, but it is when you start taking it more seriously that you will have problems. you have to be willing to work through a lot of crap over a long period of time before there is a possibility of a successful relationship. if you don't plan on staying in thailand, then forget about it. watch out for number one, and good luck.

Good post to warn the newbies Girlx, but................

1. 99% of the newbie tourist girls don't read Thaivisa

2. most of the newbie tourist girls aren't that blue as you might think; the majority of the newbie girls are either from Ozzie/NZ or -majority- from Europe and partly from the US.

3. And, in Europe we have millions of those 'bad' beach boys, in Italy, Greece, Turkey, Spain, Italy, France, Tunisia, Marocco, you name it and I'm sure there are the same in Oz/NZ, welcoming the beautiful backpack girls from US and EU.

Those newbie 'innocent' girls have a LOT of experience, most of them, going on holiday, and just LOVE to go with the exotic romantic boys and...those girls KNOW it's about sex and NOT love. However, this time it's in Thailand.

4. Your warning is well meant and good, but maybe, just maybe you underestimate the western girl in general, from, let's say 14, 15 years old and up. I can't judge about Oz/NZ other than that Ive seen hundreds of absolute and completely drunk Oz girls in Bali bars and discotheques (yes....also in the one bombed.... ), but come and have a look in the bars and discotheques in Europe. You will be shocked; utterly shocked.

The 'innocent' girl you're talking about, and -again girlx- it's well meant, is hard to find.

Western boys and girls, traveling on holiday aren't the same sweet girls and boys as back home, sitting at the breakfast table with Mom and Dad....they change into sex animals, sorry to say, but it's the truth; and you know what ? they LOVE it !

And that's exactly what the Thai Beach Boys know and take advantage of, leaving lots of girls crying under a palmtree.

It's a (hard) lesson of life, but if you have saved just one girl's life, your thread is positive !

LaoPo

[girlx]

You might be right, a lot of these girls might know what's up, but the ones I seem to see around me are not having casual holiday romances. They are planning their future life with these "losers" (great post Blue Princess, and it is shocking how many of those behaviors I see!). I think the difference with Thai guys is they are not as obvious as western players are. Thais wear brilliant masks, and are rarely straighforward. They can be very sweet and seemingly sincere. Western players can usually be spotted pretty easily.

I am curious, do "losers" (as defined by the post above) ever change you think? Is it just that they need to meet the right person who can handle them, or is anyone who hooks up with them doomed to the same treatment?

Edited March 26, 2008 by girlx

[donna]

here in bali the beach boys are rampant. actually its hard to categorise them all as beach boys as some of them are apparently just 'regular' blokes out on the pull. one woman i know (just an acquaintance, lets call her Jen) is 43, same age as me. she has a 25 year old BOYfriend, lets call him Wayan. wayan also has a young balinese girlfriend the same age as him. she says that 'he loves me but he is in love with his girlfriend' and she still stays with him. he does not live with her, runs home to the balinese girl and doesnt care about jen at all. she was very ill recently with a bad flu i think, but he didnt even ask her how she was feeling.

i am occasionally approached by these boys and to be honest, i dont want anything to do with them. they look dirty and they are so obviously only after money. some of them may be cute, but really. what would a 43 year old woman do with a 25 year old boy?

to me its so blatantly obvious that its a financial arrangement and i wonder if i am the only one who sees that?

having said all that, a friend of mine, australian, is 37. her indonesian husband is 50. they have been together for 18 years and have a very successful relationship. sure, they have their ups and downs but they are a great team and have built a successful business together. they started with absolutely nothing at all and now have a great villa, wonderful business and two lovely kids. the husband sold me magic mushrooms back in 1983 and was a real player. he stopped playing up when they met and has been a good husband to her ever since.

so, some people do have it in them to be good people in the end. i dont think he was an asshol_e after money...just a player. he had his fair share of women and ive seen the photos to prove it. im glad my friend is married to him and im glad he is my friend.

give me a clean cut bloke with a brain any day.

[girlx]

well i realized today that i am one of the stupid girls too, not that it is a shocker, but it really is so hard to tell. love is blind and thai guys are excellent liars. oh well. lesson learned. i hope people read the original post and REALLY take it seriously because by the time you have hooked up it is already too late.

[tijnebijn]

well i realized today that i am one of the stupid girls too, not that it is a shocker, but it really is so hard to tell. love is blind and Thai guys are excellent liars. oh well. lesson learned. i hope people read the original post and REALLY take it seriously because by the time you have hooked up it is already too late.

Isn't that a bit of a late conclusion ?

I think it happens , cause a lot of people are very naive ,

doesn't matter eventually it helps one grow up and get perspective .

I don't particularly believe in love .Its more about respect , acceptation ,

patience , balancing which will create peace and happiness .

You can say that love at first sight might be the recognition of each others counterpart

of ones soul . Still not actually means one can build a relationship when one of either side

is not willing to be open in one aspect .

We humans are just very emotional stubborn species so to say .

Balancing oneself I would say is the best remedy to make a relation work with another ,

if not ready for that its will be doomed , which happens to most of us .

Anyway , it's a nice thread to read. many interesting on the women's forum really .

[pampal]

Alot of people, male and female, come to Thailand wanting to experience exotic things, this includes sex. Nothing can stop them from having this dream and acting it out, but sometimes the truth is bitter and sometimes it's sweet.

[girlx]

You can say that love at first sight might be the recognition of each others counterpart

of ones soul . Still not actually means one can build a relationship when one of either side

is not willing to be open in one aspect .

i agree with this. things can't be one-sided.

Alot of people, male and female, come to Thailand wanting to experience exotic things, this includes sex.

i really believe that foreign men come here mostly for sex and foreign women for love.

[donna]

opp topic posts have been deleted. please keep it on topic folks.

[HomeisThai]

Good post Girlx.

I too fell for a beach boy, hel_l i knew what he was like, ive been with players and the first time we spoke i told him i knew what he was like. But, i hadnt had sex for 3 years and wanted my first one night stand. The clever boy turned on the charm and told me he couldnt sleep with me unless i stayed longer as he liked me....2 weeks in and I told him to do one as I caught him taking another girl upstairs.

He put the sob story on and told me it was because i had a cold heart(i didnt want to gte hurt), so i let him in and opened my heart and he trampled it...although to be fair I expected it from the start so I should have stayed strong and told him to <deleted> off.

It was all just a fantasy, i often thought would i fancy him in England if he came here, ummm prolly not, i mean yes look wise, he was dam_n HOT, but no in most other ways.

Next time Im in Thailand I will not be having relations with a beach boy, although i am friends with some.

I saw alot in my time on Phangan, girls who went with one beach boy after the other(all the same group), made my stomach turn.

Im glad I experienced it(great sex and he is still the most beautiful man ive ever met)..but Im also glad he was the only one I went with and I can now realise just what it was.

[LaoPo]

well, that's what I meant in my post #21...

Western girls aren't that blue...

LaoPo