Impending World Wide Economic Depression,

[AlexLah]

Dear all,

The subprime mortgage crisis is just the beginning.

Remember the IT bubble?

Greenspan tried to solve it with the next bubble, sub prime .

Next one will be the derivatives, wait untill that one explodes.

Looking at history, all great empires have collapsed, same will happen with the US, it is just a matter of time.

Have a look here: http://www.nationalexpositor.com/News/1064.html

[camerata]

Sure, a lot of working Thais will loose their houses, cars and jobs, but LOS has been self sufficient until this last decade and they can and will simply go with the flow and [more easily than us] return to their old values of family unity and living off the land.

This is basically what Pasuk and Baker say in Thailand's Boom and Bust. During the 1997 crisis, 2 million Thais lost their jobs and most of them simply went back to their upcountry family to help out with the harvest and live on next to nothing. This is Thailand's "safety valve." Although some politicians put the blame on the IMF, and the average Thai joked about the IMF, I never experienced any hostility because of it.

Also, the Buddhist values will keep them in check.

I'm not so sure about this. Consumerism and greed is much more prevalent these days.

[bendix]

Dear all,

The subprime mortgage crisis is just the beginning.

Remember the IT bubble?

Greenspan tried to solve it with the next bubble, sub prime .

Next one will be the derivatives, wait untill that one explodes.

Looking at history, all great empires have collapsed, same will happen with the US, it is just a matter of time.

Have a look here: http://www.nationalexpositor.com/News/1064.html

What happened to you AlexLah? You used to be one of the most sensible posters on Thaivisa. Now you just write a lot of tripe.

And let me give you a tip. Backing up nonsensical theories with carefully selected (and supportive) news stories by rent-a-doomsday-quote commentators, actually detracts for their intellectual validity, not the reverse.

[Prakanong]

I have to agree with GH. When the economy gets bad, the first thing to suffer is foreigners. In the states, the first thing you hear when the economy starts to tank is about illegal immigration. When the economy is expanding they are basically welcomed with open arms. When it gets bad, they are the cause of every problem from unemployment to disease.

Many Thai people have had a deep resentment of foreigners and their money. Neighbors may be nice, but becareful where you walk because the Land of Smiles isn't smiling as much anymore. Add to that the nationalism and you can get a very uneasy feeling.

Take a look at the Burmese and how they are treated--and they are easy to treat badly--no support from their home country and few reprecussions. Now, look at the immigration policy and how it's being enforced and getting stricter. You are welcome to come and spend a lot of money for a month and then go home--that's the attitude.

Money can buy a lot, but it can't buy acceptance.

there is a big flaw in your theory. we Farangs did not come illegally and empty handed wading through the Rio Grande or via the borderS from Burma, Laos or Cambodia. we brought and are still bringing loads of cash into the country (well... most of us) and our cash is during an economic depression even more welcome than before.

repeating the old but false mantra of disgruntled Farangs "You are welcome to come and spend a lot of money for a month and then go home" doesn't make it true! it's just boring to death. YAAWWWWNNNNN....

Please do not take this the wrong way but for a German you really have a British sense of humour

[GuestHouse]

Also, the Buddhist values will keep them in check.

Spits coffee over desk in a burst of laughter.

[Prakanong]

Also, the Buddhist values will keep them in check.

Spits coffee over desk in a burst of laughter.

Bloody hel_l I missed that one - I guffawed when I saw your post

The neighbours will think I am a loony laughing so much

[GuestHouse]

there is a big flaw in your theory. we Farangs did not come illegally and empty handed wading through the Rio Grande or via the borderS from Burma, Laos or Cambodia. we brought and are still bringing loads of cash into the country (well... most of us) and our cash is during an economic depression even more welcome than before.

And there are two big flaws in your own argument - Firstly the US is a nation of which 'Immigration' is a founding principle where as Thailand is a nation where nationalism is a primary political tool and where 'ownership' of the nation and the land is at the heart of Thai nationalist think - fear of foreigners taking the land is at the core of much Thai thinking with respect to foreigners in Thailand.

Secondly, the number of Thais who directly receive and income from foreigners is relatively small.

The vast majority of Thais do not receive an income from foreigners, they work hard for a living they make for themselves and many resent the arrival of cash rich foreigners.

As for worn out old mantras ... how about 'Everything is for sale in Thailand'.... YAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWNNNN indeed.

If you believe that resentment to wealthy foreigners is not present in Thai society, you are in denial. If you think resentment would not increase in a serious economic breakdown then your delusions are beyond cure .

[jaideeguy]

So GH, are you going to cut and run??

"The vast majority of Thais do not receive an income from foreigners, they work hard for a living they make for themselves and many resent the arrival of cash rich foreigners."

I have to disagree with you in that many Thais DO benefit from the 'trickle down effect' from tourism $'s, export $'s, and long term expat $'s and their envy of our $'s.....not resentment.

Maybe some do resent the 'hi-so rich' falangs.......I do too and hope that they are the first to leave. I think that I have established myself in my local mooban, thru my wife and my own local support of tradesmen, monks and local vendors.

FYI.....my house hasn't been locked for years.

Granted, it may be a different scenario in the cities....wouldn't want to be in BKK, or NY or Manila.

[Heng]

Secondly, the number of Thais who directly receive and income from foreigners is relatively small.

The vast majority of Thais do not receive an income from foreigners, they work hard for a living they make for themselves and many resent the arrival of cash rich foreigners.

One's results may vary, but IMO the vast majority not only do not receive an income from foreigners as you stated, but the vast majority also have virtually no contact with foreigners. There isn't much reason to resent folks you hardly know. Kinda of like how folks relate to the wealthy Arab stereotype... yes, we "know" that some are quite well off, but we also know that quite a few are living in shacks and refugee camps and throw rocks for a living.

[plachon]

Secondly, the number of Thais who directly receive and income from foreigners is relatively small.

The vast majority of Thais do not receive an income from foreigners, they work hard for a living they make for themselves and many resent the arrival of cash rich foreigners.

One's results may vary, but IMO the vast majority not only do not receive an income from foreigners as you stated, but the vast majority also have virtually no contact with foreigners. There isn't much reason to resent folks you hardly know. Kinda of like how folks relate to the wealthy Arab stereotype... yes, we "know" that some are quite well off, but we also know that quite a few are living in shacks and refugee camps and throw rocks for a living.

I'm not convinced about the "virtually no contact bit". I've lived in Isaan during my dozen or so years in Thailand, and can say with a relatively high degree of certainty that over ten years ago your assertion would have held up. But in the last decade, virtually every village now has it's 'luk koey farang' and conspicuous houses built by the farangs themselves, farang's wives or gf's of farangs. They stand out, as do most of the farangs themselves whether at weddings, funerals, parties or other social occasions, or just wandering down the street in their singlets and shorts, beer can in hand (a stereotype image I know, but one I have witnessed too many times to dismiss).

Even if some old crone has never said two words to a farang in her life, you can bet your bottom dollar she can recount to you in detail several occasions when she's seen them and the strange things they do, what their arm hair feels like and what they smell like. There's a good chance one of her grand-daughters or nieces has dated one at some point or she may even have a luk loey herself, in which case everyone in the village will know about it. So my conclusion from this long period of observation in countless villages all over Isaan is that the vast majority now have had contact with foreigners and for most it's becoming more and more regular, as the beau's chase their daughter's/grand-daughter's/nieces back to the moo-baan.

As for resentment, I would say that in most cases it was muffled by the prospects of getting lucky with a rich one (tuk jackpot) and only really turns to resentment when he turns out to be far poorer or more kee-nieow than the rich and stupid one down the road that everyone likes to compare against. However, most of the resentment simmers in the male side of the family I believe and is not overtly expressed until a certain amount of liquor has been consumed or a critical event occurs. An economic downturn and manipulation of that simmering resentment by self-serving politicians and economic elites, could be quite nasty for some I fear. One hopes it never comes to that, but it can't be ruled out.

[GuestHouse]

Well put.

[Heng]

Secondly, the number of Thais who directly receive and income from foreigners is relatively small.

The vast majority of Thais do not receive an income from foreigners, they work hard for a living they make for themselves and many resent the arrival of cash rich foreigners.

One's results may vary, but IMO the vast majority not only do not receive an income from foreigners as you stated, but the vast majority also have virtually no contact with foreigners. There isn't much reason to resent folks you hardly know. Kinda of like how folks relate to the wealthy Arab stereotype... yes, we "know" that some are quite well off, but we also know that quite a few are living in shacks and refugee camps and throw rocks for a living.

I'm not convinced about the "virtually no contact bit". I've lived in Isaan during my dozen or so years in Thailand, and can say with a relatively high degree of certainty that over ten years ago your assertion would have held up. But in the last decade, virtually every village now has it's 'luk koey farang' and conspicuous houses built by the farangs themselves, farang's wives or gf's of farangs. They stand out, as do most of the farangs themselves whether at weddings, funerals, parties or other social occasions, or just wandering down the street in their singlets and shorts, beer can in hand (a stereotype image I know, but one I have witnessed too many times to dismiss).

Even if some old crone has never said two words to a farang in her life, you can bet your bottom dollar she can recount to you in detail several occasions when she's seen them and the strange things they do, what their arm hair feels like and what they smell like. There's a good chance one of her grand-daughters or nieces has dated one at some point or she may even have a luk loey herself, in which case everyone in the village will know about it. So my conclusion from this long period of observation in countless villages all over Isaan is that the vast majority now have had contact with foreigners and for most it's becoming more and more regular, as the beau's chase their daughter's/grand-daughter's/nieces back to the moo-baan.

As for resentment, I would say that in most cases it was muffled by the prospects of getting lucky with a rich one (tuk jackpot) and only really turns to resentment when he turns out to be far poorer or more kee-nieow than the rich and stupid one down the road that everyone likes to compare against. However, most of the resentment simmers in the male side of the family I believe and is not overtly expressed until a certain amount of liquor has been consumed or a critical event occurs. An economic downturn and manipulation of that simmering resentment by self-serving politicians and economic elites, could be quite nasty for some I fear. One hopes it never comes to that, but it can't be ruled out.

As mentioned, one's results may vary, although while I don't have much Issan countryside type experience, mine is the Bangkok-Chonburi 'beltway' experience and even in Pattaya where there seems to be falangs everywhere, in social situations they are rather few and far between. Even at weddings where the guest lists usually avg. between 500 and a few thousand guests, rarely is there a foreigner (of any nationality, not just farangs... given that there may be Eastern Asians undercover/incognito in attendance) to be seen. For myself, farangs are people that lease shophouses and homes from me and in many cases are in debt to me at 1%, just like their Thai counterparts, hardly anyone I'd resent, dislike, and in no way would want to see leave.

[egg6447]

So, please elaborate GH....do you think they will be after our blood or what few $$$'s we still bring into the Kingdom?

Thais love to blame, but they still have their hand out and why would they kill the geese that are still laying golden eggs??

because they havent got two brain cell have they.

[egg6447]

Secondly, the number of Thais who directly receive and income from foreigners is relatively small.

The vast majority of Thais do not receive an income from foreigners, they work hard for a living they make for themselves and many resent the arrival of cash rich foreigners.

As for worn out old mantras ... how about 'Everything is for sale in Thailand'.... YAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWNNNN indeed.

If you believe that resentment to wealthy foreigners is not present in Thai society, you are in denial. If you think resentment would not increase in a serious economic breakdown then your delusions are beyond cure .

if i was thai id have a bigger axe to grind with the so called chinees, who control anything worth haveing, falangs , a pee in the ocean. nationilizism, it would seem to me that government brainwashing would be the lable to use there, as there would have to be a understanding of social self . there is not. the general attitude from hiso down is self and who can i screw today, dont bore me with the people you work with gh, i accept there out there . 90% of thais dont give a shit about themselves let alone anyone else. and gh, how id love to go head to head in a deep and meaningfull debate ref thai and finnance

[Pakboong]

"As far as the 1929 US crash and subsequent depression goes, it happened because The Fed failed to act, i.e., the government didn't act when it needed to."

"Instead, they should let the market rule and let businesses succeed or fail on their own merits."

Which is it then?

Should the govt including the Fed act or should they let the market sort it out

BTW: there is no such thing as the free market - all markets are regulated it just depends on the extent and neo-liberal rhetoric often become laughable hypocritical in time like this when asking for bail outs.

The Fed is not a government agency. The chairmen is appointed by the President from a list of names provided by the bankers themselves. The Fed is a bank with a profit motive.

NOT a theory.

http://www.rense.com/general76/jfkvs.htm

http://www.rense.com/politics6/fedres.htm

http://rense.com/general81/freedom.htm

http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/5331

[Pakboong]

I am adding a link to a great piece of research on the Federal Reserve. A must read for anyone who wants to understand the management of money in the United States.

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/reserve.htm

[Naam]

Please do not take this the wrong way but for a German you really have a British sense of humour

but rather black british humour, isn't it?

[Naam]

If you believe that resentment to wealthy foreigners is not present in Thai society, you are in denial. If you think resentment would not increase in a serious economic breakdown then your delusions are beyond cure .

give me a break! according to your logic foreigners who bring money into the country are expelled when the economy breaks down and all that because there is resentment in thai society? will "resentment in thai society" influence politics in Thailand? will our driver, gardener and housemaid demonstrate in Bangkok and demand that my wife and me are deported so that they have a reason to go back working up country in the rice fields not 5 but 7 days a week for a fraction of the money and fringe benefits they are enjoying now?

[GuestHouse]

give me a break! according to your logic foreigners who bring money into the country are expelled when the economy breaks down and all that because there is resentment in thai society?

Like when did I say foreigners would be expelled?

I said that an economic turndown would give rise to the already existent resentment. And I also said look at the history of other nations in this respect.

Interestingly, my comment on the old mantra 'Everything is for sale in Thailand' goes un commented on.

My 'logic' (shall we say understanding) is that the Thais are a proud people, defensive of their nation, that the culture is nationalistic, that resentment exists towards foreigners - specifically Farangs - and importantly that not everything in Thailand is for sale.

You may have the good grace of your driver and your gardener - but you are paying them. Do not make the mistake of extrapolating there acceptance of you to the whole of Thai society (and I'm taking their loyalty and liking of you for granted - they may have private views not expressed here).

Treatment of 'outsiders' by nations during economic crisis -and whipped up by nationalism - surely you don't need that lesson again.

[Spee]

"As far as the 1929 US crash and subsequent depression goes, it happened because The Fed failed to act, i.e., the government didn't act when it needed to."

"Instead, they should let the market rule and let businesses succeed or fail on their own merits."

Which is it then?

Should the govt including the Fed act or should they let the market sort it out

The 1930's depression originating in the 20's economic downturn and brought to the forefront by the market crash in 1929 was caused by the Fed restricting the flow of money, when it should have expanded it. Rather that try to write an interpretation, why don't you listen to the man whom all worldwide economic experts agree has written and discussed the most accurate analysis of exactly what happened and why? That man is Milton Friedman and you can watch his analysis here:

http://www.ideachannel.tv/includes/video_high.php?id=3

In the current subprime debacle, the roots go back to the 1970's with a new Federal law called the Community Reinvestment Act, which was made worse by revised Federal legislation in 1995 and again in 2005. This legislation essentially requires lending firms to issue credit to people who would otherwise not qualify for it. Here is what I would feel is a pretty accurate assessment:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02052008/posto...3911.htm?page=0

In the case of the subprime debacle, the Fed is stepping up and inserting money into the system, which is helping at least in the short term to stablize the situation. Unfortunately, they are doing it by on the backs of the US taxpayer. To summarize in a few simple points:

- The federal governemnt, aka the Congress, passed laws which forced lenders to lend to people who under free market principles would not qualify for credit.

- Many commercial, e.g., Countrywide, and quasi-government (Ginnie Mae, Fannie Mae) lending institutions have lent out trillions of dollars under the auspices of this legislation.

- Now a large portion of the loans are in default, companies are folding, and the Fed is having to stablize the situation by creating currency in the form of T-bills of which the interest payments will be paid for by tax revenue.

- In other words, the US taxpayer is absorbing the punishment from too much federal government intervention. (And I doubt that we've seen the worst of it yet.)

BTW: there is no such thing as the free market - all markets are regulated it just depends on the extent and neo-liberal rhetoric often become laughable hypocritical in time like this when asking for bail outs.

This is the case precisely because there is too much government intervention. The most recent example I can think of is the "North American Free Trade Agreement" or NAFTA for short. If there is going to be free trade between countries then why do governments need to be involved? Any agreement should be a one-line, i.e., "any business in Mexico is free to trade with any business in the US." Instead NAFTA became 900 pages of government rules and regulations. Hardly free trade at all.

[Spee]

When I decided to leave the UK for a new life in Thailand, I came well prepared for financial eventualities that will inadvertently happen.

I planned my income on the baht being 40 baht = £1 and anymore is a bonus, plus brought over enough savings to last a few years until the exchange rates improve again, if they should drop low.

Also have another financial plan to be paid in the next 10 years for when inflation swallows up the income I have now.

For those who don't properly plan their long term residence in Thailand and come over thinking that present day costs wont increase and exchange rates will remain the same as the day they arrive in Thailand, should think again before committing over here and save themselves a lot of stress and bother.

I think these are some extremely valid points. I think living and/or retiring in Thailand as an expatriate is a luxury and a privilege, not a right or a necessity.

Compare it with investing in the stock market versus investing in a fixed income like a T-bill. The market has historically outperformed T-bills over time, but can also have fairly significant swings over the short term. If you can't handle the swings, then you shouldn't be in the market, and should have your money in T-bills. The T-bills may not even return a margin that will stay ahead of inflation, but they will return a guaranteed margin.

I think it is fair to use this as an analogy to living/retiring in Thailand as an expatriate, versus living/retiring in your home country. Living in LoS, you have the swings of the currency fluctuation. They may be greatly in your favor at times (e.g., 1 dollar = 50 baht) or it may be like it is now (e.g., 1 dollar = 31 baht). Compare that with living in your home country (i.e., 1 dollar = 1 dollar) and all you have to worry about is staying ahead of inflation to maintain your standard of living.

As far as I am concerned, people should be able to do what they want to do, in accordance with Thai law and the law of their home country. But don't come-a whingin' when the currency fluctuations head south enough to impact your lifestyle. If you are planning on retiring to Thailand on what would be viewed by many as a very modest income where your standard of living may be drastically impacted with a downward currency fluctuation, then perhaps this is a luxury or privilege that you cannot afford.

[Naam]

give me a break! according to your logic foreigners who bring money into the country are expelled when the economy breaks down and all that because there is resentment in thai society?

Like when did I say foreigners would be expelled?

1) I said that an economic turndown would give rise to the already existent resentment. And I also said look at the history of other nations in this respect.

Interestingly, my comment on the old mantra 'Everything is for sale in Thailand' goes un commented on.

My 'logic' (shall we say understanding) is that the Thais are a proud people, defensive of their nation, that the culture is nationalistic, that resentment exists towards foreigners - specifically Farangs - and importantly that not everything in Thailand is for sale.

2) You may have the good grace of your driver and your gardener - but you are paying them. Do not make the mistake of extrapolating there acceptance of you to the whole of Thai society (and I'm taking their loyalty and liking of you for granted - they may have private views not expressed here).

3) Treatment of 'outsiders' by nations during economic crisis -and whipped up by nationalism - surely you don't need that lesson again.

1) who cares? i don't! and if some Farang cares in what way is it relevant to him/her?

2) who cares? i don't! we are treating our three employees in ALL respects extremely well, they (until now) reciprocate by doing good jobs and have quite often expressed their gratitude. perhaps we are finally just lucky because our experience during the first 1½ years in Thailand was completely different.

3) an unfounded conclusion as far as Thailand is concerned. history does not necessarily repeat itself as it happened in my country 75 years ago.

[Naam]

My 'logic' (shall we say understanding) is that the Thais are a proud people, defensive of their nation, that the culture is nationalistic, that resentment exists towards foreigners - specifically Farangs - and importantly that not everything in Thailand is for sale.

my experience/facts vs. your logic/theory GuestHouse. my wife and me have visited Thailand for a quarter century at least twice (sometimes three times) every year. since end of 2004 we are living here. does our positive experience of 28 years not count? how come we have never encountered "resentment" from Thais? of course we have been cheated and/or exploited up to a certain degree. but not an iota more than it happened to us in any other country (even my home country) where we lived!

i agree that not everything in Thailand is for sale. but there is definitely a multiple for sale than in my home country and i enjoy each and every "sale"

personally i give a rat's @ss when i hear claims such as "Thais are racists, they resent and even hate us Farangs. that's why we pay more when visiting a temple or take a trip in a baht-bus."

i am not completely ruling out that the political scene might change in the future and that even Farangs who spend considerable sums of money in Thailand might face hard times and are not welcome anymore. but in this respect my logic says that the chances that we are expelled or suffer in any other ways are extremely low.

to sum it up. i agree resentment might exist against Farangs. however not against Farangs in general but against those who behave like the proverbial elephant in a porcellaine shop. those Farangs deserve any resentment and they get it not only from Thais. personally i despise them!

[GuestHouse]

^ I thought you didn't care?!

[plachon]

My 'logic' (shall we say understanding) is that the Thais are a proud people, defensive of their nation, that the culture is nationalistic, that resentment exists towards foreigners - specifically Farangs - and importantly that not everything in Thailand is for sale.

my experience/facts vs. your logic/theory GuestHouse. my wife and me have visited Thailand for a quarter century at least twice (sometimes three times) every year. since end of 2004 we are living here. does our positive experience of 28 years not count? how come we have never encountered "resentment" from Thais? of course we have been cheated and/or exploited up to a certain degree. but not an iota more than it happened to us in any other country (even my home country) where we lived!

i agree that not everything in Thailand is for sale. but there is definitely a multiple for sale than in my home country and i enjoy each and every "sale"

personally i give a rat's @ss when i hear claims such as "Thais are racists, they resent and even hate us Farangs. that's why we pay more when visiting a temple or take a trip in a baht-bus."

i am not completely ruling out that the political scene might change in the future and that even Farangs who spend considerable sums of money in Thailand might face hard times and are not welcome anymore. but in this respect my logic says that the chances that we are expelled or suffer in any other ways are extremely low.

to sum it up. i agree resentment might exist against Farangs. however not against Farangs in general but against those who behave like the proverbial elephant in a porcellaine shop. those Farangs deserve any resentment and they get it not only from Thais. personally i despise them!

I would suggest that someone in a position to employ a maid, driver and gardener is not exactly in an ideal position to get close enough to grassroots Thailand to register such resentment as GH and others are alluding to. Try throwing off the crutches that wealth and privilege allows for a while and see how one's perspective changes. I suspect not the easiest thing to do, but it might explain why there are different strokes for different folks.

[Heng]

I would suggest that someone in a position to employ a maid, driver and gardener is not exactly in an ideal position to get close enough to grassroots Thailand to register such resentment as GH and others are alluding to. Try throwing off the crutches that wealth and privilege allows for a while and see how one's perspective changes. I suspect not the easiest thing to do, but it might explain why there are different strokes for different folks.

Sounds like you have your own personal resentment issues there, Plachon. Naam may or may not be out of touch with his employees, but in general folks who employ other folks are pretty close to grassroots Thailand. They feed the roots of Thailand. You know what they eat, what they are paid, what motivates them, and yes, what they are feeling (as any good employer should). You get pretty good at it when you employ one person, that many times more so when you employ tens, hundreds, or thousands.

What's the first thing a team of day laborers will look for when you have someone take them to Carrefour or Lotus? Tom Yam gung flavored ramen. It's the only flavor that works as a main dish to be served with rice. It's cheap enough to still allow for Sangsom + lao kao from 7-11 (purchased later when they run out of whisky) in the budget.

[GuestHouse]

Well that might be so Heng, but who tells their boss what they really think - I certainly don't and I don't expect any of the people working for me to tell me their real thoughts either.

And its a shaky assumption to believe that the relationship between ourselves and those we employ is indicative of the relationship in the wider community.

It is this whole idea that loyalty and acceptance can be bought that I find odd... arrogant even.

[Heng]

Well that might be so Heng, but who tells their boss what they really think - I certainly don't and I don't expect any of the people working for me to tell me their real thoughts either.

And its a shaky assumption to believe that the relationship between ourselves and those we employ is indicative of the relationship in the wider community.

It is this whole idea that loyalty and acceptance can be bought that I find odd... arrogant even.

People can be read well beyond what they actually tell you (the same way you might read a family member or anyone you are familiar with because of constant interaction). In fact I will often completely ignore or at least temorarily block out what folks are saying and instead choose to read all of their other body language/work performance/etc. 'tells.'

It would be incorrect to extrapolate the relationship to the entire community, but it'd be just as incorrect not to consider it as part of the overall picture. I assume you are in possession of some kind of in depth/more accurate guage?

Not sure why you're telling me that loyalty and acceptance can't be bought, I certainly didn't suggest it could.

Edited March 23, 2008 by Heng

[Naam]

I would suggest that someone in a position to employ a maid, driver and gardener is not exactly in an ideal position to get close enough to grassroots Thailand to register such resentment as GH and others are alluding to. Try throwing off the crutches that wealth and privilege allows for a while and see how one's perspective changes. I suspect not the easiest thing to do, but it might explain why there are different strokes for different folks.

Plachon, if our maid, the gardener and the driver do not belong to thai grassroots then please enlighten me who does belong to it? but that's besides the point which i was trying to make and the underlying topic of this thread which is "economic depression / How will expats in Thailand survive?" based on that i've read a lot of bla-bla and beating around the bush concerning thai resentment vs. foreigners but none of the learned lecturers were specific and could only offer unsubstantiated theories.

i had enough grassroot contacts to realize that any potential resentment from this corner does neither affect my life style nor our stay in Thailand. grassroots do NOT make and apply specific politics. for us foreigners only Bangkok and its politicians count. moreover, my wife and me have in nearly three decades never encountered any resentment from a "nationalistic and proud people" and i wish that every country we lived in and it's people had treated us with the utmost friendly and polite way thai people have treated us and still do

Edited March 23, 2008 by Naam

[BigSnake]

Gonna be rough, so rough, but hopefully most will survive.