Tiger Boxer

[Phil Conners]

After all the talk the Tiger Boxer is finally here. Yesterday I got a mail from Khun Panadda: "Sorry for late reply.We just delivered to dealer in Pattaya, you can see and test at "RACHANYANYONT" soi Sukhumvit 53, middle pattaya, tel. 081-8879072". Suk Soi 53 is actually Soi Neunplabwan and the dealer is on the north side of the road about 3 km from Sukhumvit, just opposite an Esso gas station.

I went there and was met with a very nice Thai gentleman who could speak passable English and who'd be happy let me take it for a spin. I don't know so much about bike riding so I won't bore you with a description other than it stable enough but a little odd but I think it's just me, needing to get used to a new bike before it feels comfortable.

A few things struck me though:

- The seat is not very comfortable, reminding me mostly of a CBR 150 I tried, quite hard on the family jewels if you get my drift

- The turn radius seems very large, at least compared to my Honda Airblade

- No tachometer - the cockpit seems a little empty for a bike like this.

The price is 72,000 baht. If I wanted the blue demo bike or the new red bike I could take it immediately, otherwise it needs to be ordered for a 10 day delivery time.

Some pictures (taken with my camera-phone, hence the low quality).

Edited July 5, 2008 by Phil Conners

[dave_boo]

Phil;

Thanks for the update....and not too shabby of a price. I'd be interested in your opinion of how it drove; regardless if you consider yourself an expert or not. Items like wether or not it would be a good inter-city ride due to having a more relaxed position than the CBR 150R, noise level, vibrations transmitted, etc.

Once again thanks!

[Phil Conners]

Dave, I think it drove ok, I just need to get used to new bikes before they feel comfortable for me. Even my Airblade felt strange the first couple of days. Vibrations? not enough to bother me. Noise? Well it's a bit of a thumber but it sounds good. Brakes, also fine. In fact other than the hard seat I found it an all round comfortable bike.

I forgot to mention the pricelist also lists a Tiger Boxer 200R for 68,000 and a 150R for 64,000...

Edited July 5, 2008 by Phil Conners

[dave_boo]

Dave, I think it drove ok, I just need to get used to new bikes before they feel comfortable for me. Even my Airblade felt strange the first couple of days. Vibrations? not enough to bother me. Noise? Well it's a bit of a thumber but it sounds good. Brakes, also fine. In fact other than the hard seat I found it an all round comfortable bike.

I forgot to mention the pricelist also lists a Tiger Boxer 200R for 68,000 and a 150R for 64,000...

Wow, as long as they have a yellow version, I'm probably going to get one. If I don't like it, brother in law is getting ready to finish his last year of school, I may give it to him as a graduation gift.

Thumper bikes are great sounding. The only reason I was asking about the vibrations is it being a single cylinder, especially that large (250cc), it would seem like at higher RPMs it would produce more than a smaller one. If vibrations aren't that noticable, and especially if it's not as bad at the same engine speed as when I'm winding out my CBR's throttle, it just sweetens the deal.

Assuming the build quality is there, it makes you wonder whether or not the Ninja 250 is going to stand a chance. Seems like Kawasaki is a real bit player, probably about the same number of dealerships as Tiger (I know that in the area where I live there IS a Tiger dealership but no Kawasaki), and they can't seem to capture the imagination of Thais like Honda can. Will the extreme savings that the Tiger Boxer offer over the Ninja 250 be able to offset the previous bad press/image given to Tiger brand motorcycles?

[LivinLOS]

Seems a solid looking thing for the price..

[Richard-BKK]

I agree, what will justify the almost 2 times higher price for a Kawasaki bike. I know people who still very happy biking around on a older then 3 year old Tiger motorcycle. For administrative, life expectancy of and vehicle, we can count about 5 years. Sure most motorcycles, will last longer, but personally I try to lose them before that date.

If we get this figures right you can ride two Tigers 250cc for much less cost then any of the Kawasaki's coming to the market. Ride a Tiger 250RS for 2 or 3 years sell it for anything somebody offers for it and buy a brand new one is cheaper then keep a Kawasaki KLX250 (D-Tracker) running for 5 years.

Kawasaki is aware of this danger, they had in the last few weeks several meetings about the price position of there upcoming bikes....

[HDRIDER]

Hi

My friend had a Tiger, it spend a lot of time in the workshop, i remember he said there was a lot of electric problems, he was very happy to get rid of it, and he almost gave it away, nobody would pay anything for that bike, that is reason enough for me not to buy one, don’t like it anyway.

[moo9]

After all the talk the Tiger Boxer is finally here. Yesterday I got a mail from Khun Panadda: "Sorry for late reply.We just delivered to dealer in Pattaya, you can see and test at "RACHANYANYONT" soi Sukhumvit 53, middle pattaya, tel. 081-8879072". Suk Soi 53 is actually Soi Neunplabwan and the dealer is on the north side of the road about 3 km from Sukhumvit, just opposite an Esso gas station.

I went there and was met with a very nice Thai gentleman who could speak passable English and who'd be happy let me take it for a spin. I don't know so much about bike riding so I won't bore you with a description other than it stable enough but a little odd but I think it's just me, needing to get used to a new bike before it feels comfortable.

A few things struck me though:

- The seat is not very comfortable, reminding me mostly of a CBR 150 I tried, quite hard on the family jewels if you get my drift

- The turn radius seems very large, at least compared to my Honda Airblade

- No tachometer - the cockpit seems a little empty for a bike like this.

The price is 72,000 baht. If I wanted the blue demo bike or the new red bike I could take it immediately, otherwise it needs to be ordered for a 10 day delivery time.

Some pictures (taken with my camera-phone, hence the low quality).

Hi how does the Tiger compares in size with the CBR150?

To me the CBR is a little bit too small, that is one of the reasons I sold it.

The Tiger seems to be priced ok, although at maybe 10,000 Bht more, one might find a brand name 400cc (however with unclear green book maybe).

I try to make it to the Tiger shop one day.

Rgds

Moo9

[LivinLOS]

By the time your at 70 - 80 in the 400 range you can get a clear book (or at least a working book) on a 400 in nice enough shape..

But then theres the new v older.. The dealer network and parts.. The usual hassles..

I dont think its a attractive bike, (look at the heat tarnish on that pipe from new !!) I would think the Nighthawk 250 (CBF ??) would be far preferable for 10k more.. But 250 is a pretty ok size for a lot of Thailand.. It looks like the cockpit is a bit more roomy for the bigger guys (wide bars)..

Whats the rated power ??

[PeaceBlondie]

Back to the Thai made bike, the Tiger. What is the reputation of the brand in Thailand? My Thai partner, who bought a new Tiger Joker 125, said it was the worst bike he ever bought, new or used. He otherwise only bought Japanese bikes.

[WilliamCave]

Does anyone have one or has anyone ridden one enough to have a solid opinion?

http://www.motorcycle.in.th/article.php?st...ai-Mystery-Bike

The police that live beside me have one,,do u want me to ask them were to get them?

I have police on both sides of me and also in front of me living in asafe area. one should know

[PeaceBlondie]

Sorry, but I thought of one problem with the Tiger Boxer 250 - no tachometer. A sport bike without a tach? My XT200 and my GN250 - neither of them true sports bikes - came with tachs. So, you would have no idea what the rpm is on a Tiger Boxer. No thanks. It makes me think Thais were copying a Honda 125 Sonic.

[dave_boo]

Sorry, but I thought of one problem with the Tiger Boxer 250 - no tachometer. A sport bike without a tach? My XT200 and my GN250 - neither of them true sports bikes - came with tachs. So, you would have no idea what the rpm is on a Tiger Boxer. No thanks. It makes me think Thais were copying a Honda 125 Sonic.

It's not often that you and I disagree, but this is one time. I don't see the need for a tach; if your engine speed is too high you shift up. If it's too low you shift down. Real sports bikes ridden to the edge of their limits leave you precious little time to look at a tach anyways.....what does a little 1/4 litre bike (or even my precious little CBR 150R) need one for?

[Richard-BKK]

Get a few things right, the Honda CBR-150R is positioned as a sport bike, as the Tiger 200PX or 250RS are positioned as all-round bikes. It is clear that the sporty section of riders, apparently, needs a tachometer to see how much they perform, normally older persons not look at the numbers but at the facts. On the road nothing is better to ride then the TIger.

Yes, you all Honda lovers, we all hear about the leak about service, etc, but still the pure riding experience is something Honda needs to look at. And then I was surprised that Honda Indonesia was not scared and used a almost identical frame as the "Thai" Tiger Motorcycle and called it a Honda Tiger (also 200cc).

Sounds to me that somebody feels the heat.....

[dotcom]

Wouldn't make a pimple on the ass of my CB400.

If the cops weren't buying Tiger it would be out of business long ago.

[PeaceBlondie]

I am going to stick with a tachometer here. Every bike I ever had, except the 1957 scooter, had a tach. If you do not know what the bike sounds like when it is going 8K and 10K, you have no idea where top power is, and might over-rev. I hate sentences like this, but "Real motorcycles and sports cars have tachometers." Even my roommate's 85 horsepower, auto transmission Hyundai Excel had a tach.

[LivinLOS]

I am going to stick with a tachometer here. Every bike I ever had, except the 1957 scooter, had a tach. If you do not know what the bike sounds like when it is going 8K and 10K, you have no idea where top power is, and might over-rev. I hate sentences like this, but "Real motorcycles and sports cars have tachometers." Even my roommate's 85 horsepower, auto transmission Hyundai Excel had a tach.

I have a tach but never look at it..

I use the feeling of power delivery to know if I am in the power band and the right rev range.. Nothing to do with the dials..

What do you do look down and change when the little needle points to 10k ??? Of course not.

[PeaceBlondie]

You use the tach to check your idle speed, and if you do not know the difference by ear between 8K and 12K, you upshift at the wrong time. I may be a silly old man, but a motorcycle without a tach is like a sports car with bench seats. It announces that the manufacturer would not know a motorcycle if it ran them over in the soi. I do not care if the Tiger has one overhead cam, air cooling, low compression ratio - so does the Honda 250. But if the designer left off the tach, what else did he overlook? I am not talking about a 200-cc engine designer in Italy in 1989 or 1992, but the guy in Thailand who designed the rest of the bike. But maybe I am wrong as usual. I just kind of doubt it would outsell the Ninja 250 in the real world.

[dave_boo]

RichardBKK;

Are you saying that Tiger is releasing the Boxer in Indonesia? Or is the competition that is supposedly coming from Yamaha/Kawasaki that is causing Honda Indonesia to release the bike you mentioned?

dotcomm;

You're probably more correct than many would like to admit!

PeaceBlondie;

I think you're over-emphasising the Tach. With the exception of your idle speed, how often are you looking at it? Also, how much would you want to bet that the majority of the engineering going into "Thai" bikes is actually performed in Thailand? Not saying that Thais are poor engineers or anything, but it's well understood that there are certain countries that are generally stereotyped about producing above average engineers.

And as a side note, the new Ninja 250 NOW ships without a Tach.......an eminently more useful fuel gauge is included!

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

Tachometers are toys on normal bikes - no more. They are useful on racing bikes where you have to stay within a certain rpm-band but on a road bike? indeed, the correct idle speed is the lowest at which the engine stays on by itself and the speed at which you shift a gear up is depending on your riding style - i can do so comfortably at 3.000 rpm but i can just as well let it scream up to 13.000 before shifting up. This determines if i do 300 kilometers with one tank full of gas or 120 kilometers

My car has a tachometer, too - it's an AUTOMATIC! Talk about a useless accessory. However still better than an empty cockpit.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[PeaceBlondie]

Okay, I give up. As soon as Ducati comes out with a four speed backward-shifting 250 without desmo gears or a fuel gauge or a decent rear brake, we can all buy one because it was designed in Italy. I am riding a Honda Phantom now - no tach, no fuel gauge, and a wheelbase that looks longer than a Buell twin.

[Richard-BKK]

Behold the Honda Tiger 200cc (http://www.astra-honda.com/product/?act=spec&p_id=7), this Honda motorcycle, manufactured by Honda Indonesia, has a similar frame as the Tiger Motorcycle 200ST Boxer.

And the Tiger Motorcycle 200ST boxer is available in most countries in South-east Asia. They even have a racing team in the Philippines.

RichardBKK;

Are you saying that Tiger is releasing the Boxer in Indonesia? Or is the competition that is supposedly coming from Yamaha/Kawasaki that is causing Honda Indonesia to release the bike you mentioned?

dotcomm;

You're probably more correct than many would like to admit!

PeaceBlondie;

I think you're over-emphasising the Tach. With the exception of your idle speed, how often are you looking at it? Also, how much would you want to bet that the majority of the engineering going into "Thai" bikes is actually performed in Thailand? Not saying that Thais are poor engineers or anything, but it's well understood that there are certain countries that are generally stereotyped about producing above average engineers.

And as a side note, the new Ninja 250 NOW ships without a Tach.......an eminently more useful fuel gauge is included!

[PeaceBlondie]

Well, maybe I have been a grump in this thread, so I need to repent. Sportbikes don't need tachometers or mag wheels or electric starters or 12 volt batteries or CDI ignitions or tubeless tires or DOHC - if it was good enough for a 1970's Ducati, it was a sport bike. I wish Tiger well and hope they sell enough Boxer 250's to embarrass Honda.

[Richard-BKK]

I also think of getting into the 250cc range of biking, we have several bigger bikes at home, but still if I need to go somewhere quick I still get stuck in traffic. Going somewhere on our shopping scooter is an option.

Downside is that most scooters are missing the performance and road handling of a good road bike. So a 250cc all-round bike would be a great option.

If Tiger Motorcycle can position its bike correctly it would be able to get a lot of attention, and without any competition. Lets face it, the Kawasaki D-Tracker or Ninja 250R are great bikes but for twice the price of the Tiger Boxer 250RS…. Other option is a 250cc Platinum motorcycle, but this 250cc Chinese build engine will not outperform a Honda CBR-150 in power and fuel economics. Then there are rumors of a Sachs X-road 250, but before that gets available and what about the performance…. The current Sachs MadAss 125 can simply not perform like simple Honda Wave 125…

If we start thinking of importing a bike, like the Honda CBR-250 from Malaysia it would not be that easy, but still parts would all need to come from outside Thailand. A Japanese friend even suggested that I should import a Honda VTR 250 from Japan. But the VTR-250 is even for Japanese standards an expensive ride.

[ktmgary]

@cresstt If Tiger is using a Honda clone engine, can you maybe specify which Honda engine they cloned?

boxer is using the famous single cylinder sohc honda engines which is used on the CG(125), XR(185,200) and CRF (150,230) since the 70s with different stroke and bore, hence the displacements varieties. Currently most of these engines are manufactured in CHina by either Lifan or Zongshen. On my Boxer, there are a lot of ZS markings on the innards of the engine. So I believe TIger is using Honda-clones engine manufactured by Zongshen.

A lot of these honda-clone engines are making a comeback and used on dirt bikes. There are some being used on street bikes like the Zongshen GS200. Check out www.chinariders.net, a us based website with chinese dirt bikes majority equipped with these honda-clones.

Try to do a search using the keyword "zongshen" on ebay and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I did a few quick checks with parts manuals I have from Honda and a Tiger Boxer 200cc engine, but I cannot find any parts that would be compatible (other then some screws or bolts). Maybe you can be a bit more specific with what is cloned by Tiger motorcycle for the boxer engine?

its not 100% identical per say, the layout of the engines are the same. The differ in terms of bore and stroke. Majority parts are the same. lets take for example the oil filter under the right hand side of the crank cover (where the clutch plates are).. these oil filters are the same as the ones used on cgs and xrs. Also, timing chains are identical. A lot of the items are. You're not going to find the same HONDA part numbers if your browsing parts fiche for both Hondas and its clones. The crank and head gaskets are definitely not the same as they differ in terms of the bore X stroke. You have to do a visual inspection and compare them side by side in order to know that there are identical. Majority cranks on these engines are identical.

Also remember that Chinese do a incorporate a bit of innovation into their Honda-clone engine design. On some models with the same engine, they built a counter balancer into the engine, these engine will definitely have different parts because of the different components. Even within the Chinese manufactures who share the same engine blueprints, they have slightly different engine casing design and also different innards. The HOnda CRF engines are a different kind of beast. They're they latest much powerfully design of which were built using the XR, CG from the 80s and 90s. Lifan and ZS and a few other are using the blueprints from the same 80s and 90s engine design.

I've two Chinese motorcyles, both with the single cylinder engine honda clones. One is 150cc pushrod counter balanced and the other is the boxer 198cc sohc engine. Both engines looks the same but the innards differ slightly but i bet I can interchange the voltage rectifier, rotor winding, magneto, carbs , ig coil etc etc.

Hello Cresst, I imported 6 Tiger models into the US two years ago. I have put many miles on them to evaluate which models could be viable in our market. Anyway, while rotating the carburetor on the Boxer 200 for adjustment, the rubber intake connector (between carburetor and cyclinder) ripped open. You say the Boxer motor is based on XR 185/200, which is common in US. Would the rubber connector be same as XR185/200? Thanks in advance for your advice!

[mgjackson69]

Hi

I haven't ridden a Boxer but i think they must be reliable and fast - or why would the POLICE use them? And they sure use a lot of them.

Best regards.....

Thanh

The police would use them because someone greased the wheels and landed a contract to supply motorcycles to the police.

Governments do not typically buy what is "best"...they buy what is cheapest, or buy from someone who is connected.

Think about the US Government back in the late '70s/early '80s...there were lots of bureaucrats driving around in Chrysler K-cars...enough said.

[mgjackson69]

That is a very ambitious lineup of models for a Thai company which is not well known in Thailand. Good luck to them, especially considering the increased competition.

Checking here, http://www.globelicsindia2006.org/Patarapo...tarakumnerd.pdf

I found that the Thai retail motorcycle market for 2003 amounted to

Honda 72%

Suzuki 13%

Yamaha 10%

Tiger 3%

Kawasaki 2%

I found no mention of JRD, Platinum, Ducati, Moto-Guzzi, or Harley knock-offs. Tiger and Kawasaki each had a miniscule share of the total market, but by now it may be slightly different. Not that I have seen more than a few Tigers in the last few years (or many Kawas other than the obvious KSR110). So, for Tiger to say they are going to field about 15 models this year, strains credulity. I am often mistaken, of course.

That is quite a change, as four years ago Honda had 90%+ of the market.

For whatever reason, Thais do look at Thai brands as inferior. Plus, Thais in general are followers, not leaders. So if Somchai buys a Honda, Sakchai is likely to buy a Honda also, probably the same model and color.

I bought a Tiger Smart 125 3 years ago (at the suggestion of my Thai wife, strangely enough). I have ridden the snot out of it in BKK and environs, plus taken a few trips between BKK and Korat. The only thing that I have had to do is adjust the clutch (early on, perhaps at 1000 km) and service. Everything else has been normal wear (for me, this includes bent rims). I went through several rear tubes and one tire before I realized that my tire-management routine (i.e. checking pressures) needed to be modified from what I did in USA (the tires actually hold pressure there, for many months).

Would I buy another Tiger motorcycle? Probably so...the 250 Boxer sounds interesting.

[hyls]

The Tiger Boxer 200I own a Tiger Boxer 200SE. Bought it in December 2006 and are very unsatisfied about the quality. The people who constructed this bike used materials of inferior quality. Especially the plastic body work and the electronics are flawed. Because of driving a lot of kms on bumpy Isan roads, some of them are non-asphalt or full of holes, caused the headlight fairing to have broken off. Also the rubbers that are connected to the fittings have worn out in about a year time. But the worst problem is the eletronic system, especially the alterator which has never really worked since the moment I bought my bike. The mechanics at the shop in Buri Ram also don't seem to know how to solve the problem. Every time after having recharded the battery I can start the bike with electric starter for about a week up to two weeks maximum. Then it has to be recharged again. Unfortunately I haven't got much expertise about mechanics and can't fix it myself. The dealer should do that, but they play it down by saying it's normal and that the capacity of the alternator isn't sufficient for recharging because the electronics of the bike are allegedly too heavy consuming for the battery and alternator. At least that's their explanation. Very frustrating.

Has anyone got a Tiger Boxer 200SE or know someone who does and heard about this battery charging problem? I'd really like to know from someone else if there's anything know at the Tiger main company of how to solve this problem.

One more thing, there's cracks in the rear plastic bodywork as well. Don't know how that happened. Perhaps I drive the bike too fast. Sometimes I like to try it out and push it very hard. At fastest it can do a 180 km/h on the speedometer, which is about 160 in real. That however I managed only once on a 4-lane motorway with a lot of wind in my back and downhill (as far as it could be called a hill here in lower Isan). Usually it does about 80-100 cruising with no troubles at all although beyond that speed fuel consumption is high, about 30km on a liter. Usually when cruising at about 80 it can do nearly 40 kms on a liter. Also gasohol doesn't really seem to be a problem although I feel that maximum power has decreased slightly.

All in all it's would have been a very good bike, if the aftersales service wasn't so bad and the build quality would have been improved at some spots, e.g.: better rubbers and fairings so as to eliminate vibration at speeds above 80-100 kmh, better quality male and female screws, improved battery+alternator, new headlight and a better connection to the front fork.

Someone any ideas about how to replace the connection of the headlight fairing and rubbers to the front fork or make it stronger, so the headlight won't be inclined to fall off again?

Or does someone know a very experienced Tiger mechanic somewhere in Isan in the area of Buri Ram / Nakorn Ratchasima (Khorat)?

Also see my comments on Tiger Boxer 200

You'll know which of the comments is mine. It's the long and quite negative one.

Have all of the weaknesses from the old version I own been improved in the new 250RS?

[mgjackson69]

I am going to stick with a tachometer here. Every bike I ever had, except the 1957 scooter, had a tach. If you do not know what the bike sounds like when it is going 8K and 10K, you have no idea where top power is, and might over-rev. I hate sentences like this, but "Real motorcycles and sports cars have tachometers." Even my roommate's 85 horsepower, auto transmission Hyundai Excel had a tach.

That disproves your statement right there...I would hardly call a Hyundai Excel a "sports car"

"Real riders/drivers do not need a tach to tell them where the "sweet spot" is"

[BSJ]

Hi hyls, sounds like some of the 50's British bikes I have owned in the long distant past. But being in the bush I had to fix lots of things myself...sometimes with dads help, sometimes on my own. It pays to learn a bit of the mechanical stuff even today. Do any local colleges have bike maintenance classes?

Guys and girls, Tiger 250 instrument panel, whats the rectangle shaped thing? Could that be a blank plastic cover for a future digital tacho??? Like, an electronic tacho fitted at the factory would only add a few baht...say 80 to 100 per bike. Maybe someone could call the factory and suggest that. Make a lot of folk happy wouldn't it, yes/no?