Burning Continues And Air Quality Issues

[amexpat]

Everyone seems to be convinced that the fog in front of Doi Suthep is all air pollution, but I remember it being much thicker when I first visited in 1989 when Chiang Mai didn't have a big pollution problem.

It seems to me, that if it were all pollution, most people would be coughing and uncomfortable all the time, but most people aren't. I think that quite a bit of it must be natural fog from some source.

Gasp! (caused by disbelief as well as this week's respiratory problem).

Are you saying Chiang Mai has a big pollution problem?

.

[Ulysses G.]

I have never denied that Chiang Mai has a pollution problem during a few months per year and that is has gotten worse in the last few years, but I do maintain that it is not nearly as bad as some folks on this forum have made it out to be, and no reason for tourists in normal health to avoid Chiang Mai.

Edited April 9, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Priceless]

Don't worry, I won't bore everybody to death by repeating my exceedingly long post from this thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=166411

However, a very brief summary might be in order:

- Chiang Mai does have a big pollution problem during March of almost every year.

- This year has so far been much better than the previous and in fact than almost every year since 2000.

- Measured on yearly average, Chiang Mai appears to be one of the least polluted places in Thailand.

Here is a repeat of my graph showing the monthly average pollution levels for four of the more popular (among farangs) locations in Thailand:

As one can see from the graph, Chiang Mai is pretty much on a par with the other locations during January, February and April, much higher during March and lower, or much lower, for the rest of the year.

Enjoy the fresh air

/ Priceless

[Mapguy]

Don't worry, I won't bore everybody to death by repeating my exceedingly long post from this thread: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=166411

However, a very brief summary might be in order:

- Chiang Mai does have a big pollution problem during March of almost every year.

- This year has so far been much better than the previous and in fact than almost every year since 2000.

- Measured on yearly average, Chiang Mai appears to be one of the least polluted places in Thailand.

Here is a repeat of my graph showing the monthly average pollution levels for four of the more popular (among farangs) locations in Thailand:

As one can see from the graph, Chiang Mai is pretty much on a par with the other locations during January, February and April, much higher during March and lower, or much lower, for the rest of the year.

Enjoy the fresh air

/ Priceless

Yes, yes, and yes.

I heartily agree with Priceless that we should enjoy the clean air, defined in our ongoing discussion as air with low levels of PM<10 particulate matter, when we have it. In fact, I have just returned to my computer after rushing around all over the house to open all the windows since it just started raining!! Sounds strange, doesn't it: opening the windows when it rains?! But I think many who live here in Chiang Mai probably do the same thing!

Regarding the graph posted by Priceless, it is helpful if you wish to have comparisons among places. Here is another graph that Priceless posted previously that is also helpful in understanding what the story is here in Chiang Mai.

The second graph, like the first one, is not completely useful. One graph rarely reveals the whole story of a complex situation. This graph shows weekly averages in Chiang Mai in 2007 which was a stinker of a year, a record-breaker for March and the worst since 1996 or 1999, I believe. Let's call it a "Chicken Little" graph; that is, a graph which reflects the "worst case." More simply said, last year in March, the air in Chiang Mai resembled something Dante probably wrote about in describing hel_l in The Inferno.

If it were truly possible given the best available data, there would be a huge challenge for Priceless to try to evaluate a trend over time when it comes to PM<10 pollution. For many, many reasons suffered by researchers, it is extraordinarily difficult, if not convincingly possible, to do. Nevermind getting into that here. The going gets very heavy.

But I suggest that the second graph is readable (in terms of peaks and valleys of PM<10 pollution) of what goes on during the year. So, I do suggest that the problems start in January, worsen in February, and peak in March. Then, thank God, the rains (not thanks to "rain making," really) begin to come!

But Priceless and I, nor many of you, I think, who read this board are like George W. Bush, the American president, who has said for nearly all of the last eight years he has been in office that there really isn't "convincing evidence" of "Global Warming!" But as they say, that's another story...

So, do your best to do something about pollution in Chinag Mai, for a start, as many posters have suggested.

Much more on that later! For now, the best "HOTLINE NUMBER" IS 053.409.345 to report fires. The 1362 number is a national number for the whole country!

dam_n it! The rain has stopped already!

2007_Weekly_Pm_10_Graph_CM.pdf

Edited April 9, 2008 by Mapguy

[Priceless]

Yes, yes, and yes.

I heartily agree with Priceless that we should enjoy the clean air, defined in our ongoing discussion as air with low levels of PM<10 particulate matter, when we have it. In fact, I have just returned to my computer after rushing around all over the house to open all the windows since it just started raining!! Sounds strange, doesn't it: opening the windows when it rains?! But I think many who live here in Chiang Mai probably do the same thing!

Regarding the graph posted by Priceless, it is helpful if you wish to have comparisons among places. Here is another graph that Priceless posted previously that is also helpful in understanding what the story is here in Chiang Mai.

The second graph, like the first one, is not completely useful. One graph rarely reveals the whole story of a complex situation. This graph shows weekly averages in Chiang Mai in 2007 which was a stinker of a year, a record-breaker for March and the worst since 1996 or 1999, I believe. Let's call it a "Chicken Little" graph; that is, a graph which reflects the "worst case." More simply said, last year in March, the air in Chiang Mai resembled something Dante probably wrote about in describing hel_l in The Inferno.

If it were truly possible given the best available data, there would be a huge challenge for Priceless to try to evaluate a trend over time when it comes to PM<10 pollution. For many, many reasons suffered by researchers, it is extraordinarily difficult, if not convincingly possible, to do. Nevermind getting into that here. The going gets very heavy.

But I suggest that the second graph is readable (in terms of peaks and valleys of PM<10 pollution) of what goes on during the year. So, I do suggest that the problems start in January, worsen in February, and peak in March. Then, thank God, the rains (not thanks to "rain making," really) begin to come!

But Priceless and I, nor many of you, I think, who read this board are like George W. Bush, the American president, who has said for nearly all of the last eight years he has been in office that there really isn't "convincing evidence" of "Global Warming!" But as they say, that's another story...

So, do your best to do something about pollution in Chinag Mai, for a start, as many posters have suggested.

Much more on that later! For now, the best "HOTLINE NUMBER" IS 053.409.345 to report fires. The 1362 number is a national number for the whole country!

dam_n it! The rain has stopped already!

A few quotes and comments:

"Regarding the graph posted by Priceless, it is helpful if you wish to have comparisons among places." It is also helpful if you want to get an idea of what the usual annual pattern of pollution looks like. This is a good idea if you want to find the underlying causes to this pollution.

"Here is another graph that Priceless posted previously that is also helpful in understanding what the story is here in Chiang Mai." I am not sure I agree with this. Drawing conclusions from that graph is a little bit like drawing conclusions about tsunamis in the Andaman Sea from statistics from 2004. 2007 in Chiang Mai combined a number of somewhat extraordinary circumstances in the form of 1/ an unusual number of forest fires in neighbouring countries, 2/ an unusually persistent inversion over the "Chiang Mai basin", 3/ absolutely no rain for six months and so on. There is probably very little anybody can do about 1/ in the short to medium term, we are talking about two of the poorest countries in Asia, if not the world. Unless science and technology takes a hitherto unheard of leap ahead, there will probably be nothing at all we can do about 2/ or 3/ in the remaining lifespan of mankind.

"But I suggest that the second graph is readable (in terms of peaks and valleys of PM<10 pollution) of what goes on during the year." This is one of the points where Mapguy and I seem to constantly disagree. He thinks that conclusions about recurring patterns can be drawn from data for a single day, a single week, month or year, I don't. I think that the (2007) graph is useful in illustrating what happened during that year, nothing more, nothing less.

BTW, human memory is a funny thing Most people don't seem to realise/remember that March of 2004 was almost as bad as that of 2007 (the average pollution in that month 2007 was only 5% higher than in 2004). On a yearly basis, 2004 was considerably worse than 2007 with nearly 17% higher average PM-10 pollution. What really was worse in 2007 was the worst individual day with almost 100% higher pollution than the worst day of March 2004.

Finally, comparing March in Chiang Mai with Dante's Inferno may be going just a little bit far... The record-breaking March of 2007 in Chiang Mai was still better than the averages for December and January in Samut Prakarn One more graph to illustrate my point (btw, these averages are based on 2000-2008 data):

/ Priceless

[Mapguy]

Yes, yes, and yes.

I heartily agree with Priceless that we should enjoy the clean air, defined in our ongoing discussion as air with low levels of PM<10 particulate matter, when we have it. In fact, I have just returned to my computer after rushing around all over the house to open all the windows since it just started raining!! Sounds strange, doesn't it: opening the windows when it rains?! But I think many who live here in Chiang Mai probably do the same thing!

Regarding the graph posted by Priceless, it is helpful if you wish to have comparisons among places. Here is another graph that Priceless posted previously that is also helpful in understanding what the story is here in Chiang Mai.

The second graph, like the first one, is not completely useful. One graph rarely reveals the whole story of a complex situation. This graph shows weekly averages in Chiang Mai in 2007 which was a stinker of a year, a record-breaker for March and the worst since 1996 or 1999, I believe. Let's call it a "Chicken Little" graph; that is, a graph which reflects the "worst case." More simply said, last year in March, the air in Chiang Mai resembled something Dante probably wrote about in describing hel_l in The Inferno.

If it were truly possible given the best available data, there would be a huge challenge for Priceless to try to evaluate a trend over time when it comes to PM<10 pollution. For many, many reasons suffered by researchers, it is extraordinarily difficult, if not convincingly possible, to do. Nevermind getting into that here. The going gets very heavy.

But I suggest that the second graph is readable (in terms of peaks and valleys of PM<10 pollution) of what goes on during the year. So, I do suggest that the problems start in January, worsen in February, and peak in March. Then, thank God, the rains (not thanks to "rain making," really) begin to come!

But Priceless and I, nor many of you, I think, who read this board are like George W. Bush, the American president, who has said for nearly all of the last eight years he has been in office that there really isn't "convincing evidence" of "Global Warming!" But as they say, that's another story...

So, do your best to do something about pollution in Chinag Mai, for a start, as many posters have suggested.

Much more on that later! For now, the best "HOTLINE NUMBER" IS 053.409.345 to report fires. The 1362 number is a national number for the whole country!

dam_n it! The rain has stopped already!

A few quotes and comments:

"Regarding the graph posted by Priceless, it is helpful if you wish to have comparisons among places." It is also helpful if you want to get an idea of what the usual annual pattern of pollution looks like. This is a good idea if you want to find the underlying causes to this pollution.

That is true. Annual patterns can be useful. Usually that is what you find in most data banks. My apologies for not mentioning that, but they don't always tell the whole story even though annual means are very handy because, mainly, people find easier understanding using them when, otherwise, they might be going totally bonkers trying to make comparisons of data within the same time frame or over time.

(And my apologies for what looks like shouting. I'm just trying to make my responses clearer. I'm not ranting....really!)

"Here is another graph that Priceless posted previously that is also helpful in understanding what the story is here in Chiang Mai." I am not sure I agree with this. Drawing conclusions from that graph is a little bit like drawing conclusions about tsunamis in the Andaman Sea from statistics from 2004. 2007 in Chiang Mai combined a number of somewhat extraordinary circumstances in the form of 1/ an unusual number of forest fires in neighbouring countries, 2/ an unusually persistent inversion over the "Chiang Mai basin", 3/ absolutely no rain for six months and so on. There is probably very little anybody can do about 1/ in the short to medium term, we are talking about two of the poorest countries in Asia, if not the world. Unless science and technology takes a hitherto unheard of leap ahead, there will probably be nothing at all we can do about 2/ or 3/ in the remaining lifespan of mankind.

I suggested that the graph should be considered a "worst case," but that if further analysis were done a very similar pattern over time would emerge.

"But I suggest that the second graph is readable (in terms of peaks and valleys of PM<10 pollution) of what goes on during the year." This is one of the points where Mapguy and I seem to constantly disagree. He thinks that conclusions about recurring patterns can be drawn from data for a single day, a single week, month or year, I don't. I think that the (2007) graph is useful in illustrating what happened during that year, nothing more, nothing less.

We do not really disagree. But read and weep over any reasonable weekly, monthly, annual or longer analysis in this case. Anyway you graph it, March for reasons we all know means really nasty air. My additional point is that January and February aren't necessarily good months either for a picnic in the park although less bothersome for good health and good business. But on a lot of days, you won't see much beyond the immediate trees!

BTW, human memory is a funny thing Most people don't seem to realise/remember that March of 2004 was almost as bad as that of 2007 (the average pollution in that month 2007 was only 5% higher than in 2004). On a yearly basis, 2004 was considerably worse than 2007 with nearly 17% higher average PM-10 pollution. What really was worse in 2007 was the worst individual day with almost 100% higher pollution than the worst day of March 2004.

What can I say? I wasn't here in 2004! Why didn't you mention this before, Priceless? Not fair! You are saying that March 2004 was only 5% less cruddy than March 2007? And that 2004 was considerably worse...annually? I apologize if I missed that or those posts --- we are up to nine pages just on this topic heading, let alone the other similar ones --- but haven't you written repeatedly that 2007 was the worst year in the millennium and not mentioning (as I can recall) 2004 as another priceless (sorry!) March or year? Hey, guy! The millennium is only about eight years old!! That's a "wide," cricket fans, in any sport!!

Anyway, you are correct about memory. Memory does tend to fade fast, faster about bad memories (a finding of many psychological studies). But, neither year was a happy event, agreed?

Finally, comparing March in Chiang Mai with Dante's Inferno may be going just a little bit far... The record-breaking March of 2007 in Chiang Mai was still better than the averages for December and January in Samut Prakarn One more graph to illustrate my point (btw, these averages are based on 2000-2008 data:

Okay, okay! A little literary license! Apologies! But egad, Priceless! Samut Prakarn is probably the pit of Hades (in Thailand, at least). You then graph Lampang with all that mining and unscrubed emissions from the power plant ??!! Do you think that Four Seasons will put in a new five-star spa there? Oy!! Come on, fella!

/ Priceless

Appreciate you much, anyway!

Edited April 9, 2008 by Mapguy

[Priceless]

My apologies for not posting all the data/information that I have collected and processed during my "research". However, I think a lot of people consider my posts rather boring anyway, without my posting all my over 100 tables and graphs, not to mention ~18,000 data items. ("Worst year" is all about definitions: 2007 was the worst in terms of highest daily pollution level and highest monthly average, while 2004 has the highest annual average.)

BTW, where did you find the information about 1996 being a very polluted year that you mentioned in an earlier post? According to what I have been able to find out, Thailand hadn't started measuring PM-10 pollution by that time

/ Priceless

[Mapguy]

From time to time, people have posted comments comparing pollution (generally PM<10 levels) in different places, generally in Thailand. The article noted below from the BBC focuses briefly on Beijing:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7494656.stm

The astonishing plans China has to clear the air also make you gasp: the "dirty industries" in major industrial centers as far as 100km away are now virtually being shut down for at least two months! Polluting government vehicles are being removed from the streets of Beijing which will also have alternate day driving for privately-owned vehicles. And on and on and on. And this after they have purposely toyed with the location of air pollution measuring stations as well as having toyed with the numbers those stations have reported!

I do not look forward to Northern Thailand's "smoky season," which extends roughly from late February - early April,

but Beijing is truly nasty.

Edited July 8, 2008 by Mapguy

[Ajarn]

Everyone seems to be convinced that the fog in front of Doi Suthep is all air pollution, but I remember it being much thicker when I first visited in 1989 when Chiang Mai didn't have a big pollution problem.

It seems to me, that if it were all pollution, most people would be coughing and uncomfortable all the time, but most people aren't. I think that quite a bit of it must be natural fog from some source.

I think a lot of it is simply visible humidity. Commonly thought of as pollution, but it is not.

[papajohn]

Everyone seems to be convinced that the fog in front of Doi Suthep is all air pollution, but I remember it being much thicker when I first visited in 1989 when Chiang Mai didn't have a big pollution problem.

It seems to me, that if it were all pollution, most people would be coughing and uncomfortable all the time, but most people aren't. I think that quite a bit of it must be natural fog from some source.

I think a lot of it is simply visible humidity. Commonly thought of as pollution, but it is not.

I agree with you UG, I ride up Doi Suthep mountain in the early mornings. What I see from that vantage point of the mountain is fog that is streaming across the city from the south to the north. It is quite nice to see these narrow streams of clouds in motion.From the city it can look like smog but it is just a natural fog rolling thru the valley. It is not smoke! I have seen the fires burning across the valley

and the trail of the smoke that

these fires generate. Most are way out in Sangkanpang to the

mountains in the west and blow north, not to the city. Of course the wind can change, but we will smell the smoke in the air.

2008 I only smell the salt air from the Monsoons I miss the ocean.

Visible humidity is correct !

Good call.

[Ulysses G.]

I don't understand why this visible humidity is apparent much of the year and no one seems to notice it, but come February, all and sundry point it out as "air pollution" and start threatening to leave town. .

[Blinky Bill]

I don't understand why this visible humidity is apparent much of the year and no one seems to notice it, but come February, all and sundry point it out as "air pollution" and start threatening to leave town. .

But sadly UG, most don't follow through with their threats. If these "experts" left it would rid Chiang Mai of a lot of verbal (and written) pollution.

[sylviex]

Not strictly on topic but climate-related :

INTG MEETING

Tuesday, July 15th 2008 - 303rd Meeting

At the Alliance Française - Chiang Mai - 7:30 pm

"Global Warming Scenarios for Thailand"

A talk and presentation by Jere Locke

Jere Locke, Outreach Coordinator for Environment Texas, is building global

warming coalitions in 12 Texas congressional districts. He will do a

presentation on global warming which will include the following:

- Reflections on the Bali UN Climate Conference this past December which he

attended.

- Update on the latest scientific reports including NASA's Dr. James

Hansen's recently released research which recommends a new upper limit for

emissions. This study and others have huge implications for Thailand and

all of Asia. Dr. Hansen is the world's foremost global warming scientist.

- Update on the political process at both the US and international levels.

- Suggestions about what we all might do.

Jere writes: My topic will be Global Warming. I did political organizing on

globalization before coming to Chiang Mai 4.5 years ago. I was the founder

and director of Texas Fair Trade Coalition, which included Texas Sierra

Club, Texas AFL-CIO, Texas Farmers Union and about 50 other organizations.

Last December, I went to the UN Climate Conference in Bali with Via

Campesina, an international organization of small farmers and peasant. I

was representing my foundation called Texas Harambe (Swahili for let's work

together). Before going I was blissfully ignorant of the UN process

thinking it would take care of the problem. However, while there I became

alarmed at how flawed it was. On returning I started to read and became

more and more alarmed. This led me to talk with a variety of prominent

people in the US, take a trip there in February to attend the national

meeting of the Env. Grantmakers Association organized by the Rockefeller

Brothers Foundation.

In April I return to Texas to work with Environment America for three

months building coalitions in 12 congressional districts there. Before I go

I will meet with Kansri Boongrapob, a Thai member of the IPCC which

recently got the Nobel Prize with Al Gore.

From my readings and various talks with knowledgeable people the science

seems to be telling us that Thailand can expect Bangkok to be flooded in

the not too distant future and for the rice harvest here to be severely

curtailed. All this information is based on IPCC reports. Presently

scientists at three Thai universities are using three different computer

models to get a better idea of global warming scenarios for Thailand.

However, these won't be ready until over a year from now.

What I'd be talking about is the state of the UN process which is our one

and only hope, and what we can expect to happen here in Thailand and

elsewhere as the temperatures go up.

[highonthai]

I like The smell burning stuff, it doesn't bother me. And lived thru the smog crisis (70's) in Los angeles. I don't trust any air I cant see...

An easier solution would be to move. I came here to get away from tree huggers.

Man, this topic is just plain boring.

Why don't we talk about how so and so lost his house/car/bike to his girlfriend.

[cloudhopper]

I like the smell of some burning stuff but won't go into it here, and being a pilot I prefer air I can't see.

Esthetics aside, one need look no farther than the devastating fires sweeping my home state of California to realize that maybe there is something to be said for burning off the deadwood every year instead of postponing the inevitable catastrophe. It would seem that the overall amount of CO2 released in the overall carbon cycle is the same whether dead plants decay or are burned but this is just a guess. Burning plastic and the rest is another matter though, as is the automotive and industrial pollution that invariably accompany any large city.

I find this topic interesting and will thank Priceless for the charts. As much as I love it here in the rainy season, being out of here in March and April is definitely the healthier option...

[vagabond48]

As much as I love it here in the rainy season, being out of here in March and April is definitely the healthier option...

I have been here almost 2 years and I have to ask "what rainy season?".

As I ride my a bicycle daily, I don't like the rain but I have to assume the little rain we have gotten here is not good for the land.

Edited July 15, 2008 by vagabond48

[Jefferson]

I don't understand why this visible humidity is apparent much of the year and no one seems to notice it, but come February, all and sundry point it out as "air pollution" and start threatening to leave town.

Wait a minute.. Feb/March is the dryest month of the year. There's VERY low humidity of any kind. This is not morning mist, this hangs around all day all night; at the worst times you cannot see even buildings in town that you can normally see.

Compare this to the rainy season; here there could be morning fog and its NICE. It also clears away and then you can see for miles and miles, not just Doi Suthep mind, but all the way to Doi Inthanon. You can easily see Doi Inthanon from town in the rainy season when humidity is highest.

So I think it doesn't fly. Note that I'm not saying that the pollution in March is the end of life as we know it, but nice to look at it is not.

[Ulysses G.]

I can see Doi Suthep from my window and it looks pretty much the same all year round - including rainy season - but some people go on and on about how you can see how polluted it is in February and March by looking at the mountain. I don't think that most of it is pollution at any time of year.

[Mapguy]

I can see Doi Suthep from my window and it looks pretty much the same all year round - including rainy season - but some people go on and on about how you can see how polluted it is in February and March by looking at the mountain. I don't think that most of it is pollution at any time of year.

Well, I am one of those people who "go on and on!" I should be able to see the mountain clearly from my balcony all year long. I am on the western side of the city between the moat and the mountain. I can't.

I find what you are writing is highly misrepresentative of the reality of pollution problems in Chiang Mai. It seems slanted to suggest that there is no problem with pollution in Chiang Mai, or that visible air pollution is relatively minor, that what folks are really seeing is mostly mist caused by high humidity. That is an unsubstantiated opinion that is utterly misleading.

Your post is consistent with several other posts (some recent) which tend to downplay the unfortunate pollution problems that Chiang Mai has to deal with. I wish that such posters were as persistent in doing whatever they can to eliminate the problem. One step, of course, is to keep the problem in the public eye. It is one aspect of what has become known more broadly on a global scale as an "inconvenient truth."

During the dry season (roughly from late January through early April) when it is least humid and the air pollution is at its worst, the mountain is often obscured. On some days you cannot even make out its outline from the west side of town, let alone tell what color the foliage is! Where's the magnificent Wat Phrathat Doi Suthep? What wat?! When the humidity is high in other seasons, as now, despite some lovely clouds from time to time, occasionally morning mist, or when a storm front comes over the ridge, the mountain is clearly visible. The wat often literally sparkles in the morning sun.

UG, you have yourself noted here and there on the forum that you do not deny a pollution problem in the dry season. You have also reported that your business has recently gone down because the number of tourists in town has dropped significantly since February 2007. There are certainly various reasons for that including a general economic downturn, a significant rise in air transportation costs, and some concern about an unstable political situation in Thailand. Unfortunately, another valid reason seasonally is air pollution. People aren't fools. The number of days spent here goes down since they leave early, they go home and tell their friends, post their experiences on the Internet, and so on.

I wish you well in your business. For those who don't know, it is buying and selling used books. I think it is a truly useful enterprise. Wish that I had been smart enough to think of it! And I am concerned about how well others in town are doing economically. Hotel occupancy rates at 20% during the first half of 2008! Oy! I have friends who are truly hurting. I am not in business, but it isn't helping my property values at all.

Your post above focused on the mountain. One of the two major themes that is used in promoting tourism is the natural beauty of northern Thailand. Well, if you can't see it and you might choke on the air, then why visit? True, there are other reasons to visit, but I think you get my point.

The impact on public health is also significant. The seasonal statistics on respiratory disease clearly show the impact of air pollution (principally PM<10). You have noted previously that air pollution doesn't affect all people the same. That's certainly true; some are not as bothered as others, but it is unpleasant to worse for many people. You certainly must have some friends with asthma or allergies. Small children, the elderly, or those with weaker immune systems are particularly vulnerable. Hospital and clinic visits for respiratory problems skyrocket in Chiang Mai (and northern Thailand, generally) when the air pollution is high.

Some TV members have posted that if you can't take it, leave! That suggestion has a certain commonsensical appeal to it but it is appallingly uncharitable to those who for many reasons can't do that. Not everyone is a rich farang with a lot of discretionary income and few responsibilities to tie them to their homes here.

So, what to do about the impact of pollution upon tourism? When it comes to travel agent marketing and people planning trips, neither should have the perception that Chiang Mai (and northern Thailand, more generally) is always especially hazardous to your health. The city probably isn't generally any more hazardous to your health than most urban centers in economically developing countries and a lot nicer than many. I think that the seasonality of the problem makes a solution problematic short of eliminating the problem or substantially alleviating it. That is not easy, but it won't happen unless people are persistent. That includes folks like you and me who make this town home.

Active or passive resistance to solving pollution problems aren't new. Such resistance has been typical around the globe. Wouldn't it be smart to break that unfortunate pattern and get on with solving the problem? Everything to gain by it. In my book, the public health considerations are more significant, but economic good health is certainly also vital to making this community sustainable.

For references on this problem and other challenges facing Chiang Mai please get a copy of Sustainable Cities in Chiang Mai: A Case of a City in a Valley. It has been published in English (2008) as well as in Thai (2005) by Chiang Mai Sangsilp Printing Ltd., Part. Email: [email protected] The author, Duongchan Apavatjrut Charoenmuang, may be reached at [email protected] . Ajarn Duongchan is a senior researcher at the Social Research Institute, Chiang Mai University.

[Ulysses G.]

You are correct; I think that we have a pollution problem in the dry season that is mostly caused by the annual, traditional burning of forests in the mountains of Thailand, Burma and Laos by local people who have no intention of halting. I don't have the slightest idea of how all of these people in different countries can be stopped and no one else seems to either.

Several years ago there was an unusual weather pattern over Northern Thailand for several weeks and much of the city was covered with smoke. It has made Chiang Mai infamous for something that has only happened once.

It does not help that the internet has been filled with stories about how Chiang Mai has the worst pollution in the world - which is not even close to the truth - and other such absurdities. The people who dream them up must be neurotic.

In fact, during normal years, I suffer very little discomfort at that time of year - a few coughs once in a while -and hardly notice any smoke at all. I'm not saying that someone with a lung disease would not notice something in the air, but people in normal health don't seem to and I am around tourists all day every day and they don't seem to be bothered.

As far as Doi Suthep goes, it is "cloudy" all year round and it is often difficult to see the Wat, but during dry season some folks insist that it is always covered with smoke. I'm no expert, but it looks the same as the rest of the year and I just don't think so.

There is nothing wrong with trying to influence the Thai people to get their house in order, be it pollution or any thing else, but we as guests can only do so much. Saturating the internet with wild exaggerations about local problems - even with good motives - is going to hurt more than it helps anything.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Blinky Bill]

Mapguy and Ulysses G are currently working on their 2nd novel.

[Mapguy]

Thanks, Blinky Bill, for the laugh. Now, please go get another beer from the fridge.

UG, I sense frustration in the face of a large problem rather than cynicism in you.

Yes, expatriates are "guests" in Thailand, but the problem we are dealing with is a people problem, not one of citizenship. Thailand is home for you and me, too. If you are implying that the people of Thailand are indifferent to air pollution, I think you are wrong. The scenario being played out is typical of any I have seen in the past, everywhere. Can other than Thai citizens make a contribution? Of course! In fact, the Royal House of Thailand has been notable in its wise use of constructive input of advisors who weren't or aren't Thai. That goes back more than 100 years.

About absurd generalities, I am at least as annoyed or more so about them than you are. They are the unfortunate opposite of what I think is even more damaging: obfuscating, avoiding, ignoring or diminishing an "inconvenient truth." You are right. Chiang Mai isn't Beijing --- or worse! On the other hand, you can't ignore reality. When it comes to Doi Suthep, I really don't need new spectacles, and my windows are clean. Have you cleaned the air filter on your air conditioner? I have. Nasty stuff! It isn't humidity, and it isn't angel dust, my friend!

It seems that you and I personally are not terribly bothered by heavy smoke. I have not worn a face mask yet, although I have gotten them for the family. Guess I feel I am so young (foolish) or so old (what difference does it make?!) that I don't. But, UG, that's nasty stuff in the air! Maybe we should don the masks. Maybe we should think more about the more than a few people who are affected by the polluted air. My daughter, for one, is. Not in a big way, but the number of respiratory attacks she suffers clearly increase during the awful season. What does that mean for her in the future --- or for others so affected or much worse bothered? Mai pen rai? Leave it to others? That doesn't ring right for me. I don't believe that rings right for you either.

Which side of this, UG, do you think the good guys are on? If you don't choose to be an activist, fine, but why would you want to diminish or ignore what really is an "inconvenient truth?" You have a soft spot in your heart for the stray kittens of Chiang Mai. What's with the obstinence about air pollution, for pete's sake?! If you are talking about incautious or ineffectual solutions to problems, I am all in favor of careful navigation to a solution.

In any season, why do the police is Chiang Mai wear face masks? To avoid chapped lips?! I don't think so! From time to time I pass an itinerant tailor parked on the side of the road doing her work, and she wears a face mask, too. Why is that? Do you think it is silly?

Or check the numbers.

You are right. 2007 was a real bummer in part caused by a nasty blocked temperature inversion over the valley that trapped a lot of smoke from the north and west. This year wasn't as bad at all --- but it was still bad. How bad?

Well, whether to look at Doi Suthep or just to read the numbers --- the best available data and the WHO (World Health Organization) interim air pollution standards that Thailand uses --- there is a serious problem. That's not to say that Thailand has picked inappropriate standards for its current stage of economic development, but the "inconvenient truth" is that they aren't adequate for public health. Here, seasonally, they aren't good for tourism either! The good news is that the Thai economy is maturing to the point that getting "cleaner" is not only feasible, it will actually be very cost effective for the country, even profitable!

Summing it up for now, all I am saying, UG, is that none of us should hide under a rock, and I wish that more of us were active in dealing withthe problem in a constructive way. I don't blame the Burmese. I don't blame the Laotians. I don't blame the Chinese. Yes, there is a larger regional as well as global picture to consider, but it gets down to this regardless of where you are: "The enemy," as the cartoon character Pogo used to say, is us." Not some other guy. [Pogo was for many years a very popular daily newspaper cartoon creation of a political satirist named Walt Kelly, an American.]

And to refer to yet another authority: My kitten, who is parked on my desk next to my computer with which he is inexplicably entranced, has just nodded in agreement! Actually, he is probably bored like Blinky Bill, but Blinky Bill has probably long ago gone to the fridge for another beer. I think my kitten wants a turn so he can play one of his on-line games.

Edited July 15, 2008 by Mapguy

[Ulysses G.]

It seems that you and I personally are not terribly bothered by heavy smoke. Maybe we should think more about the more than a few people who are affected by the polluted air. My daughter, for one, is. Not in a big way, but the number of respiratory attacks she suffers clearly increase during the awful season.

If I knew anyone well who was bothered badly by the smoky season - certainly a family member - I would probably be a lot more concerned than I am, but most of the complaints I "hear" are on the internet and many are exaggerated to the point that it makes me question the others. As for myself, I would hardly notice it (other than a few bad days), if it weren't for posts on Thai visa.

Of course, we want to make Chiang Mai the most pleasant place to live that we can, but, personally, I have no idea of what to do about the traditional forest burning because it takes place over such a large area in different countries. I am just glad that it isn't much worse.

I wish Mapguy well with solving the problem.

Edited July 16, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Mapguy]

It seems that you and I personally are not terribly bothered by heavy smoke. Maybe we should think more about the more than a few people who are affected by the polluted air. My daughter, for one, is. Not in a big way, but the number of respiratory attacks she suffers clearly increase during the awful season.

If I knew anyone well who was bothered badly by the smoky season - certainly a family member - I would probably be a lot more concerned than I am, but most of the complaints I "hear" are on the internet and many are exaggerated to the point that it makes me question the others. As for myself, I would hardly notice it (other than a few bad days), if it weren't for posts on Thai visa.

Of course, we want to make Chiang Mai the most pleasant place to live that we can, but, personally, I have no idea of what to do about the traditional forest burning because it takes place over such a large area in different countries. I am just glad that it isn't much worse.

I wish Mapguy well with solving the problem.

Well, I sure as heck am not going to solve the problem! But we can help solve it. A basic step not requiring a great committment is talking it up, not flapping around like some sort of "Chicken Little," but intelligently and persistently. Another basic step is to take small scale individual action. That has been discussed in this forum to quite some extent. Yes, that sort of thing can actually pay off, not just in reducing one'sown personal impact on the problem but also in setting an example for people "in the neighborhood." Of course, there are other more active steps that can be taken through attending and speaking at public meetings, contacting local officials, and so one. Group action can be taken. There are active groups in Chiang Mai and in Thailand. These have been noted from time to time on this forum.

More specifically in relation to UG's concern about regional burning in SE Asia, there is indeed official awareness of this problem --- as well as the larger "Asian Brown Cloud." In Northern Thailand, there are diffeerent causes besides natural occurence (e.g., lightning strikes), such as local neighborhood trash burning that goes on all year round and burning to clear new land for agricultural use as well (in Central and Northern Thailand) as burning off rice straw. This is not done throughout Thailand, and the reason for it isn't "cultural." It has most to do, apparently, with intensive land use and false economies re fertilization of the land. Apparently, there is a problem with ag education at some levels. Old Thai textbooks indicate burning is a desirable practice, and the Ministry of Ed hasn't changed these! So, among other things, there is an educational process that needs to be improved that not only corrects textbooks but also demonstrates the false economies of burning as well as highlighting its serious public health problems --- and adverse effect on tourism.

This "fire" isn't going to be put out by next week, but it will never be extinguished until it is recognized, not ignored, more people are educated to it, and action taken at different levels from individual to international to douse the flames.

[jomama]

This "fire" isn't going to be put out by next week, but it will never be extinguished until it is recognized, not ignored, more people are educated to it, and action taken at different levels from individual to international to douse the flames.

...and not let one's obsession with a tourist-related business "cloud" one's judgment or obscure the reality

[Ulysses G.]

...and not let one's obsessions "cloud" one's judgment and obscure reality.

[scotbeve]

This "fire" isn't going to be put out by next week, but it will never be extinguished until it is recognized, not ignored, more people are educated to it, and action taken at different levels from individual to international to douse the flames.

...and not let one's obsession with a tourist-related business "cloud" one's judgment or obscure the reality

Sounds like you got it right in one jomama!!!!

[Ulysses G.]

My experience is similar to yours Gonzo, but my main complaint this year and last is that I feel the "High Season" in Chiang Mai has shrunk drastically due to our reputation for "pollution/bad air" around the end of February. Tourists are avoiding coming here as soon as it heats up.

Unfortunately it is not just a reputation, but a reality. The internet is full of first hand stories, facts and photos. I'm afraid Chiang Mai and its people are unable to make any changes to the better, as cause and effect are about as alien concepts, as following the law requiring one to wear a helmet whilst driving a motor cycle.

Until these kind of things can't be found on the internet with a 30 sec. search, people will stay away, business and life's will suffer, but who cares….. the giant theme parks and hotels are about be filled with Chinese tourists who don't fuss to much about the grey sky!

"When is the best time to visit Chiang Mai? The answer would depend on the state of your respiratory system - but I'd day avoid March if possible!"

http://www.earthoria.com/air-pollution-lev...mai-rising.html

"Last weekend there were fires everywhere. Whole mountain ranges were alight. In the city there were many ' little' fires like the one on the picture. I've tried to find out the reason for burning. I don't really understand the reasoning."

http://www.mythailanddiary.com/743/air-pol...-in-chiang-mai/

Be there no mistake, but the burning in Chiang Mai and the north has been just as bad as last year, we have just had unusual amount of rain, spread over all months since December. Just wait for next year, and it might be "business" as usual.

Another one of these massively stupid posts, confusing undocumented Internet postings with reality. Since a lot of people are surely expecting me to post some statistics ("reality") to counter this, I might as well post once again my graph of pollution in Chiang Mai compared to some other popular "farang areas" in Thailand:

As can easily be seen, Chiang Mai does have a serious pollution problem, compared to these other areas, during the month of March. For the rest of the year, it is comparatively equal or (during May-November) much better than the other three. BTW, even during March it is no way the most polluted place in Thailand.

(The raw data, covering the years 2000-2008, comes from the Pollution Control department website http://www.pcd.go.th/AirQuality/Regional/Q...fm?task=default and has been compiled and analysed by me.)

I can't help but wonder what is driving people to post these false rumours. They obviously only serve to cause problems for the people of Chiang Mai.

/ Priceless

Some Priceless Facts!

[papajohn]

This "fire" isn't going to be put out by next week, but it will never be extinguished until it is recognized, not ignored, more people are educated to it, and action taken at different levels from individual to international to douse the flames.

...and not let one's obsession with a tourist-related business "cloud" one's judgment or obscure the reality

Sounds like you got it right in one jomama!!!!

Sawadee Kup, my fellow CMers. I will not come down on either side of this discussion. I think you know I am not a fence sitter. I feel both UG and Mapguy give strong and informative points of view on this subject and I thank you both. We all learn from a fair exchange of info. We who have decided or chose to

make CM our home have a vested interest to enjoy the things that help us qualify that decision.

Every place on earth has its good and bad points.

I visited numerous places to spend my " golden" years. CM was the best (5 visits). #1 is the local people, the greatest without question. You all know the rest that makes CM so livable. Now to the main point in contention. " Air Quality" as "they" say !

I will say the "Air Quality" in CM is no worse than any other city in the world. Yes, in the spring of 2007 I was surprised by the smell of smoke in the air, it did not affect my breathing, just lucky I guess, 2008 was

a different story. Why? I ask, answer new Mayor of CM. She invoked new burning regulations that reversed the trend of outdoor and field burning.

Lets give credit and support to this mayor who is going against the "old school thinking" in this province. She is progressive and working hard to

make CM a more livable city for us and the visitors.

Mapguy you are right about the traffic cops and the seamstress wearing nose masks. The black smoke at street level from the tuks,sangtauws and 2 stroke bikes around the moat is incredible. The carbon emmisions alone are a big factor in the monitoring of air quality, An emmision control policy would make a major improvement on the problem. Of course this is a costly program to the people and will take time to

impliment. We just have to look at how many are

still riding without helmets Sorry to bore, to much free time tonight. Chok Dee

[Mapguy]

This "fire" isn't going to be put out by next week, but it will never be extinguished until it is recognized, not ignored, more people are educated to it, and action taken at different levels from individual to international to douse the flames.

...and not let one's obsession with a tourist-related business "cloud" one's judgment or obscure the reality

Sounds like you got it right in one jomama!!!!

Sawadee Kup, my fellow CMers. I will not come down on either side of this discussion. I think you know I am not a fence sitter. I feel both UG and Mapguy give strong and informative points of view on this subject and I thank you both. We all learn from a fair exchange of info. We who have decided or chose to

make CM our home have a vested interest to enjoy the things that help us qualify that decision.

Every place on earth has its good and bad points.

I visited numerous places to spend my " golden" years. CM was the best (5 visits). #1 is the local people, the greatest without question. You all know the rest that makes CM so livable. Now to the main point in contention. " Air Quality" as "they" say !

I will say the "Air Quality" in CM is no worse than any other city in the world. Yes, in the spring of 2007 I was surprised by the smell of smoke in the air, it did not affect my breathing, just lucky I guess, 2008 was

a different story. Why? I ask, answer new Mayor of CM. She invoked new burning regulations that reversed the trend of outdoor and field burning.

Lets give credit and support to this mayor who is going against the "old school thinking" in this province. She is progressive and working hard to

make CM a more livable city for us and the visitors.

Mapguy you are right about the traffic cops and the seamstress wearing nose masks. The black smoke at street level from the tuks,sangtauws and 2 stroke bikes around the moat is incredible. The carbon emmisions alone are a big factor in the monitoring of air quality, An emmision control policy would make a major improvement on the problem. Of course this is a costly program to the people and will take time to

impliment. We just have to look at how many are

still riding without helmets Sorry to bore, to much free time tonight. Chok Dee

Well, basically I think we are all on the same side and feeling frustrated a lot of the time.

The internet will of course bring you a variety of claims and observations, some well-founded (like one blog above that talks briefly about WHO standards) and some simply alarmist. I am as thoroughly annoyed by the alarmists as UG is. I don't think it is very smart to plan a trip to Chiang Mai in late February - early April, but otherwise what a delightful place! Pollution? Well, motor vehicle traffic is noxious in any town, but check out the statistics for the last six weeks or so: Go to http://www.pcd.go.th/AirQuality/Regional/Default.cfm and draw some graphs for yourself. Rainy season?! That's no real bother; most of the day it is delightful. Or take the balmy evenings. Wednesday evening was absolutely gorgeous. It is sad the place isn't much busier now (July) with tourists now than it is.

The comment above to support the mayor is well-founded. She is swimming upstrean, as they say. She has limited authority and the staff and resources available to her are quite limited. Still, she is positive and also can help influence broader authority. No other municipality within shouting range has any serious resources to monitor, ameliorate pollution or enforce existing regulations, but the local headmen can be encouraged regarding local education and enforcement. They do receive some guidance, educational and publicity material from the province. Often effective enforcement is really moral suasion within the community.

Provincial governors seem to be moved around in a perpetual game of political musical chairs. It is my understanding, generally, that recent governors (and deputy governors) have been minimally interested and active in addressing pollution issues seriously, but some steps are being taken. There is a provincial environmental office with some knowledgeable people. Again, however, action is limited by staff and resources available.

Due to the nature of governmental organization in Thailand, the national government has the real power and resources. As recognized by the WHO, such resources are again limited, as they are in all economically developing countries where more lenient "safe" interim pollution standards are suggested. An example is the PM<10 standard. But no one has said that such standards are really acceptable for good public health.

What about here and now in Chiang Mai?

1. Personal steps not to pollute (buzz phrase: "Reduce your personal carbon footprint!") ;

2. Information and friendly encouragement of neighborhood action;

3. Active support for educational and enforcement steps by local officials;

4. Report fires; don't just close the windows and turn on the air con (Governmental agencies actually count phone calls to measure public concern!);

5. Support (and join) local organizations, such as:

* UDIF (Urban Development Institute Foundation) in Chiang Mai, which focused on many factors to make Chiang Mai a sustainable place to live healthily and happily: http://www.udif.or.th/indexE.htm

* International Citizens of Chiang Mai: [email protected]

* Chiang Mai Friends Group: [email protected]

Along this route you will meet some interesting, some very intelligent and several very informed people from fourth-generation Chiang Mai citizens to recent expatriate residents. Expatriates are more than welcome to join in.