Thai Guys Make Bangkok Liveable

[bangsecks]

This town's smoky, loud, wet and hot and it has some of the longest red lights in the world. The green lights seem never to last as long somehow, especially when you can't proceed because there's a bus blocking the intersection the entire time the light's green. There's a lot more to complain about in Bangkok, but there's a lot of good here too. It really is a great city, in several ways, but one of the best features of course is the stupefying multitude of hot, young, gay/bi Thai men. Svelte and smooth, olive-skinned with the most endearing facial features, Thai guys not only put the angel in the 'City of Angeles' but many of them really like us Westerners. Not quite sure why yet.

I've not been here long, and I've not really been with many men in my life, don't really identify as gay, but I like men as well as women. Since I've been in Thailand this time I've tended towards men exclusively and seem to be noticing for the first time how beautiful Thai men are. I am starting to want to stay here full time, just to be around these guys and maybe for once have a long term relationship. It really has me feeling happy and excited just imagining it. The thing is that, as before stated, there are some drawbacks to settling here. Not yet stated is the most troubling and severe, for me, and that's the question of employment.

I don't have any great skill or fancy degree that could open a cozy office job up for me and I'm not wealthy. I really want to stay here because it is a great city for many reasons, Thai men being the biggest part of those reasons. Lacking in any credential or qualification of course means that I will have to (gulp) teach English (sweat), and that's not something I'm too eager to do. But I know I could be really happy here, even living a butterfly life for a while if not getting serious with some nice poochai khun Thai.

So, there's the hard luck story, want to stay for the love, it would be a cruelty to miss out on this Thai love, but the only racket that I can make here is as a fake English teacher. I shouldn't have to explain why I don't want to do this for anyone that's spent any amount of time here, so my question: anyone got any ideas about some jobs a youngish (25) Falang with no white collar skills can do here in Krung Thep other than teach English?

Any ideas whatsoever would be a great help to this first time poster.

Thank you.

[JeffCA]

I suspect if anyone holds the magic answer that they charge for it to support their continuing desire to live in LOS

Edited March 28, 2008 by JeffCA

[PeaceBlondie]

To our new member, welcome to Thai Visa and the Gay in Thailand forum. Actually, your language skills come off very well in your opening post. However, if you lack a degree and the desire to teach English to Thais for a living, you may not last one month in the business. And, without a stated skill that is open to farang, you do not seem to be employable. I suggest you return home, find Asian lovers there, get better jobs and education, and go from there. Good luck.

[kingwilly]

but many of them really like us Westerners. Not quite sure why yet.

$$$

[pauleddy]

There is not a lot to do apart from teach English or (sometimes) other subjects. Most non-teachers tend to work in IT or in banks, and have often been sent as expats from HQ. Of course, some people start small businesses or own bars, but you need to have a Thai business partner generally. The Thai gvment has a long list of jobs which you are not allowed to do AT ALL, because those jobs are for Thais. You cannot be a bus driver, for instance.

To teach English you really need at least a 4 week TEFL course, preferably a CELTA or TESOL and not a home-grown course. There are both types here. Most will cost 1000usd or more. A good course makes you work very hard, and you get to practise live teaching. Many people think that they can teach English (simply because they come from the UK or USA), but it's a fallacy. You need to understand some grammar and teaching techniques, for a start. It is true that a small number of people get jobs with no training, but this happens less than before. Of course, you may get conversation classes, but you need to be able to explain or correct stuff the student is using/saying. Generally, the jobs for unqualified teachers or inexperienced folk will pay less.

Good teaching jobs often want a degree, at least a BA or BSc, along with a TEFL course.

There is no magical answer. Many people come here and fall in love with it, but it can be hot, gritty and soul-destroying once the initial sex-and-party buzz wears off. Unless you have money, you need to get established fast with a job, condo etc. All of the bar and sauna life costs money, and many guys will expect to be bought a drink even if they are not money boys. If you do find a steady Thai BF, you will normally be expected to "pay more" towards living costs, going out etc simply because you are the foreigner. This is a general rule of thumb and is part of the culture. Of course, if your BF is a doctor or has a good job, you may pay 50-50.

If you want to stay here, make sure that you check the visa situation too. People without jobs have a tougher time with all the visa renewal rules---and you may not be able to stay here 'permanently' just by flying out and in. The rules have changed, but I'm no expert.

I hate to put dampers on, but I agree with PB. If you are young and have no money, no degree, no TEFL and no experience, I don't know how you could last here. People asking your type of question usually get told to go back to Idaho, get a college degree, do a TEFL outside of Thailand, save some money, get some life experience and then come back in five years. All of the boys will still be here then, with some new ones too!

PEddy

[Ijustwannateach]

To summarise: you shouldn't come. In the teacher's forum, we've been recommending people don't come to teach in Thailand even if they are well-qualified and experienced- and in your case, well... I'd really, really recommend against it. Most other reasons that foreigners find jobs here are white-collar. For the obvious reasons, Thailand doesn't need many foreign blue-collar talents.

"S"

[Jingthing]

What is it about Thailand that does this to people?

[JonnieB]

...don't really identify as gay, but I like men as well as women. Since I've been in Thailand this time I've tended towards men exclusively and seem to be noticing for the first time how beautiful Thai men are...Got some news for ya honey, if your sucking haam and/or taking it up the toot, you're gay dear...so stop denying it!

I am starting to want to stay here full time, just to be around these guys and maybe for once have a long term relationship. It really has me feeling happy and excited just imagining it. More proof, as if any was needed, that your a queer! May I also ask if your favorite movie is The Wonderful Wizard of Oz...that's what cinched it for me.

But I know I could be really happy here, even living a butterfly life for a while if not getting serious with some nice poochai khun Thai. Please again refer to my comments above. However, one problem presents itself. You were asking earlier why so many Thai guys liked us Westerners, well it has allot to do with the amount of that folding stuff many of us have. Don't know how much action English teachers get, as they usually don't have much of it.

Best advice is to forget about living in Thailand (or anywhere for that matter without any markatable employment skills or capital enough to start your own business or retire). Go back to where ever it is you come/came from and work there. Wages and bennies are much better in the West. Try to find something that is flexible in terms of when you work or has long vacation periods like teaching. Save your money and visit Thailand as often as you can. You will have some of that stuff that makes Westerns attractive to Thai guys and therefore, you will have a good time.

Cheers and chook dee krap!

[Ijustwannateach]

JonnieB, English teachers do ok- not least because they/we are often, um, a trifle younger than many of the tourist clan- there are more reasons than money why certain Thai guys (or guys anywhere) might be interested in certain foreigners....

And the money's not as bad as everyone thinks, since we can save on rent by living in cardboard boxes.

[Jingthing]

Thavisa.com: tough love central

BTW, by the time you are retirement age, Thailand is going to be so different it is doubtful you would want to move here. Maybe find another dream?

Edited March 28, 2008 by Jingthing

[bangsecks]

Okay, I'll just forget it and go back to Idaho to sort potatoes. Thanks for all the advice about how hard teaching English is even though I said I don't want to teach English. I'll just try and hope to run into some hot Asians on the potato farm, but probably not very likely, but that doesn't matter becuase the West has better benefits and I can make money there. That's the only thing that matters, right? Okay, okay, if it makes YOU feel better, I'm gay, alright. Thanks for the input.

[Jingthing]

Okay, I'll just forget it and go back to Idaho to sort potatoes. Thanks for all the advice about how hard teaching English is even though I said I don't want to teach English. I'll just try and hope to run into some hot Asians on the potato farm, but probably not very likely, but that doesn't matter becuase the West has better benefits and I can make money there. That's the only thing that matters, right? Okay, okay, if it makes YOU feel better, I'm gay, alright. Thanks for the input.

If you really are a budding rice queen, why not move to a place in the US with lots of Asians? If you need Thais, there is Thaitown in LA. I found in my 30s and 40s in the US that I wasn't old enough for most of the off the boat Asian boys, and not young enough for the assimilated gym Asian boys, so you might strike while the irony is hot.

[pauleddy]

I understand that you don't wanna teach English. I was just trying to point out that unless you are realistic about life here and/or you are rich....you won't last more than 1-3 months.

Many people (gay or not) have serious misconceptions about this place. Some think that they will live like DiCaprio on a beach, or that they will live in a Bangkok penthouse and have nice boys visit them all day.

There is not a lot to do work-wise, which is why so many people are English teachers or business guys sent here for 1 year by the bank HQ. If you can teach a PADI diving course, you may find a job in the south, but those are rare.

This society is not a very easy or sympathetic one to live in if you have to struggle. Although many people are nice as individuals, most people are poor and expect you to be richer than they are. It is difficult to live here on a slim budget. You can have fun, but it all needs money. People who struggle without money or a job don't last here. If you get sick here, there are no free clinics. You also need to be aware of the visa thing. Without a proper job or a retirement visa, you have to fly out to renew the visa after a short period.

[Kaojai]

Okay, I'll just forget it and go back to Idaho to sort potatoes. Thanks for all the advice about how hard teaching English is even though I said I don't want to teach English. I'll just try and hope to run into some hot Asians on the potato farm, but probably not very likely, but that doesn't matter becuase the West has better benefits and I can make money there. That's the only thing that matters, right? Okay, okay, if it makes YOU feel better, I'm gay, alright. Thanks for the input.

If you really are a budding rice queen, why not move to a place in the US with lots of Asians? If you need Thais, there is Thaitown in LA. I found in my 30s and 40s in the US that I wasn't old enough for most of the off the boat Asian boys, and not young enough for the assimilated gym Asian boys, so you might strike while the irony is hot.

Or, you could just wait until you're old and disagreeable, then come to Thailand and spend all your time writing thousands of messages on Thai forums rather than getting to know any local people or enjoying the country you've settled in. That seems to be a popular option.

[Jingthing]

Okay, I'll just forget it and go back to Idaho to sort potatoes. Thanks for all the advice about how hard teaching English is even though I said I don't want to teach English. I'll just try and hope to run into some hot Asians on the potato farm, but probably not very likely, but that doesn't matter becuase the West has better benefits and I can make money there. That's the only thing that matters, right? Okay, okay, if it makes YOU feel better, I'm gay, alright. Thanks for the input.

If you really are a budding rice queen, why not move to a place in the US with lots of Asians? If you need Thais, there is Thaitown in LA. I found in my 30s and 40s in the US that I wasn't old enough for most of the off the boat Asian boys, and not young enough for the assimilated gym Asian boys, so you might strike while the irony is hot.

Or, you could just wait until you're old and disagreeable, then come to Thailand and spend all your time writing thousands of messages on Thai forums rather than getting to know any local people or enjoying the country you've settled in. That seems to be a popular option.

Sure, touche, for now it is. That is my point, for this person, Thailand is just not viable, and its hard to imagine Thailand 30-40 years from now. It doesn't really seem to getting better, does it to you?

Edited March 30, 2008 by Jingthing

[Ijustwannateach]

I don't know what "better" means to you, Jingthing- to me it means that gays are more open and accepted by themselves as well as mainstream society, and that they have more choices. From my point of view, these things actually are happening, slowly but surely.

"S"

[Jingthing]

I don't know what "better" means to you, Jingthing- to me it means that gays are more open and accepted by themselves as well as mainstream society, and that they have more choices. From my point of view, these things actually are happening, slowly but surely.

"S"

I was talking more about overall Thai society in these areas:

pollution

excessive materialism

crime

disease and health care

democracy

inflation

corruption

soaking farangs at every turn

I admit living in Pattaya can mean your rose colored glasses face continuous assaults.

Don't bother telling me to go home. As I am from the US, that isn't a better option.

Edited March 30, 2008 by Jingthing

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, in respect of those things, I'm hardly going to defend either the U.S. or Pattaya- but you might find that mileage can vary here, if you're willing to get out & about a bit....

[popshirt]

Or, you could just wait until you're old and disagreeable, then come to Thailand and spend all your time writing thousands of messages on Thai forums rather than getting to know any local people or enjoying the country you've settled in. That seems to be a popular option.

Kaojai you have hit the nail on the head. Absolutely. And this is only my 500th post!

I'm too busy LIVING to quibble about the Thais and Thailand. I love my life here, going on 4 years now and gets better all the time.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thirty thousand posts later (this is not my only forum), and I spent lots of these five years running around the world, teaching English and math, writing silly books, enjoying the country I settled in. As for getting to know local people - thousands of them, mostly straight Thais, and some incredible gay Thais. Still - Kaojai knows, as his name implies, even if he posted in a disagreeable fashion.

///ADDED: Reviewing Kaojai's posts, he is retired (old), sometimes disagreeable, living in Pattaya, American. Actually, we may have a lot in common. Kaojai, are you gay? Not that we normally ask, but Thailand is not one of those don't ask, don't tell countries, and this being the gay forum, you might want to tell us something about yourself. It is okay if you are not gay; as the folks on Seinfeld often said, there is nothing wrong with that.

[farang prince]

Okay, I'll just forget it and go back to Idaho to sort potatoes. Thanks for all the advice about how hard teaching English is even though I said I don't want to teach English. I'll just try and hope to run into some hot Asians on the potato farm, but probably not very likely, but that doesn't matter becuase the West has better benefits and I can make money there. That's the only thing that matters, right? Okay, okay, if it makes YOU feel better, I'm gay, alright. Thanks for the input.

Bangsecks, don't get overwhelmed by some of the hard-edged posts that have appeared on this thread...there is more than a grain of truth in most of them. Since I gather that you are a young man, I would suggest that you continue to pursue your dream...but do it in a responsible manner. I would recommend that you live in the USA and make as much money as you can. Then come to Thailand for some long-stay vacations. This will give you a better idea of what Thailand is all about. I wouldn't just center my attention on Bangkok. Go to Chiang Mai, Phuket and yes, that den of iniquity, Pattaya. I would also recommend that you travel to the Philippines and meet some cute Filipino boys (they speak English and are just as cute and sexy as Thai boys) and you might also go to Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia, which has a pretty active gay scene. In other words, you are young enough to do some exploration. A word of caution: don't make rash decisions while all the blood from your brain is in the tip of your cock.

[Jingthing]

Each year, the USA becomes more and more like the third world anyway. It wouldn't surprise me if 30-40 years from now planeloads of gay Thais will be jetting to Atlanta for the affordable go go bars.

[orchis]

It s possible to find employment here outside teaching.

I did. For the last 13 years. Business owner now.

If you want to come live here I hope all the naysayers here will make you even more determined.

It's a big country. You're welcome here.

[Jingthing]

It s possible to find employment here outside teaching.

I did. For the last 13 years. Business owner now.

If you want to come live here I hope all the naysayers here will make you even more determined.

It's a big country. You're welcome here.

Oh come on. What special skills (or money) do you think this young man brings to the table here? He may well be welcome by the local noodle vendor and some special Thai boy who cares more about youth than wallet power, but he is not welcome here by Thai immigration. Why lie to him? That isn't helpful to him to encourage him to follow a path of pain.

Edited March 31, 2008 by Jingthing

[bangsecks]

I should say that I've been coming here for a few years already, spent about nine months cumulatively in Thailand, and so I am familiar with some of the standard shucks listed so far. I've actually taught English here before and was a miserable failure; it's that I've only been here for a short while this time and hel_l bent on Thai cock for the first time.

I find it a little strange that some on here seem to make it out to be a really big heartbreak waiting to happen and it'll all be wasted time when I find out the guy I like only wants my money or I spend a few months looking for work or to integrate myself into Thai culture to no success; trying to keep Thailand all for yourself? Elite club or something?

My main question is about alternatives to English teaching, I've never really heard of any save for once when someone recommended I try getting a job in a travel agency. I also have Filipino friends that work in hotels somehow. I know a Japanese guy that works in a hotel as well. Why can't a Falang get in on those low level jobs? The Jap has the job 'cause he speaks Japanese for the Japanese businessmen, and the Filipinos, what, get paid less than the Thais and can speak English well and they look Thai so no problem?

I don't care about the pay, just enough to live, and contrary to what many of you believe, there are Thai boys out there that don't want money. There are rich Thais and horny Thais who aren't doing too bad so that everything isn't about money with them. So I really don't need much money, as long as those Thais like me, just something that will let me stay cost neutral at least, if not save a little for visa runs.

But the message I'm getting here is that it isn't very likely that I'd find something in Bangkok or elsewhere if not English teaching, and that's consistent with what I've heard elsewhere. I just thought I might get a little sympathy and maybe some creative ideas from the old timers here as you all might better understand the special nature of my longing for Thailand.

Maybe I'll just fold and teach English again, maybe I'll try private lessons and work much less so less stress and greif. Maybe I will just go back to the States and do my money thing there and then come back for the winters. Probably what I'll do. Oh well, thanks for your time.

[Jingthing]

Bang, you have my sympathy, and if you had tried this maybe 10 years ago, it would have been much easier to play the visa run game and stay here for years. But there have been many crackdowns since then, its almost as if they have been targetting people like you with the message of: you are welcome as a short term tourist and then GO HOME! I just don't see a way for you to do this legally. I am sure you are correct as you are young you can find plenty of Thais who don't care about the money. However, for you, I see your problem is Thai immigration. Perhaps someone can suggest a specific angle for you, but I know of none.

Edited March 31, 2008 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

bangsnecks, this is not so much about being gay or bi. Mostly, it is about finding a job other than English teaching, so I will now close this thread and invite you to start a new thread (without any comments about cock) in the forum on ThaiVisa for Jobs, economy, banking, business, etc.