Registering A Baby At The British Embassy

[brizzle]

I am currently in Bangkok in the process of obtaining my babies Thai and British passports.

Yesterday I went to the British Embassy to submit the application form. Since registering the birth is not a requirement of the application process and is also very expensive I chose not to on this occasion. However the expense does not come into the equation if I thought my baby daughter would be disadvantaged by not being registered. I understand that if I chose to register her there would be a record of her birth in Britain and she would also be issued with a British style birth certificate and she could apply for a new one should it ever be lost. However can anyone please advise me of any future problems she might encounter if she is not registered? How does one get their national insurance number at attainable age in England for example?

I asked about some of the above at the embassy and was told that she might need proof of birth date for something like a life insurance policy-although I'm sure the Thai birth certificate with translation document should suffice. They also said that I might be asked for it when applying for her second passport in 5 years time...but I found this a bit odd as after all why should her second passport require anything different from her first? She is after all British by birth right.I appreciate that the paper work would be virtually eliminated for the second application but I get the feeling this was mentioned more for the passport offices benefit than mine.

To date the only answer from anyone I have received regarding any advantage of registration is a rather generalized and without any real substance "to avoid any confusion or problems later".

So please can any of you mums and dads or other wise folk give me some solid basis either from your own experience or others that you know to convince me that registration is a necessity for my child .Where are the real pitfalls of not registering and indeed if there are any major pitfalls why would the British Embassy not make registering compulsory?

Many thanks.

[torrenova]

I researched this last year after my daughter was born in Thailand (her mother is Thai). All the documentation save the form is the same as for a passport. I also questioned why I should pay the 10.5k fee or whatever rip off amount it was.

So I did a bit of thinking. The daft thing is that you need a birth certificate for a passport which is more secure than a birth certificate so why on earth, if you have a passport, would you ever need a birth certificate ? Well, to get my baby a passport I needed to obtain a long version of my birth certificate. Why the earth I do not know, just some dam_n beaurocratic bullshit. They must have a copy of my birth certificate from the time I applied for my first passport surely ?

I think the thing is that we are caught up between a paperwork and computer based system. I cannot see one reason why in say 10+ years you'll need any of this paperwork but then you'll probably be DNA tested at birth or scanned !

I see you also have a daughter so lets work through this. If she stays in Thailand all her life then she'll only need her Thai documentation. If she travels abroad then she will use her British passport as it is better than her Thai one. If she lives in the UK then she'll enter on her UK passport and have no visa issues. Her kids will have no issues wherever they are born as she is British.

Now my ex wife is Japanese and she has a National Insurance number. So do my other foreign friends and none of them has a UK birth certificate. You will have a translation which you used to get the passport. You will also have the passport itself or an updated one.

I'll admit that I haven't done either yet as I have no need at present but will do so in the next few months before I move to or start extended stays in Singapore so my family can visit. I don't know whether I will register the birth. Is it a benefit ? perhaps but I don't see where. The only benefit is that in years to come she will be able to get a UK birth certificate which says she was born in Thailand. She already has a Thai birth certificate which says she was born in Thailand. Don't believe this crap about renewing passports. Once issued they will just replace it when necessary. Surely now her Thai birth certificate and the translation are scanned on some computer system and thus render the UK one redundant.

I might shell out the cash or not but unless convinced otherwise, I'd rather just put it in her bank. Note that there is no time limit on registration so you can do it anytime, or she can or no-one can. I have yet to be convinced.

[marshall]

I am currently in Bangkok in the process of obtaining my babies Thai and British passports.

Yesterday I went to the British Embassy to submit the application form. Since registering the birth is not a requirement of the application process and is also very expensive I chose not to on this occasion. However the expense does not come into the equation if I thought my baby daughter would be disadvantaged by not being registered. I understand that if I chose to register her there would be a record of her birth in Britain and she would also be issued with a British style birth certificate and she could apply for a new one should it ever be lost. However can anyone please advise me of any future problems she might encounter if she is not registered? How does one get their national insurance number at attainable age in England for example?

I asked about some of the above at the embassy and was told that she might need proof of birth date for something like a life insurance policy-although I'm sure the Thai birth certificate with translation document should suffice. They also said that I might be asked for it when applying for her second passport in 5 years time...but I found this a bit odd as after all why should her second passport require anything different from her first? She is after all British by birth right.I appreciate that the paper work would be virtually eliminated for the second application but I get the feeling this was mentioned more for the passport offices benefit than mine.

To date the only answer from anyone I have received regarding any advantage of registration is a rather generalized and without any real substance "to avoid any confusion or problems later".

So please can any of you mums and dads or other wise folk give me some solid basis either from your own experience or others that you know to convince me that registration is a necessity for my child .Where are the real pitfalls of not registering and indeed if there are any major pitfalls why would the British Embassy not make registering compulsory?

Many thanks.

I would say its worth it, I have a little girl, who has two passports Thai and British and a British birth cert my reasons for doing this were.(1) If no birth lines then she cannot get a passport so by law she is not British.So when we go and visit family and friends back home we have to go through the visa process for her which as you know can be quite costly. (Correct me if my thinking is wrong) (2) Also information received is that you have to register the birth within a year.(3) My long term plans were never to remain in Thailand so my Daughter gets free education when we go back home. So I think it better to do than not to do, gives her more choices.

[apetley]

I would say its worth it, I have a little girl, who has two passports Thai and British and a British birth cert my reasons for doing this were.(1) If no birth lines then she cannot get a passport so by law she is not British.So when we go and visit family and friends back home we have to go through the visa process for her which as you know can be quite costly. (Correct me if my thinking is wrong) (2) Also information received is that you have to register the birth within a year.(3) My long term plans were never to remain in Thailand so my Daughter gets free education when we go back home. So I think it better to do than not to do, gives her more choices.

A British passport makes it alot easier to return to the UK, yes, but you do not need a British passport to be British, it's just further proof that you are.

[brizzle]

I would say its worth it, I have a little girl, who has two passports Thai and British and a British birth cert my reasons for doing this were.(1) If no birth lines then she cannot get a passport so by law she is not British.So when we go and visit family and friends back home we have to go through the visa process for her which as you know can be quite costly. (Correct me if my thinking is wrong) (2) Also information received is that you have to register the birth within a year.(3) My long term plans were never to remain in Thailand so my Daughter gets free education when we go back home. So I think it better to do than not to do, gives her more choices.

By law your child will be British by birth right.That is if you are British (with British birth certificate) then your child will acquire British nationality as soon as they are born. This is why the British Embassy does not insist that you register the birth in order for your child to obtain a British passport or British citizenship.I am not sure what you mean by" birth lines" but anyone who is British can obtain a British passport for their child without that child having a British birth certificate. What is important is that you prove you are British showing the original long version of your British birth certificate together with your babies’ Thai birth certificate and an official translated copy. As far as I am aware at present there is no time limit on registering a birth and I can do this at a later date. In fact this is what I intend doing if someone can convince me it is a worth while thing to do. I certainly do not intend to part with my hard earned cash without good reason...even the British embassy couldn’t come up with a convincing argument when I questioned them about this personally at the embassy. The reason given on their web site is also very generalized and without much substance or detail.

Here it is:-

Birth registration is not compulsory, but we recommend it. The advantages are that

• A British style birth certificate is available as proof of identity and proof of nationality.

• A record of the birth will afterwards be held at the General Register Office in the United Kingdom. In the future, copies can be obtained from the General Register Office.

Well we can see that they recommend it (well who wouldn’t at nearly 15,000 THB) and it is proof of identity (as is a Thai birth certificate) and Nationality (as is a British passport which your baby can attain anyway) and you can obtain a copy in the future if you lose it….but the important thing is why and when will my daughter require it? The only time I recall being asked for my birth certificate was for my very first passport (which my daughter has used her Thai birth certificate for) and right now to prove that I am British in order that my daughter can obtain her British citizenship and passport.

torrenova

It's nice to know that someone else has looked at this and come to the same conclusion as myself. However maybe we are wrong and there are some compelling reasons to register the birth....any more input anyone?

Edited March 28, 2008 by brizzle

[jstumbo]

seems like I remember "the scouser" talking about there being differences if you were married to your child's mother. Seems like I also remember some time limits on things in other posts of his.

[Pushit]

I would say its worth it, I have a little girl, who has two passports Thai and British and a British birth cert my reasons for doing this were.(1) If no birth lines then she cannot get a passport so by law she is not British.So when we go and visit family and friends back home we have to go through the visa process for her which as you know can be quite costly. (Correct me if my thinking is wrong) (2) Also information received is that you have to register the birth within a year.(3) My long term plans were never to remain in Thailand so my Daughter gets free education when we go back home. So I think it better to do than not to do, gives her more choices.

By law your child will be British by birth right.That is if you are British (with British birth certificate) then your child will acquire British nationality as soon as they are born. This is why the British Embassy does not insist that you register the birth in order for your child to obtain a British passport or British citizenship.I am not sure what you mean by" birth lines" but anyone who is British can obtain a British passport for their child without that child having a British birth certificate. What is important is that you prove you are British showing the original long version of your British birth certificate together with your babies’ Thai birth certificate and an official translated copy. As far as I am aware at present there is no time limit on registering a birth and I can do this at a later date. In fact this is what I intend doing if someone can convince me it is a worth while thing to do. I certainly do not intend to part with my hard earned cash without good reason...even the British embassy couldn’t come up with a convincing argument when I questioned them about this personally at the embassy. The reason given on their web site is also very generalized and without much substance or detail.

Here it is:-

Birth registration is not compulsory, but we recommend it. The advantages are that

• A British style birth certificate is available as proof of identity and proof of nationality.

• A record of the birth will afterwards be held at the General Register Office in the United Kingdom. In the future, copies can be obtained from the General Register Office.

Well we can see that they recommend it (well who wouldn’t at nearly 15,000 THB) and it is proof of identity (as is a Thai birth certificate) and Nationality (as is a British passport which your baby can attain anyway) and you can obtain a copy in the future if you lose it….but the important thing is why and when will my daughter require it? The only time I recall being asked for my birth certificate was for my very first passport (which my daughter has used her Thai birth certificate for) and right now to prove that I am British in order that my daughter can obtain her British citizenship and passport.

torrenova

It's nice to know that someone else has looked at this and come to the same conclusion as myself. However maybe we are wrong and there are some compelling reasons to register the birth....any more input anyone?

To support your wifes' application for UK visa?

[Farma]

From a slightly different angle

I know a number of Brits who’ve said they wished their parents had obtained Oz citizenship when they were kids. These guys went to Oz as children with their parents. They later returned back to the UK with their parents.

The laws changed and now these guys have to jump through hoops to migrate to Oz. One has recently been refused a migrant visa despite spending nearly half his life growing up in Australia. He didn’t meet the criteria.

Recently the UK has mentioned possible changes to their immigration policy.

The opportunity is available now, but for how long, I’d recommend you spend that little bit now and secure your child's future options.

[bkk_mike]

As far as your child being British, that is covered by the fact that they've been issued the passport.

Relating to free schooling - any child legally settled in the UK is entitled to free schooling. (i.e. my stepdaughter was in primary in the UK while on ILR status, and got an NHS card, child benefit etc. all of which we stopped when we came to Bangkok, but as we visit the UK each year, her ILR status remains valid, so we could get them all again if we were to return to the UK.).

The requirement for the long birth certificate is that it states where your parents lived at the time of your birth. Just being British is NOT enough to pass British Nationality to children born outside of the UK. You need to have been born in the UK also and your parents needed to be legally resident. (hence the abbreviated birth certificate is somehow enough to get your own passport, but NOT enough to get your foreign-born child's passport).

(This is one area where being registered could help if you don't think the rules will change - i.e. Not with your child's nationality, but with her children getting British Nationality if they're also not born in the UK. That is supposedly easier with the registration).

Again, this would be if your child lives outside the UK and doesn't return to the UK while her children are dependants, etc.

The only other benefit may be if your family has members that you're not in contact with. i.e. If someone dies, the agencies that look for relatives that could inherit (1st cousin is as far as the UK will go), use the birth registrations, including from embassies abroad. Without the registration, they won't necessarily find your daughter. i.e. If you have a long-lost rich uncle, it might be worth doing it...

[brizzle]

As far as your child being British, that is covered by the fact that they've been issued the passport.

Relating to free schooling - any child legally settled in the UK is entitled to free schooling. (i.e. my stepdaughter was in primary in the UK while on ILR status, and got an NHS card, child benefit etc. all of which we stopped when we came to Bangkok, but as we visit the UK each year, her ILR status remains valid, so we could get them all again if we were to return to the UK.).

The requirement for the long birth certificate is that it states where your parents lived at the time of your birth. Just being British is NOT enough to pass British Nationality to children born outside of the UK. You need to have been born in the UK also and your parents needed to be legally resident. (hence the abbreviated birth certificate is somehow enough to get your own passport, but NOT enough to get your foreign-born child's passport).

(This is one area where being registered could help if you don't think the rules will change - i.e. Not with your child's nationality, but with her children getting British Nationality if they're also not born in the UK. That is supposedly easier with the registration).

Again, this would be if your child lives outside the UK and doesn't return to the UK while her children are dependants, etc.

The only other benefit may be if your family has members that you're not in contact with. i.e. If someone dies, the agencies that look for relatives that could inherit (1st cousin is as far as the UK will go), use the birth registrations, including from embassies abroad. Without the registration, they won't necessarily find your daughter. i.e. If you have a long-lost rich uncle, it might be worth doing it...

Thanks for your reply bkk_mike wth some good points. No long lost rich uncles I'm afraid so this is not an issue for me or my daughter although this is certainly something others might want to consider. I am also aware of the situation with regard to future grand children being born outside the UK to a non British born father and the fact that they are not entitled to automatic British nationality.You say it would supposedly be easier to attain British citizenship for my daughters children in this situation if she had the registration and British style birth certificate but the word "supposedly" with all due respect makes this statement sound like it is based on"hearsay" or what people simply think rather than anything of substance. Is there anything documented anywhere that can add any weight to this line of thought since this for me at least would be a very good reason on its own to cough up the money for her registration.Please don't take any offence to my questioning over this matter as none is meant, it's just that the very purpose of this post was because eveybody including the embassy is telling me that it is "supposedly" worth doing the registration but nobody (apart from your points above) is telling me the reasons why!

Edited March 29, 2008 by brizzle

[CharlieB]

As far as your child being British, that is covered by the fact that they've been issued the passport.

Relating to free schooling - any child legally settled in the UK is entitled to free schooling. (i.e. my stepdaughter was in primary in the UK while on ILR status, and got an NHS card, child benefit etc. all of which we stopped when we came to Bangkok, but as we visit the UK each year, her ILR status remains valid, so we could get them all again if we were to return to the UK.).

The requirement for the long birth certificate is that it states where your parents lived at the time of your birth. Just being British is NOT enough to pass British Nationality to children born outside of the UK. You need to have been born in the UK also and your parents needed to be legally resident. (hence the abbreviated birth certificate is somehow enough to get your own passport, but NOT enough to get your foreign-born child's passport).

(This is one area where being registered could help if you don't think the rules will change - i.e. Not with your child's nationality, but with her children getting British Nationality if they're also not born in the UK. That is supposedly easier with the registration).

Again, this would be if your child lives outside the UK and doesn't return to the UK while her children are dependants, etc.

The only other benefit may be if your family has members that you're not in contact with. i.e. If someone dies, the agencies that look for relatives that could inherit (1st cousin is as far as the UK will go), use the birth registrations, including from embassies abroad. Without the registration, they won't necessarily find your daughter. i.e. If you have a long-lost rich uncle, it might be worth doing it...

Thanks for your reply bkk_mike wth some good points. No long lost rich uncles I'm afraid so this is not an issue for me or my daughter although this is certainly something others might want to consider. I am also aware of the situation with regard to future grand children being born outside the UK to a non British born father and the fact that they are not entitled to automatic British nationality.You say it would supposedly be easier to attain British citizenship for my daughters children in this situation if she had the registration and British style birth certificate but the word "supposedly" with all due respect makes this statement sound like it is based on"hearsay" or what people simply think rather than anything of substance. Is there anything documented anywhere that can add any weight to this line of thought since this for me at least would be a very good reason on its own to cough up the money for her registration.Please don't take any offence to my questioning over this matter as none is meant, it's just that the very purpose of this post was because eveybody including the embassy is telling me that it is "supposedly" worth doing the registration but nobody (apart from your points above) is telling me the reasons why!

Reading through the thread it's apparent that you have pretty much decided not to get your children long birth certificates unless someone can come up with a specific reason, so don't do it. People have made suggestions as to why you might want to do it and you have replied that you don't see the point, which is fine. I doubt you will get any definite reasons forthcoming. People mainly do it for peace of mind. They know that their offspring has a UK birth certificate and their birth is registered in the UK and come a time in the future when their child has to produce a UK birth certificate for any reason, they will be able to. Who knows when you will be asked to produce a UK birth certificate for some reason or other, I certainly don't, but I'd rather my daughter was able to just produce her certificate that I had obtained for her and show it than have any kind of problems trying to prove that she is entitled to whatever it is she is applying for.

Personally, I'd rather my daughter have a birth certificate and passport in hand to prove her heritage than rely on UK government records. The other reason, as said before, you never know what crazy laws are going to be brought in by future governments. Until recently unmarried UK fathers couldn't pass on their nationality to their children, now they can. Immigration is a hot topic these days and it only takes a government passing a new law with some crazy anti-immigration slant to suddenly put anyone without a UK birth certificate at a disadvantage. I'd rather not chance any of this for the sake of £150.

[brizzle]

Reading through the thread it's apparent that you have pretty much decided not to get your children long birth certificates unless someone can come up with a specific reason, so don't do it. People have made suggestions as to why you might want to do it and you have replied that you don't see the point, which is fine. I doubt you will get any definite reasons forthcoming. People mainly do it for peace of mind. They know that their offspring has a UK birth certificate and their birth is registered in the UK and come a time in the future when their child has to produce a UK birth certificate for any reason, they will be able to. Who knows when you will be asked to produce a UK birth certificate for some reason or other, I certainly don't, but I'd rather my daughter was able to just produce her certificate that I had obtained for her and show it than have any kind of problems trying to prove that she is entitled to whatever it is she is applying for.

Personally, I'd rather my daughter have a birth certificate and passport in hand to prove her heritage than rely on UK government records. The other reason, as said before, you never know what crazy laws are going to be brought in by future governments. Until recently unmarried UK fathers couldn't pass on their nationality to their children, now they can. Immigration is a hot topic these days and it only takes a government passing a new law with some crazy anti-immigration slant to suddenly put anyone without a UK birth certificate at a disadvantage. I'd rather not chance any of this for the sake of £150.

No Charlie I have not decided one way or the other but I do not make decisions based on "no reason" and that is why I was asking peoples opinions and advice on this matter.Bkk_mikes suggestion about "next of kin" might well be good reason for some people but does not apply in my case. Knowing that quite a few people must have gone through the registration process I am asking them if they know something that I obviously don’t. I am not one of those people who do something merely because someone (in this case the B Emb) tell or advise me to without giving the reasons why.

You have in fact just raised another good point which is peoples fear of what the British government will or will not do in the future. Having to base one’s decisions on fear or worry alone is a sad situation but is an understandable one given the times that we live in .It’s difficult to imagine a Britain in the future with a two tier British citizen class system based on those that have or have not got a British birth certificate but as you say I guess anything is possible…..they may for example disadvantage any British citizen born outside of the UK irrespective of the "British style" of birth certificate (as the embassy puts it)…and there is nothing any of us could do about that. None of us can obtain total peace of mind in relation to such matters.

In reality of course I think as you say this would be a crazy thing to do as given the huge numbers involved in today’s Britain this would cause more problems than it solved with a large scale revolt on the Governments hands.

None the less what you seem to be saying is “you can only do what you can do” and provide what insurance you can for your child’s future and although like everyone else I hate having to base my decisions on future fears and worries rather than today’s facts you have a valid argument.

By the way the price has jumped somewhat since you applied for your registration. Here are the current prices for anyone else considering this option at this time:-

The fee for registration plus one certified copy of the entry is Baht 14,755. Additional copies of the entry can be obtained at a cost of Baht 3,835 per certificate.

Edited March 29, 2008 by brizzle

[DDP]

Reading through the thread it's apparent that you have pretty much decided not to get your children long birth certificates unless someone can come up with a specific reason, so don't do it. People have made suggestions as to why you might want to do it and you have replied that you don't see the point, which is fine. I doubt you will get any definite reasons forthcoming. People mainly do it for peace of mind. They know that their offspring has a UK birth certificate and their birth is registered in the UK and come a time in the future when their child has to produce a UK birth certificate for any reason, they will be able to. Who knows when you will be asked to produce a UK birth certificate for some reason or other, I certainly don't, but I'd rather my daughter was able to just produce her certificate that I had obtained for her and show it than have any kind of problems trying to prove that she is entitled to whatever it is she is applying for.

Personally, I'd rather my daughter have a birth certificate and passport in hand to prove her heritage than rely on UK government records. The other reason, as said before, you never know what crazy laws are going to be brought in by future governments. Until recently unmarried UK fathers couldn't pass on their nationality to their children, now they can. Immigration is a hot topic these days and it only takes a government passing a new law with some crazy anti-immigration slant to suddenly put anyone without a UK birth certificate at a disadvantage. I'd rather not chance any of this for the sake of £150.

No Charlie I have not decided one way or the other but I do not make decisions based on "no reason" and that is why I was asking peoples opinions and advice on this matter.Bkk_mikes suggestion about "next of kin" might well be good reason for some people but does not apply in my case. Knowing that quite a few people must have gone through the registration process I am asking them if they know something that I obviously don’t. I am not one of those people who do something merely because someone (in this case the B Emb) tell or advise me to without giving the reasons why.

You have in fact just raised another good point which is peoples fear of what the British government will or will not do in the future. Having to base one’s decisions on fear or worry alone is a sad situation but is an understandable one given the times that we live in .It’s difficult to imagine a Britain in the future with a two tier British citizen class system based on those that have or have not got a British birth certificate but as you say I guess anything is possible…..they may for example disadvantage any British citizen born outside of the UK irrespective of the "British style" of birth certificate (as the embassy puts it)…and there is nothing any of us could do about that. None of us can obtain total peace of mind in relation to such matters.

In reality of course I think as you say this would be a crazy thing to do as given the huge numbers involved in today’s Britain this would cause more problems than it solved with a large scale revolt on the Governments hands.

None the less what you seem to be saying is “you can only do what you can do” and provide what insurance you can for your child’s future and although like everyone else I hate having to base my decisions on future fears and worries rather than today’s facts you have a valid argument.

By the way the price has jumped somewhat since you applied for your registration. Here are the current prices for anyone else considering this option at this time:-

The fee for registration plus one certified copy of the entry is Baht 14,755. Additional copies of the entry can be obtained at a cost of Baht 3,835 per certificate.

[Foggy Bottom]

Dunno how pertinent this might be

A few months ago I had to renew my British driving licenses (I've got all classes from moped to HGV 1 & PSV through to just about anything that's got tracks instead of wheels, and keep them on the license "just in case" even though I've never needed any of them since demob 20+ years ago)

To renew them, I used Mum's UK address, but it was also my first photo-ID license at renewal. DVLC requested my birth certificate (original) to back up the application before they'd issue the new licenses.

Never had to do that before - even way back for my first provisional as a spotty teenager - so you never know what's going to change and catch you out.

Gaz

[knocker]

Biggest advantage as i see it is:

A few years down the line , my Thai/English daughter is in the UK, and maybe needs to do some legal paperwork of some sort that require the long version of her birth certificate, and maybe she cannot find her Thai one. She can go to Catherine House , or wherever it will be then and get an "original" copy, without the need to return to Thailand to get a Thai one and then a translation, etc, etc, just an idea, thats why I made the investment now.

Do it now whilst its relatively easy, in a few years you can bet the price will for sure go up and not down

[JuniorExPat]

I am currently in Bangkok in the process of obtaining my babies Thai and British passports.

Yesterday I went to the British Embassy <snip> other wise folk give me some solid basis either from your own experience or others that you know to convince me that registration is a necessity for my child .Where are the real pitfalls of not registering and indeed if there are any major pitfalls why would the British Embassy not make registering compulsory?

Many thanks.

Soooooo glad to see that I am not the only one confused by this one!

As far as I have been able to find out, the only advantage would be that if you were to pass away having made no will or if your will was contested then your child may find that the lack of registration placed them at a disadvantage . . . . but even that I find hard to believe if the birth certificate (Thai) and passports are all in order.

Having said all that, unless you are really struggling in the bank department, why take the risk for the relatively small amount of effort involved . . . ?

JxP

Edited March 30, 2008 by JuniorExPat

[torrenova]

Wow, there are a few doom mongerers on here.

Lose birth certificates ? Don't you people scan things these days and send them to various email accounts and keep them on CD/DVD ? Put originals in a house or bank safe ?

So how does my Japanese ex wife renew her driving license in the UK - Oh, I forgot she cannot because she doesn't have some UK birth certificate - what a load of rubbish.

What do you think the government does with the Thai brith certificate and the translation ? just look at them and issue the passport ? baloney. They are likely scanned onto the same system as the ones they print out when you want a copy of your birth certificate. Lose one lose them all.

Does anyone know if you can just register the birth when you get back to blighty ? I would have thought so and without some daft fee which includes a surcharge to pay for all those wanke_rs who end up in the nick for drugs charges in Thailand amongst other things.

In the end I will probably do it but I see no advantage other than some posters' worries that perhaps she'll not get free school milk in the UK or somethins similar !

[teacherofwoe]

I'm just about to register my daughter and get her passport. I was told by two different people at the consular that it can only be registered within 1 year, although there is nothing on the notes that come with the application form. The notes do state that the cost is B10,872 and additional copies of the entry are a further B4,248.

Now, as I read the reverse side of the notes it says that you can register your child as a British citizen at the Home Office http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk or ask for a form MN1

What it also says is that your children born overseas (i.e. in Thailand etc) gain British Nationality by decent. When they grow up and have kids of their own they won't be able to register them (your grandchildren) via the decent system if they too are born overseas. Oh no!

You can transmit British Nationality to children born overseas if you have 'other than decent' which is 1. born in U.K. 2 . naturalised in U.K. 3. (in some cases but not all) registered in the U.K.

I've had a quick look at the HO website and it's a real headache. I think every one who has had a kid should look further into this as it could affect our grandkids if we don't get it right now.

[colino]

One question

if my child is born in Thailand, and has a uk birth certificate, could i then claim child benefit for him,

any ideas , please

[brizzle]

I'm just about to register my daughter and get her passport. I was told by two different people at the consular that it can only be registered within 1 year, although there is nothing on the notes that come with the application form. The notes do state that the cost is B10,872 and additional copies of the entry are a further B4,248.

Now, as I read the reverse side of the notes it says that you can register your child as a British citizen at the Home Office http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk or ask for a form MN1

What it also says is that your children born overseas (i.e. in Thailand etc) gain British Nationality by decent. When they grow up and have kids of their own they won't be able to register them (your grandchildren) via the decent system if they too are born overseas. Oh no!

You can transmit British Nationality to children born overseas if you have 'other than decent' which is 1. born in U.K. 2 . naturalised in U.K. 3. (in some cases but not all) registered in the U.K.

I've had a quick look at the HO website and it's a real headache. I think every one who has had a kid should look further into this as it could affect our grandkids if we don't get it right now.

When did you get a copy of these notes?.They are to say the least somewhat outdated.I have a copy obtained just 6 days ago that clearly state the fee is 14,755 baht with additional copies costing 3835 baht.I was also told 6 days ago face to face over the counter at the British Embassy that there is no time limit on registration.I'm afraid what you have stated about the reverse side of the application is also misinformation and will cause confusion over this very important matter....and I quote from that reverse side :- "If you were born overseas to a British parent ,you aquired your British nationality "by descent" (unless your father was in the Crown service at the time of your birth). If your child is also born overseas then he/she will not automatically have a claim to British nationality but it may be possible to register him or her as a British Citizen with the Home Office.Please see the Home Office website http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk or as for form MN1 .If your intentions are to settle in the Uk you will be advised to apply in the UK".

The website you quote is only to be used if you were born overseas "by descent" ( the same as our children anotherwords) and may apply to some but not the majority of father's on this forum.What you say about your children also having children born outsde the Uk is very true for all of us but there is no mention of it on the current copy of BE notes.

By the way my notes also correspond to the imformation on the British Embassy website...you will find that yours...whenever and from whoever they were obtained do not.

[brizzle]

One question

if my child is born in Thailand, and has a uk birth certificate, could i then claim child benefit for him,

any ideas , please

Yes..if you are living in the UK.

[the scouser]

I'm just about to register my daughter and get her passport. I was told by two different people at the consular that it can only be registered within 1 year, although there is nothing on the notes that come with the application form. The notes do state that the cost is B10,872 and additional copies of the entry are a further B4,248.

Now, as I read the reverse side of the notes it says that you can register your child as a British citizen at the Home Office http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk or ask for a form MN1

What it also says is that your children born overseas (i.e. in Thailand etc) gain British Nationality by decent. When they grow up and have kids of their own they won't be able to register them (your grandchildren) via the decent system if they too are born overseas. Oh no!

You can transmit British Nationality to children born overseas if you have 'other than decent' which is 1. born in U.K. 2 . naturalised in U.K. 3. (in some cases but not all) registered in the U.K.

I've had a quick look at the HO website and it's a real headache. I think every one who has had a kid should look further into this as it could affect our grandkids if we don't get it right now.

Don't confuse registration of the child's birth and registration with the Home Office as a British citizen: they are two completely different things and a British birth certificate does not confer British nationality.

If your child has automatically acquired British citizenship there is no requirement to register their birth at the embassy in Bangkok: one may simply apply for a British passport. If the child has not automatically acquired British citizenship, then an application may be made to the Home Office to have him/her registered as a British citizen.

Scouse.

[PattayaParent]

What it also says is that your children born overseas (i.e. in Thailand etc) gain British Nationality by decent. When they grow up and have kids of their own they won't be able to register them (your grandchildren) via the decent system if they too are born overseas. Oh no!

You can transmit British Nationality to children born overseas if you have 'other than decent' which is 1. born in U.K. 2 . naturalised in U.K. 3. (in some cases but not all) registered in the U.K.

I've had a quick look at the HO website and it's a real headache. I think every one who has had a kid should look further into this as it could affect our grandkids if we don't get it right now.

So say my kid, a British citizen not born in UK, marries another British citizen not born in the UK and they have a kid, not born in the UK.

What nationality does the British government expect the child to have??? (assuming that neither parents have dual nationality)

[teacherofwoe]

I'm just about to register my daughter and get her passport. I was told by two different people at the consular that it can only be registered within 1 year, although there is nothing on the notes that come with the application form. The notes do state that the cost is B10,872 and additional copies of the entry are a further B4,248.

Now, as I read the reverse side of the notes it says that you can register your child as a British citizen at the Home Office http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk or ask for a form MN1

What it also says is that your children born overseas (i.e. in Thailand etc) gain British Nationality by decent. When they grow up and have kids of their own they won't be able to register them (your grandchildren) via the decent system if they too are born overseas. Oh no!

You can transmit British Nationality to children born overseas if you have 'other than decent' which is 1. born in U.K. 2 . naturalised in U.K. 3. (in some cases but not all) registered in the U.K.

I've had a quick look at the HO website and it's a real headache. I think every one who has had a kid should look further into this as it could affect our grandkids if we don't get it right now.

When did you get a copy of these notes?.They are to say the least somewhat outdated.I have a copy obtained just 6 days ago that clearly state the fee is 14,755 baht with additional copies costing 3835 baht.I was also told 6 days ago face to face over the counter at the British Embassy that there is no time limit on registration.I'm afraid what you have stated about the reverse side of the application is also misinformation and will cause confusion over this very important matter....and I quote from that reverse side :- "If you were born overseas to a British parent ,you aquired your British nationality "by descent" (unless your father was in the Crown service at the time of your birth). If your child is also born overseas then he/she will not automatically have a claim to British nationality but it may be possible to register him or her as a British Citizen with the Home Office.Please see the Home Office website http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk or as for form MN1 .If your intentions are to settle in the Uk you will be advised to apply in the UK".

The website you quote is only to be used if you were born overseas "by descent" ( the same as our children anotherwords) and may apply to some but not the majority of father's on this forum.What you say about your children also having children born outsde the Uk is very true for all of us but there is no mention of it on the current copy of BE notes.

By the way my notes also correspond to the imformation on the British Embassy website...you will find that yours...whenever and from whoever they were obtained do not.

I got my application form and notes attached two weeks ago from Chiang Mai consular. They may well be out of date; I really don't know. Where did you get yours?

My main concern is to to protect the future of my daughter. Some feel that the fees of registration outweigh the benefits. I do not. I will be registering my child with the embassy as well as Home Office. What I am still in the dark about is the "desent" clause which could affect my grandchildren if my daughter chooses to have children in Thailand for example. Surely there is a way for my daughter to become a British citizen "other than desent" like myself. Anyone got facts on this?

If my daughter (Thai & British) has a child in the U.K. to preserve the British aspect, what is the situation with the Thai government? Would my grandchildren loose their claim to a Thai heritage? More info is needed I think. Are there any grandparents out there who have had any experience???

[CharlieB]

I'm just about to register my daughter and get her passport. I was told by two different people at the consular that it can only be registered within 1 year, although there is nothing on the notes that come with the application form. The notes do state that the cost is B10,872 and additional copies of the entry are a further B4,248.

Now, as I read the reverse side of the notes it says that you can register your child as a British citizen at the Home Office http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk or ask for a form MN1

What it also says is that your children born overseas (i.e. in Thailand etc) gain British Nationality by decent. When they grow up and have kids of their own they won't be able to register them (your grandchildren) via the decent system if they too are born overseas. Oh no!

You can transmit British Nationality to children born overseas if you have 'other than decent' which is 1. born in U.K. 2 . naturalised in U.K. 3. (in some cases but not all) registered in the U.K.

I've had a quick look at the HO website and it's a real headache. I think every one who has had a kid should look further into this as it could affect our grandkids if we don't get it right now.

When did you get a copy of these notes?.They are to say the least somewhat outdated.I have a copy obtained just 6 days ago that clearly state the fee is 14,755 baht with additional copies costing 3835 baht.I was also told 6 days ago face to face over the counter at the British Embassy that there is no time limit on registration.I'm afraid what you have stated about the reverse side of the application is also misinformation and will cause confusion over this very important matter....and I quote from that reverse side :- "If you were born overseas to a British parent ,you aquired your British nationality "by descent" (unless your father was in the Crown service at the time of your birth). If your child is also born overseas then he/she will not automatically have a claim to British nationality but it may be possible to register him or her as a British Citizen with the Home Office.Please see the Home Office website http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk or as for form MN1 .If your intentions are to settle in the Uk you will be advised to apply in the UK".

The website you quote is only to be used if you were born overseas "by descent" ( the same as our children anotherwords) and may apply to some but not the majority of father's on this forum.What you say about your children also having children born outsde the Uk is very true for all of us but there is no mention of it on the current copy of BE notes.

By the way my notes also correspond to the imformation on the British Embassy website...you will find that yours...whenever and from whoever they were obtained do not.

I got my application form and notes attached two weeks ago from Chiang Mai consular. They may well be out of date; I really don't know. Where did you get yours?

My main concern is to to protect the future of my daughter. Some feel that the fees of registration outweigh the benefits. I do not. I will be registering my child with the embassy as well as Home Office. What I am still in the dark about is the "desent" clause which could affect my grandchildren if my daughter chooses to have children in Thailand for example. Surely there is a way for my daughter to become a British citizen "other than desent" like myself. Anyone got facts on this?

If my daughter (Thai & British) has a child in the U.K. to preserve the British aspect, what is the situation with the Thai government? Would my grandchildren loose their claim to a Thai heritage? More info is needed I think. Are there any grandparents out there who have had any experience???

British by Descent - You are born outside the UK and one of both of your parents are British other than by descent (Or as we will see below, by descent). You have been automatically granted the status of a British citizen through being descended from your parent(s) who is a British citizen. This is whereThis gives you full entitlement to all things that you should be as a child of a British Citizen, ie right of abode in the UK. You do not need to register this child with the home office, although you can register them with the local embassy and get a UK birth certificate (Note these two registrations are not the same).

Children of British Citizens by Descent:

Children of a person who is British by Descent, where the parents have been living in the UK for the 3 year period before application, can be granted British citizenship if they have not been out of the UK for over 270 days in those 3 years and if they were present in the UK on the date 3 years prior to the application. This is done by applying to the Home Office and gives the child British citizenship by descent. This should be done before the childs 18th birthday, or they will have to apply themselves as an adult.

Children of a person who is British by Descent, living outside of the UK, can be registered with the Home Office as British citizens, provided that this is done within 12 months of birth (I think this is the confusion some others are having about time limits) and the parent have lived in the UK for a continuous 3 year period any time before the birth and in that 3 years did not spend more than 270 days total outside the UK. This 12 month period can be waived in exceptional circumstances, which prevented the parents applying within the 12 months, such as the death of one of the parents before registration, divorce etc. This is done by applying to the Home Office and gives the child British citizenship by descent.

The other way to gain British citizenship would be through adoption or naturalisation. Naturalisation would mean living in the UK for 5 years before application.

Note, the above registration info is for children born to British mothers before June 2006 and both mothers and fathers after July 2006. Fathers for children born before July 2006 will have to apply to register their children with the Home Office.

Edited April 3, 2008 by CharlieB

[the scouser]

So say my kid, a British citizen not born in UK, marries another British citizen not born in the UK and they have a kid, not born in the UK.

What nationality does the British government expect the child to have??? (assuming that neither parents have dual nationality)

In the unlikely event that the child is stateless, the country in which he is born may issue him with a travel document to facilitate travel. Additionally, as described in Charlieb's post, in certain circumstances children of parent(s) who are British by descent may be registered as British citizens in certain circumstances.

I'd seek to clarify Charlieb's post in a couple of minor ways. Fathers of children born before 1 July 2006 do not necessarily need to apply for registration as a British citizen through the Home Office. Prior to this date married British fathers who were British "otherwise than by descent" could automatically transmit their nationality. Indeed, this could apply even if the marriage was subsequent to the child's birth. Also, a child cannot naturalise as a British citizen. A pre-condition of naturalisation is that the applicant is at least 18 years old.

Scouse.

[torrenova]

It would appear that the robbing bastards of a UK government have hiked the fee from the Bt10,872 to Bt14,755. The mind boggles at what poor excuse they could give to explain the 36% increase ?

http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/servlet/F...d=1068717512679

Why would anyone need a further copy of the entry ?

[CharlieB]

So say my kid, a British citizen not born in UK, marries another British citizen not born in the UK and they have a kid, not born in the UK.

What nationality does the British government expect the child to have??? (assuming that neither parents have dual nationality)

In the unlikely event that the child is stateless, the country in which he is born may issue him with a travel document to facilitate travel. Additionally, as described in Charlieb's post, in certain circumstances children of parent(s) who are British by descent may be registered as British citizens in certain circumstances.

I'd seek to clarify Charlieb's post in a couple of minor ways. Fathers of children born before 1 July 2006 do not necessarily need to apply for registration as a British citizen through the Home Office. Prior to this date married British fathers who were British "otherwise than by descent" could automatically transmit their nationality. Indeed, this could apply even if the marriage was subsequent to the child's birth. Also, a child cannot naturalise as a British citizen. A pre-condition of naturalisation is that the applicant is at least 18 years old.

Scouse.

Yeah, sorry, forgot that this applies to unmarried fathers before 2006 and if your nipper was born before July 2006 and you subsequently married the mother and have proof you are the father you can get the nipper, you legitimise the child and can therefore give them British citizenship.

On the naturalisation, I was just pointing out the other ways you can obtain British citizenship as asked by teacherofwoe. The period of residence in the UK needed for naturalisation also falls to 3 years if you are married to a UK citizen.

Edited April 3, 2008 by CharlieB

[CharlieB]

It would appear that the robbing bastards of a UK government have hiked the fee from the Bt10,872 to Bt14,755. The mind boggles at what poor excuse they could give to explain the 36% increase ?

http://www.britishembassy.gov.uk/servlet/F...d=1068717512679

Why would anyone need a further copy of the entry ?

I got a copy of my daughters Thai birth certificate in addition to the one my Mrs got. You might want to fund Gordon's gov't by getting an additional UK certificate copy for your Mrs!

[torrenova]

I haven't decided whether to fund his misguided spending by giving him the 15k nevermind another 4k or so for a copy. I mean, you get a £5 an hour monkey to fill out the form, give you one, then scan it to the database and then put a copy in the post to the UK. Someone tell me how that is supposed to work out at 15k or about £250 ?

I have just ordered my full birth certificate from Thailand and they dug that out, made a copy and sent it halfway around the world for a measly £25 or so.