Which Is Worse?

[realmadrid25]

a. A Thai person who makes 8000 baht a month attempts to over charge a farang who makes 80000 baht a month 20 baht.

or

b. A farang goes out and buys a suit case full of conterfeited softwaare and dvds, thus saving himself tens of thousands of baht.

I ask because, I have never met a farang who was not upset over being overcharged, but I have met many who have no problem with piracy. Are they simply hypocrites? Or is it OK to steal from companies but not individuals?

[altman]

a. A Thai person who makes 8000 baht a month attempts to over charge a farang who makes 80000 baht a month 20 baht.

or

b. A farang goes out and buys a suit case full of conterfeited softwaare and dvds, thus saving himself tens of thousands of baht.

I ask because, I have never met a farang who was not upset over being overcharged, but I have met many who have no problem with piracy. Are they simply hypocrites? Or is it OK to steal from companies but not individuals?

get real.

software/dvd manufacturers make gazillions of dollars off of their products. that i choose to cheat them out of a small percentage is just not that important.

while i occasionally have a fit of angst over being deprived of my own small fortune by some clever thai in a a small business transaction, i never give a second thought to bilking a global monopoly out of the profits they will use to compensate their CEO with a year end bonus.

not even worth discussing.

phhht

[Huey]

If the Thai person attempts to overcharge EVERYONE irregaurdless of their nationality then both A & B are equal. If the Thai in example a. Only over charges non-Thais then the racist element in that example would make it more distasteful in my opinion.

Like take Ancient City for example, it’s privately owned, and if a non Thai goes there its 300baht, but for Thai 100 baht, even if she pulls up in a 4 million baht BMW its still only 100 baht.

[siam-i-am]

a. A Thai person who makes 8000 baht a month attempts to over charge a farang who makes 80000 baht a month 20 baht.

or

b. A farang goes out and buys a suit case full of conterfeited softwaare and dvds, thus saving himself tens of thousands of baht.

I ask because, I have never met a farang who was not upset over being overcharged, but I have met many who have no problem with piracy. Are they simply hypocrites? Or is it OK to steal from companies but not individuals?

Yes and ...Yes

[elkangorito]

software/dvd manufacturers make gazillions of dollars off of their products. that i choose to cheat them out of a small percentage is just not that important.

Isn't 20 Baht a small percentage of 80 000 Baht?

I don't condone either but in the case of software, it is usually much easier to buy the "copies" rather than the original. On every occasion that I have been in a shop that sells software, I have asked for the genuine article. Most of the time the response is "Mai mee, Kup".

[howtoescape]

Realmadrid if you find a farang who likes being ripped off let me know and i will come and see to it that he gets ripped off "good and proper".

Maybe the people buy the counterfeit software because they dont want the Thai governement to make tax money from it as they would only use this money for lets say extrajudicial killings of alleged drug dealers hence the person buying these fake goods is actually saving peoples lives how dare to call them a hypocrite.

[dave111223]

A ) Is wrong because i lose money

B ) Is right because i save money

[siamerican]

Anyone who is overcharged, doesn't know any better, or accepts it and only ever complains deserves to be overcharged. On the contrary, any one who can pick up good on the local lingual, learns how to interact politely, jokingly, and ironically will rarely be ripped off, if at all.

Piracy isn't stealing, you still pay some 100 baht for something that cost 5 baht to make when you buy those dvds. And as far as the work of making the movie, music, or whatever media it is, a true artist would be happy that people want to own and indulge in their works, regardless if they pay or not.

[sibeymai]

regarding "B", how can anyone argue that Microsoft has been charging a realistic market price....or a price which is somehow relative to the production cost of the item.

If Microsoft want to charge whatever the market will bear, then Microsoft must bear what the market does in response, including piracy.

Can piracy really be the problem some people say it is if Microsoft shareholders can still amass billions of dollars from their profits ?

I haven't heard of any company going bankrupt due to piracy. Not likely to either.

[rgs2001uk]

regarding "B", how can anyone argue that Microsoft has been charging a realistic market price....or a price which is somehow relative to the production cost of the item.

If Microsoft want to charge whatever the market will bear, then Microsoft must bear what the market does in response, including piracy.

Can piracy really be the problem some people say it is if Microsoft shareholders can still amass billions of dollars from their profits ?

I haven't heard of any company going bankrupt due to piracy. Not likely to either.

ah good old microsoft, the bastion of business morales and ethics, you wouldnt find them engaging in anything dodgy, the vanguard of all good business practices, setting an example that others can only dream to aspire to.

personally i have no problem with anyone buying dodgy software or anything else that pokes a sharp stick in the eye of microsoft and their unethical practices.

rearrange the following, kettle pot black.

we havent even mentioned the mafia type practices of the music industry, as much as i have no time for the music of people like george michael, elton john etc, i salute the stand they took against corporate greed.

didnt radiohead make their last album free to download?

lets not forget the greed that killed off bands such as blind faith, before they really got started, they nearly killed off pearl jam, and continue to feed us a diet of overpriced overhyped overrated non talented nobodies.

the internet is your friend, video may indeed have killed the radio star, but it hasnt killed the internet, as much as the bullying tactics of organisations such as the riaa would like to.

[Heng]

a. A Thai person who makes 8000 baht a month attempts to over charge a farang who makes 80000 baht a month 20 baht.

or

b. A farang goes out and buys a suit case full of conterfeited softwaare and dvds, thus saving himself tens of thousands of baht.

I ask because, I have never met a farang who was not upset over being overcharged, but I have met many who have no problem with piracy. Are they simply hypocrites? Or is it OK to steal from companies but not individuals?

The answer is c) the Thais who are ripping off falangs AND tens of thousands of companies large and small all over the world don't give a flying som tam whether you are upset/better/worse or not.

[t.s]

Realmadrid if you find a farang who likes being ripped off let me know and i will come and see to it that he gets ripped off "good and proper".

Maybe the people buy the counterfeit software because they dont want the Thai governement to make tax money from it as they would only use this money for lets say extrajudicial killings of alleged drug dealers hence the person buying these fake goods is actually saving peoples lives how dare to call them a hypocrite.

sure, if that same magnificently principled farang manages to come to thailand without spending money on food, hotels, transportation or anything else.

wouldn't said enlightened being boycot thailand altogether unless of course they were a hypocrite themselves?

also, technically the thai may not actually be breaking the law. the farang certainly is.

Edited March 29, 2008 by t.s

[GuestHouse]

The examples are in truth both symptoms of the same problem - Though the OP twists the point of focus onto the Foreigner.

The issue is not hypocrisy on the part of the foreigner(s) but the fact that the actions of both the foreigner and the Thai in the example given are dishonest.

Those two dishonest acts exist independently of each other, neither is a justification of the other.

There are however some similarities in group behavior; Thais over charging foreigners and justifying that on the basis of (whatever their justification is) and other people (Thais included) breaking copyright on the basis of (whatever their justification is).

And it is in this justification of one’s actions where those actions are harmful to others that is a commonality.

Dodgy ground really, morality and ethics being such a difficult subject for so many in Thailand.

--

And if I might add. All my software, music, movies and whatever media I have at home and/or on my computer is fully legal.

[pattayadave]

The examples are in truth both symptoms of the same problem - Though the OP twists the point of focus onto the Foreigner.

The issue is not hypocrisy on the part of the foreigner(s) but the fact that the actions of both the foreigner and the Thai in the example given are dishonest.

Those two dishonest acts exist independently of each other, neither is a justification of the other.

There are however some similarities in group behavior; Thais over charging foreigners and justifying that on the basis of (whatever their justification is) and other people (Thais included) breaking copyright on the basis of (whatever their justification is).

And it is in this justification of one's actions where those actions are harmful to others that is a commonality.

Dodgy ground really, morality and ethics being such a difficult subject for so many in Thailand.

--

And if I might add. All my software, music, movies and whatever media I have at home and/or on my computer is fully legal.

mines all illegal saved a fortune

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

I don't really know why this topic is discussed. If you buy a pirate disc (or a Thai made Ferrari), you are committing a crime. If you can live with it, good on you. If not, just don't do it. Are there any other options?

[madjbs]

If I didn't download all my music, movies, software then I still wouldn't buy the real thing anyway. So really, nobody is loosing money from my downloading.

Edited March 29, 2008 by madjbs

[howtoescape]

Realmadrid if you find a farang who likes being ripped off let me know and i will come and see to it that he gets ripped off "good and proper".

Maybe the people buy the counterfeit software because they dont want the Thai governement to make tax money from it as they would only use this money for lets say extrajudicial killings of alleged drug dealers hence the person buying these fake goods is actually saving peoples lives how dare to call them a hypocrite.

sure, if that same magnificently principled farang manages to come to thailand without spending money on food, hotels, transportation or anything else.

wouldn't said enlightened being boycot thailand altogether unless of course they were a hypocrite themselves?

also, technically the thai may not actually be breaking the law. the farang certainly is.

I was being facetious, the OP obviousy needs someone to wipe his ass for him to ask such a stupid question.

[Jeddah Jo]

I think if you live in Thai society and and have some personal wealth there is a moral question to be answered here.

Say you are overcharged 10 baht on a bowl of noodles. Now that noodle vendor is not exactly going to be wealthy, they probably work hard, make a fair living, live in a modest dwelling and don't really have a lot of spare money for luxuries or things a wealthy farang would take for granted.

If you can say the 10 baht will make no difference to your overall financial well being, then by being nitty aren't you indirectly saying to the Thai, screw you, I have money, I am happy that you continue to live modestly or perhaps in near poverty but I still only want to pay the cheap rate!

I am happy when I am charged the going rate for day to day essentials but if I occasionally get ripped off a small amount I am definitely very sanguine about it and refuse to get wound up because basically I consider myself lucky to be born a farang and have the privileges that go with it.

JJ

[siamamerican]

regarding "B", how can anyone argue that Microsoft has been charging a realistic market price....or a price which is somehow relative to the production cost of the item.

If Microsoft want to charge whatever the market will bear, then Microsoft must bear what the market does in response, including piracy.

Can piracy really be the problem some people say it is if Microsoft shareholders can still amass billions of dollars from their profits ?

I haven't heard of any company going bankrupt due to piracy. Not likely to either.

Hmmm, Microsoft share holders have been losing money for a long time. Their ticker is MSFT.

Following your logic, successful companies should be penalized for their success. We all should strive for mediocrity to make the world a better place.

I haven't heard of any banks going BK, because of bank heists. Should I go rob a bank?

[tuky]

Well, if the Thai Government sets the example by effectively pirating patented drugs then who are we who live here to do any differently?

oops

[LaoPo]

So, should we tell our children, GO AHEAD and steal...?

Shall we tell them it's OK to steal from Granddad's wallet ?

Shall we tell them to steal from the neighbours' garage and sell the stuff on the market ?

Shall we...?.......Oh well, forget it.

Make up your own mind.

It starts small and before you realize they're big boys, cheating upon their own friends and family.

I've known a few of those rats, small rats, grown into big rats but rats nevertheless...

PS: I didn't read your message yet, Tuky; mine isn't meant personal to anyone but there might be a small message, hidden...

LaoPo

Edited March 30, 2008 by LaoPo

[sutnyod]

Like take Ancient City for example, it's privately owned, and if a non Thai goes there its 300baht, but for Thai 100 baht, even if she pulls up in a 4 million baht BMW its still only 100 baht.

Not my experience. I (farang) was asked to go to the queue for Farangs. When the personnel noticed us talking in flawless Thai they waved us over to the Thai queue. We paid the same as Thais. Have been there several times with visitors of mine and it happened every time.

I am happy that learning the language is so much appreciated. In my country people just expect everyone to speak the native language. No recognition whatsoever... If foreigners have a slight accent they are ridiculed mercilessly.

[suegha]

Theft is theft, is theft! It's that simple. Whatever justification you offer, it's theft!

[howtoescape]

Like take Ancient City for example, it's privately owned, and if a non Thai goes there its 300baht, but for Thai 100 baht, even if she pulls up in a 4 million baht BMW its still only 100 baht.

Not my experience. I (farang) was asked to go to the queue for Farangs. When the personnel noticed us talking in flawless Thai they waved us over to the Thai queue. We paid the same as Thais. Have been there several times with visitors of mine and it happened every time.

I am happy that learning the language is so much appreciated. In my country people just expect everyone to speak the native language. No recognition whatsoever... If foreigners have a slight accent they are ridiculed mercilessly.

So if you dont speak flawless Thai its ok to be charged extra? What if youre only a 2 week tourist.

Where are foreigners ridiculed for speaking your native language with a slight accent?

In my counrty which is England the government spends 100s of million of pounds on translators and translating documents for non English speakers.

[Sakeopete]

As far as DVDs and software goes I don't think its much of a real problem even for the copy right holder. Most people who buy pirated software or DVDs would not buy the real one anyways. I rarely buy either but since I enjoy PC games I will not buy copies as I want the makers to keep developing them. As far as DVDs go if I find a movie I like enough to want to see again I do splash out for the real thing. The DVDs I have that are not originals I bought because they were cheap as an impulse purchase at the market and some are still in the plastic envelope. Where the real problem comes in as far as software piracy is on the corporate level. Companies use the software to make money and they need it for their businesses therefore should be paying for licenses.

[LaoPo]

I am happy that learning the language is so much appreciated. In my country people just expect everyone to speak the native language. No recognition whatsoever... If foreigners have a slight accent they are ridiculed mercilessly.

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean....

People are ridiculed mercilessly if they have a slight accent, trying to speak a foreign language.....? What country would that be ? I'm curious.

LaoPo

[Robski]

I haven't heard of any banks going BK, because of bank heists. Should I go rob a bank?

Yes, please do and take a gun with you.

[soundman]

Here is an interesting theory.

Microsoft would not even have achieved half of the dominance it enjoys in the OS, browser etc fields if there wasn't a billion or so pirated versions of their software. On the surface it appears that MS couldn't care less about all the personal pirate copies, they make their real revenue from corporate division which is easily to regulate, much the same way most Western Govts. find it easy to use big business as tax collectors.

I would go as far to say, that MS actively encourages, behind the scenes disytibution of their OS platforms in areas where the bean counters predict weak sales, just to keep the competition out of the market place.

Soundman.

[madjbs]

Well they never do a very good job at preventing it thats for sure.

[Huey]

I think if you live in Thai society and and have some personal wealth there is a moral question to be answered here.

Say you are overcharged 10 baht on a bowl of noodles. Now that noodle vendor is not exactly going to be wealthy, they probably work hard, make a fair living, live in a modest dwelling and don't really have a lot of spare money for luxuries or things a wealthy farang would take for granted.

If you can say the 10 baht will make no difference to your overall financial well being, then by being nitty aren't you indirectly saying to the Thai, screw you, I have money, I am happy that you continue to live modestly or perhaps in near poverty but I still only want to pay the cheap rate!

I am happy when I am charged the going rate for day to day essentials but if I occasionally get ripped off a small amount I am definitely very sanguine about it and refuse to get wound up because basically I consider myself lucky to be born a farang and have the privileges that go with it.

JJ

JJ man, clarify this for me. When your born a "farang" was their a wad of cash clentched between your lil baby fists? Was your umbilcal cord made from a gold weave? Dose your "farang" blood some how make you superior to a non-farang? Or did you have to work for what you "take for granted"? I know in the States, no body gives you a damm thing for free. And if you sit on your azz chances are you will be a ignorant bum on the street. There are so many obsticals for our nations poor (me when I was a kid) that we can't build enough prisons for all of our failures. My sentiment is this, Yes I have some bread, yes I have a nice home, a good income from my buissness, hot wife, ect ect. But every penny I had to earn, with every obsticle in my face as khun somchai who thinks its cool too rip me off because I'm not Thai. F! Khun Somchai, its not about the 10 baht its the principle that pisses me off.

Like someone was saying at Ancient city because he had no farang accent he got in at the Thai rate... Man don't even get me started on how much I pay, and for that matter most expat Farangs pay, in taxes and other trumped up fees. Its racisim pure and simple. Not Classism because as I said, a rich Thai still pays 100 baht. It's ugly azz ignorant bigotry and I for one don't stand for it

Edited March 30, 2008 by Huey