Reporting Someone For Working Illegally

[wanderer9020]

when your seatmate back in uni days cheating during a quiz, would you get the attention of your professor? Let the people live thier life the way they see it fit, not unless, your affected in one way or another, there are many other things to be concerned about.

[JimmyCA]

Put yourself in a Thai persons shoes if they werein a foreign country and they knew one of their country folk were working/living illegally. They would never sell out one of their own!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(unless the money was right)

This is the point .... AND FARANGS JUST DONT GET IT

Thais know farangs are the enemy ..... Farangs in Thailand are dillusional

[easer]

The words "legal" and its counterpart "illegal" have no meaning on Samui. Be aware that with reporting him he will be in jail until he is willing to pay "bail" to some senior officer. You think that is legal?

Exactly.

I have many friends with bars on samui. Cheaper than paying tax, getting wp, and extensions, you pay immigration 500/month and they call an hour before a raid. You pay the police 500/month and nothing will ever happen to you. Law on samui? Turning anybody in that work without a permit? Because you are legal and want the law to be followed by everybody?

Wake up, smell the reality and most importantly: leave Samui at once because quite honestly the law of Thailand does not exist on this island. Police are to busy with opportunities to make "tea-money", aswell as are immigration and other athorities in an island with a population of 50k and about 10 % of that rich foreigners. Forget right or wrong, law or not. You are in an island and live by those rules rather than the law or you will have a hard time surviving.

My 5 cents anyway.

[NALAK]

ah so it is only certain laws we have to respect, lets down grade it to drug dealers then. the comments all said anybody turning a law breaker into the police is a creep low life etc. just trying to find a level at what most posts seem to think is acceptable law breaking. so what about all the guys who pay lawyers go to penang etc.

guess i am one of the mugs who has all correct papers including drivers licence, why because its the law. without the help of the general public no police force would exist, to call somebody who aids the police all the names above is school playground mentaltiy. Grow Up

Have you never committed a crime? No illegal software, counterfeit clothes?

I'm betting he once illegally parked. That makes him a drug dealing rapist murderer. I'm picking up the phone now to call Interpol to have this menace to society put away to protect us all. Hanging's too good for him I say

parked illegally in UK last year got a ticket, counterfit clothes to poor quality.

no taxes no visa fees no work permit costs no roads no schools no hospitals no police no street lighting no law and order happy days

i bet if there were a way to grass on thai taxi drivers who do not put on meters the lines would be jammed with farang grasses low life etc. and for those who think thais do not grass up fellow thais to farang bosses you never had thai staff, they cannot wait to snitch on there own. most countries tax evasion and working illegally is a serious crime, that includes Thailand.

we are guests in this country and should obey the laws accordingly.

[ClaudeFeller]

Exactly.

I have many friends with bars on samui. Cheaper than paying tax, getting wp, and extensions, you pay immigration 500/month and they call an hour before a raid. You pay the police 500/month and nothing will ever happen to you. Law on samui? Turning anybody in that work without a permit? Because you are legal and want the law to be followed by everybody?

Wow! How did your friends make this big bargain? In Koh Tao a farang managed bar costs 3.000 THB per month to the police.

Seems that Samui is a good place for business!

[lazeeboy]

dont beleive everything you read on thai visa ,if there are back handers involved which there are ,there gonna be more than 500 baht

[SamuiJens]

500 immigration +500 to police, I get 1000 Baht. Still cheap, if you want to believe all you read, I DON'T, BUT know some that do it this way. None of my concern, I have myself and others to put first hand. TIS, This is Samui.

[Ijustwannateach]

It's pretty much never a good idea to go around starting to make trouble for others. People are watching you and it will be remembered, even if they are not involved. You will get a reputation, and probably eventually a fate, that you deserve. I don't recommend that anyone works here illegally, but I wouldn't make trouble for them unless they were causing me a direct problem personally- and even then I'd try to go through other channels than involving officialdom. That's always a two-edged sword.

[maccaroni man]

Put yourself in a Thai persons shoes if they werein a foreign country and they knew one of their country folk were working/living illegally. They would never sell out one of their own!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(unless the money was right)

Wrong, I have spoken with a number of Thais living in LA and they all said the Thais are the worst about turning one another in.

[Samuian]

turning somebody in for what ever reason is morally illegal! And lower shelf than illegal working, still this person is trying to make a living while working, illegal....

I wouldn't lose another thought on this one and then there are authorities for this, one day he may find himself in the nets...

[Mark Wolfe]

This is very easy for me.

I lived in a foreign country for 20 years before coming here. I always had a work permit, an alien resident card, paid my taxes, had insurance, got a driver's license, never overstayed my visa, always got exit permits and re-entry permits, and never otherwise broke the law.

If someone here isn't obeying the law, I would have no problem turning them in. And I would not even shed crocodile tears for what the consequences might be.

Look, we are guests here and as such are required to play by whatever the rules here are (like them or not). If you don't, you are subject to the penalties (if you don't know what they are, you ought to. Ignorance of the law is no excuse).

One other thing to keep in mind is this: If everyone turned a blind eye to breaking the laws, however small, you might end up with the kind of society (Thailand perhaps?) where bribery, malfeasance and misprison are rife. People who lament the corruption of countries like Thailand would do well to remember how this all comes about.

Imagine a guy running a shop in the UK without any legal paperwork, no liquor license or work permit (or equivalent) and someone else saying, "No need to turn him in; he's from India, he's a foreigner. Give him a break."

It could be argued that everyone MUST turn in wrongdoers as part of your social responsibility.

[garro]

Dear mark wolfe, We obviously have very different ideas of social responsibility. I believe snooping and informing on people is the work of mean-spirited snakes who I wouldn't trust an inch. I do things legally, but that does not mean that I care about somebody else trying to make a few bob, and their situation meaning that they have to break a few visa regulation. If my family was starving I guarantee you that I would do whatever it took to put food on the table.

Informants and curtain twitchers will always exist. Luckily nobody takes these snakes seriously and even the authorities, while grateful for the information, can see snitches for the untrustworthty people they are.

[SamuiJens]

This is very easy for me.

I lived in a foreign country for 20 years before coming here. I always had a work permit, an alien resident card, paid my taxes, had insurance, got a driver's license, never overstayed my visa, always got exit permits and re-entry permits, and never otherwise broke the law.

If someone here isn't obeying the law, I would have no problem turning them in. And I would not even shed crocodile tears for what the consequences might be.

Look, we are guests here and as such are required to play by whatever the rules here are (like them or not). If you don't, you are subject to the penalties (if you don't know what they are, you ought to. Ignorance of the law is no excuse).

One other thing to keep in mind is this: If everyone turned a blind eye to breaking the laws, however small, you might end up with the kind of society (Thailand perhaps?) where bribery, malfeasance and misprison are rife. People who lament the corruption of countries like Thailand would do well to remember how this all comes about.

Imagine a guy running a shop in the UK without any legal paperwork, no liquor license or work permit (or equivalent) and someone else saying, "No need to turn him in; he's from India, he's a foreigner. Give him a break."

It could be argued that everyone MUST turn in wrongdoers as part of your social responsibility.

Mark,

BS, to you. I was caught-up in a small drug-bust(a few joints) back in 2002, I had NOTHING to do with it and having walked in after it had gone down at a Beach Bar. Anyways, the owner was arrested and taken to jail and his staff went with him to help and "asked" me to look after the said Bar! All his (the owners) stuff was there and he lived on the 2nd floor (with a beach view like yours, Mark) and his wallet was on the bar with all his papers (don't know why it wasn't taken too).

Anyways I was just cleaning up and some of his customers come by and I tell them the news, and they order some beers and we talk about it. NOW should I have been BUSTED for helping in this case??????Next day I wasn't doing any "work" and I didn't want or make 1 Baht out of it!

Well Mark? I must be a real criminal in your eyes!

Edited April 15, 2008 by SamuiJens

[koheesti]

, and never otherwise broke the law.

...

It could be argued that everyone MUST turn in wrongdoers as part of your social responsibility.

So, it's safe to assume all your computer software and DVDs are legal?

[SamuiJens]

, and never otherwise broke the law.

...

It could be argued that everyone MUST turn in wrongdoers as part of your social responsibility.

So, it's safe to assume all your computer software and DVDs are legal?

Sure is

[Mark Wolfe]

The meaning of social responsibility has, at its heart, the concept of concern for the welfare of the group, not only specific individuals within that group.

The idea that it is acceptable morally not to report a crime or offense made against the established and upheld laws and rules of a society is socially irresponsible and indicates moral lassitude.

I am not here referring to any fictitious state, ala 1984, or any peculiar circumstances such as during wartime. I am talking about everyday events.

Let me give you a few examples.

Example 1:

Mr. Gallo, who lives on Koh Samui, has learned that someone he is acquainted with, but not a friend of, makes his living (such as it is) as a cat burglar. Fortunately, Mr. Gallo thinks, this cat burglar works only on Koh Phangan. Recent break-ins on Koh Phangan have all the hallmarks of this cat burglar and Mr. Gallo has to make a choice: should he call the police and report this fellow, knowing that it will complicate his life to an unknown degree and label him a "snitch"; or should he do nothing since the illegal activities have nothing to do with him and he doesn't want to complicate his life? (And for the sake of argument, one could add that the cat burglar is just trying to make ends meet; maybe he's down on his luck, etc.)

He could easily choose to do nothing, but what if the situation was altered slightly in the following way:

Example 1A:

Mr. Gallo lives on Koh Phangan and has been hit hard by a cat burglar. Through the grapevine, Mr. Gallo learns that there is a person living on Koh Samui, unrelated to the cat burglar or his crimes, who knows the identity of the lawbreaker and his whereabouts. Would Mr. Gallo now hold the same view as in the previous example? Would Mr. Gallo say that if the man on Koh Samui revealed his information he would be a snitch and should keep quiet? After all, the burglar might just be trying to make a living the best way he knows how.

The above goes to the heart of the "victimless crime." So let's turn to the matter at hand:

Example 2:

Joe Farang has opened a dive shop in Koh Tao. He doesn't have any legal standing for this; he doesn't even have a work permit. Whether his dive services are cheaper than others or the same is irrelevant. He is in direct competition with other, legal operators. The bakers on the island are unconcerned about this, even though they are aware of it, primarily because of the fact that an illegal dive operator doesn't take away custom from them.

Should one of the bakers notify the immigration police? Should one of the legal dive operators in Koh Tao? Should a legal dive operator based in Samui report this?

Now, let's not be confused about mistaken identity or false arrest. Any system is subject to errors or the bungling of fools (e.g. nothing is "fool proof"). Being in the wrong place at the wrong time is unfortunate, but that isn't the issue here, nor is false accusation.

We have a moral duty to report wrongdoings – from illegal dumping of waste (even though it is not in your front yard) to those working illegally.

I'm not suggesting that everyone has a perfect moral compass (myself included); everyone has to measure the situation they find themselves in and act accordingly. It is not always easy. But for the good of the group, we ought to be prepared to make the right choices – the good choices – even if the consequences (or the consequences of inaction) seem irrelevant to us.

A final thought. For my own part as an American, for example, when I see someone throwing litter on the ground/street a deeply ingrained nerve is struck saying in my mind: "This is wrong and it must not continue." I have an instinct, I can only think of it in this sense, to accost the person littering and instruct him or her to pick up the trash. Why? Throwing an empty pack of smokes into the gutter in front of a bar should mean nothing to me. So why does it resonate so strongly within me? It's not in front of my house. So why care?

The reason is that I have a strong sense of social responsibility when it comes to keeping OUR (read: yours and mine) environment clean of rubbish. If I saw someone dumping trash where it doesn't belong, I would, if possible, try to see that that person is punished for it, and, hopefully along the way, educated regarding how to respect the environment for everyone.

If you say that people who wish to turn in lawbreakers are "snitches" and "do-gooders" (how ironic is that term these days?), would you also say the same to someone who declines to identify a man he witnessed in the process of a rape? Would you look the other way when someone shoplifts?

(And by the way, this is not a discussion of whether an act should be classified as a crime, as in smoking dope. Any argument must be predicated on the fact that whether you agree or not with a certain law, it is currently on the books.)

SJ, what does "BS, to you" mean?

[Samuian]

....edit...for example, when I see someone throwing litter on the ground/street a deeply ingrained nerve is struck saying in my mind: "This is wrong and it must not continue." I have an instinct, I can only think of it in this sense, to accost the person littering and instruct him or her to pick up the trash. ....

This would be the way to go, as the "crime" mentioned here, is more or less a petty crime, a minor offense, if at all!

Approach the person, tell him to get his act together or otherwise he will face the consequences!

Then One will have done his/her civil duties and served what is commonly understood as "morale" or "ethical".

[koheesti]

A final thought. For my own part as an American, for example, when I see someone throwing litter on the ground/street a deeply ingrained nerve is struck saying in my mind: "This is wrong and it must not continue." I have an instinct, I can only think of it in this sense, to accost the person littering and instruct him or her to pick up the trash. Why? Throwing an empty pack of smokes into the gutter in front of a bar should mean nothing to me. So why does it resonate so strongly within me? It's not in front of my house. So why care?

The reason is that I have a strong sense of social responsibility when it comes to keeping OUR (read: yours and mine) environment clean of rubbish. If I saw someone dumping trash where it doesn't belong, I would, if possible, try to see that that person is punished for it, and, hopefully along the way, educated regarding how to respect the environment for everyone.

So do you confront the people each time you see it? I feel the same as you and always have but never confront strangers when they do it. Then I would end up having to report a more serious crime - assault on me.

As far as a moral compass or social responsibility goes, there are degrees of everything. If EVERYONE reported every little thing to the authorities and the authorities actually acted upon these reports the would need half the population to work for immigration or the police just to keep up. Also, not turning in a rapist or murderer is on a whole diff level than turning in people working without the proper papers or owning pirated software.

[garro]

Mark Wolfe, I was not surprised to see you equate rape with working illegally. I was expecting this, as it is the typical response from people who can only see the world in terms of black and white, and right and wrong. I personally see social responsibility as doing something for the community, maybe a bit of charity work. I don't see it as snooping on my neighbors and reporting their misdemeanors. I have my own live to lead. It has often been my experience that those people who are most concerned about the wrongdoings of others tend to be the unhappiest. I hope for their sake, that people you come into contact with are aware of your sneaky ways.

BTW, I do not equate 'snitches' and 'do-gooders' as the same thing. At least with the second category their hearts are often in the right place.

[2008bangkok]

This is by far one of the worst posts iv read on TV, I just cant believe what im reading, and whats more shocking is to think that all those people who believe its okay to grass somebody up, are whiter than white law abiding citizens that have never as much as parked in the wrong place, come on snitchs wake up and smell the roses why dont you try shifting your attention to more important thinks instead of worrying if the next door neighbour's motorbike has a valid tax disk on it...

You curtain twitchers make me sick...

[Boo]

this topic has become just a place for people to slag each other off. As the op has already made his descision I am closing this thread.