Divorce Question - American / Thai

[Tokay]

First post... Hello all!

One of my employees is asking for my help regarding her American husband who refuses to return to Thailand to divorce her.

The story I got, and the truth may be far from it, is that he is in the military and talked her into getting married so that he could get a large pay raise. In return he would pay her something monthly. Of course you can guess the rest, after they were married he has hardly sent her anything and has strung her along for a total of 11 months now, 9 of which he has not seen her and according to her, has not returned to Thailand since. It seems it was to be a monetary matter for both of them and she got the short end of the stick.

Now he refuses to return for a divorce and she wants to move on with her life.

I'm not sure what help I can be to her but I promised her I would ask and perhaps point her in the right direction. If any of you have any advice or solid information regarding such a matter, please pass it along. I have been reading the forum for a few days but can not find anything specific to this, usually it seems it's the lady who doesn't want the divorce.

Kind regards to all. ~ Tokay

[howtoescape]

If i had a problem like that in England id go to a solicitor/lawyer before going on a web forum.

[retiredusn]

After 25yrs. in the Navy, I know of No large pay raise for just being married. Did they get married in Thailand and if so was it a proper certified wedding, (ie) American Embassey notifcation, spouse military ID card issued from JusMag?? Was he on leave, or just a ships visit. Personnel normally have to request permission to marry. Seems to be a lot of unanswered questions, you may want to find out more from the young lady.

[Ski_Goong]

He would get a nice "pay raise" if he were assigned to an unaccompanied overseas tours (such as Korea). When I was stationed in Korea and my wife was in Thailand, my "take home pay" almost doubled due to all the extra "allowances."

Not everybody gets a nice pay raise for being married. Most gets between $200-$600 extra per month but it's nothing to just get married for. If they are truly married (meaning registered at Amphur) she can go to JusMag as was suggested and get him sent to jail quite easily. In Korea several military members were sent to jail for this type of fraud.

Ski....

After 25yrs. in the Navy, I know of No large pay raise for just being married. Did they get married in Thailand and if so was it a proper certified wedding, (ie) American Embassey notifcation, spouse military ID card issued from JusMag?? Was he on leave, or just a ships visit. Personnel normally have to request permission to marry. Seems to be a lot of unanswered questions, you may want to find out more from the young lady.

[sriracha john]

Echoing retiredusn's comments and presuming her spouse is still active duty, she can create a giant thunderstorm of problems for him and his fraudulent marriage plans (marrying her and not supporting her in the manner described is fraud)...

Have her contact the American Embassy in Bangkok.

[howtoescape]

Echoing retiredusn's comments and presuming her spouse is still active duty, she can create a giant thunderstorm of problems for him and his fraudulent marriage plans (marrying her and not supporting her in the manner described is fraud)...

Have her contact the American Embassy in Bangkok.

Id call it an underpaid soldier playing the system, good luck to him scamming the government.

This girl sounds like a scamming money grabber who has been scammed, is it a bar you own where this girl works?

[Dakhar]

....talked her into getting married

I am sure that was a real challenge

[sriracha john]

Echoing retiredusn's comments and presuming her spouse is still active duty, she can create a giant thunderstorm of problems for him and his fraudulent marriage plans (marrying her and not supporting her in the manner described is fraud)...

Have her contact the American Embassy in Bangkok.

Id call it an underpaid soldier playing the system, good luck to him scamming the government.

This girl sounds like a scamming money grabber who has been scammed, is it a bar you own where this girl works?

Ridiculous flaming aside... what the husband has done is criminal fraud... and as Ski_Goong pointed out has led to the prosecution of other service members for the same criminal act.

It's interesting that you applaud his efforts to defraud American taxpayers and besmirch all other legitimately-married service members.

Edited April 4, 2008 by sriracha john

[klikster]

... what the husband has done is criminal fraud...

Shouldn't there be an "if" or "purportedly" mixed in there somewhere? After all, we have heard one side of the story .. second hand?

[sriracha john]

... what the husband has done is criminal fraud...

Shouldn't there be an "if" or "purportedly" mixed in there somewhere? After all, we have heard one side of the story .. second hand?

Hence the reason for the omitted portion...

(marrying her and not supporting her in the manner described is fraud)...

[thaihome]

The poster asked how is employee could get on with her life, he did not ask for judgments on either party.

She can get a divorce without his agreement if they are separated for a certain period of time. I think it is one year, but it might be more. An attorney could easily answer the question.

TH

[mellow1]

Why are you trying to help someone who knowingly tried to defraud the US government, and because they got the short end of the stick, as you put it, is now trying to get on with her life. To do what, defraud someone else, with perhaps better results?

[soundman]

The poster asked how is employee could get on with her life, he did not ask for judgments on either party.

She can get a divorce without his agreement if they are separated for a certain period of time. I think it is one year, but it might be more. An attorney could easily answer the question.

TH

Correct.

Abandonment is reasonable grounds for one party to divorce the other without the other party's consent to the divorce in Thailand.

Not sure whether it is six months or one year.

Soundman.

[Farma]

I’d suggest she talk to a divorce lawyer.

Depending on her actual circumstances it’s possible she may be able to file for divorce on the grounds :-

one spouse has deserted the other for over one year

or lack of marital support (unsure, this may be time dependent)

or a 3 year period of separation (she has to wait longer for this)

A Lawyer will be able to determine the best way to proceed once he knows all the details of the case.

[pop_corn]

Tell her to talk to a lawyer?

I dont think the best help may come from a forum.

[Farma]

Popcorn this case will need a court ruling to finalize. She won’t be able to obtain an uncontested (Umphur) divorce.

Unless the lady in question knows Thai law inside out I suspect she will need the services of a lawyer to file court documents.

[rito]

Echoing retiredusn's comments and presuming her spouse is still active duty, she can create a giant thunderstorm of problems for him and his fraudulent marriage plans (marrying her and not supporting her in the manner described is fraud)...

Have her contact the American Embassy in Bangkok.

Concur with the above. I retired with 26 yrs of service and in my experience it was quite often that young Marines would make a "contract" marriage just to get out of living in the barracks. Don't know if this is the case, but he certainly would see an increase in pay.

To the OP, try contacting JUSMAG maybe she can get assistance there rather than the Embassy. They might have a legal officer or someone filling that billet. It would be helpful if she had his social security number.

JUSMAG 66-2-287-1036

http://www.jusmagthai.com/index_002.htm

[pop_corn]

Popcorn this case will need a court ruling to finalize. She won’t be able to obtain an uncontested (Umphur) divorce.

Unless the lady in question knows Thai law inside out I suspect she will need the services of a lawyer to file court documents.

totally agree

[Tokay]

After 25yrs. in the Navy, I know of No large pay raise for just being married. Did they get married in Thailand and if so was it a proper certified wedding, (ie) American Embassey notifcation, spouse military ID card issued from JusMag?? Was he on leave, or just a ships visit. Personnel normally have to request permission to marry. Seems to be a lot of unanswered questions, you may want to find out more from the young lady.

Yes sir, she has a US military ID card given from JUSMAG. She contact JUSMAG first and was told he would have to return to Thailand for a divorce and left it at that. I just couldn't believe that there was not a way out, thus my own research into the matter.

I thought I'd ask here first being so many of you are extremely knowledgeable on a large range of topics. Of course an attorney will be the final stop for this. Though I would like give her a little ammo before sending her off.

[Tokay]

He would get a nice "pay raise" if he were assigned to an unaccompanied overseas tours (such as Korea). When I was stationed in Korea and my wife was in Thailand, my "take home pay" almost doubled due to all the extra "allowances."

Not everybody gets a nice pay raise for being married. Most gets between $200-$600 extra per month but it's nothing to just get married for. If they are truly married (meaning registered at Amphur) she can go to JusMag as was suggested and get him sent to jail quite easily. In Korea several military members were sent to jail for this type of fraud.

Ski....

After 25yrs. in the Navy, I know of No large pay raise for just being married. Did they get married in Thailand and if so was it a proper certified wedding, (ie) American Embassey notifcation, spouse military ID card issued from JusMag?? Was he on leave, or just a ships visit. Personnel normally have to request permission to marry. Seems to be a lot of unanswered questions, you may want to find out more from the young lady.

Yes, they did get married IN Thailand with a proper wedding, registered at the Amphur and she has a military ID card.

[Tokay]

This girl sounds like a scamming money grabber who has been scammed, is it a bar you own where this girl works?

We were all young and stupid once. She is quite a nice lady and a very hard worker. I can't fault her for trying to make a few extra dollars this way. Lord know when I was a kid I did some dumb things.

No sir, I don't own a bar. You couldn't pay me enough to even attempt to run a bar.

[rito]

After 25yrs. in the Navy, I know of No large pay raise for just being married. Did they get married in Thailand and if so was it a proper certified wedding, (ie) American Embassy notifcation, spouse military ID card issued from JusMag?? Was he on leave, or just a ships visit. Personnel normally have to request permission to marry. Seems to be a lot of unanswered questions, you may want to find out more from the young lady.

Yes sir, she has a US military ID card given from JUSMAG. She contact JUSMAG first and was told he would have to return to Thailand for a divorce and left it at that. I just couldn't believe that there was not a way out, thus my own research into the matter.

I thought I'd ask here first being so many of you are extremely knowledgeable on a large range of topics. Of course an attorney will be the final stop for this. Though I would like give her a little ammo before sending her off.

Being that your friend has already approached JUSMAG without any assistance, than she needs to get of hold of her husbands command. She already has his social security number [sSN] (it's on her military ID card). Getting a hold of his command will be the difficult part, but she needs to press the issue with JUSMAG. As a military spouse she has some rights. Up to her, but she needs to be persistent with JUSMAG otherwise they will just blow her off. JUSMAG should be able to look up the guys unit/command with his name, SSN and branch of service.

Also, if she gets through to the guy's command. She might be able to get a portion of the guys pay until he either divorces her or gets back together or until the matter is resolved. The portion of pay she would get would be the pay increase he got when he married her which is BAH (Basic Allowance for Housing). This is the only pay increase he will have received by marring and it's determined by rank & location of his residence. Here's a link for more info on BAH.

http://www.defenselink.mil/militarypay/pay/bah/02_types.html

At the end of the day, her persistence is the key to resolving this matter. I would go back to JUSMAG and ask for the personnel officer, legal officer and or the senior enlisted non-commissioned officer in charge (1st Sergeant/Sergeant Major).

Last resort, have her report her marriage as fraudulent. Every branch of service has a hot line to report Fraud, Waste & Abuse. I doubt that there be any repercussions on her part.

[daveh]

It sounds like she knowingly has committed a fraud by marrying this guy so he could get a pay increase. I think no matter how their marriage ends, she has given up any chance of getting a visa to the US. She should be very careful about how she explains her situation to any US government official.

Dave.

[howtoescape]

This girl sounds like a scamming money grabber who has been scammed, is it a bar you own where this girl works?

We were all young and stupid once. She is quite a nice lady and a very hard worker. I can't fault her for trying to make a few extra dollars this way. Lord know when I was a kid I did some dumb things.

No sir, I don't own a bar. You couldn't pay me enough to even attempt to run a bar.

Fair play if you say she's a good girl and works hard i'll believe you, but the certain people that would happily see a man thrown into jail for such a minor crime deserve a brick in the face.

Im sure this could be quite easily resolved without gettting people into bother with the establishment no matter how silly theyve been.

Edited April 5, 2008 by howtoescape

[Tokay]

After 25yrs. in the Navy, I know of No large pay raise for just being married. Did they get married in Thailand and if so was it a proper certified wedding, (ie) American Embassy notifcation, spouse military ID card issued from JusMag?? Was he on leave, or just a ships visit. Personnel normally have to request permission to marry. Seems to be a lot of unanswered questions, you may want to find out more from the young lady.

Yes sir, she has a US military ID card given from JUSMAG. She contact JUSMAG first and was told he would have to return to Thailand for a divorce and left it at that. I just couldn't believe that there was not a way out, thus my own research into the matter.

I thought I'd ask here first being so many of you are extremely knowledgeable on a large range of topics. Of course an attorney will be the final stop for this. Though I would like give her a little ammo before sending her off.

Being that your friend has already approached JUSMAG without any assistance, than she needs to get of hold of her husbands command. She already has his social security number [sSN] (it's on her military ID card). Getting a hold of his command will be the difficult part, but she needs to press the issue with JUSMAG. As a military spouse she has some rights. Up to her, but she needs to be persistent with JUSMAG otherwise they will just blow her off. JUSMAG should be able to look up the guys unit/command with his name, SSN and branch of service.

Also, if she gets through to the guy's command. She might be able to get a portion of the guys pay until he either divorces her or gets back together or until the matter is resolved. The portion of pay she would get would be the pay increase he got when he married her which is BAH (Basic Allowance for Housing). This is the only pay increase he will have received by marring and it's determined by rank & location of his residence. Here's a link for more info on BAH.

http://www.defenselink.mil/militarypay/pay/bah/02_types.html

At the end of the day, her persistence is the key to resolving this matter. I would go back to JUSMAG and ask for the personnel officer, legal officer and or the senior enlisted non-commissioned officer in charge (1st Sergeant/Sergeant Major).

Last resort, have her report her marriage as fraudulent. Every branch of service has a hot line to report Fraud, Waste & Abuse. I doubt that there be any repercussions on her part.

A lot of great information there. That is the kind of answer I was looking for before having her spend her own money to get an attorney if she didn't have to.

Thank you very much.

[Tokay]

It sounds like she knowingly has committed a fraud by marrying this guy so he could get a pay increase. I think no matter how their marriage ends, she has given up any chance of getting a visa to the US. She should be very careful about how she explains her situation to any US government official.

Dave.

I'm not passing judgement on her for commiting fraud. She earns a small salery and to be honest, if I was her I may have done the same. I mean, I she had to do is sign a paper or two and get paid for it. Hardly fraud for Thai people. Fruad would be to marry him, talk him into getting a house, starting a business, getting bank accounts... all in her name, with the intention of stealing it all. heh

Thanks again for your help guys.

[Farma]

Tokay, please keep us updated on the progress.

Hopefully the military have an agreement with Thailand or they force the husband to return and sign the divorce documents.

Below is my understanding of the divorce process.

I believe both parties are required to attend the Umphur, show their wedding certificates and sign paperwork prior to a divorce being issued.

Failing that, I believe a court order is required if one party refuses or cannot appear. i.e. The case has to go through the divorce court. A lawyer will be required. The person applying for divorce will have to make 1 appearance in person.

Once the courts have issued an order permitting divorce, the person (i.e the lady in question) presents herself along with the court order and marriage certificate to the Umphur.

Umphur officials will study the court order and ask a number of questions prior to proceeding.

2 documents will be issued. A certificate of divorce and a double sided white document.

This white document lists the details of the people being divorced, signed and witnessed on one side. The signatures are 1 divorcee, 2 witnesses and 1 Umphur official.

The reverse contains the details of the court order and I believe states the reason why only 1 party has signed the divorce certificate and the white document. This also requires 4 signatures as listed above.

On both sides of this document the name of the missing party is handwritten by the Umphur official in the places the missing person would normally be required to sign.

I hope this helps.

[retiredusn]

The military will not force the man back to Thailand for a Divorce . All of these post seem to find the man guilty !!Lets wait until we hear his side before some bleeding heart story by a third party is believed.

[Farma]

Fair enough they may not force him to return to Thailand. Let’s rephrase my comment to say I hope they convince him to return to Thailand for the divorce or he changes his mind to return of his own accord.

The OP suggests the marriage isn’t a marriage, so why stay married?

The fact remains, unless they both appear in person at the Umphur for a divorce, I believe the only other option is a divorce court case and all the dirt that could bring.

[mellow1]

It sounds like she knowingly has committed a fraud by marrying this guy so he could get a pay increase. I think no matter how their marriage ends, she has given up any chance of getting a visa to the US. She should be very careful about how she explains her situation to any US government official.

Dave.

Yes, it will be very interesting how she explains to the US government that her attempted fraud ( silly little mistake, cause she's Thai ) has backfired, and now would like to move on to greener pastures. She needs absolutely no proof, her mouth will be quite sufficient, along with the signing of a small statement confirming her facts. This will probably lead to prosecution here in the LOS, because the US government doesn't think fraud is a silly little mistake. The government attaches don't get paid on a per case basis, so its of no extra cost for them to file these charges here. Smart girl, go for it, shoot off your mouth. You know the saying "give them enough rope to hang themselves"? I certainly hope she never gets a US visa.