Appeal - Persona Non Grata (png) / Blacklisted

[whiteboyinasia]

In short: I have been arrested, sentenced and deported because I bought Viagra from a Burmese pharmacy and carried it on my way back to Ranong on my visa run, therefore my single offence being importing a controlled substance without permit (small offence but long story). Now I want to submit an appeal and would like to know if anyone could give me more information about what chances I might have for it to be granted and how long it might take. I read in the immigration act that one can submit an appeal only within 48 hours after signing the document in which one acknowledges deportation, either after arriving at immigration from prison or after trying entering Thailand while blacklisted (act 22 and 36). Does that mean I can't appeal from ouside Thailand? Does anyone have any experience with that? I'm grateful for any kind of help or advice regarding this matter. Feel free to ask if you need more details.

[yaketyak]

Sorry i cannot help you with your actual enquiry , but i am astounded that carrying/buying viagra is an offence at all. I knew that in some of those loony arab countries having nurofen with you is a capital offence , but i thought Thailand was partially sensible on everything that is not the hard stuff (no pun intended)

You can freely buy the stuff in the pharmacies in Patpong yet you are saying it went to court and you were deported??

Are you talking about huge amounts or amount consistant with personal useage?

Surely after arrest you had the chance to buy your way out of the situation anyway?? If so why didn't you?

I'm amazed !!

[twschw]

When I did my one and only border crossing to Cambodia, after leaving Thailand we were instructed to go shopping in the little shopping area. It seemed to me that there were 3 things for sale: booze, ciggies and Viagra. The shop lady was calling to each of us to buy viagra (oh there was cialis too, I guess that is like viagra). So I doubt your friend was arrested, convicted and deported on bringing viagra into the kingdom. So you probably need to tell the rest of the story so we can help you out further.

[hanuman19]

In short: I have been arrested, sentenced and deported because I bought Viagra from a Burmese pharmacy and carried it on my way back to Ranong on my visa run, therefore my single offence being importing a controlled substance without permit (small offence but long story). Now I want to submit an appeal and would like to know if anyone could give me more information about what chances I might have for it to be granted and how long it might take. I read in the immigration act that one can submit an appeal only within 48 hours after signing the document in which one acknowledges deportation, either after arriving at immigration from prison or after trying entering Thailand while blacklisted (act 22 and 36). Does that mean I can't appeal from ouside Thailand? Does anyone have any experience with that? I'm grateful for any kind of help or advice regarding this matter. Feel free to ask if you need more details.

For a misdemeanor you mostly will not be arrested and deported, so please do tell how many of them Viagra's you had with you?

[Pushit]

In short: I have been arrested, sentenced and deported because I bought Viagra from a Burmese pharmacy and carried it on my way back to Ranong on my visa run, therefore my single offence being importing a controlled substance without permit (small offence but long story). Now I want to submit an appeal and would like to know if anyone could give me more information about what chances I might have for it to be granted and how long it might take. I read in the immigration act that one can submit an appeal only within 48 hours after signing the document in which one acknowledges deportation, either after arriving at immigration from prison or after trying entering Thailand while blacklisted (act 22 and 36). Does that mean I can't appeal from ouside Thailand? Does anyone have any experience with that? I'm grateful for any kind of help or advice regarding this matter. Feel free to ask if you need more details.

Frankly your name, picture and Dob etc are now appear on the Thai Immigration/Interpol computer database as a transporter of restricted substances, if you do not have solid grounds for appeal regarding smuggling the aforementioned, you are indeed stuffed unless you have an extremely smart lawyer.

Sorry

[PhilHarries]

Like others I am astounded that a few Viagra carries the penalty of deportation and PNG status but if this story is true, and I have my doubts, I think the real reason lies in the throw away line "small offence but long story". What else transpired in addition to the Viagra or how many Viagra were involved?

[whiteboyinasia]

To clarify the questions asked : The amount of Viagra was 320 pills of different brands intended for use with gay friends over a period of several months. Of course I was asked if I intend to sell which I denied and in all the documents related to my case I'm only charged with importing a controlled drug without the proper permit. I speak/read/write/type Thai so I know for sure what I signed and have been charged with. It is indeed not common procedure to arrest/sentence/deport foreigners who are caught with Viagra or even Marijuana up to certain amounts. I have reason to believe that my arrest and the arrest of an English guy 2 weeks previously where done with the intend to increase the responsible police officer's financial abilities. I was not able to pay though when asked because I only carried enough money to pay for my visa run plus the viagra and unfortunately didn't have my ATM card with me either. I know that besides the English guy (who was carrying Viagra AND Marijuana) and me there where no other Caucasian people ever in the Ranong prison's history, neither before nor did any arrive after me. I also know as a fact from a Ranong immigration officer that the police officer responsible for our arrest has been either transfered or fired shortly after my arrest (he wouldn't give the details but just said that he's no working here anymore because he caused major problems), probably for reasons of negative publicity (both arrests where shown in newspaper and local TV) that might have affected tourism especially in Phuket from where most people do there visa runs in Ranong, many of them buying Viagra and else. So I don't really know about anyone else who had to spend 40 days in prison to await the court's sentence (fine of 7,500 Baht which I didn't have to pay because every day in prison counts as 200 Baht paid) and then 2 weeks in an immigration cell awaiting deportation. When I asked, the immigration officers in Bangkok told me that I could enter Thailand again without experiencing any problems as soon as I got a new passport (because the Ranong police somehow "lost" my old one while I was in prison and couldn't find it anymore when I came out, no apologies or reimbursement made of course) and a new Thai visa of course. But when I did so and arrived back in Thailand I was told that I'm PNG/blacklisted for 100 years and had to spend another night in a cell before being able to take a flight back to Europe. I don't think I need to mention that this is the worst time in my life, having spend 8 years in Thailand never causing any problems in any way.

[worldfun]

Wow man that must be pretty tough going!

well 320 pills is of course different than buying a few packs like the average visa run guy might do, but at least I hope it was cheaper over there...

I don't see why you could not make an appeal since you can't enter LOS I'm sure your local consulate will have yto entertain you.

Best of luck

[tamsin]

To clarify the questions asked : The amount of Viagra was 320 pills of different brands intended for use with gay friends over a period of several months. Of course I was asked if I intend to sell which I denied and in all the documents related to my case I'm only charged with importing a controlled drug without the proper permit. I speak/read/write/type Thai so I know for sure what I signed and have been charged with. It is indeed not common procedure to arrest/sentence/deport foreigners who are caught with Viagra or even Marijuana up to certain amounts. I have reason to believe that my arrest and the arrest of an English guy 2 weeks previously where done with the intend to increase the responsible police officer's financial abilities. I was not able to pay though when asked because I only carried enough money to pay for my visa run plus the viagra and unfortunately didn't have my ATM card with me either. I know that besides the English guy (who was carrying Viagra AND Marijuana) and me there where no other Caucasian people ever in the Ranong prison's history, neither before nor did any arrive after me. I also know as a fact from a Ranong immigration officer that the police officer responsible for our arrest has been either transfered or fired shortly after my arrest (he wouldn't give the details but just said that he's no working here anymore because he caused major problems), probably for reasons of negative publicity (both arrests where shown in newspaper and local TV) that might have affected tourism especially in Phuket from where most people do there visa runs in Ranong, many of them buying Viagra and else. So I don't really know about anyone else who had to spend 40 days in prison to await the court's sentence (fine of 7,500 Baht which I didn't have to pay because every day in prison counts as 200 Baht paid) and then 2 weeks in an immigration cell awaiting deportation. When I asked, the immigration officers in Bangkok told me that I could enter Thailand again without experiencing any problems as soon as I got a new passport (because the Ranong police somehow "lost" my old one while I was in prison and couldn't find it anymore when I came out, no apologies or reimbursement made of course) and a new Thai visa of course. But when I did so and arrived back in Thailand I was told that I'm PNG/blacklisted for 100 years and had to spend another night in a cell before being able to take a flight back to Europe. I don't think I need to mention that this is the worst time in my life, having spend 8 years in Thailand never causing any problems in any way.

excellent! one less and God knows how many more to go

[rgs2001uk]

my heart bleedeth purple piss.

agree with the above post 100%

the op knew exactly what he was doing, premeditated, when are these visa runners ever going to learn, just because everyone else does it doesnt it make it legal.

i will sleep easier in bed tonight knowing theres now one less in thailand, stick to benidorm or aya napa.

[Pushit]

To clarify the questions asked : The amount of Viagra was 320 pills of different brands intended for use with gay friends over a period of several months. Of course I was asked if I intend to sell which I denied and in all the documents related to my case I'm only charged with importing a controlled drug without the proper permit. I speak/read/write/type Thai so I know for sure what I signed and have been charged with. It is indeed not common procedure to arrest/sentence/deport foreigners who are caught with Viagra or even Marijuana up to certain amounts. I have reason to believe that my arrest and the arrest of an English guy 2 weeks previously where done with the intend to increase the responsible police officer's financial abilities. I was not able to pay though when asked because I only carried enough money to pay for my visa run plus the viagra and unfortunately didn't have my ATM card with me either. I know that besides the English guy (who was carrying Viagra AND Marijuana) and me there where no other Caucasian people ever in the Ranong prison's history, neither before nor did any arrive after me. I also know as a fact from a Ranong immigration officer that the police officer responsible for our arrest has been either transfered or fired shortly after my arrest (he wouldn't give the details but just said that he's no working here anymore because he caused major problems), probably for reasons of negative publicity (both arrests where shown in newspaper and local TV) that might have affected tourism especially in Phuket from where most people do there visa runs in Ranong, many of them buying Viagra and else. So I don't really know about anyone else who had to spend 40 days in prison to await the court's sentence (fine of 7,500 Baht which I didn't have to pay because every day in prison counts as 200 Baht paid) and then 2 weeks in an immigration cell awaiting deportation. When I asked, the immigration officers in Bangkok told me that I could enter Thailand again without experiencing any problems as soon as I got a new passport (because the Ranong police somehow "lost" my old one while I was in prison and couldn't find it anymore when I came out, no apologies or reimbursement made of course) and a new Thai visa of course. But when I did so and arrived back in Thailand I was told that I'm PNG/blacklisted for 100 years and had to spend another night in a cell before being able to take a flight back to Europe. I don't think I need to mention that this is the worst time in my life, having spend 8 years in Thailand never causing any problems in any way.

Should be "this is the worst time in my life SO FAR"

[jdinasia]

You attempted to import 320 pills without a prescription, you knew it to be illegal.

sucks to be you but as the rest of the folks here have said. somnamnaa

[bhoydy]

You'll be fine entering the country when you get a new passport as long as it doesn't have the same name as is blacklisted. Therefore you will have a problem. Just because the passport number has changed doesn't mean you won't get arrested and deported again. You can come back, you just have to think about how you want to come back. There are 'legal' loopholes TIT

[yaketyak]

Thanks to the OP for his elaboration.

I am NOT going to join in the condemnation of what you did, i think its a fuss about nothing. As for all the "one less in Thailand now " brigade i think they are ... no better not say it.

But i am still puzzled about one thing... even given that you were stupid enough to not carry a wad of cash with you over and above what you needed , for obvious reasons, why didn't you sort out the "payment" asap after arrest.? You have been in Thailand years so must have loads of contacts who could have got the money to where it was needed and you would have walked free. In fact you could probably have got yourself escourted to the nearest ATM anyway. And you can speak and understand Thai.!!

Can you explain why you didn't secure your own release when to do so would have been easy?

[Pushit]

You'll be fine entering the country when you get a new passport as long as it doesn't have the same name as is blacklisted. Therefore you will have a problem. Just because the passport number has changed doesn't mean you won't get arrested and deported again. You can come back, you just have to think about how you want to come back. There are 'legal' loopholes TIT

A few years ago I would have agreed, however with the OPs' full name, date of birth and photo on Immigration Dept/ASEAN/INTERPOL databases a new entry into Thailand is going to have to be awkward.

[bhoydy]

You'll be fine entering the country when you get a new passport as long as it doesn't have the same name as is blacklisted. Therefore you will have a problem. Just because the passport number has changed doesn't mean you won't get arrested and deported again. You can come back, you just have to think about how you want to come back. There are 'legal' loopholes TIT

A few years ago I would have agreed, however with the OPs' full name, date of birth and photo on Immigration Dept/ASEAN/INTERPOL databases a new entry into Thailand is going to have to be awkward.

We will have to agree to disagree there then. How many people are on that database at such a low level of crime. A name and date of birth which are the same will always call up an alert. But the same date of birth with a different name will do nothing of the sort. In addition a photo is useless unless it has been distributed to officers for a specific reason. That is what i was trying to portray in a subtle manner. Do you get it?

[mikethevigoman]

In short: I have been arrested, sentenced and deported because I bought Viagra from a Burmese pharmacy and carried it on my way back to Ranong on my visa run, therefore my single offence being importing a controlled substance without permit (small offence but long story). Now I want to submit an appeal and would like to know if anyone could give me more information about what chances I might have for it to be granted and how long it might take. I read in the immigration act that one can submit an appeal only within 48 hours after signing the document in which one acknowledges deportation, either after arriving at immigration from prison or after trying entering Thailand while blacklisted (act 22 and 36). Does that mean I can't appeal from ouside Thailand? Does anyone have any experience with that? I'm grateful for any kind of help or advice regarding this matter. Feel free to ask if you need more details.

how many were you caught with ?

[mrtoad]

In short: I have been arrested, sentenced and deported because I bought Viagra from a Burmese pharmacy and carried it on my way back to Ranong on my visa run, therefore my single offence being importing a controlled substance without permit (small offence but long story). Now I want to submit an appeal and would like to know if anyone could give me more information about what chances I might have for it to be granted and how long it might take. I read in the immigration act that one can submit an appeal only within 48 hours after signing the document in which one acknowledges deportation, either after arriving at immigration from prison or after trying entering Thailand while blacklisted (act 22 and 36). Does that mean I can't appeal from ouside Thailand? Does anyone have any experience with that? I'm grateful for any kind of help or advice regarding this matter. Feel free to ask if you need more details.

how many were you caught with ?

320 pills by the sounds of it. From my understanding, it has been quite clear that this is illegal for sometime, and considering that the OP has been in Thailand for 8 years, he really should know better.

[Pushit]

You'll be fine entering the country when you get a new passport as long as it doesn't have the same name as is blacklisted. Therefore you will have a problem. Just because the passport number has changed doesn't mean you won't get arrested and deported again. You can come back, you just have to think about how you want to come back. There are 'legal' loopholes TIT

A few years ago I would have agreed, however with the OPs' full name, date of birth and photo on Immigration Dept/ASEAN/INTERPOL databases a new entry into Thailand is going to have to be awkward.

We will have to agree to disagree there then. How many people are on that database at such a low level of crime. A name and date of birth which are the same will always call up an alert. But the same date of birth with a different name will do nothing of the sort. In addition a photo is useless unless it has been distributed to officers for a specific reason. That is what i was trying to portray in a subtle manner. Do you get it?

Oh, you mean by lying? This should end well

[jdinasia]

In short: I have been arrested, sentenced and deported because I bought Viagra from a Burmese pharmacy and carried it on my way back to Ranong on my visa run, therefore my single offence being importing a controlled substance without permit (small offence but long story). Now I want to submit an appeal and would like to know if anyone could give me more information about what chances I might have for it to be granted and how long it might take. I read in the immigration act that one can submit an appeal only within 48 hours after signing the document in which one acknowledges deportation, either after arriving at immigration from prison or after trying entering Thailand while blacklisted (act 22 and 36). Does that mean I can't appeal from ouside Thailand? Does anyone have any experience with that? I'm grateful for any kind of help or advice regarding this matter. Feel free to ask if you need more details.

how many were you caught with ?

320 pills by the sounds of it. From my understanding, it has been quite clear that this is illegal for sometime, and considering that the OP has been in Thailand for 8 years, he really should know better.

imho the OP was lucky not to get into more trouble than he did! He admits to planning on distributing the drug to other people. Sounds like it is time to just move on. Perhaps Cambodia!

[bhoydy]

You'll be fine entering the country when you get a new passport as long as it doesn't have the same name as is blacklisted. Therefore you will have a problem. Just because the passport number has changed doesn't mean you won't get arrested and deported again. You can come back, you just have to think about how you want to come back. There are 'legal' loopholes TIT

A few years ago I would have agreed, however with the OPs' full name, date of birth and photo on Immigration Dept/ASEAN/INTERPOL databases a new entry into Thailand is going to have to be awkward.

We will have to agree to disagree there then. How many people are on that database at such a low level of crime. A name and date of birth which are the same will always call up an alert. But the same date of birth with a different name will do nothing of the sort. In addition a photo is useless unless it has been distributed to officers for a specific reason. That is what i was trying to portray in a subtle manner. Do you get it?

Oh, you mean by lying? This should end well

Please explain to me, anywhere in that process where a lie would be committed. Thank you.

[jdinasia]

You'll be fine entering the country when you get a new passport as long as it doesn't have the same name as is blacklisted. Therefore you will have a problem. Just because the passport number has changed doesn't mean you won't get arrested and deported again. You can come back, you just have to think about how you want to come back. There are 'legal' loopholes TIT

A few years ago I would have agreed, however with the OPs' full name, date of birth and photo on Immigration Dept/ASEAN/INTERPOL databases a new entry into Thailand is going to have to be awkward.

We will have to agree to disagree there then. How many people are on that database at such a low level of crime. A name and date of birth which are the same will always call up an alert. But the same date of birth with a different name will do nothing of the sort. In addition a photo is useless unless it has been distributed to officers for a specific reason. That is what i was trying to portray in a subtle manner. Do you get it?

Oh, you mean by lying? This should end well

Please explain to me, anywhere in that process where a lie would be committed. Thank you.

To knowingly enter a country from which you have been banned/blacklisted would obviously be illegal, even if you obtained ALL the travel documents legally.

[bhoydy]

You'll be fine entering the country when you get a new passport as long as it doesn't have the same name as is blacklisted. Therefore you will have a problem. Just because the passport number has changed doesn't mean you won't get arrested and deported again. You can come back, you just have to think about how you want to come back. There are 'legal' loopholes TIT

A few years ago I would have agreed, however with the OPs' full name, date of birth and photo on Immigration Dept/ASEAN/INTERPOL databases a new entry into Thailand is going to have to be awkward.

We will have to agree to disagree there then. How many people are on that database at such a low level of crime. A name and date of birth which are the same will always call up an alert. But the same date of birth with a different name will do nothing of the sort. In addition a photo is useless unless it has been distributed to officers for a specific reason. That is what i was trying to portray in a subtle manner. Do you get it?

Oh, you mean by lying? This should end well

Please explain to me, anywhere in that process where a lie would be committed. Thank you.

To knowingly enter a country from which you have been banned/blacklisted would obviously be illegal, even if you obtained ALL the travel documents legally.

Correct, but you would not be lying in the process.

[moe666]

Do you really need 320 viagra pills to have a good time, if you do there could be a real health problem that needs to be corrected.

[newbie4444]

No one gave you the correct reply. Here it is:

1 get a very good Thai lawyer. One who has immigration as his specialty there are some and they are not all thieves. Search around Google. There are many who handle things for foreigners around Silom in Banking, Construction , Investment etc. some of them handle immigration cases too.

2 register your case at The Administrative Court on Sathorn. This is a court that deals with how the law was administered and not what you did. What they do is see if they have applied the law correctly. They are fair. Expect to wait sometime before they hear the case. You have 2 years to register a case against any government decision there after which you have no chance.

3 That's it. Expect to pay a lot of money for an a class lawyer as this is cold be a hard case and he would not be spending your money on bribes. Do not pay bribes they invariably go wrong either you get nothing or they ask for more later. I feel you have to go on how the law was administered as one other factor here is you have no ties to the country and they do not like viagra takers like yourself. However if they see you have been done up by the cops they can undo it. They are also quite honest in there.. Remeber 2 years that's it.

4 i am not prepared to go further with this matter. Good luck and THIS IS THE CORRECT ANSWER!!!

[Prakanong]

You'll be fine entering the country when you get a new passport as long as it doesn't have the same name as is blacklisted. Therefore you will have a problem. Just because the passport number has changed doesn't mean you won't get arrested and deported again. You can come back, you just have to think about how you want to come back. There are 'legal' loopholes TIT

A few years ago I would have agreed, however with the OPs' full name, date of birth and photo on Immigration Dept/ASEAN/INTERPOL databases a new entry into Thailand is going to have to be awkward.

Deed poll change of name - others who are PNG have done this including one prominent business owner who advertises his wares on various boards as well as posts to push his produce (not on this board I notice though)

[EmptyMind]

Oh come one, You tried to smuggle how many pills over a border and then you got caught and got whatever the punishment was and now you think that just because that this is Thailand that its still OK and that you will find a way to make it all go away and they will decide that you are not really that bad for breaking their laws and that you will be allowed back to do it all over again .......

The lack of punctuation was deliberate BTW.

I don't get it, Why do people think that in Thailand its OK to break the law and if you make enough fuss all will be forgiven and forgotten ?

Uff

This part was the Edit: If you needed that much Viagra, Why on earth didnt you just buy it in Thailand ?

Makes no sense to me, Sorry.

Edited April 8, 2008 by EmptyMind

[siam2007]

a couple of months ago, there was a small AD in the Bangkok-Post every day for several weeks. I kept that because I thought, "u never know, maybe one day I will need that".

so this little ad is still right here in my desk. maybe it helps.

it goes like that:

"best connection with the law and immigration - 24 hours - CALL JACK: number 085-9101818. Fluent in english, fair price. we also protect intellectual property"

so, maybe u can try to contact that guy.....

I hope its not forbidden to post the number, if so, u can send me a PM, but I dont know when I will have the chance to log in again as I am leaving the kingdom for my "Songkhran? lets-get-outta-here" holiday in less than 4 hours.....

hmmmm..... I guess I will send this message as a PM to the OP too..... makes more sense probably

[britmaveric]

320 pills, well they tagged you with distributing. This is far worse than having it for your own use. It's hard to not wonder - why you would take such a risk? My only assumption, you must have done this many times before and got away with it.

Chok Dee with blacklist appeal - think you might need it.

[hanuman19]

320 pills, well they tagged you with distributing. This is far worse than having it for your own use. It's hard to not wonder - why you would take such a risk? My only assumption, you must have done this many times before and got away with it.

Chok Dee with blacklist appeal - think you might need it.

Correct, absolutely correct, went to the Pharma shop today - they told me that:

1) Viagra here is sold in blister pack 4 Viagra in one pack

2) The price (and now it comes) is Baht 1,600.00 per packI Now either he had 320 strips with 4 tablets, that would have been baht 512,000.00 of smuggled goods or if only 320 tablets - still 128,000 baht of contraband. Remember, he did not say it was single tablets or single strips...

3) He was here for 8 years, says to speak, read and write Thai...

Now in either case it is not just a misdemeanor but comes to a crime, thus the arrest and the PNG status.

A big som nam nar to him!