Us Embassy Is Enough To Make A Grown Man Cry!

[isabelle17]

This is so ridiculous. I have been wanting my boyfriend to come to the US (even if for just short time) with me but he cannot get even a tourist visa. Is it just US that has such strict visa regulations, or does it seem to be everywhere? How about canada?

[britmaveric]

Not hard to get a visa if you follow the requirements. Obviously no one here knows why the lad was denied, and its rather plain that he couldnt do what was expected of him by the current yank visa rules. It's a shame, but lets face it too may people in the past have taken advantage of lenient system and now when its tough it makes it harder on everyone.

Edited April 11, 2008 by britmaveric

[cophen]

Is a 60 year old a 'lad'?

[PeaceBlondie]

The real secret to this is to use a professional. Yes you can fill out all the forms yourself, its a bit tricky but possible. What the lawyers know how to do is to create a package of documents that's easy and streamlined for the Embassy people to through. The right documents, the right order, and the right things to say and put down. Imagine you were an embassy official and you've been going through day after day of monotonous paperwork for months. Having to argue with people, and tell them what they have and don't have all the time, when an application comes through that's properly formatted, filled out, and hits all the criteria from the get-go. It's easy for them, and that fact makes them look favorably on your application to start.

My advice is to use an immigration lawyer if you want results.

Excellent advice, because the immigration lawyer knows how the examining officers think, what they need, etc. These matters are far too difficult and the procedures too tangled, to do it yourself. The same may apply to the fancier Thai applications, with less predictability. Amateurs (most applicants) say things they do not need to say, evade important interview questions, use body language that insults the officer, etc.

[IMA_FARANG]

I looked on in bewilderment today at the US Embassy as a grown man in his 60's started to literally cry and sob about not being able to bring his wife to America. At first I couldn't see him because of were I was sitting, close to window C not far from the cashier's window, Then I looked around one of the support pillars to see the couple. It was a older white man in his 60's balding on top with what was left of his grayish brown hair tied back in a pony tail, standing with a upcountry looking woman in what I would guess to be her 30's. He went on about how he served his country for 25 years in the Army, how he never was on welfare, how he never took anything from his govt, and how if he had money he would have been able to take her to America 4 years ago. The guy behind the counter seemed sympathetic but apparently could not help this man as he sobbed and recounted this miserable tail of how he tried so hard for this visa only to be denied.... Sad, they looked appropriate together, they seemed to have that look like they had been together for a long time

Damm, is it that F'ed Up??? is this what I have to look forward too when I wanna bring my wife to the States eventually? I mean he was balling louder than I heard a man cry for a very long time.

Oh Dear.......but you know I bet they have heard every sad sob-story in the book. I have no idea if what he said was true or not. but I know for certain that much of the stuff you hear in U.S. embessies around the world is just not true. I was once in the Embessy in Greece where a woman was telling her sad story about how her U.S. passport had been burned in a "fire" in her Athens apartment, and she needed a replacement. All she had was a charred blue piece of paper. It was clearly a blue piece of dyed cardboard. She "couldn't remember" the original passport number, she had no birth certificate, no proof of ever being born in the U.S., and there was no record of her ever having a valid U.S. passport before. Still she wanted a U.S. passport issued to her (Free of charge by the way, as she also lost all her money in the "fire"). There was no police record of any "fire" at the address she claimed was her apartment, she had no proof that she ever lived at that apartment or had ever rented that aprtment, and couldn't remember the landlord's name that she supposedly rented the apartment from (she said it was her friend who actually had rented it, she was just staying with her friend).

Do you think she got the passport....not on your life. And this was 15 years ago....before a lot of the current security checks were even thought of.

Besides, as she later admitted, she was actually Danish...she had come to Athens to work in a "nightclub"...the owner had taken all her money and thrown her out of the club when she wouldn't sleep with him. So she had come to the U.S. embessy to try and get a U.S. passport.

After you've worked for the U.S. State department in a Embessy/Consulate for a few years, you've heard hundreds of sad stories. It's easy just to tune them out.

[Dakhar]

The real secret to this is to use a professional. Yes you can fill out all the forms yourself, its a bit tricky but possible. What the lawyers know how to do is to create a package of documents that's easy and streamlined for the Embassy people to through. The right documents, the right order, and the right things to say and put down. Imagine you were an embassy official and you've been going through day after day of monotonous paperwork for months. Having to argue with people, and tell them what they have and don't have all the time, when an application comes through that's properly formatted, filled out, and hits all the criteria from the get-go. It's easy for them, and that fact makes them look favorably on your application to start.

My advice is to use an immigration lawyer if you want results.

Excellent advice, because the immigration lawyer knows how the examining officers think, what they need, etc. These matters are far too difficult and the procedures too tangled, to do it yourself. The same may apply to the fancier Thai applications, with less predictability. Amateurs (most applicants) say things they do not need to say, evade important interview questions, use body language that insults the officer, etc.

Folks in the past I used a DYI green card application package/kit

http://www.us-immigration.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21

The folks at immigration were very impressed & thought the documents were prepared by a lawyer. We saved a bundle on lawyer fees. Lets face it, it comes down to filling out forms & all that information on those forms will be provided by you. The real issue is, what forms do you need, and how do you fill them out. Those kits give you the forms & sample documents guideing you on how to fill them out. You can fill out the forms on your computer and print them out. I kid you not, these kits do a very professional job...

Sadly, we got the green card, my wife was in the states long enough to get citizenship, but she never did. We have since moved to Thailand, and now all of that work, & application fees is a total waste. We will have to do it all again. That is assumeing the folks in the US will even allow us to. Frankly, I don't think they deserve my tax dollars in the first place.

Good luck to us all

[IMA_FARANG]

I looked on in bewilderment today at the US Embassy as a grown man in his 60's started to literally cry and sob about not being able to bring his wife to America. At first I couldn't see him because of were I was sitting, close to window C not far from the cashier's window, Then I looked around one of the support pillars to see the couple. It was a older white man in his 60's balding on top with what was left of his grayish brown hair tied back in a pony tail, standing with a upcountry looking woman in what I would guess to be her 30's. He went on about how he served his country for 25 years in the Army, how he never was on welfare, how he never took anything from his govt, and how if he had money he would have been able to take her to America 4 years ago. The guy behind the counter seemed sympathetic but apparently could not help this man as he sobbed and recounted this miserable tail of how he tried so hard for this visa only to be denied.... Sad, they looked appropriate together, they seemed to have that look like they had been together for a long time

Damm, is it that F'ed Up??? is this what I have to look forward too when I wanna bring my wife to the States eventually? I mean he was balling louder than I heard a man cry for a very long time.

I thought I'd point out some of the problems with this guys story.

1. He went on about how he served his country for 25 years in the Army

In which case he should have had a honorable discharge certificate....did he?

Additionally if he served 25 years he would be recieveng a monthly retirement check from the Army...which is easy to trace. So the government knew exactly how much he earned from his retirement didn't they.

2. Was there a marriage certificate shown? Any proof of marriage.

3. Could he provide proof that he could support her once they were in the U.S? Probably not.

4. Could he provide names of relatives or someone in the U.S. to verify his claims? To act as his/her sponsor?

You see what I mean

[Gary A]

I can listen to all the lies, scams , schemes, excuses, etc., BUT why do I fall between the cracks? I have been legally married for a number of years. We file a joint US income tax return. I have a condo in Jomtien. My wife has a home and four properties in Loei. We have a car, truck, motorcycle and farm equipment. Quite frankly, I'd rather take a beating than a trip to the US, but since both my parents are 86 years old an emergency can happen at any time. Why am I in the same category as someone trying to import a sex worker? Why won't anyone at the embassy talk to me?

[britmaveric]

^Every one is treated equally the same!

[a2396]

Not hard to get a visa if you follow the requirements. Obviously no one here knows why the lad was denied, and its rather plain that he couldnt do what was expected of him by the current yank visa rules. It's a shame, but lets face it too may people in the past have taken advantage of lenient system and now when its tough it makes it harder on everyone.

The real problem is with the illegals, but I agree they have probably let to many relatives of applicants get status in the past (aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, mothers. fathers, etc. Most of them illiterate, non-skilled, etc, collecting benefits & straining the health care system, etc, etc. Now, there are how many million illegals, many who are relatives of those with legal status, so we have a powerful political force, which the politicians of both parties are catering to. In the meantime, those applicants who are educated and may have job skills of benefit to the country, get the "run around" from the INS. Soon, you will be seeing the USA becoming bi-cultural, with Spanish given equal parity with English, as French is in Canada.

[haroldc]

The US government talks about "family values", but its immigration policy makes no allowances for keeping families together.

I'm a US citizen, 60 years old, and have lived in Thailand for 20 years. I am married to a Thai and have 3 children ages 2-16, all of whom are dual US/Thai citizens. I would like them to go to school in the USA, but this would mean separating our family because I cannot bring my wife with us.

I have to show an income of $31,000 per year for a family of 5. I make about $25,000 in Thailand, but going back to the USA at my age all I could expect to get is minimum wage, between $12-16,000 depending on the state.

Could we live on that? In a semi-rural town with a small rented house or trailer, a vegetable garden, a few chickens... of course we could. My children could get a free English-language education, go to a state college, etc.

But it will never happen because the US government has told me that my wife will never be able get a visa.

[Spaniel]

I can relate to this story. I went through the process a little over a year ago and all went well for my wife and I but it is a complecated process that requires attention to detail. But if you think that getting them to the US is complecated wait until the green card application. It is worse.

As I understand it the people at the embassy only care about the ligitimacy of the relationship and the sponsers ability to support the benifactor. When we went for the interview they were very nice and even personable, joking with my wife in Thai.

I am currently assisting a friend to get his girlfriend over and she has an interview on June 6 I understand that the system is completly overwhelmed because of the extreme number of applications that were submitted last year.

Personally, I think it sucks that there are 12 million illegal mexicans in the US and we have to go through all this to bring a few thai girls over. And another thing I think if your a vet it should be an automatic approval. All this crap about fighting for freedom...freedom for what?

I disagree. Why should a Vet get automatic approval? I know, patriotic service to his country etc. (I'm also a vet) but I dont think it would be a good idea.

[Naam]

The US government talks about "family values", but its immigration policy makes no allowances for keeping families together.

I'm a US citizen, 60 years old, and have lived in Thailand for 20 years. I am married to a Thai and have 3 children ages 2-16, all of whom are dual US/Thai citizens. I would like them to go to school in the USA, but this would mean separating our family because I cannot bring my wife with us.

I have to show an income of $31,000 per year for a family of 5. I make about $25,000 in Thailand, but going back to the USA at my age all I could expect to get is minimum wage, between $12-16,000 depending on the state.

Could we live on that? In a semi-rural town with a small rented house or trailer, a vegetable garden, a few chickens... of course we could. My children could get a free English-language education, go to a state college, etc.

But it will never happen because the US government has told me that my wife will never be able get a visa.

unbelievable cruel

[a2396]

I can relate to this story. I went through the process a little over a year ago and all went well for my wife and I but it is a complecated process that requires attention to detail. But if you think that getting them to the US is complecated wait until the green card application. It is worse.

As I understand it the people at the embassy only care about the ligitimacy of the relationship and the sponsers ability to support the benifactor. When we went for the interview they were very nice and even personable, joking with my wife in Thai.

I am currently assisting a friend to get his girlfriend over and she has an interview on June 6 I understand that the system is completly overwhelmed because of the extreme number of applications that were submitted last year.

Personally, I think it sucks that there are 12 million illegal mexicans in the US and we have to go through all this to bring a few thai girls over. And another thing I think if your a vet it should be an automatic approval. All this crap about fighting for freedom...freedom for what?

I disagree. Why should a Vet get automatic approval? I know, patriotic service to his country etc. (I'm also a vet) but I dont think it would be a good idea.

Automatic approval for anyone is a nonsense idea and will never happen. The bottom line in the OP's story appears to be that the guy did not have adequate money. Living in USA as a married couple with inadequate money & probably no health care is no picnic. He is likely better off in Thailand.

[howtoescape]

When people cheer from the gallery in support of laws limiting immigration or laws strengthening 'immigration security' - Then this is the result.

Sadly this is not an uncommon situation and will continue to be common so long as the US (and other governments) deal with the symptoms of today's problems rather than the causes.

Someone being denied the right to bring their spouse to his/her country of birth and people wishing to put an end to uncontrolled mass immigration of cheap labour are not interconnected...... but nice try.

[Theyreallrubbish]

I can relate to this story. I went through the process a little over a year ago and all went well for my wife and I but it is a complecated process that requires attention to detail. But if you think that getting them to the US is complecated wait until the green card application. It is worse.

As I understand it the people at the embassy only care about the ligitimacy of the relationship and the sponsers ability to support the benifactor. When we went for the interview they were very nice and even personable, joking with my wife in Thai.

I am currently assisting a friend to get his girlfriend over and she has an interview on June 6 I understand that the system is completly overwhelmed because of the extreme number of applications that were submitted last year.

Personally, I think it sucks that there are 12 million illegal mexicans in the US and we have to go through all this to bring a few thai girls over. And another thing I think if your a vet it should be an automatic approval. All this crap about fighting for freedom...freedom for what?

I disagree. Why should a Vet get automatic approval? I know, patriotic service to his country etc. (I'm also a vet) but I dont think it would be a good idea.

Less than one in ten army personnel see combat even during times of war. Should someone get special privileges and more rights than their fellow citizens for doing laundry at the naval base in San Diego for 2 years?

[Beardog]

I did an online search of several articles on Why it is impossible(or next to it) to get a visa (other than visitors visa) To the U.S. These links will point out that (unless your Mexican & going the walk down the freeway illegal stunt) why you are most likely a bust on getting a visa. Question of wealth # 1 You have to have bucks & she has basically got to be a land owner & prove she has something to go back to in Thailand. I tried several years back & gave up. The more ground I made- The ,more they put more stipulations on me getting a visa.

These links should provide some good info & the only poster that loves to get into pissing matches that knows EVERYTHING in the Visa forum Name of flamer withheld can read this too. And if you do decide to post a flame the last flame you posted was satisfied & still no luck.

It is possible(especially if you are a cop or a politician Or possibly grease the right palms)To maybe get in . You do get different treatment pending on who you are. Have heard the same from people in England as well-which has been making it increasingly harder for their citizens to get a visa(other than the tourist visa)

As Gary A pointed out - It is a joke & a tragedy the way the U.S. treats people who try to comply with the legal system in requards to getting a visa for a Thai girl. and I might add they make no bones about telling you this(if you go to any US office inside the U.S.) That Thailand is ranked the lowest welcome rate for foreign visas given out as Thai people usually skip on the legalities & stay illegally. Better to be Mexican & go the illegal route!

So if your wondering why the guy was whimpering, must have been the 70+ pages- not meeting 1 or more of the criteria, a backlog that goes on forever & the agent being in a pissy mood that day.

Edit: But on the upside both of them & all people that had or are having problems are far better off here anyway. A recession is not when you want to try to put your program together & Thailand is a hel_l of a lot cheaper(except for land purchases)

And the hurdles are having the necessary funds in the bank is about the toughest part of the Being married here-If you feel it is important.

Edited April 12, 2008 by Beardog

[Dakhar]

The US government talks about "family values", but its immigration policy makes no allowances for keeping families together.

I'm a US citizen, 60 years old, and have lived in Thailand for 20 years. I am married to a Thai and have 3 children ages 2-16, all of whom are dual US/Thai citizens. I would like them to go to school in the USA, but this would mean separating our family because I cannot bring my wife with us.

I have to show an income of $31,000 per year for a family of 5. I make about $25,000 in Thailand, but going back to the USA at my age all I could expect to get is minimum wage, between $12-16,000 depending on the state.

Could we live on that? In a semi-rural town with a small rented house or trailer, a vegetable garden, a few chickens... of course we could. My children could get a free English-language education, go to a state college, etc.

But it will never happen because the US government has told me that my wife will never be able get a visa.

unbelievable cruel

Could we live on that?

Could you live on that...? No.... health insurance alone would absorb that much money. But lets say you did without. You could not rent a place that could house a family as large as yours for that amount of money. Even if you could, which you could not, the property would have to be large enough to be able to garden... large yard, large house/trailer for under 400 a month, doubtful.

Bottom line, America is expensive. I scraped by earning 48K rigt out of college, wife, no kids, used 10 yr old car, 12K debt credit card debt, 20K debt in student loans.

For me, I would rather be in America... but life sounds like it is far from a bed of roses over there now. Economy gone to pot, jobs are insecure, costs of education out the roof, fuel costs out the roof... war mongers in charge, and it looks like the Bush legacy will live on. America has lost a lot of its luster.

Here, life is not such a struggle, and for a person earning 25K a year here, you should be doing OK. I know that is not the point, you should have the right to do as you please when it comes to brining ligitimate family members back home & I agree. I am just pointing out that the glass is half full.

[PeaceBlondie]

I returned to the USA, as a trained accountant, to a cheap area, and I could only find jobs at $7.50 per hour. It is a very expensive country, and the job scene now looks worse than teaching English in Thailand.

[jstumbo]

The US government talks about "family values", but its immigration policy makes no allowances for keeping families together.

I'm a US citizen, 60 years old, and have lived in Thailand for 20 years. I am married to a Thai and have 3 children ages 2-16, all of whom are dual US/Thai citizens. I would like them to go to school in the USA, but this would mean separating our family because I cannot bring my wife with us.

I have to show an income of $31,000 per year for a family of 5. I make about $25,000 in Thailand, but going back to the USA at my age all I could expect to get is minimum wage, between $12-16,000 depending on the state.

Could we live on that? In a semi-rural town with a small rented house or trailer, a vegetable garden, a few chickens... of course we could. My children could get a free English-language education, go to a state college, etc.

But it will never happen because the US government has told me that my wife will never be able get a visa.

Do you have any family or friends in the US that could sign an affidavit of support for your wife's visa?

[pumpuiman]

The fiance visa was a real pain to put together, but I had done a lot of research and had more than enough evidence to provide. I made sure everything was neatly filed and in the proper order (there is a proper order).

I was still very nervous....and then read about the requirement that ECCO certified paper clips (no kidding) must be used.....no staples. I had no idea what a ECCO certified paper clip was.

I decided to get a lawyer.

I paid 3000 dollars for them to make copies of the work I had already done, and attach an official looking cover letter with the firms name boldly displayed.

We got the visa first try.

I try to tell myself that the cover letter helped (so I don't think about blowing 3 grand on 3 dollars worth of copies)

The lawyer never heard of an ECCO certified paper clip either.....then I noticed the box on the secretary's desk.....ECCO BRAND PAPER CLIPS!!

It truly is a requirement. Whether or not it is enforced, I don't know....

But it could drive anyone to tears

[haroldc]

The US government talks about "family values", but its immigration policy makes no allowances for keeping families together.

I'm a US citizen, 60 years old, and have lived in Thailand for 20 years. I am married to a Thai and have 3 children ages 2-16, all of whom are dual US/Thai citizens. I would like them to go to school in the USA, but this would mean separating our family because I cannot bring my wife with us.

I have to show an income of $31,000 per year for a family of 5. I make about $25,000 in Thailand, but going back to the USA at my age all I could expect to get is minimum wage, between $12-16,000 depending on the state.

Could we live on that? In a semi-rural town with a small rented house or trailer, a vegetable garden, a few chickens... of course we could. My children could get a free English-language education, go to a state college, etc.

But it will never happen because the US government has told me that my wife will never be able get a visa.

Do you have any family or friends in the US that could sign an affidavit of support for your wife's visa?

I have one sister, but she's partially disabled and her Social Security income isn't sufficient. She's gotten me all the information about costs where she is, even found a 3-room house on 1/2 acre outside her town that we could rent for $250/month. We worked out a detailed budget and know that we could get by on a minimum wage income - life wouldn't be easy, but we could do it. The US government won't give us the opportunity to explain how we could live. No proof of $31K income, no visa. End of story.

The one time I was actually able to get an Immigration official on the telephone, he said that he didn't understand what the problem was. I and my children could go the USA at any time. I pointed out that, without their mother, it would be impossible for me to hold a job and take care of 3 children, let alone send even a pittance to Thailand for my wife. His response was that my wife wasn't an American, so what happened to her wasn't his concern. And, by the way, didn't I know that I could apply for welfare as soon as I and the children arrived! So much for immigration policy designed to prevent adding to the cost of public assistance...

[a2396]

The fiance visa was a real pain to put together, but I had done a lot of research and had more than enough evidence to provide. I made sure everything was neatly filed and in the proper order (there is a proper order).

I was still very nervous....and then read about the requirement that ECCO certified paper clips (no kidding) must be used.....no staples. I had no idea what a ECCO certified paper clip was.

I decided to get a lawyer.

I paid 3000 dollars for them to make copies of the work I had already done, and attach an official looking cover letter with the firms name boldly displayed.

We got the visa first try.

I try to tell myself that the cover letter helped (so I don't think about blowing 3 grand on 3 dollars worth of copies)

The lawyer never heard of an ECCO certified paper clip either.....then I noticed the box on the secretary's desk.....ECCO BRAND PAPER CLIPS!!

It truly is a requirement. Whether or not it is enforced, I don't know....

But it could drive anyone to tears

So, don't keep us in suspense. What's an ECCO paper clip? A brand name I suppose. Can you really tell the difference?

[Naam]

But it could drive anyone to tears

<deleted> all heartless government officials and <deleted> all heartless regulations!

[jstumbo]

The fiance visa was a real pain to put together, but I had done a lot of research and had more than enough evidence to provide. I made sure everything was neatly filed and in the proper order (there is a proper order).

...

I decided to get a lawyer.

I paid 3000 dollars for them to make copies of the work I had already done, and attach an official looking cover letter with the firms name boldly displayed.

We got the visa first try.

I try to tell myself that the cover letter helped (so I don't think about blowing 3 grand on 3 dollars worth of copies)

...

I handled my fiancee's (now wife) fiancee visa on my own. It was not that difficult. Just provide the appropriate forms. It was really a piece of cake. If you can meet the requirements and can show more than a single trip to Thailand where you met your wife and spent 2 weeks with her and decided to get married, then it should not be that difficult. We had all sorts of pictures and emails, and phone records and letters from family members for her interview, and they did not ask to see any of them. Probably helped that my wife was from China and spoke fluent english. There may be a preconcieved perception on the part of immigration as to what a fiance or wife did in Thailand to learn English and meet a foreigner.

[MengWan]

I think one could suggest to this old chap to become Mexican first, then to go with the others through the border with his wife ...

When legality is impossible, life takes precedence !

[Mike45]

The fiancé visa was a real pain to put together, but I had done a lot of research and had more than enough evidence to provide. I made sure everything was neatly filed and in the proper order (there is a proper order).

I was still very nervous....and then read about the requirement that ECCO certified paper clips (no kidding) must be used.....no staples. I had no idea what a ECCO certified paper clip was.

I decided to get a lawyer.

I paid 3000 dollars for them to make copies of the work I had already done, and attach an official looking cover letter with the firms name boldly displayed.

We got the visa first try.

I try to tell myself that the cover letter helped (so I don't think about blowing 3 grand on 3 dollars worth of copies)

The lawyer never heard of an ECCO certified paper clip either.....then I noticed the box on the secretary's desk.....ECCO BRAND PAPER CLIPS!!

It truly is a requirement. Whether or not it is enforced, I don't know....

But it could drive anyone to tears

So, don't keep us in suspense. What's an ECCO paper clip? A brand name I suppose. Can you really tell the difference?

Yes it is a brand name. It is one of those large black clips that hold together a stack of paper. When i put my wifes fiancé application together we used them. I found mine at Staples the office supply chain store here in the USA. We got her visa in just over 90 days from application. We did it our selves.

[Dakhar]

I think one could suggest to this old chap to become Mexican first, then to go with the others through the border with his wife ...

When legality is impossible, life takes precedence !

So true so true. I lived in El Paso, and it was very common to go to a mall parking lot and see Mexico license plates on the cars than Texas plates. The border is not a border really at all. A lot of the imigration officers are of Mixacan decent themselves and sympathize with the Mixicans and simply do not want to arrest their cousins or in-laws.

My wife could not get a job in El Paso because she could not speak Spanish, even with an MA from America in Educational Technology.... nothing. The only reason I was able to get a job there was because my degree is extremely rare, and few non natives to that area want to work in El Paso to begin with. So there was no competition, so they hired me with little options.

But as my wife and I went through the immigration process, it sure did seem to me, that they punish those that try to do everything through the letigitimate channels & let the illegals in without any problems.

[Dakhar]

Wanted to re-post, in case folks missed this:

Folks in the past I used a DYI green card application package/kit

http://www.us-immigration.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21

The folks at immigration were very impressed & thought the documents were prepared by a lawyer. We saved a bundle on lawyer fees. Lets face it, it comes down to filling out forms & all that information on those forms will be provided by you. The real issue is, what forms do you need, and how do you fill them out. Those kits give you the forms & sample documents guideing you on how to fill them out. You can fill out the forms on your computer and print them out. I kid you not, these kits do a very professional job...

Sadly, we got the green card, my wife was in the states long enough to get citizenship, but she never did. We have since moved to Thailand, and now all of that work, & application fees is a total waste. We will have to do it all again. That is assumeing the folks in the US will even allow us to. Frankly, I don't think they deserve my tax dollars in the first place.

Good luck to us all

[Tinkelbell]

quoted......

"Soon, you will be seeing the USA becoming bi-cultural, with Spanish given equal parity with English, as French is in Canada. "

...............................................................

Sad to say it's already happened in some States like California, Florida, New york etc. As years pass by, more and more States are becoming bi-cultural.

Last year, two Spanish family names finally make it to the top ten most popular surnames in the USA.

Top ten:

1. Smith

2. Johnson

3. William

4. Brown

5. James

6. Miller

7. Davis

8. Garcia

9. Rodriguez

10. Wilson

In the past two decades, most babies born inside the hospitals in these three big states : CA, FL, NY more than 70% bear the Spanish surnames.