Firefox Really Better Than Ie?

[junkofdavid2]

Techies and people who consider themselves "in the know" about internet and computers always recommend Firefox and even poke fun at the "crappy" IE.

As someone who always wants the best, I have also been a Firefox "convert" for more than a year.

However, increasingly frequently, I come across a lot of websites which simply do NOT work with my Firefox, but work fine with IE.

(Whenever a site doesn't load properly with my default Firefox, I switch to IE and voila! The site works.)

Yet still, IE is referred to by tech people and hardcore surfers as "crappy" and Firefox as great.

Am I missing something here???

[Gary A]

Techies and people who consider themselves "in the know" about internet and computers always recommend Firefox and even poke fun at the "crappy" IE.

As someone who always wants the best, I have also been a Firefox "convert" for more than a year.

However, increasingly frequently, I come across a lot of websites which simply do NOT work with my Firefox, but work fine with IE.

(Whenever a site doesn't load properly with my default Firefox, I switch to IE and voila! The site works.)

Yet still, IE is referred to by tech people and hardcore surfers as "crappy" and Firefox as great.

Am I missing something here???

Yes you are missing something. You are missing an add on called IE Tab. It allows Firefox to act like IE and to open those web sites exactly as IE opens them. Google IE Tab, download it and install it. You'll be happy.

Edited April 12, 2008 by Gary A

[jonniebkk]

I think in terms of functionality, they are both pretty much the same. I have both loaded on my machine and sue them both. I tend to use IE7 when I am visiting MSFT associated sites like Live Mail as it is more integrated with IE.

However, for general surfing, I prefer Firefox. I think it is generally faster (pages seem to load much faster) and I like the way its built-in password manager operates. Seems much more customizable than IE's way of handling password. Some of the Firefox add-ons like Add Block Plus are really great too. The download managers add-ons for Firefox are many and great too.

[nikster]

It's pretty simple. Lots of online malware can install itself into IE with no user interaction. E.g. you visit some website that you should not have, or one that was hacked (the website that is), and booom, you have a virus. On Firefox, most of these don't work.

Other than that I just hate the inefficient IE interface - it's improved with IE 7 but it's still way more complicated and seems to be made for people who have one window open at a time. Not the way I work. That's a personal preference though.

If you find yourself using lots of IE-only websites - which are becoming increasingly rare outside of the Microsoft-owned web pages - then I agree IE is a better choice for you.

Techies of course hate those IE-only websites because they know a thing or two about web design and know that there is only one reason a website would be IE only: Incompetence on part of the designers.

Well except for Microsoft's own web-pages which naturally want to promote IE only features (to the detriment of everyone else but OK - it's their baby, they want to push it).

[junkofdavid2]

If you find yourself using lots of IE-only websites - which are becoming increasingly rare outside of the Microsoft-owned web pages - then I agree IE is a better choice for you.

Techies of course hate those IE-only websites because they know a thing or two about web design and know that there is only one reason a website would be IE only: Incompetence on part of the designers.

Well except for Microsoft's own web-pages which naturally want to promote IE only features (to the detriment of everyone else but OK - it's their baby, they want to push it).

I seem to be having this problem on useful Thai websites... such as websites for used-cars and also websites with useful info about price comparison of electronics or whatever.

These are usually amateur type websites I admit (maybe made by students or hobbyists or enthusiasts of the items being reviewed), but oftentimes it's these "ordinary" Thais who know how or where to get the best deals.

However, your point regarding the vulnerability of IE to malware is a very important point. I didn't know that before.

Edited April 12, 2008 by junkofdavid2

[sjaak327]

The mallware problem has almost vanished when using IE7 in combination with Vista, as it is more sandboxed then IE7 running under XP. I prefer IE7, but use firefox as well, I run a multitude of operating systems, on Windows I run IE7 almost allways (except when I need to run a site that won't work under IE7), on Leopard and Linux Firefox is king.

[sniffdog]

I guess it's like Vista against XP, PC against Mac, Black against White ......

[Naam]

IE is referred to by tech people and hardcore surfers as "crappy"

you bet your sweet @ss on that!

[slackula]

As someone who always wants the best..

Buy a Mac.

[jonniebkk]

It's pretty simple. Lots of online malware can install itself into IE with no user interaction.

I don't think this is true...not if the user has configured IE7's internet properties settings properly. In addition, it comes with built-in cookie monitor and phishing filters. Combine this with a firewall (Window's Firewall or Zone Alarm for example), an anti-virus program (AVG, Avast, Avira), and one of the many free spyware monitors (i.e., WinDefender, Spybot, or Adaware) and you have a perfectly safe and secure system.

That is my set-up and I haven't had a virus or malware problem in years.

[nikster]

It's pretty simple. Lots of online malware can install itself into IE with no user interaction.

I don't think this is true...not if the user has configured IE7's internet properties settings properly. In addition, it comes with built-in cookie monitor and phishing filters. Combine this with a firewall (Window's Firewall or Zone Alarm for example), an anti-virus program (AVG, Avast, Avira), and one of the many free spyware monitors (i.e., WinDefender, Spybot, or Adaware) and you have a perfectly safe and secure system.

No. That's a common belief that nevertheless is false. I will try to explain below, but it helps to understand how malware works.

Malware and infected websites are pretty rare if you don't seek them out - e.g. you are unlikely to encounter it unless you go to pr0n and warez sites. They do exist though, and I for one do not want my browser to get infected with them when it happens. I know I can avoid pr0n and warez sites, but the situation is a bit more difficult when it comes to completely regular sites which have been hacked, unbeknownst to the owner of the site.

I am not going to go into theoretical exploits - that would lead too far, and as far as I am concerned is just not as interesting as actual exploits out in the wild. There are two kinds.

Most existing malware spreads via emails and simple .exe attachments. Has nothing to do with IE, though if you use Outlook in the default configuration you are more vulnerable. For these, your AV software will help you- it will wipe out those viruses as soon as they hit your inbox. If they are known, and not new ones (most are known).

Other malware installs via your browser, mostly IE. Most but not all use JavaScript of ActiveX exploits. The nature of these technologies virtually guarantees that there will be new zero day attacks for years to come. Against these, your firewall will not help. Neither will your AV program. Neither will your IE security settings. You can be reasonably safe if you turn off ActiveX and JavaScript, which is possible, but I don't think IE does that for any security setting. As long as IE accepts ActiveX in any way, shape, or form, you are exposed to ActiveX attacks. There are ways around the "security" settings for this technology.

Why does your firewall not help? Because these attacks come in via the same port your web pages come in, therefore they are not blocked.

But surely, the AV software will help?!

No it won't because of the nature of the attack - the trojan starts to run as soon as you watch the website. Once the trojan is running, it disables the AV software or uses any of the well known techniques to hide itself from the AV software. You might think it would take a particularly malicious code to disable your AV software, but the fact of the matter is that all trojans out in the wild do this. They run bot nets of 100,000 machines and more. At this point, the AV software is completely useless.

In summary, you can make IE reasonably secure by turning off ActiveX and JavaScript. But then, a lot of websites won't work anymore. ActiveX is used on the Windows update site, JavaScript on nearly all web pages.

Firefox doesn't have these problems, at least not nearly at the same magnitude. In part surely because IE is the default install and has the largest market share so it's natural to target IE first, in part because of ActiveX which is basically insecure by design (it was invented to compete with Java and at that more innocent time on the web Microsoft decided to make it better than Java by enabling it to access all parts of the system and by leaving out the security sandbox. Whoops!!).

Firefox keeps you much less exposed. I don't personally know any exploits like this that work on Firefox, but I do know about many that work on IE.

PS: Always keep Windows automatic update enabled and always promptly install all security relevant updates. That way at least you are safe from known exploits. After each official update (patch tuesday), a slew of copycat trojans follow that use the exploits that have just been fixed in order to catch all those that didn't immediately update.

Edited April 12, 2008 by nikster

[george]

The mallware problem has almost vanished when using IE7 in combination with Vista, as it is more sandboxed then IE7 running under XP. I prefer IE7, but use firefox as well, I run a multitude of operating systems, on Windows I run IE7 almost allways (except when I need to run a site that won't work under IE7), on Leopard and Linux Firefox is king.

If you for example surf thaivisa.com forum you will have a much better web experience with Firefox than IE. If you are using FF 3.0 Beta, you will really see the speed difference.

So yes, FF beats IE.

[jonniebkk]

It's pretty simple. Lots of online malware can install itself into IE with no user interaction.

I don't think this is true...not if the user has configured IE7's internet properties settings properly. In addition, it comes with built-in cookie monitor and phishing filters. Combine this with a firewall (Window's Firewall or Zone Alarm for example), an anti-virus program (AVG, Avast, Avira), and one of the many free spyware monitors (i.e., WinDefender, Spybot, or Adaware) and you have a perfectly safe and secure system.

No. That's a common belief that nevertheless is false. I will try to explain below, but it helps to understand how malware works.

Well, I guess anything is THEORETICALLY possible and the scenarios you describe could occur. There is always going to be a trade-off between security and useabiity-usefullness in ANYTHING. One related example with regards to browsers is FF. This is my default browser and it has a security add-on one can install call "No Scripts." It basically stops any and all scripts from running in a webpage until you give permission. Unfortunately, to have this much protection is so annoying and disabling on so many websites I removed it. For someone running just a personal use computer, it was security overkill. If you were responsible for a business system it might be a different story.

I can only repeat that I have not had any viruses, Trojans, spyware infections, or system hang-up due to malware for many years using my basic security precautions. Neither have I had my identity stolen, or my passwords, sensitive personal or financial data compromised.

Edited April 12, 2008 by jonniebkk

[JetsetBkk]

Am I missing something here???

If you click on 'Tools / Add-ons', how many "add-ons" do you have installed?

For me, Firefox is all about the 'add-ons'.

[CosmicSurfer]

Am I missing something here???

If you click on 'Tools / Add-ons', how many "add-ons" do you have installed?

For me, Firefox is all about the 'add-ons'.

And this is the main reason that I don't like Firefox... TOO MANY ADD-ONs.

Which is the best Add-on??? Which is the worst??? Choices... Choices... Choices... I hate too many choices... Gives me a headache.

I like Simple Downloads and Install... I like Built-In functionality.

I like intuitive software built for us Non-Geek types.

(Geeks are just trying to get back at us for all the shots they took when they were pimply kids with pocket protectors.

Geeks like to build Add-ons that take a degree in Computer Science to install and understand.)

I preferer IE with an IE Shell.. currently my favorite is "Avant". (get it HERE.)

VERY Stable.. I've had up to 50 tabs open at once with no problems or system slowdown.

Another good shell is Maxthon (Here.)

And/Or add IE7Pro for increased functionality in IE7. (Here)

This add-on adds functionality to Avant and Maxthon also.

Both these shells have VERY good Ad-Blockers, plus I use Ad-Muncher for increased detection and blockage. (Google it.)

For Security I use Zone Alarm Firewall (v6.5 - v7 is a resource Hog) Spyware Blaster, Avast, AdAware, Spybot Search & Destry, Windows Defender and WinPatrol... All FREE software.

I NEVER have any problems, aside from the few cookies that slip thru.

Due to Resource slowdowns and difficulty to Uninstall, I have chosen in my latest O/S install to keep FireFox totally OFF my System.

I use Opera as an Alternate Browser.

(I also shun iTunes. Talk about a company that really has no regard for it's customers.. NEVER Buy or use APPLE anything.)

Besides... Mozilla (Firefox), Google and Apple (Steve Jobs) are all plotting to take over the World !!!!!!!

The Net Axis of Evil.

Long Live MS and Bill Gates.

CS

[Gary A]

I am using the new Firefox beta on my desk top. I use Adblock, IE Tab and Flashgot/get download manager. It works great. I am on my laptop right now and am using the Flock browser. It uses the same add ons as Firefox and also works great.

Before the new Firefox beta, I had a lot of glitches with Firefox that made me decide to use Flock. IE is a thing of the past as far as I am concerned. I do have IE 7 and consider it slow and clunky.

[JetsetBkk]

Am I missing something here???

If you click on 'Tools / Add-ons', how many "add-ons" do you have installed?

For me, Firefox is all about the 'add-ons'.

And this is the main reason that I don't like Firefox... TOO MANY ADD-ONs....

But... but... "add-ons" = functionality!

You can get add-ons ('extensions') that do all sorts of things that IE won't. That's that whole point of a browser with configurable functionality.

Sometimes I'm forced to use IE - especially banking web sites - and I often want to do something, and IE won't let me.

For example, this reply I'm typing now fills nearly all my screen. I filled up the original small box, so I dragged the bottom edge of the box to make it bigger. I can also rearrange words and sentences by selecting them and dragging the selected text. I don't think you can do that with IE.

I also have my tabs on the left side organised as a "tree" - child tabs are indented so I can see which pages are related and can close a complete tree if I want. Maybe you can do that with IE, but I don't think so.

The problem with extensions is, if you don't know they exist, you don't know what you missing. I periodically search for other peoples' top ten FF extensions just to find out what's new. Here's one list:

http://www.quickonlinetips.com/archives/20...-power-surfing/

[sjaak327]

Yep in terms of add on functionality, firefox beats IE7. I have IE7 pro as add on for IE7, but have disabled most of it (including the mini download manager) because the standard functionality in IE7 suits me just fine.

I think it is just a matter of preference, I like the way IE7 (by default) handles tabs, I need to tweak firefox to have the same functionality.

[unomi]

I would say that firefox is definitely better than IE, however the Opera browser www. opera. com beats both hands down. Opera basically invented tabbed browsing and they continue to innovate with things like mouse gestures, 'thumbnails' of tabbed content and predictive 'Forward' buttons. Also the integrated download manager is great apart from its bit torrent support which i find a bit basic, but erm, no other browser has it anyway. It also includes IRC client, Mail client. My favourite thing about opera would have to be its session management, where you can save several 'browsing sessions'. All out of the box at a 4mb download size.

Web sites that obey the w3cs standards should all display correctly in all browsers (except sometimes for IE).

However the prevalence of web designers using frontpage or its ilk and not taking the time to test in other browsers contribute to a broken web. IE has traditionally been *very* forgiving with web pages that dont follow standards.

If you come across a site that does not work in opera or FF and find that it works in IE chances are very good that it would fail http://validator.w3.org/ the w3cs HTML validator. Please do your bit and email the site so they can fix their broken site.

The problem is that as http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2008/February/browser.php shows, FF and other browsers account for little more than 20% of browsers used by the typical web surfer. I would imagine that that number will rise quite dramatically in the future. IE7 is inching closer to full standards compliance but not quite there yet.

[stumonster]

Well, I guess anything is THEORETICALLY possible and the scenarios you describe could occur.

Quite a few big name sites have been embarrassed in the last 6 months by Adverts that have contained malicious code being included in thier web pages

This is my default browser and it has a security add-on one can install call "No Scripts." It basically stops any and all scripts from running in a webpage until you give permission. Unfortunately, to have this much protection is so annoying and disabling on so many websites I removed it.

Noscript is essential in my opinion , very easy to set scripts from a site you trust and only allow from that domain no matter what other scripts are on that page - see my pervious comment concerning malicious scripts coming from off site adverts

Am I missing something here???

If you click on 'Tools / Add-ons', how many "add-ons" do you have installed?

For me, Firefox is all about the 'add-ons'.

And this is the main reason that I don't like Firefox... TOO MANY ADD-ONs.

plus I use Ad-Muncher for increased detection and blockage. (Google it.)

is admuncher an addon ???

for the record - my essential extensions ( addons ) are

NoScript

Adblock

IEtab

Foxmarks

Fireftp

[RueFang]

Yup, love the add ons, love the password manager, love the multi-tabs in FF. IE drives me nuts

[junkofdavid2]

As someone who always wants the best..

Buy a Mac.

AGREE! MAC IS BY FAR THE BEST!

... For people doing only Mac things!

[Jockstar]

The mallware problem has almost vanished when using IE7 in combination with Vista, as it is more sandboxed then IE7 running under XP. I prefer IE7, but use firefox as well, I run a multitude of operating systems, on Windows I run IE7 almost allways (except when I need to run a site that won't work under IE7), on Leopard and Linux Firefox is king.

If you for example surf thaivisa.com forum you will have a much better web experience with Firefox than IE. If you are using FF 3.0 Beta, you will really see the speed difference.

So yes, FF beats IE.

Opera is another option. This is my browser of choice.

[toptuan]

It's pretty simple. Lots of online malware can install itself into IE with no user interaction.

I don't think this is true...

It's true, it's true!

My partner and I have operated two computers side by side for a year. My computer runs Firefox and their computer runs IE. T

Their computer is constantly getting malware and viruses loaded onto it through IE, despite the fact that they generally follow the same computer-safe practices that I do (don't download unwanted emails, doing virus scans, etc.) My friend has had to reinstall the O/S twice in 12 months, as a result.

I know it's just one bit of anecdotal evidence, but it stacks up as you hear other users tell their tales of woe with IE.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello.

I have long used Netscape, then Firefox. I'm on Vista now (Linux soon) and i found that Firefox, with each update/upgrade, becomes more like IE... at the office, ever since an update a couple of weeks ago the thing hangs on certain websites (ThaiVisa included!) when something named "googlesyndication" is loading..... it just freezes there and when i close that window, the whole Firefox (all open windows/tabs) close and i have to start from scratch - bad when you had a number of windows open that require logins, such as corporate webmail etc. I did NOT experience this problem at home, however here, too, Firefox is getting slower and slower with each update.

Also, specifically Thai websites are just not made for compatibility - for some reason many sites just don't work in FF and require IE. But thanks for the tip with the IEtab thingy, i'll give that a try tomorrow at the office. Normally for such sites (at home!) i use Netscape 8 which can utilize FF and IE engines if required.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[klikster]

I have IE, FF and Opera installed .. and used FF as default until something quirky happened .. probably as the result of my tinkering. I'm not sure why web builders don't build for FF .. it seems to see CSS better than IE. It doesn't make any sense for me .. giving up a significant % of their audience.

On my main site (not a techie site) AWStats tells me that FF is 15.7%

Whenever I'm building a new site, I make sure it works well on all 3 browsers.

I think I would be an Opera user if it would "Save" pages like FF, tucking all the images, css and js into a folder.

I personally like the way IE and Opera render text better than FF.

[Crushdepth]

I personally like the way IE and Opera render text better than FF.

I don't know about Opera, but IE text seems fuzzy to me compared to Firefox. And the way it loads webpages is just bizzarre - columns jumping around and resizing. Worst browser ever, IMHO.

[JetsetBkk]

...when something named "googlesyndication" is loading..... it just freezes there...

I used to have that problem with "googlesyndication". Sometimes it would take a long time for the message "waiting for googlesyndication" to disappear from the status bar - 10 or 20 seconds.

But that problem appears to have gone away now.

[klikster]

I personally like the way IE and Opera render text better than FF.

I don't know about Opera, but IE text seems fuzzy to me compared to Firefox. And the way it loads webpages is just bizzarre - columns jumping around and resizing. Worst browser ever, IMHO.

Is that IE6 or IE7?

[Plus]

IE7 is a lot closer to FF/Opera than any previous IE version, and the upcoming IE8 is promised to finally become standard compliant.

There are infinitely more add ons for FF than for IE, but choosing the ones you like can be time consuming, I agree, and having too many of them slows FF down.

>>>>

googlesyndication problem - in Opera there's "Block content" feature. Open it and add it to the blocked list. Opera will never try to contact that site again.

I actually opened a source for Thaivisa once and went through every bloody link and blocked it forever. No more stupid reports to "hitcounters", "bigboardstats", "google-analytics" - gone, for good.

I'd imagine there's a similar add on for FF.