Third Bangkok Expat Beheaded In Iraq

[IamMaiC]

but aside from the animals in their race Muslims are very nice

A medical tech at one of the mobile blood banks told me the first four people in line to give blood after the WTC attacks were a Muslim man and wife and two teenaged sons.

One of the saddest film clips I saw of the WTC attacks showed a weeping traditionally-garbed Muslim woman holding a photograph of a bearded young man and asking rescuers and passers-by, "Have you seen my son ? Has anyone seen my son ?"

That was a sad day rod I still remember it like it was yesterday Changed the whole world and alot of people's thinking i had been to the trade center in 1996 but never went inside I just kept looking up and thinking the balls on the guys that built this thing

[Deadcert]

Sad and terrible as this saga is, you have to ask yourself why was Bigley in Iraq in the first place. All the money in the world wouldn't drag me within a thousand miles.

Bottom line is you pay your money you take your chances.

As much I HATE Tony Blair, I also understand the great risk you put all Britons in if you deal with kidnappers. Blair and that ###### wit Bush took us into an illegal war, have changed the goal posts at every given oportunity and yet both countries look like they are going to vote them both back in.

One last point, take a look at some off the religious zelots that live in the US and ask yourselves if their actions are any better.

The world is being pushed to the brink of a war with religious fanatics on both sides.

[IamMaiC]

Sad and terrible as this saga is, you have to ask yourself why was Bigley in Iraq in the first place. All the money in the world wouldn't drag me within a thousand miles.

Bottom line is you pay your money you take your chances.

As much I HATE Tony Blair, I also understand the great risk you put all Britons in if you deal with kidnappers. Blair and that ###### wit Bush took us into an illegal war, have changed the goal posts at every given oportunity and yet both countries look like they are going to vote them both back in.

One last point, take a look at some off the religious zelots that live in the US and ask yourselves if their actions are any better. 

The world is being pushed to the brink of a war with religious fanatics on both sides.

I am getting tired of people making fun of the US President Our congress voted on it and gave him permission to go so they are just as guilty The President can only order troops to fight for up to 90 days and that is it other wise he has to get congress approval and how is this an illegal war During the nineties many resolutions were passed by the UN for Saddam to disarm and this is fact. Also the US had all rights to attack him anyway He has started a war many times by shooting at our planes when the No Fly Zones were in effect. Also the time he massed troops along the Kuwait border but everyone forgets all these things The world is better that Saddam Hussein is not in power anymore or do u not agree to this??

[Eastender]

Sympathies to his family, and also his wife who had very little mention from the media.

I hope the terrorist are brought to justice. But I dream that one day, those who motivated the terrorist are brought to justice to.

Those who go to war with a nation, in the name of defence, and in the sole reason of oil/profit.

Those who continually cause trouble and fighting throughout the world, and laughably think of themselves as 'world peacemakers', or 'world policemen'.

[JemJem]

Hey people...I thought the admin (see the top of the first page) wrote to warn about this getting to be a 'political debate' !

And...please refrain from using offensive language ! A man has brutally been murdered.

Show respect !

Jem

[IamMaiC]

Sympathies to his family, and also his wife who had very little mention from the media.

I hope the terrorist are brought to justice.  But I dream that one day, those who motivated the terrorist are brought to justice to.

Those who go to war with a nation, in the name of defence, and in the sole reason of oil/profit.

Those who continually cause trouble and fighting throughout the world, and laughably think of themselves as 'world peacemakers', or 'world policemen'.

WE have been to iraq twice I was their for thirteen months with the US army and i don't think i'm a policeman I'm a soldier. Never during my stay there were we taking oil always think it's about oil so what stops The US from going to saudi arabia and kuwait and other places to get their "oil"

[IamMaiC]

Hey people...I thought the admin (see the top of the first page) wrote to warn about this getting to be a 'political debate' !

And...please refrain from using offensive language ! A man has brutally been murdered.

Show respect !

Jem

Yeah she's right and i'm stopping now go argue about our illegal war and the search for oil some where else.

My condolences to the Bigley Family

[rod_kalashnikov]

That was a sad day rod

Yes, it certainly was.

Last year I walked on the ground where the WTC towers stood. I thought I was hard enough to handle anything, but that place rattled my chain so much that I could never do it again.

[IamMaiC]

That was a sad day rod

Yes, it certainly was.

Last year I walked on the ground where the WTC towers stood. I thought I was hard enough to handle anything, but that place rattled my chain so much that I could never do it again.

I never been there actually passed it on the bridge i use to take to get to my grandmothers house every time i went there i use to look at the skyline and marvel at all the buildings Amazing I thought but not so amazing anymore They were simple looking buildings not much to look at just the fact they were so tall

[rod_kalashnikov]

And...please refrain from using offensive language !

In some instances, offensive language should be compulsory!

[francois]

sad

may they all rest in peace.

imho ... they will never catch the barbaric unhuman bastards who did this

francois

[IamMaiC]

sad

may they all rest in peace.

imho ... they will never catch the barbaric unhuman bastards who did this

francois

You Know Why Franco Because the Rest of the world is sitting on the sidelines and not joining in the Fight

Sure we can argue about Iraq and other things until we are blue in the Face But the terrorism problem will still be there while were are still in safe havens for now

The terrorist want death know only death so that's what they should get

[rod_kalashnikov]

Sad and terrible as this saga is, you have to ask yourself why was Bigley in Iraq in the first place.

I used to make a distinction between missionaries/nuns/aid workers/whoever who went into hotspots to help the suffering locals and engineers/geologists/whoever who went into hotspots with their eyes on the big paypacket ... but in hindsight, regardless of their reasons for being there, none of them were soldiers.

It's been said that Kenneth Bigley was in Iraq to help re-construct the country ... but it doesn't really matter "why" he was there ... he didn't deserve to die the way he did.

His death wasn't the civilian collateral damage we've learned to accept as part of war ... he was a non-combatant who was deliberately murdered ... and that murder must be avenged!

[britmaveric]

My sympathies to Bigleys wife and family. I knew the outcome when he was taken that he was as good as dead unless rescued.

It looks as if one of the captors let him escape. Sky news said Bigley had run off for 30min and that was when they murdered him. Also murdered the one captor with an apparent conscience.

[IamMaiC]

My sympathies to Bigleys wife and family. I knew the outcome when he was taken that he was as good as dead unless rescued.

It looks as if one of the captors let him escape. Sky news said Bigley had run off for 30min and that was when they murdered him. Also murdered the one captor with an apparent conscience.

Even the muslims with a conscience have to worry their own people are killing them. As the world sits idly by and lets it happen but of course that's the RIGHT thing to do.

[chuchok]

British hostage Bigley escaped briefly before beheaded

09.10.2004

8.40pm

BAGHDAD - British hostage Kenneth Bigley escaped briefly from his captors shortly before they beheaded him in Iraq, insurgent sources said on Saturday.

They said Bigley managed to get away for about half an hour with the help of one of his captors before he was caught in farmland near the town of Latifiya, southwest of Baghdad.

Bigley was beheaded in Latifiya soon after his recapture on Thursday afternoon, one source said, adding: "He never made it to the main street."

The fate of his accomplice was not immediately known. Bigley had been held by the Tawhid and Jihad group led by Jordanian Islamist militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

British and Iraqi officials have declined comment on an earlier report from a Western security source that Bigley was killed after trying to escape with help from an insider, but they have denied that he died after a failed rescue attempt.

Blair's government, which for three weeks refused to bargain with Bigley's kidnappers even after they killed his two American colleagues, revealed on Friday that it had opened secret contacts with them in the days before his death.

On Friday a Reuters journalist saw a video in Baghdad in which the 62-year-old construction engineer made a final despairing plea for his life before militants suspected of fostering ties to al Qaeda severed his head with a knife.

- REUTERS

[IsaanAlex]

Never during my stay there were we taking oil always think it's about oil so what stops The US from going to saudi arabia and kuwait and other places to get their "oil" 

Of course it's about the oil. The oil revenues will pay for American companes to 'reconstruct' the country-after they destroyed it's infrastructure.

Very clever.

And the reason they likely haven't attacked Kuwait is because there likely isn't enough oil to make it wholly worthwhile. It also wouldn't look 'cool' as the Kuwaitis wore the white hats-in contrast to the Iraqis, the black hats.

The only way that invading Kuwait might be worthwhile is to use it as a base to side-drill into Iraqi oil-the real reason that Iraq invaded Kuwait-after repeated warnings to cease-in the early 90's...

And I believe that Saudi Arabia is the ultimate target. Iraq is necessary to secure as an alternate source of oil first-and makes a great launching pad.

Also makes a great launching pad against the Iranians, I suppose...

And to the poster who, verbatim, said "good riddance to Ken Bigley", it wasn't a nice thing to say, but all sentiments expressed are fair, IMHO.

For all intents and purposes, everyone in Iraq right now is directly or indirectly working for the Americans and/or reaping profits from their invasion.

They are fair game.

And if any Muslim nation invaded any western nation I would give it about 2 months before the invaders heads were being put on pikes...

All in all, the invasion was <deleted>.

Who cares if it was illegal. It was just stupid, regardless...

IA

[wazman]

hello,

as i have been reading it is sad to see all the crap comments posted!

i would like to send my sincere wishes to those that who have had the bad news and that have learnt there love ones have passed on

however this does not make this forum any better to start a slagging match on who and whom is right or not?...does it?

let the people put this behind them..(if they can due to the nature of it all) and please behave as normal people, be it asian,european or otherwise ..please!

the people that done what they did are acting on orders from otheres the same as you and i would go to work and be told what to do...so if the next time your boss tells you to strap on some tnt and go to the embassy what will you do? of course you tell you quit right? well these people dont and there heads are messed up with promises of going to the us or europe where they can make a decent living because they have not that chance where they are...sad but true only not all islam people are bad as there are a lot of others that are too.. and forget religion thats just a bloody excuse!

may the families know that i am sorowed by this tragic act and that i hope they recover and rebuild themselves

life goes on and i wish them the best and all

apologies if this offends but enough is enough

cheers and hope you all start to behave like humans not idiots as you have been!

[Highwayman]

"I think most people are not looking for blame, I would hope but looking to offer the true level of sympathy and support for the family who have been through the most stressful period imaginable.

"There will be a time and a place to hold to account those responsible in all sorts of ways for polices with which we disagree but this is not the time or the place in my view.

"The only appropriate reaction is to show respect and sympathy for a very dignified Bigley family.

Peter Kilfoyle MP

source: bbc.co.uk

A shame some people here could not share his attitude.

[tayto]

Sincerest condolences to the Bigley family and to his wife here in Thailand.

I wonder if it would be possible to relay ,Thai Visa and its forum members sympathy to his widow.I am sure some member will have some knowledge of his wifes home and would be able to contact them

May he rest in peace

[Santini]

The British Embassy will do all in its power to comfort Sombat...

There are those on here, who have no sympathy. Best she doesnt get wind of that

[zapatero]

It is time for moderate Muslims to stand up and defend, salvage, and reclaim their own religion, and to speak out against its sullied misuse.

Moderate Muslims are losing the battle because the actions of loonies speak louder than the words of moderates ...

Rod, I agree with most everything that you have said in your post. However, my point is that I see very little evidence that moderate Muslims are even bothering to enter the "battle".

Is this from apathy, or from fear, or from sympathy with the values of the extremists?

If our premise is that most Muslims are good, peace-loving, and moral people, then it cannot be from the latter, because that would be a contradiction.

If from fear, then fear of what or whom? If fear of ostracisim by their fellow Muslims, then we are back to the same contradiction.

If from fear of Allah, then, again, we are back to the contradiction, because that would imply that Allah's teachings are in support of the extremists' position. (We'll postpone that one for later discussion.)

If from fear of retribution from the mullahs and clerics, now we are approaching the nub. We already know all too well the consequences of the teachings of some of these M&Cs. And probably a fear of their retribution is worthy of some attention by the local moderates. But are we now saying that fear of retribution from all M&Cs everywhere is justifiable? I think not, for if so then we are again back to the contradiction, because we have just condemned the whole of Islam.

So, if our original premise is correct, then that leaves us with a pretty large fraction of the world's two billion Muslims who are just remaining silent, without any reason to be in fear. And also a whole lot of putatively non-extremist, but very quiet M&Cs!

I call that apathy.

Which pretty much leads me back to the thoughts of my original posting:

Where’s the Outrage?

Where’s the outrage? Hey, I would be comforted to hear even a bit of modest admonition; or even less, a little mild disapproval! Is all this violence, destruction, killing, and hatred; and are all these egregious and barbarous beheadings what moderate Muslims stand for or not? You wouldn’t have the answer from listening. The silence is deafening.

Now that the extremists have “hijacked their faith” (really?), (I realize the implication is not politically correct), for their own evil purposes, who is it that ends up being the apologists for Islam? Why, it’s the Christians and those of other faiths outside of Islam!

It is time for moderate Muslims to stand up and defend, salvage, and reclaim their own religion, and to speak out against its sullied misuse. It is the moderates who have to place pressure on the extremists. The extremists certainly won’t be moved by any pleas from the Christians, or from the other religions of the world either for that matter. If there is ever to be a “Reformation” of Islam, as there was with Christianity for its own excesses, it will have to come from within, it won’t come from without. Moderate Islam, the world is waiting to hear your voices! If you really decry what is going on, if you feel any shame or guilt at all, then let the usurpers of your religion and the rest of the world hear from you! The rest of the world is listening. Quietly listening...

Somebody's gotta take the first step, but to be effective it will have to be a Muslim step...

~~~zapatero

[350torana]

Also my sincere condolences to the Bigley family, it was trully barbaric.

But, it seems some members here are using this post to attack all Muslims because moderate Muslims do not do anything. Let's remeber that Iraq's soveignty was taken away by an invading power(S) How many innocent people in Iraq have had thier life cut short because of politics, bad calls ? I am sure alot of moderate Muslims have the same sentiment, hence the lack of empathy.

[Boon Mee]

And....like....does anyone have a clue or tried to get in touch with Sombat?

Do a little "whip-round" boys???

[rod_kalashnikov]

It is time for moderate Muslims to stand up and defend, salvage, and reclaim their own religion, and to speak out against its sullied misuse.

Moderate Muslims are losing the battle because the actions of loonies speak louder than the words of moderates ...

Rod, I agree with most everything that you have said in your post. However, my point is that I see very little evidence that moderate Muslims are even bothering to enter the "battle".

There is evidence that moderate Muslims are starting to speak up ... but in most cases the media's hearing is blindly focused on the voices of the radicals.

A recent talk-back show on Metro-TV in Jakarta was inundated with calls from everyday Muslims denouncing the Australian Embassy bombing. Leading clerics of various factions in various Arab States have spoken out publicly and on radio and television against hostage-takers and suicide bombers and their ilk ... in most cases branding the perps "non-Muslims" and "criminals in the eyes of Allah".

That's not carrying the ball far enough! Despite its membership being decimated by Indonesian secret police in the two years since the Bali bombings, the ranks of Jemaah Islamiah continue to swell, and the ranks of mujahideen and other self-proclaimed "warriors of God" continue to swell despite the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.

There is a way to instil abject fear in the minds of those considering terrorist acts, and to make them re-consider. It insults the very core beliefs of Islam ... but I believe it is the only answer. We must fight radical Islamic terror with an even greater terror ... and moderate Muslims must accept that this is neccessary for the future of Islam.

Where’s the Outrage?

Somebody's gotta take the first step, but to be effective it will have to be a Muslim step...

Fear of dying in disgrace in the eyes of Allah is the only thing those brainwashed terrorist bastards are afraid of. I believe the only answer is to unleash the greatest of all terrors on the mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, wives, and children of every identified radical Islamic loony. No Muslim will personally take that terrible step ... but moderate Muslims must support those who will.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Brother Confirms British Hostage Is Dead

In war, there is always collateral damage. Non-combatants are killed simply because they're in the wrong place at the wrong time ... and often those killed are women and children.

Right or wrong, we accept the deaths of innocent civilians in war ... they're inevitable ... they're part of The Game ... but they're accidental.

The deliberate cowardly murders of Kenneth Bigley and others by radical Islamic lunatics were not the acts of a warrior, and as a warrior, I cannot accept them as collateral damage.

Those deaths must be avenged ... whatever it takes!

Do them in, Mr Bush ... all of them!

I second that motion.

[Lioneric]

An elephant was killed becuase of it tusk,

A hostage killed because no ransom paid,

A country acttack because of oil reserved.

Armageddon will come because of our sins.

[zapatero]

There is a way to instil abject fear in the minds of those considering terrorist acts, and to make them re-consider. It insults the very core beliefs of Islam ... but I believe it is the only answer. We must fight radical Islamic terror with an even greater terror ... and moderate Muslims must accept that this is neccessary for the future of Islam.

Fear of dying in disgrace in the eyes of Allah is the only thing those brainwashed terrorist bastards are afraid of. I believe the only answer is to unleash the greatest of all terrors on the mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, wives, and children of every identified radical Islamic loony. No Muslim will personally take that terrible step ... but moderate Muslims must support those who will.

Surprised to hear your thoughts, Rod. Surprised..., because, coincidentally, two years ago, as reprehensible to the civilized mind as it is, I wrote a paper suggesting that this same idea might be the only viable solution to the problem of suicidal terrorists. I circulated it amongst my colleagues and friends -- and the reception was at best tepid. Outright horror at the worst -- we would be behaving no better than they are!!

But that paper, before the present situation in Iraq, was directed only at the more humane capers of the Palestinians against the Israelis -- at "only" the impersonal bombings, that, among other innocents, intentionally slaughtered schoolchildren and other associated noncombatants. Now that things have risen to the more elevated levels of depravity -- the up close and personal depravity of sawing people's heads off as orchestrated video productions -- I don't know, but perhaps attitudes will be beginning to shift a bit...(???) Perhaps a solution this radical really may have to come to pass. One does wonder, though, what would be the level of terrorism today, had this solution been implemented two years ago? And what would now today be the net difference in loss of innocent lives?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

There is a way to instil abject fear in the minds of those considering terrorist acts, and to make them re-consider. It insults the very core beliefs of Islam ... but I believe it is the only answer. We must fight radical Islamic terror with an even greater terror ... and moderate Muslims must accept that this is neccessary for the future of Islam.

Fear of dying in disgrace in the eyes of Allah is the only thing those brainwashed terrorist bastards are afraid of. I believe the only answer is to unleash the greatest of all terrors on the mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, wives, and children of every identified radical Islamic loony. No Muslim will personally take that terrible step ... but moderate Muslims must support those who will.

Surprised to hear your thoughts, Rod. Surprised..., because, coincidentally, two years ago, as reprehensible to the civilized mind as it is, I wrote a paper suggesting that this same idea might be the only viable solution to the problem of suicidal terrorists. I circulated it amongst my colleagues and friends -- and the reception was at best tepid. Outright horror at the worst -- we would be behaving no better than they are!!

But that paper, before the present situation in Iraq, was directed only at the more humane capers of the Palestinians against the Israelis -- at "only" the impersonal bombings, that, among other innocents, intentionally slaughtered schoolchildren and other associated noncombatants. Now that things have risen to the more elevated levels of depravity -- the up close and personal depravity of sawing people's heads off as orchestrated video productions -- I don't know, but perhaps attitudes will be beginning to shift a bit...(???) Perhaps a solution this radical really may have to come to pass. One does wonder, though, what would be the level of terrorism today, had this solution been implemented two years ago? And what would now today be the net difference in loss of innocent lives?

It is certainly becoming a lot harder to love a Muslim. Their actions and tacit support for their manical bretheren bring the lot into absolute disrepute. The Christians of the middle ages are starting to look good.

[The Gentleman Scamp]

Respect and deepest sympathy to Ken himself, his wife and family.

All these beheadings have saddened me but this one has had the deepest affect on me, and I am sure, everybody who has been able to bear the relentlessly depressing news coverage.

Ken's was somehow the most tragic.

To imagine what his last weeks/days would have been like and to imagine his fear, his desperate sobbing for mercy and thoughts for his family is sickeningly unbearable, let alone wondering what the moments that followed the moment he was held down were like.

To go through all that after a life which I just read was tarnished with enough tragedy already.

And I really, really dislike hearing people say, "Well, it's sad but he knew the risk he was taking" - This is irrelevant... Would you say that to his mum, who incedentally is too old to probably survive her grief, would you say it to any of his family?

If you were shot by a policeman in Chaing Rai or killed on a bike in Samui, would you want people saying - "Well, he wanted to live in Thailand, he knew the risks".

There is no criticism to give Kenneth Bigley on account of the way he has just died and it's annoying to read it, no matter how mild, just for the sake of typing something different to everyone else.

That guy who posted 'good riddance etc...' there is no point in having a go at him because he just wants to stir up a reaction. He is as sick as the fanatics and can't be helped, but all the same I hope he gets what Rod reccommended or similar.

I recently started a thread titled 'Kenneth Bigley - Any News' in the HKK forum - perhaps it could now be used as a message board to his wife?

Surely somebody connected with Thaivisa.com would have a way of contacting her and passing the condolencies on... Just an idea.