Farangs Being Farangs

[Lithobid]

I bad-mouth the locals in my post? Really? You must be really thin-skinned - and on behalf of others, and not yourself, no less! So I guess I owe that group of 30 thais an apology for having an accident that was 100% my fault right in front of them - in your opinion? I could have run into them! I put their lives at risk! My God - I am a horrible person!!! Yes, I agree that me not slowing down was unwise - but was it racist or bigoted or "culturally insensitive" of me as well? That is pushing it A BIT far isn't it? Please don't come back and say 'but I never said that!' - no, not in those words, but that was the gist of your post...

But you probably belong to the 'Love it or Leave it-brigade' - and jump down the throat of anyone who critisise ANYTHING about thais or Thailand, no matter how outrageous the matter being "bad-mouthed" is. If you find yourself starting to waver in your beliefs just close your eyes, stopper your ears, and repeat this mantra in your head: "Thailand and the thai people are 100% perfect in every way!" - for 15 to 20 minutes.

BTW, I was wearing a helmet, but not with a faceguard - as was my wife -- and I was going on the extreme right-hand side of the road, in the fast-lane long enough away from the hooligans not to get hit - or so I thought... I have pulled this manouvre more than 50 times before, at least, and never got hit -- but this time the bastards RAN INTO the road far enough to be able to hit me. Entirely my fault, I guess, for pissing the hooligans off by trying to evade the "blessing" of 10 litres of freezing water with icecubes in the face.

I do not mind getting hit when on a motorbike in a soy or other small roads - but on a 4-lane highway or larger where most traffic goes 80-90 kph I think it is outrageous that "perfect thai people" are allowed by the police to "bless" passing motorists. THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE REAL SONGKRAN - it is a perversion of a beautiful old thai tradition! Oh no, I did it again! I bad-mouthed drunk thai hooligans. I guess I should 'Leave it'?

This forum sure has a lot of special people on it. I'm glad I'm not special.

-AG

With hindsight I should have slowed down when I spotted this large group by the side of the freeway, but between downtown CM and my home 20 km outside CM there are A LOT of these groups throwing water by the side of the road - if I slow down every time I see one of these groups then it's going to take a long time driving home.n the face with filthy water.

You said it: I should have slowed down! You bad mouth the locals, knowing precisely what is going on on, but continue on as normal at 60kph & get hit in the face. If you know so much, & the locals are throwing water so dangerously why continue at a dangerous speed?

Typical Passive Aggresive behaviour by Locals who are newbies... You will learn , maybe, but I doubt it.

Ahmen Ajahn, and AG it's not the love it or leave it brigade, or any brigade for that matter, I just think some of us might just try a little harder to explore the events, and festivities, instead of going about our normal routine and expecting different results (definition of insanity by the way). Is it that hard to rent a car for 3 days, problem solved.

And I stick with your later opinion Ajahn

And AG no hard feelings, if I've offended

Chock Dee Mak!

[Blinky Bill]

Reminds me of The Thai Visa member who said, "I will never say the word 'Kaw' (polite request) because I will never beg anything from anyone"... Believe me, Thais don't use it for that reason. That is him unwilling to believe anything else, other than what he 'knows'.

Was that Crowboy?

[Crow Boy]

Reminds me of The Thai Visa member who said, "I will never say the word 'Kaw' (polite request) because I will never beg anything from anyone"... Believe me, Thais don't use it for that reason. That is him unwilling to believe anything else, other than what he 'knows'.

Was that Crowboy?

Doesn't sound like anything I would write or think

I can differentiate between Kaw and Ow for wanting to do something or wanting something.

I don't use Caw for Crowspeak or even Cor for Australianisms such as "cor blimey" or even "cor crikey mate check out the teeth on that croc over there, 'es a biggun"

As a back note - a post in this thread was reported and I have responded to it. Please keep your posts on topic and no personal attacks.

CB

[Blinky Bill]

Reminds me of The Thai Visa member who said, "I will never say the word 'Kaw' (polite request) because I will never beg anything from anyone"... Believe me, Thais don't use it for that reason. That is him unwilling to believe anything else, other than what he 'knows'.

Was that Crowboy?

Doesn't sound like anything I would write or think

CB

Kaw?

[Maestro]

Kaw?

I read it as ขอ, transliterated with one of the approximately 217 different transliteration systems being used.

--

Maestro

[Rasseru]

Farang is the common name for us, and when it is said by most anyone, it is just a name with no meaning what so ever, other than non-Asian.

Really? I thought it was a term used only with respect to 'white' people of European origin (meaning, including 'white' people whose ancestors came from Europe but who now live other places, like the Americas, Australia and so on). I did not think 'black' Africans were called farang, and I would guess, by extension, that the native peoples of other places, again like the Americas, Australia, New Zealand and so forth, would not be called farang either, any more than Asians would. Am I wrong?

[gmac]

With hindsight I should have slowed down when I spotted this large group by the side of the freeway, but between downtown CM and my home 20 km outside CM there are A LOT of these groups throwing water by the side of the road - if I slow down every time I see one of these groups then it's going to take a long time driving home.n the face with filthy water.

You said it: I should have slowed down! You bad mouth the locals, knowing precisely what is going on on, but continue on as normal at 60kph & get hit in the face. If you know so much, & the locals are throwing water so dangerously why continue at a dangerous speed?

What????????????????????? He has a 20km drive to make and to accommodate these water throwing morons he should drive slowly? The Police should keep these cretins away from major roads so that individuals with normal lives to live can get on with them in a normal manner.

[hugocnx]

Dang, this thread has gone far off topic. Never mind, freedom of speech is great.

But to come back to Song Khran...what is a persons freedom to move across the street without getting hit by sneaky or non sneaky waterposts.

Many complaint about farang going on and on throwing water from inside bars but being a 'Chiang Mai' inhabitant I am told by Thai people that it's far more worse in Bangkok than over here.

Not only farang aren't able to stop. Thai should know first that it ends at sundown. Here in Chiang Mai you can bet your ass that you get flooded even after that time of day. There is a moment that the humourous aspect of a celebration turns against itself. I cannot believe that Thai people like this treatment all the time, but it is as always...don't worry..it's the way it goes and what can you do about it.

OK, I admit that I still have farang attitude and would just like to lay my bike to rest and hit the stupid guys in the face. Don't worry...you cannot teach a Thai something. Same like they love to race a crossroad with red lights on their side and honk you for taking care not causing an accident.

Whooo, before you accuse me of something...I like it here, join the Thai style as much as I can if only just to save my ass in traffic. But this doesn't mean that I have to like it all..or is that too much of topic also?

[malcy]

From the nature of your post I would imagine that big dorky white guy would be a fairly accurate description.

Yep, sometimes I'm painfully honest.

Furthermore, as I speak Thai, I find it especially disconcerting to be called a foreigner... what do I have to do to be called something a bit more respectable? I'm pretty sure that Thais in my home country would not like being called a foreigner if they were fluent in speakin' Amerikan

There is no such language as Amerikan it is just bastardised English .

[Ulysses G.]

I tried to walk across the street at where Thapae Gate and Thapae Road meet at about 8 PM and there were 200 Thais with loud music dancing their butts off in the street - still throwing water - happy as heck. It blew my mind that after 5 days they could just keep going like an energizer battery !

Edited April 16, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[FolkGuitar]

I tried to walk across the street at where Thapae Gate and Thapae Road meet at about 8 PM and there were 200 Thais with loud music dancing their butts off in the street - still throwing water - happy as heck. It blew my mind that after 5 days they could just keep going like an energizer battery !

It really is delightfully amazing to see so many happy people carrying on for so many days with no loss of energy.

Like it or not, you've got to give the Thais credit for really knowing how to party.

Everyone laughing, smiling, helping each other to more water just to have it thrown back at them....

and other than the late night drunks, really quite peaceful too! I have difficulty imagining this going on in other cultures.

At first I thought my problem with it (I only enjoy one day of it,) was that I was just getting old, but I see plenty of

old and very old Thais out there carrying on too! The problem is me, not the holiday. Bummer....

Almost makes Mardi Gras and Carnival in Rio look like holidays on training wheels!

[tigerbeer]

lucky me in bangkok. and coming back today. would not have minded participating in songkran there in town. only thing that worried me were DRUNK FARANGS...

[Ulysses G.]

I do understand many farangs negative feelings about Songkran. For one thing, it just goes on too long. I would LOVE if it lasted for exactly two wild days. Long enough for the kids to get it out of their systems, but not too long so that the old farts don't get too cranky.

On top of that, I have a bunch of businesses that I am paying rent for each and every day and it is useless to try to open them during the holiday - My competitors try it every year and their shops remain deserted until they close in frustration the second day (while I am at the beginning of the soi getting a Thai massage at the shop on the corner).

I am losing money when Chiang Mai is crowded with visitors.

However, I have never seen such a fun, joyous holiday anywhere and people come from all over the world to take part - Anyway, it is going to happen whether I like it or not. My attitude is to make the best out of the situation and enjoy it as much as I can.

I just don't understand how anyone would lock themselves inside the whole time when it is such a pleasure to walk around and watch all the action. No wonder they are angry. I spend the days enjoying the festivities, reading the latest trendy novel, getting a massage and watching movies and don't really get bored, but I am also happy to see it end.

Everyone has to suit themselves, but it is not that difficult to just change your normal schedule for a few days and try to be happy!

[Crow Boy]

I do understand many farangs negative feelings about Songkran. For one thing, it just goes on too long. I would LOVE if it lasted for exactly two wild days. Long enough for the kids to get it out of their systems, but not too long so that the old farts don't get too cranky.

On top of that, I have a bunch of businesses that I am paying rent for each and every day and it is useless to try to open them during the holiday - My competitors try it every year and their shops remain deserted until they close in frustration the second day (while I am at the beginning of the soi getting a Thai massage at the shop on the corner).

I am losing money when Chiang Mai is crowded with visitors.

Interesting that now it is you losing money for only three days a year you make this comment but when it was talking about bars having to close for 5 days in the one month for elections that continued for several more months you made comments that they shouldn't be in business.

CB

[Naam]

why are you in thailand and why are you still drawing breath?

to bother clowns like... ahmm... forum rules forbid insults ad hominem

[Naam]

so what is the story with the 2 farangs, white, large, white 't' shirts (singlets?) that chose to slap down my partner when she attempted to bless them?

could it be they did not want to be "blessed" by your partner? but i agree that "slapping" is not a proper behaviour.

[Naam]

not too long so that the old farts don't get too cranky.

i hate it when you call me names General

[Ulysses G.]

I do understand many farangs negative feelings about Songkran. For one thing, it just goes on too long. I would LOVE if it lasted for exactly two wild days. Long enough for the kids to get it out of their systems, but not too long so that the old farts don't get too cranky.

On top of that, I have a bunch of businesses that I am paying rent for each and every day and it is useless to try to open them during the holiday - My competitors try it every year and their shops remain deserted until they close in frustration the second day (while I am at the beginning of the soi getting a Thai massage at the shop on the corner).

I am losing money when Chiang Mai is crowded with visitors.

Interesting that now it is you losing money for only three days a year you make this comment but when it was talking about bars having to close for 5 days in the one month for elections that continued for several more months you made comments that they shouldn't be in business.

CB

You need to take your memory pills Mr. Crow Boy Sir as I have corrected you about this before, but you keep accusing me of it.

I actually expressed a strong sympathy for the bar owners that had to keep closing their businesses because of this and that.

A certain, very big, very strong, former policeman from OZ was the person that expressed the opinion that you keep attributing to me.

Edited April 16, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Austhaied]

Meditation is a great tonic for memory loss.

As for all the "cranky" farangs dripping about Songkran, you lot just make me wonder if you'll ever be content in this existence. I really doubt it. What a waste.

Smile and the whole world smiles with you, cry and you cry alone.

[Rasseru]

Farang is the common name for us, and when it is said by most anyone, it is just a name with no meaning what so ever, other than non-Asian.

Really? I thought it was a term used only with respect to 'white' people of European origin (meaning, including 'white' people whose ancestors came from Europe but who now live other places, like the Americas, Australia and so on). I did not think 'black' Africans were called farang, and I would guess, by extension, that the native peoples of other places, again like the Americas, Australia, New Zealand and so forth, would not be called farang either, any more than Asians would. Am I wrong?

No one knows?

[Ulysses G.]

Yes, it only means us white folks.

[Ajarn]

Yes, it only means us white folks.

Not true, because not all farang are white.

[FolkGuitar]

Yes, it only means us white folks.

Not true, because not all farang are white.

Interesting how different cultures view 'foreigners.' Is farang really a derogatory term?

In Japan, foreigners are 'politely' called gaikokujin, but most often simply called gaijin which is not so polite but not necessarily meant to be denigrating. Sort of like the line from "The Virginian;" "Smile when you call me that..." (actually, a misquote. Correctly, it was ""If you wanna call me that, smile.") But I digress.

One doesn't use a signature in Japan. One uses a special stamp of your name carved in wood, stone, ivory, etc, often called a chop or hanko. These stamps get registered at the city hall to prove authenticity.

For the Japanese, their stamp is carved with Chinese characters they've imported into their language. However foreigners must use a different alphabet for their stamps. They are not permitted to register a hanko using Chinese characters One of my colleagues at the university was a Chinese woman. Her name obviously was correctly written using Chinese characters. But she was NOT PERMITTED to register her hanko using Chinese characters because she was a foreigner and foreigners aren't allowed to register a chop using Chinese characters!

Is it bad to be called a farang? Chinese aren't called farang. Japanese, Cambodians, Laotians, Burmese, etc. aren't called farang. They are called by their county's name. Maybe the Thais of yesteryear simply didn't know there were other countries when they were developing their language?

I wonder if the question should be; do you mind being called a farang?

[meadish_sweetball]

Is farang really a derogatory term?

It is definitely not intended as derogatory per se, and used neutrally when describing Western things, like 'aahaan farang' etc. with neutral connotations. It can be used in negative contexts too, the same way you can add 'f***ing' in front of any geographical or ethnic name that is otherwise neutral.

And it does not mean 'foreigner' - rather Caucasian or Westerner (but is less formal in register than those two).

As you rightly point out, Thais usually refer to most other Asian nations with their nationality, and do not count Africans among the 'farang' either. But if one looks closer there are other words referring to Japanese and Chinese as well which are less formal and can be taken as insults.

Middle Eastern and especially Indian people are often referred to as 'khaek', or if they are more light skinned, as 'arab'. There is also a 'khaek khaao / khaek dam' division, light skinned versus dark skinned Indians/Eastern Middle Easterners.

Malaysians who look similar are sometimes referred to in the same way, the same way a person from a Southern European and Mediterranean culture like Israelis, Turks, Greeks, etc. can be taken for either 'farang' or 'khaek'.

This 'farang' chestnut has been discussed countless times on Thaivisa, mostly in the general forum. The search function will reveal more than you ever wanted to know about the subject.

[realthaideal]

This 'farang' chestnut has been discussed countless times on Thaivisa, mostly in the general forum. The search function will reveal more than you ever wanted to know about the subject.

Indeed it has. And there was another one on it just closed the other day in the General Forum. One or two far-flung Falang were arguing against the Thai guys who were participating and trying to inform them that there was nothing behind it. They (the Thais) were ever so polite, but the Falang, looking to be offended (committed to being upset) were trying to tell the Thai guys what it 'really' meant. It's all culturally relative. And if you can't see the world thru Thai eyes in Thailand, alot of things will not make sense and offend, so you get what you're looking for as elsewhere in life. If you can, however, and take a break from cultural relativism, you can enjoy freedom from old Western ties that constrain and rob us of simple happinesses in life. And that would be a big reason to be here, wouldn't it ?

So thread hijacking aside: The thing about Farang at Songkran that gets me is the aiming water at the eyes. Songkran certainly doesn't mean blind the others. As a contact wearer, the pump-hose to the eyes is about the most annoying and painful thing out there. I'm fine with the stronger guns for the most part, but the Farang - most often passers-thru in their 20's - who only think SOngkran = Water Fight often deserve a good bashing. Perhaps next yr the Mayor (I applaud her efforts to change some things this yr, some successful, some not.) will also have signs about that explain rituals like the Buddha Parade, and the washing of the Buddhas (Song Naam Prah). And the Dam Hua ceremony for family and business owners. These are wonderful things that ground the holidaytime.

[Donnyboy]

With hindsight I should have slowed down when I spotted this large group by the side of the freeway, but between downtown CM and my home 20 km outside CM there are A LOT of these groups throwing water by the side of the road - if I slow down every time I see one of these groups then it's going to take a long time driving home.n the face with filthy water.

You said it: I should have slowed down! You bad mouth the locals, knowing precisely what is going on on, but continue on as normal at 60kph & get hit in the face. If you know so much, & the locals are throwing water so dangerously why continue at a dangerous speed?

completely agree here, I know there are idiots that use buckets of icy water etc, but you should always drive/ride to the conditions, 150km can be safe, and 20km can be dangerous, depends on the situation and other factors

[Donnyboy]

Meditation is a great tonic for memory loss.

I try to meditate, but I keep forgetting to do it

[Donnyboy]

Is farang really a derogatory term?

It is definitely not intended as derogatory per se, and used neutrally when describing Western things, like 'aahaan farang' etc. with neutral connotations. It can be used in negative contexts too, the same way you can add 'f***ing' in front of any geographical or ethnic name that is otherwise neutral.

And it does not mean 'foreigner' - rather Caucasian or Westerner (but is less formal in register than those two).

As you rightly point out, Thais usually refer to most other Asian nations with their nationality, and do not count Africans among the 'farang' either. But if one looks closer there are other words referring to Japanese and Chinese as well which are less formal and can be taken as insults.

Middle Eastern and especially Indian people are often referred to as 'khaek', or if they are more light skinned, as 'arab'. There is also a 'khaek khaao / khaek dam' division, light skinned versus dark skinned Indians/Eastern Middle Easterners.

Malaysians who look similar are sometimes referred to in the same way, the same way a person from a Southern European and Mediterranean culture like Israelis, Turks, Greeks, etc. can be taken for either 'farang' or 'khaek'.

This 'farang' chestnut has been discussed countless times on Thaivisa, mostly in the general forum. The search function will reveal more than you ever wanted to know about the subject.

white skinned NZers are called parkeeha by the Native Maori meaning "person smell bad"

the term came about when the early european explorers came ashore after many weeks at sea without washing and meet the Maori

Chinese call white men "gway loo" meaning old ghost~ so I believe

when I was growing up my cousins from Singapore use to call me Banana`~ yellow on the outside but white in the middle

[Rasseru]

Yes, it only means us white folks.

Not true, because not all farang are white.

So, who are these farang who are not white?

Edited April 18, 2008 by Rasseru

[Rasseru]

I wonder if the question should be; do you mind being called a farang?

If you decide it should be, my answer would be, why on earth should I?