What Is Your Religion?

[mike_rad]

"idol worshippers" include Hindus, Catholics (as they worship saints) and of course, Buddhists...

Absolute Krap! I strongly suggest you study the essences of these religions before you post statements such as this. Hindus and Christians do not worship idols, the idol, be it a Hindu god or Christ on the cross merely represent the essence of the teachings and the spirit of the god, who is not visible. They are a type of aide memoire, if you like.

The essence of Buddhism is internal. True Buddhists do not worship the Buddha, image or otherwise, or any supernatural being.

I agree with you to a certain extent, but I was pointing out that Judaism considers Hindus, Catholics and Buddhists idol worshipers. You completely missed that.

Want me to give some references from the Torah/Talmud to back that up?

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[Jingthing]

Good luck to you. I personally feel belonging to a group that excluded others would go against my own personal values. I am more interested in shared humanity.

Than why do you live amongst the Thais? A country that most clearly does not want to integrate Europeans into their citizenry, where we are tolerated at best? From the Jewish perspective, the groups that send missions around the world to brainwash the "souls" of the heathens are the offensive ones! The peak of this was the Spanish Inquistion where Jews were forced to convert or die; now tell me who has the more civilized approach to conversions? Anyone who wishes can become a Jew. Nobody will invite you or preach to you, you must actively seek it out, kind of like Thai immigration. To so do you must make a concerted study of Judaism, It can take years. To be a born again Christian, all you have to do is take a bath. Both approaches are valid, but it is not fair to criticize Jews for not recruiting. Jews don't think their truth is for everyone, not that arrogant!!!

[Jingthing]

I agree that the Jewish contribution to the world far outweighs their number.

Hmmm...

"The Jewish theory that the Goyim envy the superior ability of Jews is not borne out by the facts. Most Goyim, in fact, deny that the Jew is superior, and point in evidence to his failure to take the first prizes: he has to be content with the seconds. No Jewish composer has ever come within miles of Bach, Beethoven and Brahms; no Jew has ever challenged the top-flight painters of the world, and no Jewish scientist has ever equalled Newton, Darwin, Pasteur or Mendel. In the latter bracket such apparent exceptions as Ehrlich, Freud and Einstein are only apparent. Freud was nine-tenths quack, and there is sound reason for believing that even Einstein will not hold up: in the long run his curved space may be classed with the psychosomatic bumps of Gall and Spurzheim. But whether this inferiority of the Jew is real or only a delusion, it must be manifest that it is generally accepted. The Goy does not, in fact, believe that the Jew is better than the non-Jew; the most he will admit is that the Jew is smarter at achieving worldly success. But this he ascribes to sharp practices, not to superior abilities."

- H.L. Mencken, Minority Report

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You are a pistol. Mencken is a notorious anti-semite; no wonder he is at the top of your reading list. By the way, he wrote at a time when there were severe restrictions and quotas against Jews in the US, which did not fully go away until the 1960's. The elite in the US didn't want their elite institutions like Harvard and Yale overpopulated with Jews who were qualified to enter way greater than their numbers would predict, so they slapped on quotas.

[garro]

Good luck to you. I personally feel belonging to a group that excluded others would go against my own personal values. I am more interested in shared humanity.

Than why do you live amongst the Thais? A country that most clearly does not want to integrate Europeans into their citizenry, where we are tolerated at best? From the Jewish perspective, the groups that send missions around the world to brainwash the "souls" of the heathens are the offensive ones! Anyone who wishes can become a Jew. To so do you must make a concerted study of Judaism, It can take years. To be a born again Christian, all you have to do is take a bath. Both approaches are valid, but it is not fair to criticize Jews for not recruiting. Jews don't think their truth is for everyone, not that arrogant!!!

Who says I want to be integrated into any group. The Thai authorities have not asked me to leave, and I obey their laws.

I too have my reservations about missionaries and the fact that the Jewish faith doesn't do this is certainly a positive in my book. My dislike of some missionaries is probably a lot to do with my own personal prejudices, but I also believe that there are some real concerns.

I rely on the Buddha for a lot of my beliefs, but I do believe that as we develop spiritually we depend less on beliefs and opinions and hold on to them less tightly. I think the answer 'I don't know' is probably a sign of great spiritual advancement. Of course, I still have a long way to go in this.

I have noticed that there has been a few bigoted posts on this thread; some directed at Jews, Irish and such like. I think that the wise thing is to ignore this nonsense.

[mike_rad]

Actually the Chosen people is a myth perpertrated over many years as a way of justifying persecution.

The reality and the correct translation is the people who chose. According to the bible/torah/old testament God went to many peoples to ask them to follow him alone. Everyone wanted something for it. Finally he went to the Isrealites and they agreed to Gods terms.

And I'm sure many Jews would support that view. The problem, however, is the Jews and Jewish organizations that don't, and it just so happens that they're the ones with all (or most) of the clout.

You might like to look at Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel:

Rabbi Kook the Elder, the revered father of the messianic tendency of Jewish fundamentalism, said, “The difference between a Jewish soul and souls of non-Jews—all of them in all different levels—is greater and deeper than the difference between a human soul and the souls of cattle.” ...

Common to both the Talmud and Halacha, Orthodox religious law, is a differentiation between Jews and non-Jews. The late, highly revered Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, the “Lubovitcher Rebbe” who headed the Chabad movement and wielded great influence in Israel as well as in the U.S., explained that, “The difference between a Jewish and a non-Jewish person stems from the common expression: ‘Let us differentiate.’ Thus, we do not have a case of profound change in which a person is merely on a superior level. Rather, we have a case of ‘let us differentiate’ between totally different species. This is what needs to be said about the body: the body of a Jewish person is of a totally different quality from the body of [members] of all nations of the world…A non-Jew’s entire reality is only vanity. It is written, ‘And the strangers shall guard and feed your flocks’ (Isaiah 61:5). The entire creation [of a non-Jew] exists only for the sake of the Jews…”

Rabbi Schneerson always supported Israeli wars and opposed any retreat. In 1974 he strongly opposed the Israeli withdrawal from the Suez area. He promised Israel divine favors if it persisted in occupying the land. After his death, thousands of his Israeli followers played an important role in the election victory of Binyamin Netanyahu. Among the religious settlers in the occupied territories, the Chabad Hassids constitute one of the most extreme groups. Baruch Goldstein, the mass murderer of Palestinians, was one of them.

Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh, who wrote a chapter of a book in praise of Goldstein and what he did, is another member of this group. An immigrant to Israel from the U.S., Rabbi Ginsburgh speaks freely of Jews’ genetic-based, spiritual superiority over non-Jews. “If you saw two people drowning, a Jew and a non-Jew, the Torah says you save the Jewish life first,” Ginsburgh states. “If every simple cell in a Jewish body entails divinity, is a part of God, then every strand of DNA is part of God. Therefore, something is special about Jewish DNA…If a Jew needs a liver, can you take the liver of an innocent non-Jew passing by to save him? The Torah would probably permit that. Jewish life has an infinite value.”

Shahak and Mezvinsky point out that, “Changing the words ‘Jewish’ to ‘German’ or ‘Aryan’ and ‘non-Jewish’ to ‘Jewish’ turns the Ginsburgh position into the doctrine that made Auschwitz possible in the past. To a considerable extent the German Nazi success depended upon that ideology and upon its implications of being widely known early. Disregarding even on a limited scale the potential effects of messianic, Lubavitch and other ideologies could prove to be calamitous…The similarities between the Jewish political messianic trend and German Nazism are glaring. The Gentiles are for the messianists what the Jews were for the Nazis. The hatred of Western culture with its rational and democratic elements is common to both movements…The ideology…is both eschatological and messianic. It resembles in this respect prior Jewish religious doctrines as well as similar trends in Christianity and Islam. This ideology assumes the imminent coming of the Messiah and asserts that the Jews, aided by God, will thereafter triumph over the non-Jews and rule over them forever.” ...

It should not be forgotten that democracy and the rule of law were brought into Judaism from the outside. Before the advent of the modern state, Jewish communities were mostly ruled by rabbis who employed arbitrary and cruel methods as bad as those employed by totalitarian regimes. The dearest wish of the current Jewish fundamentalists is to restore this state of affairs

remember part of being Jewish is the requirement to do charitable works for non-jewish people.

See above: "If a Jew needs a liver, can you take the liver of an innocent non-Jew passing by to save him? The Torah would probably permit that. Jewish life has an infinite value.”

That's a charitable work?

In addition, the aforementioned Prof. Shahak, in his book Jewish History, Jewish Religion, relates:

(In) 1965-6 ... a protest which caused a considerable scandal at the time: I had personally witnessed an ultra-religious Jew refuse to allow his phone to be used on the Sabbath in order to call an ambulance for a non-Jew who happened to have collapsed in his Jerusalem neighbourhood. Instead of simply publishing the incident in the press, I asked for a meeting which is composed of rabbis nominated by the State of Israel. I asked them whether such behavior was consistent with their interpretation of the Jewish religion. They answered that the Jew in question had behaved correctly, indeed piously, and backed their statement by referring me to a passage in an authoritative compendium of Talmudic laws, written in this century. I reported the incident to the main Hebrew daily, Ha'aretz, whose publication of the story caused a media scandal.

The results of the scandal were, for me, rather negative. Neither the Israeli, nor the diaspora, rabbinical authorities ever reversed their ruling that a Jew should not violate the Sabbath in order to save the life of a Gentile. They added much sanctimonious twaddle to the effect that if the consequence of such an act puts Jews in danger, the violation of the Sabbath is permitted, for their sake. It became apparent to me, as drawing on Talmudic laws governing the relations between Jews and non-Jews, that neither Zionism, including its seemingly secular part, nor Israeli politics since the inception of the State of Israel, nor particularly the policies of the Jewish supporters of Israel in the diaspora, could be understood unless the deeper influence of those laws, and the worldview which they both create and express is taken into account. The actual policies Israel pursued after the Six Day War, and in particular the apartheid character of the Israeli regime in the Occupied Territories and the attitude of the majority of Jews to the issue of the rights of the Palestinians, even in the abstract, have merely strengthened this conviction.

[mike_rad]

You are a pistol. Mencken is a notorious anti-semite

Care to refute what he says instead of resorting to name calling?

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[bina]

guess u guys havent been to habad house lately for pesach huh???

i have been laughing out loud for the past few minutes with this thread..... as i crunch my matza and get ready for my and anon's nonkosher pesach meal of shrimp and matzo ball soup.... its great...

i have been a practicing buddhist long before i met anon (since i was about 14 yrs old) after attending midrasha (as a girl not a boy not too many of us; blessed with a kabbalistic name " bina' (google it..) ) ; dont believe in anyone or anything being responsible for me other then ME.... shit happens, i'm very 'jai yen' much more so then my thai ex monk husband... i try to do good, not harm others within reasonable possibility;

mike-rad, dear, please do cut out the bs..., u sound like a jew who hates jews in a self hate way. i'm jewish, living in israel, non religious, not particularly zionist, (ended up here more cause it seemed like a good idea at the time to marry my (ex) husband the kibbutznik.... too close to crazy religious types both muslem and jewish here in the holy city of j-town.... i am an agriculturalist and enjoy the holidays that coincide with harvests and plantings, wheat and milk, and honey and pomegranites... my budhist huband doesnt think he has a religioun, he is just budhist and thinks all religiouns herre are crazy (he could have a point, living here does that to u... cant eat bread in public for a week!!!! )

oh, i was sent to a liberal quaker high school, complete with silent worship daily...

but, genetically i am jewish (including some of thsoe yucky genetic ashkenazi genes for certain diseases)...

so what do i mark?.....

hey, jingthing, thanx for the speakout for us members of the tribe (i am levi, what/who are u?)....

chag sameach for those of u about to forego bread eating for a week and risk constipation... in our house we are choosing the 'oriental' line and therefore will also eat rice and legumes....

but i did find it wierd that judaism wasnt listed under muslem and christian sects... but bahai?!!! how many of u know bahai practictioners? apart from those in haifa?

bina

israel

[sgunn65]

You are a pistol. Mencken is a notorious anti-semite

Care to refute what he says instead of resorting to name calling?

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I will. Extremism in any form and from anywhere is repellent. I am as disgusted with fundementalist Jews claiming superiority as I am disgusted by your anti-semitism.

[mike_rad]

I will. Extremism in any form and from anywhere is repellent. I am as disgusted with fundementalist Jews claiming superiority as I am disgusted by your anti-semitism.

First things first. Before I respond to this, please answer the questions I directed to you above:

1) Are you aware that there were many Jews and Mischlinge (part-Jews) in the third Reich?

2) Why do you think Jewish bankers financed the Nazis?

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[way2muchcoffee]

Sometimes I am ashamed to be human.

[garro]

The problem with getting into discussion with racists, bigots and their ilk is that you sort of give them credibility by discussing their views. If they weren't criticizing one group they would be criticizing another one. So their is no real point in debate. They need to hate somebody and no amount of reason seems to persuade them.

[distortedlink]

To mike-rad and Jingthing;

As I said earlier several times, I wonder how long it is coming to take before these posts liven up with Christians Vs Jews and vice versa. They always go that way.

mike-rad has a knack of pointing jingthing to anti Jewish articles, which gives jingthing an opportunity to claim anti Semitism and how great the Jewish people are. It’s the same old story, nothing original, no logic in the argument whatsoever, boring and no ones interested.

You are both wind up merchants, luckily only to each over.

I would like to see people like you forced into a death match 2000 contest. At least that is entertaining and would certainly prove who’s superior. I shall have a word with some of my friends in Immigration and see if it can be arranged.

Not sure who I will put my money on, but mike-rad seems to be the most overpowering in these posts.

The problem is that wherever Farangs go in the world they also bring with them their social ailments such as racism and religious bias. These posts reflect this. Prejudice and the I am superior syndrome is especially prevalent amongst those of low intelligence.

This is why I believe it is not beneficial to third world countries to flood it with too many Farangs, that can destroy what they believe are lower cultures. The Christian missionaries are evidence of that and so are some of the many comments that turn up time after time on these threads.

[Jingthing]

For the record, I am not a fundamentalist Jew, in fact I despise all fundamentalists. I don't follow the Jewish religion or any religion at all. To characterize my points as Christian vs Jews conflict is a complete distortion. Anyway, the Jews being a small minority (largely because Jews do not recruit) will always lose such a "battle". I don't think the Jewish people are superior at all but it is natural for members of tribes to be protective and defensive of each other, why should Jewish tribe members be different or do you think like Mike that we are so different we don't act like other humans? I do love the cultural values of Jewishness, they are indeed very distinctive and some hateful people just don't like different. I don't think non-Jews have to love or not love Jewish culture or values; if you are curious to learn about them (I could learn more myself) I am sure you are welcome (but don't expect a formal invitation). Mike-rad is a neo Nazi and don't think his hate speech filth even belongs on this board.

[Ulysses G.]

You are a pistol. Mencken is a notorious anti-semite

Care to refute what he says instead of resorting to name calling?

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Calling someone a "pistol" is not name calling. It is more like saying that they are funny or unusual - a hoot - it can be a complement.

If he called you a Black-shirted son of a b_____, you might have some room to stand on, but considering the arguments and rhetoric that you are using and stereotypes that you are bringing up, probably not.

[mike_rad]

Mike-rad is a neo Nazi and don't think his hate speech filth even belongs on this board.

How dare you call me that for pointing out their hatred!

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[Ulysses G.]

For the record, I am not a fundamentalist Jew, in fact I despise all fundamentalists. I don't follow the Jewish religion or any religion at all. To characterize my points as Christian vs Jews conflict is a complete distortion. Anyway, the Jews being a small minority (largely because Jews do not recruit) will always lose such a "battle". I don't think the Jewish people are superior at all but it is natural for members of tribes to be protective and defensive of each other, why should Jewish tribe members be different or do you think like Mike that we are so different we don't act like other humans? I do love the cultural values of Jewishness, they are indeed very distinctive and some hateful people just don't like different. I don't think non-Jews have to love or not love Jewish culture or values; if you are curious to learn about them (I could learn more myself) I am sure you are welcome (but don't expect a formal invitation). Mike-rad is a neo Nazi and don't think his hate speech filth even belongs on this board.

I'm glad that there are people like Jingthing around who are brave enough to point out posters like Mike-rad for exactly what they are.

[mike_rad]

Calling someone a "pistol" is not name calling.

I wasn't talking about that. I was referring to him calling Mencken an anti-Semite.

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[garro]

I must admit though that I do dislike it when people use the word anti-semitic as if one sort of bigotry was more special than another. It is just regular common garden bigotry and racism. Nothing else.

[Ulysses G.]

Calling someone a "pistol" is not name calling.

I wasn't talking about that. I was referring to him calling Mencken an anti-Semite.

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I don't think that he would mind.

[mike_rad]

guess u guys havent been to habad house lately for pesach huh???

They don't let us Gentiles in there.

Seriously, an Aussie friend went in for a falafel, there was a "guard" on the door who started speaking in Hebrew. When Aussie Brian replied in English, he was told he was not welcome.

He thought there must have been a private function on, so he tried again a few weeks later. This time there was nobody on the door so he sat down and started reading the menu. A few minutes later, he was told to leave.

Brian said, why, I just want a falafel, this is a restaurant isn't it? There were no signs saying "Private No Entry".

Know what happened next? They called the cops. He was escorted out by two Israelis who grabbed his arm and by that time the cops were outside. He had to show his passport and when asked to explain himself, he said, I just wanted a falafel.

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[mike_rad]

I must admit though that I do dislike it when people use the word anti-semitic as if one sort of bigotry was more special than another. It is just regular common garden bigotry and racism. Nothing else.

How is it bigoted and racist to point out the bigotry and racism of one particular religion?

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[garro]

I must admit though that I do dislike it when people use the word anti-semitic as if one sort of bigotry was more special than another. It is just regular common garden bigotry and racism. Nothing else.

How is it bigoted and racist to point out the bigotry and racism of one particular religion?

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mike rad, I am sure that despite your bigoted comments there is probably a good bloke under there somewhere . I think that you have just picked up some strange ideas along the way. Now there are some places where you might get away with your arguments - among those who have a poor education and are looking for someone to hate. The problem is that many on ThaiVisa have had an education and, while I disagree with many of them frequently, are hard to fool. What you are doing is hate-mongering. You might not see it this way, but that is what it is. Nothing else.

[distortedlink]

guess u guys havent been to habad house lately for pesach huh???

They don't let us Gentiles in there.

Seriously, an Aussie friend went in for a falafel, there was a "guard" on the door who started speaking in Hebrew. When Aussie Brian replied in English, he was told he was not welcome.

He thought there must have been a private function on, so he tried again a few weeks later. This time there was nobody on the door so he sat down and started reading the menu. A few minutes later, he was told to leave.

Brian said, why, I just want a falafel, this is a restaurant isn't it? There were no signs saying "Private No Entry".

Know what happened next? They called the cops. He was escorted out by two Israelis who grabbed his arm and by that time the cops were outside. He had to show his passport and when asked to explain himself, he said, I just wanted a falafel.

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I don't believe you and what the bladdy hel_l is a falafel.

Wasn't it you who said that the holocaust is a joke in one of your posts?

It seems you are an aging non-entity who nobody wants to know, but has found a voice in these posts.

You have a chip on your shoulder and in serious need of professional help. I bet it`s you against the whole world, how sad.

Keep taking the green tablets, maybe they can help.

[mike_rad]

I will. Extremism in any form and from anywhere is repellent. I am as disgusted with fundementalist Jews claiming superiority as I am disgusted by your anti-semitism.

First things first. Before I respond to this, please answer the questions I directed to you above:

1) Are you aware that there were many Jews and Mischlinge (part-Jews) in the third Reich?

2) Why do you think Jewish bankers financed the Nazis?

While you're thinking about that, going back to what Mencken said, consider this:

Israel Shahak wrote in his book Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years,

"There is also a series of rules forbidding any expression of praise for Gentiles or for their deeds, except where such praise implies an even greater praise of Jews and things Jewish. This rule is still observed by Orthodox Jews. For example, the writer Agnon, when interviewed on the Israeli radio upon his return from Stockholm, where he received the Nobel Prize for literature, praised the Swedish Academy, but hastened to add: 'I am not forgetting that it is forbidden to praise Gentiles, but here there is a special reason for my praise' - that is, that they awarded the prize to a Jew."

- I. Shahak, Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years, Pluto Press, London, (1997/2002), p. 93.

The late Prof. Israel Shahak was an Israeli citizen who taught at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem.

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[Ulysses G.]

guess u guys havent been to habad house lately for pesach huh???

They don't let us Gentiles in there.

Know what happened next? They called the cops. He was escorted out by two Israelis who grabbed his arm and by that time the cops were outside.

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Did they make him take off his German, World War 2 helmet and armband off?

[mike_rad]

I don't believe you

I'm not lying. Perhaps Brian was but I doubt it.

and what the bladdy hel_l is a falafel.

I thought that was common knowledge.

Wasn't it you who said that the holocaust is a joke in one of your posts?

Where? I don't recall that at all.

I also blame those who take your bait, and encourage you to rant on further.

My "rants" are quotations from Jewish scripture and from scholars like Prof Israel Shahak, of the Hebrew University, Jerusalem.

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[mike_rad]

guess u guys havent been to habad house lately for pesach huh???

They don't let us Gentiles in there.

Know what happened next? They called the cops. He was escorted out by two Israelis who grabbed his arm and by that time the cops were outside.

----

Did they make him take off his German, World War 2 helmet and armband off?

Very funny. He had just come from class - he's an English teacher.

Don't believe it? - try it for yourself.

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[Jingthing]

he said, I just wanted a falafel.

Wow! That must be some special falafel. I hope to try to get some of it sometime. Of course, I don't sprechen the Hebrew but maybe if I drop my pants and show them my juicy elegantly cut Yiddische schlong I can get a taste of such heavenly fried manna.

BTW, your story must surely be total BS or this guy acted in an offensive, threatening way.

Very funny. He had just come from class - he's an English teacher.

Don't believe it? - try it for yourself.

Members only? Maybe not a public restaurant at all. Anyone know the facts?

Regarding Mencken, he wrote many anti-semitic things, but he also wrote many bad things about many groups, including Americans in general (what we might call an equal opportunity hater, but of course these were pre-PC times). He also voiced early warnings about the Nazis, so I guess it is fair to call him a very mixed bag, and a product of his time as well. He was also a great writer and wouldn't let his strange views put anyone off reading him.

[distortedlink]

All this aggression and slagging each other off. For the first time in my life, I have really started to enjoy the excitment of religion, I am seeing the light. Much more entertaining than watching TV.

Keep em coming, keep em coming.

[astral]

Why do you want to know?

Religion should be a private matter for the individual,

not to be paraded or rammed down others throats.